Story Discussion: Jan. 18, 2009 "Trapped" by MistressLynn

[_Lynn_]

"Trapped"

 

[_Lynn_]

This piece has many 'firsts' in it for me.

1. At writing from the perspective of someone that thought they were dead. I tried to put myself into their place each time.
   
2. Switching scenes and changing from one person to another to keep the right time sequence.
   
3. Leaving hints but not giving things away.

My goal was to make it all fit together in the end ... to have all the questions that came up during the story answered at the end somehow.

How did I do?

 

[DeeZire]

A caveat: Because I have a short and waning attention span, I generally don't read stories longer than three pages. While reading yours, I skimmed the early exposition about Trey and the girlfriend, since it didn't seem to be integral to the plot. Actually, I skimmed a lot of the exposition and the details of the procedures in the hospital, since, again, they didn't seem to be moving the plot forward.

The good side of this was the fact that the plot was compelling. I really wanted to find out what happened - first waiting impatiently for the rescues, then waiting for the Willie dude to get caught, and finally, hoping for the redemption of Andrea. The fact that your story captivated me emotionally puts it a notch above the usual fare.

The only specific that caught my eye was the timeline aspect between when Willie left to see Sparky and when he actually showed up at Sparky's house. It seemed to skip back in time a bit. (That's what I get for being a lazy reader, I suppose.)

I did like the fact that you kept the contents of the box a mystery for so long. That really helped to ratchet up the tension, which in turn created a nice payoff.

I would have gotten more out of the reading experience with half the word count, but I'm a fan of economical writing, so it's probably more a personal preference than a valid critique. The fact remains, it was a compelling story, the kind of story I'll probably still be thinking about a few days from now. This is what I look for in reading material, so thanks!

 

[_Lynn_]

A caveat: Because I have a short and waning attention span, I generally don't read stories longer than three pages. While reading yours, I skimmed the early exposition about Trey and the girlfriend, since it didn't seem to be integral to the plot. Actually, I skimmed a lot of the exposition and the details of the procedures in the hospital, since, again, they didn't seem to be moving the plot forward.The scenes in the hospital weren't a part of the main plot always. They were more for tension, is he going to live, isn't he, the closeness of the firemen waiting, etc. There was the question then yet of why he'd gone into the building.This makes me think though so thank you.

The good side of this was the fact that the plot was compelling. I really wanted to find out what happened - first waiting impatiently for the rescues, then waiting for the Willie dude to get caught, and finally, hoping for the redemption of Andrea. The fact that your story captivated me emotionally puts it a notch above the usual fare.Thank you very much.

The only specific that caught my eye was the timeline aspect between when Willie left to see Sparky and when he actually showed up at Sparky's house. It seemed to skip back in time a bit. (That's what I get for being a lazy reader, I suppose.) I'll have to go back and look at this and see where I messed it up.

I did like the fact that you kept the contents of the box a mystery for so long. That really helped to ratchet up the tension, which in turn created a nice payoff. I wanted to make it believable without struggling for something at the last minute to toss into the story. So I came up with the idea in the beginning for the contents.

I would have gotten more out of the reading experience with half the word count, but I'm a fan of economical writing, so it's probably more a personal preference than a valid critique. The fact remains, it was a compelling story, the kind of story I'll probably still be thinking about a few days from now. This is what I look for in reading material, so thanks!

It was a bit long, yes. I worried about that myself. There wasn't any way to cut it into chapters that I felt worked right. I took the chance and left it as one larger piece.

Thank you for all your comments. I appreciate that you took the time to read it, especially since it was longer than you prefer.
If you're thinking of this in a few days yet, then I didn't do too bad.

 

[Pure]

note,

mistress lynn,

thanks for the volunteering. may i suggest that you give readers a smaller assigned section to concentrate on? for example the beginning. then let some bold souls have a choice to do the whole story?

can you specify a section of say 3000 words, and perhaps specify some questions you want us to answer?

again, i appreciate your offering us a story.

 

[_Lynn_]

mistress lynn,

thanks for the volunteering. may i suggest that you give readers a smaller assigned section to concentrate on? for example the beginning. then let some bold souls have a choice to do the whole story?

can you specify a section of say 3000 words, and perhaps specify some questions you want us to answer?

again, i appreciate your offering us a story.

All right, I'll have to find a section and think up some questions.


There isn't any really good place to just break this piece. So I guess read the first page since that's about 3000 words.

As for questions ... What I mentioned above would still pertain to that little bit.

 

[Keroin]

Hi MistressLynn,

First, thank you for your story. This is my first critique here, I will try to be constructive but honest.

Since I only read the first page, I can't comment on how well you managed writing from the perspective of someone who thinks they're dead. Sorry.

The time line was easy to follow and I didn't have any problems with switching from one POV to another. Well done. My only comment is that you have four POV's in the first 3000 words, which seems a bit much, especially for a short-ish story. I would like to see the focus stay on each character longer. Don't confuse movement with action.

As for leaving hints, I assume the contents of the container are revealed further along. This is my own personal bias but I like my mysteries a little more subtly presented. Also, if I knew what was in the container, I might feel a higher sense of urgency in the scene. Or, perhaps give me a better hint at what might be in the container.

You have a plot that moves along fairly well, (as far as I've read), and have broken up the exposition so it's not too overwhelming. I still think this story can be tightened, (chopped, sorry!), quite a bit. As an example:

"Don't go any further!" Todd picked his way through the debris and sloppy mess left behind by the intense gallons of water. Sweat poured off his body under the weight of his gear. Somewhere the thought registered that this young woman must be an athlete from the way she maneuvered around the obstacles with such ease. He didn't realize at the time that her sheer determination carried her on.

I would cut the last sentence. The reader already knows that she is being spurred on by determination and by presenting Todd's thoughts we know he doesn't realize this. So the last sentence is redundant. Anyway, that's just a suggestion. If you want more specific examples, I'll be happy to PM.

At this point, I feel only mildly engaged but I think trimming and editing will help with that. Lots of potential, keep at it!

If you want more, let me know. Hope this was helpful.

 

[_Lynn_]

Hi MistressLynn,

First, thank you for your story. This is my first critique here, I will try to be constructive but honest.

Since I only read the first page, I can't comment on how well you managed writing from the perspective of someone who thinks they're dead. Sorry.

The time line was easy to follow and I didn't have any problems with switching from one POV to another. Well done. My only comment is that you have four POV's in the first 3000 words, which seems a bit much, especially for a short-ish story. I would like to see the focus stay on each character longer. Don't confuse movement with action.

As for leaving hints, I assume the contents of the container are revealed further along. This is my own personal bias but I like my mysteries a little more subtly presented. Also, if I knew what was in the container, I might feel a higher sense of urgency in the scene. Or, perhaps give me a better hint at what might be in the container.

You have a plot that moves along fairly well, (as far as I've read), and have broken up the exposition so it's not too overwhelming. I still think this story can be tightened, (chopped, sorry!), quite a bit. As an example:

"Don't go any further!" Todd picked his way through the debris and sloppy mess left behind by the intense gallons of water. Sweat poured off his body under the weight of his gear. Somewhere the thought registered that this young woman must be an athlete from the way she maneuvered around the obstacles with such ease. He didn't realize at the time that her sheer determination carried her on.

I would cut the last sentence. The reader already knows that she is being spurred on by determination and by presenting Todd's thoughts we know he doesn't realize this. So the last sentence is redundant. Anyway, that's just a suggestion. If you want more specific examples, I'll be happy to PM.

At this point, I feel only mildly engaged but I think trimming and editing will help with that. Lots of potential, keep at it!

If you want more, let me know. Hope this was helpful.

Yeah, having to cut the critique to a specific part makes it very difficult to tell what's happening in this story, in my opinion. I wouldn't have put it here had I known this.


Not telling what was is in the container was deliberate on my part. The contents are key to many factors in the story. If I told what was in there, it would be over right then. The reader would figure everything out and the rest would be useless.

I appreciate your comments and will keep them in mind in the future. Any examples you provide would be helpful, if you have time. PM me with anything else you have.

Thank you very much.

 

[Keroin]

No, I think any critique, even of a small part of a story, is beneficial. If you were to think of some more questions, (I'm sure you have more), that could be applied to just the first 3000 words, (the first 250 being the most important of your story, always), then I think you might get a lot more out of this.

I will be happy to PM you this evening, for now I have a busy day ahead.

Also, I realize that you were holding back the contents of the container on purpose, that's not the point I was making. I think that if the reader were given a few more clues - even if those clues led them to believe the contents were something completely different than what they really are - then they might feel that your protagonist has more at stake. Keep the stakes as high as you can. Tension, tension, tension!

Cheers,
K

 

[_Lynn_]

No, I think any critique, even of a small part of a story, is beneficial. If you were to think of some more questions, (I'm sure you have more), that could be applied to just the first 3000 words, (the first 250 being the most important of your story, always), then I think you might get a lot more out of this.

I will be happy to PM you this evening, for now I have a busy day ahead.

Also, I realize that you were holding back the contents of the container on purpose, that's not the point I was making. I think that if the reader were given a few more clues - even if those clues led them to believe the contents were something completely different than what they really are - then they might feel that your protagonist has more at stake. Keep the stakes as high as you can. Tension, tension, tension!

Cheers,
K

I agree that any critique is beneficial and I appreciate yours.

This is the first time I tried anything with 'tension' or 'clues'. It didn't occur to me to give false clues but that's something I'll keep in mind for the future. The story began as a simple piece with a firefighter and somehow evolved into this.

Questions for the first page: (Just making up a couple here for you)

1. Do the characters actions come across right?
2. Were you able to picture the scene from the way I described it.
   

Again, I thank you for you comments.

 

[Keroin]

Hi ML,

Happy to help. I did mean to PM you but yesterday was crazier than anticipated and today is heading in the same direction. However, I have a quick break so I'll answer your two questions.

1. Do the characters' actions come across right?

I assume you're asking if they're believable? At this point, honestly, not really. This can be remedied but you need to set a few things up. First, I know quite a few firefighters and the chances of someone slipping past them in this kind of situation are unlikely. So, give me a reason why this might happen - something distracts Todd and Andrea takes advantage of the moment to get past him, as an example.

Also, without knowing or having a reasonable guess as to the contents of the container then I have a hard time buying that anyone would risk their life by running into an unstable building. Fire inspires respect in even the bravest of sorts. Now, if you'd told me that it was her laptop inside, and I knew, for instance, that she was a writer, I might think, "Oh man, she might have a 400 page manuscript in there! Go! Run! Save it now!" Even if it turned out that the laptop was really an empty shell and what was inside was the gun she'd used to kill her ex husband with (yikes!) and she couldn't risk someone finding it - a mystery best saved for the end - at least in the moment I feel she has a reasonable motivation for risking her life. (Well, reasonable for me, LOL).

As it stands, I think this woman is foolish for endangering her life and the lives of others to retrieve what I think is just a piece of memorabilia and Todd is not very good at his job. Do you see what I mean? Your characters can do the most ridiculous things as long as the motivations for their actions are strongly presented and believable.

2. Were you able to picture the scene from the way I described it?

For the most part, yes, very clearly. In fact, I would say that is the strongest part of what I read. Geographically I was able to follow along. The scene was very clear. The only comment I'd make is that you might want to include more specific details in parts. Here's an example:

"Her pant leg caught on something and stopped her progress back to where he waited in anger and trepidation."

Tell us what, exactly, she caught her pant leg on. This object could be a telling detail and could illustrate the scope of the damage. "Her pant leg caught on a charred piece of wood Andrea recognized as the last fragment of her dining room table." - OK, lame example but you get the idea. Make it specific, make it personal.

Otherwise, I didn't have a problem with visualizing the scene or the action.

But the passage I referenced above just made me think of something else. Show don't tell. Very important. Don't tell me that Todd was waiting in anger and trepidation, show me he is waiting in anger and trepidation. Does he have his arms folded across his chest and a scowl on his face? Is he tapping his feet? Biting his lip? Convey your characters' emotions through their actions.

Oh dear, time is up, must run! Promise I will PM at some point.

Hope this is helpful.

K

 

[manyeyedhydra]

Hi, phew, finally found some time to read it.

I can see what you mean about the difficulty in picking a specific part. Unfortunately I think the length might have scared off a few people.

I thought it opened with a good bang. The girl rushing in, the firefighter rushing after her and the house collapsing was all very exciting. After then it seemed to lose a lot of the momentum. Even when the skullduggery of the landlord came to light it seemed like the main characters weren't really centre stage for taking him down.

I think Keroin's comments on Andrea are interesting. If you only look at the first page Andrea doesn't come out of it good at all. She seems like a foolish girl whose actions nearly get herself and a firefighter killed. It's only as the story develops her actions make sense. I thought that was really good. The mystery box was handled really well.

I also had a problem with multiple POV's. There are a lot of characters for a short story. I found it difficult to keep track of who was who as they didn't really stand out enough.

The biggest flaw for me were the little paragraphs of exposition at the beginning of each POV shift to introduce the new characters. I can see they're there to keep it from getting really confusing, but for me they acted like giant speedbumps. I wanted to get more into the story and they kept bouncing me out into skim mode.

I hope i haven't come across as too critical. I liked the action-packed opening and the significance of the box. It lost a bit too much pace after the first page though.

 

[_Lynn_]

Hi, phew, finally found some time to read it.

I can see what you mean about the difficulty in picking a specific part. Unfortunately I think the length might have scared off a few people.

I thought it opened with a good bang. The girl rushing in, the firefighter rushing after her and the house collapsing was all very exciting. After then it seemed to lose a lot of the momentum. Even when the skullduggery of the landlord came to light it seemed like the main characters weren't really centre stage for taking him down.

I think Keroin's comments on Andrea are interesting. If you only look at the first page Andrea doesn't come out of it good at all. She seems like a foolish girl whose actions nearly get herself and a firefighter killed. It's only as the story develops her actions make sense. I thought that was really good. The mystery box was handled really well.

I also had a problem with multiple POV's. There are a lot of characters for a short story. I found it difficult to keep track of who was who as they didn't really stand out enough.

The biggest flaw for me were the little paragraphs of exposition at the beginning of each POV shift to introduce the new characters. I can see they're there to keep it from getting really confusing, but for me they acted like giant speedbumps. I wanted to get more into the story and they kept bouncing me out into skim mode.

I hope i haven't come across as too critical. I liked the action-packed opening and the significance of the box. It lost a bit too much pace after the first page though.

This was supposed to be about a firefighter. Before I even started writing, the container came to me. Then I just sat down each day and let the story come out around it.

I struggled with how to define those little paragraphs better. At one point, I had them blended together. That was confusing as well. I have wondered if that could be eliminated if the piece was longer/shorter.

It's so different from anything I've written before that I really had no idea how to do it. Each time I thought it was done, one of the characters did something in my head that went in there.

It's long, yes and you are far from too critical. Neither was Keroin. If I wanted only good comments, I wouldn't have put it here, right?

I appreciate that you took the time to read and critique it for me. I'm not sure that I'm ready to venture into another story similar to this one, but when I do, I will have more knowledge to do it with. Thank you very much.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I read the first page, and thought the story was good overall, but I thought it was very long and wordy, and with my short attention span, I got terribly impatient.

You have a habit of using the same type of Subject-predicate sentence structure over and over again until it becomes noticeable, so that a passage like this:

Her pant leg caught on something and stopped her progress back to where he waited in anger and trepidation. Her hands shook as she worked the container loose and stood up to face him. Todd shoved her ahead of him a few feet at a time back through her apartment and into the hallway. Worry masked the exhaustion on his face.

Andrea noticed the sounds this time. Water trickled down what was left of walls and dripped from the ceiling. Piles of boards and belongings hissed from the heat buried within. Voices from outside echoed as if in a far away canister. Her legs buckled at the sheer destruction the fire had left behind. An odd haze of smoke and steam clouded the air to fill her lungs as she tried to breathe.

Starts to read like:

Her pant leg caught.. Her hands shook... Todd shoved... Worry masked...

Andrea noticed... Water trickled... Piles of boards and belongings hissed... Voices from outside echoed... Her legs buckled... An odd haze of smoke and steam clouded...

It begins to give a certain stiffness to the prose that works against the sense of action you want to convey.

You can fix that by varying the sentence structure, using more compound sentences or starting sentences with dependent clauses, (As the piles of boards hissed from the heat buried within, voices from outside... etc.)

On the other hand, your imagery was very good and your eye for detail is excellent. Your description of the fire scene was wonderfully vivid, and you could just about smell the smoke and steam.

In a scene like this, though, where you want to maintain a high level of action, I'm a little concerned about so much description and getting inside the characters head to describe their feelings rather than staying outside with the external action. The description and exposition kind of slows things down and gets in the way. My own technique for a scene like this is to do what you've done and load all the exposition in the front few paragraphs, but then lose the description and switch to action -- to story instead of exposition.

There's three types of writing in fiction: story, which describes action, (what we call "showing"); exposition, which is description and explanation ("telling"); and dialog. I think you'd be better served in this scene by cutting out some of the exposition and concentrating more on the bones of the story. It would be sharper and more focused, hook us more quickly, and the scene would be more exciting.

You do a great job with Todd and Andrea being trapped in the fire, and then, with the paragraph starting:

Andrea felt the crushing weight of debris above her and thought she was going to die.

We get a little too much inside their heads and things slow down. We really don't need to be told what she's thinking. We can figure out what a girl trapped in a burning building is thinking. It seems like it takes forever to get Todd out of that building too. I don't see why it should take more than a paragraph or two, really.

In conclusion, I'd say that what I've read is very good, but it's a bit overwritten for my tastes. I'm a notoriously impatient reader, though, so maybe you shouldn't go by my judgment. But I would take a blue pencil to this piece and cut it down by half. I think it would be a smoother (and faster) read.

--Zoot

Edited to add: Having read the other comments now: Concerning the little sections, having only read the first page (I'm embarrassed), I can't say how they'd work overall, but I did find it irritating to have the action interrupted by the introduction of other characters and their backstories. I don't think it's your fault though. It's a technique I've seen used a lot, and you use it as well as anyone. I just don't care for it. I like straight-ahead story.

I'll try and find time to read the rest of this and report back.

 

[_Lynn_]

When I began writing two years ago, I used too many compound sentences. I find myself on the opposite end of that spectrum now.

I used to assume that people could get from A to C without B on their own. At the time, other authors told me that I left too many gaps. Each new story then had more details as I kept that in mind. It's obvious that I need to find that middle ground.

I see what you mean about Andrea's thoughts. That fits in with my giving too much information now.

So if I don't give a 'backstory', how do I incorporate anything from their past when it fits the plot, such as Andrea's did.

Yeah, the breaks weren't my favorite either, but I didn't know how to do it any other way.

More to keep in mind for future writing. Thank you very much, Dr. M.

 

[Keroin]

When I began writing two years ago, I used too many compound sentences. I find myself on the opposite end of that spectrum now.

I used to assume that people could get from A to C without B on their own. At the time, other authors told me that I left too many gaps. Each new story then had more details as I kept that in mind. It's obvious that I need to find that middle ground.

I see what you mean about Andrea's thoughts. That fits in with my giving too much information now.

So if I don't give a 'backstory', how do I incorporate anything from their past when it fits the plot, such as Andrea's did.

Yeah, the breaks weren't my favorite either, but I didn't know how to do it any other way.

Here's something I like to keep in mind when constructing sentences in my fiction. Picture the sentence as a table. The Queen sits at the beginning, all the riff raff sit in the middle, and the King sits at the end. "Something wicked comes this way" or "Something wicked this way comes"? Which sounds better. Have fun, play with your structure. Style and voice take time.

I was also going to mention something about the backstory and getting into characters heads in the middle of an action scene but I've been accused of being a harsh critic so I'm trying to tone it down. LOL. Back story is tricky. Unless it's essential, I leave it out and when I put it in I try to find the most subtle and creative way I can to get the information to my reader.

Another helpful trick is to read your story out loud and record it. When you play it back and listen, you'll be amazed at how quickly you pick up on the parts that are too cumbersome or simply aren't working.

Have you read "On Writing" by Stephen King? Even if you hate King's work, I think this book is a must read for every aspiring writer. (And I'm sure it's been suggested on this forum a bazillion times already but I haven't been around that long).

But I agree with Dr Mabeuse, you have great imagery and set up the location very well.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

A possible way to get round the back story problem is to try and slip the information in as offhand little tidbits of dialogue. The story keeps flowing and the reader absorbs the relevant information as the story goes along rather than being hit by big chunks that are hard to swallow.

It's not the easiest thing though - especially when the characters stubbornly refuse to allow the conversation to go where you want it to

 

[_Lynn_]

A possible way to get round the back story problem is to try and slip the information in as offhand little tidbits of dialogue. The story keeps flowing and the reader absorbs the relevant information as the story goes along rather than being hit by big chunks that are hard to swallow.

It's not the easiest thing though - especially when the characters stubbornly refuse to allow the conversation to go where you want it to

Very true. Some characters have attitude, you know?

I happened to be reading one of the first stories I ever wrote this afternoon. It wasn't even 1,000 words, more of a scene than anything else. There is much for me to learn, but I know I've come far in a short time.

There's a rolodex in my brain. I'm filing all these pieces of information in there to use when I begin another story.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I'm going to get this story read and commented on within the next couple of days. I meant to have already done so but sometimes real life (as in ice storms) get in the way. I'll come back and edit this one once I've read it.

In the meantime, since it's been almost a week since a new post has been made, I'm going to go ahead and give hydra to green light to start his discussion.


EDITED TO ADD COMMENTS:

Okay, I did read the entire story. I think the story could have been cut down and still kept the concept of what you were attempting to tell. There were places where you added back story (Derrick's relationship with Todd) that interrupted the flow.

I saw quite a few instances of telling instead of showing (for example, Todd's mother saying something "with determination").

All of the switching around got a bit confusing. Personally, the sections from Willie's point of view were not really needed. Most of that information could have easily come from other characters.

Overall, you have a good story with much potential to be a great story. Description set the scenes well and Andrea running into the building for the box kept me wanting to read more to find out what was so important that she was willing to risk her life for it.

 

[_Lynn_]

I'm going to get this story read and commented on within the next couple of days. I meant to have already done so but sometimes real life (as in ice storms) get in the way. I'll come back and edit this one once I've read it.

In the meantime, since it's been almost a week since a new post has been made, I'm going to go ahead and give hydra to green light to start his discussion.

Thanks Crim. That's works for me.



I appreciate all the comments I received here.

Hopefully, I can incorporate their suggestions into future work and continue to improve.

Thank you everyone for your time.