Story Discussion from Grassroots: Slicknhb

[Pure]

Again, because KM is tied up, we shall proceed with this story, by slicknhb

The link to the story is
====
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=129625

Title: Breast Pump Blues
Genre: Lesbian
Brief discription: She falls for lonely lactating woman next door.

Perhaps 'slick' will add to this thread any specific questions. Else consider those general ones posted for Karen:

Is it a good story (narrative)?
(=Is there a lack of utter predictability)
Is it original in some way? (or original variation on classic plot and theme),
Is it 'hot'?
Is there any depth of character.

It's also relevant to consider what slick might have been trying to accomplish. A question I'd have, is, Would female readers be 'reached' by this story, or is it mainly fantasy 'lesbian' story for males.

 

[Lying Eyes]

Some questions, ignore that last PM Pure...

Does the dialog seem natural?

Should I have been more specific with the discription of the characters such as with the clothing?

What I was trying to do was make the story erotic, passionate and touching, do you think I acomplished this?

Since I recieved very positive feedback, I have submited myself to requests and will create a second chapter so any thoughts and criticism may help me in my second attempt at a story with the same characters and similar situation. I don't mind harsh criticism, I cant improve without knowing what I did wrong.

 

[Pure]

Hi slick, just some intro comments. As a hot quick read it seems to work; it has the basics of a story line.

While there's some realism of detail, its pornographic intent(core) is pretty clear. I believe the speed of the start of action** is clear 'fantasy mode'; though quickies do happen, you've not given the reader any reason for thinking it would.

As to dialogue:
"Sweetie, my poor breasts are so full of milk and they need to be suckled. Won't you please give me some relief and nurse on my neglected nipples?"

A bit too much consonance at the end; the amount of porn/graphic detail makes it sound stilted to me.

J.

**noted by several in your public comment area

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

slick,

A very good first effort. Here are some of my thoughts. My stuff is in CAPS to distinguish it from your writing. Please remember, all of this is just my humble opinion. And in my opinion, there’s no absolute right or wrong with fiction except to not bore the reader.

If you’ve got any comments, concerns, or condemnations just post them here and I’ll try to give you some song-and-dance bullshit reply, I mean, a logical response.

Rumple Foreskin

--

--usage

IMHO, YOU OVER USE “I” IN THE FIRST PERSON SINGULAR. SO DOES JUST ABOUT EVERYONE WHEN THEY BEGIN WRITING IN FIRST PERSON. YOU MIGHT TRY TO IMAGINE YOU’RE TELLING THE READER WHAT’S GOING ON, NOT JUST WHAT THE POV CHARACTER IS DOING, SEEING, ETC. FIRST PERSON PRIVATE EYE NOVELS BY WRITERS LIKE RAYMOND CHANDLER AND DASHELL HAMMITT, EVEN MICKEY SPILLANE, ARE GREAT EXAMPLES.)

--'What a long day,' I thought as I waited for the old elevator to slowly rise to the floor of my apartment. I was relieved my shift was finally over. It was a mad house at the sports bar today, much busier than usual. Of course, as my luck would have it, we were also under staffed. My feet were killing me from running around and waiting tables. I sighed as my thoughts drifted back to last year when I was still in college without a care in the world. I pulled off the scrunchie holding back my dark hair and a few strands carelessly went down into the top of my white shirt. 114 words – 6 “I”

--The elevator stopped and opened its doors as I shuffled out. My loose-fitting black skirt swayed as I rushed out towards my apartment. I was glad that I was almost home. Soon, I could relax, take off my shoes and soak in a long bubble bath. What the heck, I was going to treat myself and eat some of the chocolate I had hoarded. Screw my figure. I was skinny enough as it was anyway. I stood by the door of my apartment and I pulled the keys from my purse. 91 words - 10 “I”

(IF MY ADDITION IS SEMI-CORRECT, YOU USED 215 WORDS IN YOUR FIRST TWO PARAGRAPHS. 16 OF THEM WERE “I” IN THE FIRST PERSON SINGULAR. IMHO, THAT’S A HIGH PERCENTAGE)

--dialogue

--I could feel her breath on my forehead and in that instant the energy from my legs seemed to disappear and I buckled. Noticing my unsteady legs, her thin light red eyebrow raised, she smiled warmly and remarked, (OMIT “and remarked.) "Relax Jill, sit down on the sofa and get comfortable."

--"Thanks, I really needed that. Yeah, I just came from my job as a waitress at the sports bar downtown. It was a busy day, and to make matters worse, a couple of the customers were harassing me while I was trying to do my job. These guys kept on hitting on me." The honest truth; I needed the drink because I didn't understand the strange effect she was having on me. (IMHO, THAT LAST PARAGRAPH SOUNDS SUSPICIOUSLY LIKE AN INFO DUMP. HERE’S ONE OF MANY POSSIBLE ALTERNATIVES. “Yeah, I just got off. I waitress at a sports bar and today was unreal. We were short-handed, super busy, and these two creeps kept hitting on me.”)

--She giggled and said, "Well Jill, (PEOPLE SELDOM USE EACH OTHER’S NAMES IN CONVERSATION, UNLESS THEY’RE SPORTSCASTERS. THIS IS THE SECOND TIME SHE’S DONE THAT.) you can't really blame them, a pretty young girl like you I bet has plenty of men drooling over." I blushed and admitted I was flattered such a stunning woman thought I was pretty. (IMHO, AWKWARD AND CONFUSING)

--IN DIALOGUE, CONTRACTIONS ARE VERY COMMON. AT ONE POINT, CLAIRE SAYS, “I'm new in town; I have been living in Denver for the past year. It's good to be out of there. It holds some sad memories." SOME FOLKS PROBABLY SPEAK THAT FORMALLY, EVEN IN CASUAL CONVERSATION. BUT ODDS ARE SHE’D BE MORE LIKELY TO SAY SOMETHING LIKE, “I'M NEW IN TOWN. I WAS IN DENVER FOR A YEAR.”

--punctuation

--JUST FYI. IN MODERN FICTION, SEMI-COLONS ARE A VANISHING PUNCTUATION MARK. HELL, IN SOME BOOKS, IT SEEMS LIKE ALL PUNCTUATION MARKS ARE VANISHING. THE SEMI-COLON IS STILL USED A LOT IN NON-FICTION AND SOMETIMES IT’S INDISPENSABLE IN FICTION, BUT THE TREND IS AWAY FROM ITS USE.

--TO QUOTE STEPHEN KING, “ADVERBS ARE NOT A WRITERS FRIEND." YOU HAVE A LOT OF “LY” ADVERBS. MOST WRITERS TRY TO KEEP THEM TO A MINIMUM. IF YOU USE MS WORD, A QUICK SEARCH WILL HELP YOU SPORT THEM.

--story

--THERE WERE A COUPLE OF HOLES IN THE STORY THAT GOT MY ATTENTION. IT’D HAVE BEEN NICE TO KNOW WHY THE HUSBAND DIED. BUT THE ITEM THAT STOPPED ME WAS WHY CLAIRE HADN’T GOTTEN THE SHOT THAT WOULD HAVE DRIED HER UP. IT’S BEEN AROUND FOR DECADES. THE ANSWER COULD HAVE BEEN AS SIMPLE AS HER BEING ALLERGIC TO THE DRUG.

Hope some of that is of some help, at least sometimes.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Lying Eyes]

Thank you Pure.
Your comments on the speed of the start of the action or seduction rushed as some of the feedback mentioned is justified. At the time I was not sure how to get from the point that Claire cries to the point that Jill offers to "help" her. Now looking back I have a few ideas and could of written alot to fix this major flaw.
Your correct that line of dialogue does not sound right.


Thank you Rumple Foreskin, some comments on what you mentioned.

IMHO, YOU OVER USE “I” IN THE FIRST PERSON SINGULAR. IF MY ADDITION IS SEMI-CORRECT, YOU USED 215 WORDS IN YOUR FIRST TWO PARAGRAPHS.

Yikes! I didn't realize I went that overboard with "I" in my story. This is going to be hard for me to avoid.

(IMHO, THAT LAST PARAGRAPH SOUNDS SUSPICIOUSLY LIKE AN INFO DUMP. HERE’S ONE OF MANY POSSIBLE ALTERNATIVES. “Yeah, I just got off. I waitress at a sports bar and today was unreal. We were short-handed, super busy, and these two creeps kept hitting on me.”)

Your right that does sound much better.

--She giggled and said, "Well Jill, (PEOPLE SELDOM USE EACH OTHER’S NAMES IN CONVERSATION, UNLESS THEY’RE SPORTSCASTERS. THIS IS THE SECOND TIME SHE’S DONE THAT.)

Thank god you told me this! The story I'm working on right now I went nuts mentioning names in dialog.

you can't really blame them, a pretty young girl like you I bet has plenty of men drooling over." I blushed and admitted I was flattered such a stunning woman thought I was pretty. (IMHO, AWKWARD AND CONFUSING)

Would this have been better?
"Your such a pretty girl so you have to expect that some guys will drool over the sight of you." I blushed as I was flattered that such a stunning woman said that I was pretty.

--IN DIALOGUE, CONTRACTIONS ARE VERY COMMON. AT ONE POINT, CLAIRE SAYS, “I'm new in town; I have been living in Denver for the past year. It's good to be out of there. It holds some sad memories." SOME FOLKS PROBABLY SPEAK THAT FORMALLY, EVEN IN CASUAL CONVERSATION. BUT ODDS ARE SHE’D BE MORE LIKELY TO SAY SOMETHING LIKE, “I'M NEW IN TOWN. I WAS IN DENVER FOR A YEAR.”

Actually the reason why I made her dialogue formal was that I was trying to show that she was older then Jill without mentioning age. But I guess a their are simpler ways of doing this.

--JUST FYI. IN MODERN FICTION, SEMI-COLONS ARE A VANISHING PUNCTUATION MARK.

Actualy in my original draft I had no semi-colons, in fact I'm an idiot and don't know how to use them. That was the work of my volunteer editor.

--TO QUOTE STEPHEN KING, “ADVERBS ARE NOT A WRITERS FRIEND." YOU HAVE A LOT OF “LY” ADVERBS. MOST WRITERS TRY TO KEEP THEM TO A MINIMUM. IF YOU USE MS WORD, A QUICK SEARCH WILL HELP YOU SPORT THEM.

I will keep that in mind, I may get MS Word in the future so that would be a nifty feature to use.

--THERE WERE A COUPLE OF HOLES IN THE STORY THAT GOT MY ATTENTION. IT’D HAVE BEEN NICE TO KNOW WHY THE HUSBAND DIED.

Right, I could of mentioned some kind of illness and mentioned her drowning in debt from medical bills which would explain the situation with her daughter. BUT the thing is I recieved some comments from one reader who said the story LOST its erotic value to him because he felt sad for Claire. I don't want to depress readers with my writing, if I had dwelled on the husbands death I may have ended up making more readers turned off by the story.

BUT THE ITEM THAT STOPPED ME WAS WHY CLAIRE HADN’T GOTTEN THE SHOT THAT WOULD HAVE DRIED HER UP. IT’S BEEN AROUND FOR DECADES. THE ANSWER COULD HAVE BEEN AS SIMPLE AS HER BEING ALLERGIC TO THE DRUG.

I knew about this but I never figured ut how to fit it in the story. Being ALLERGIC seems so obvious, I should of thought of that.


Alot of helpful comments. Thank you again Rumple Foreskin, your very intelligent.

 

[Pure]

Hi Slick,

There are two excellent lactation stories I know of. The first is by a published writer, somewhat mainstream. The second is by a very talented amateur and I find it well done and quite hot.

You might look at the methods they use to convey the experience, and describe the events.

Both are told from the lactators pov.

Lactating Lesbian Lady, by Tawny T
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=239

A Milk Filled Mom, by Scentof1Woman
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=5650

====
PS. If we leave aside the speed at which milky things start, there is still the speed of subsequent action. It seems like a couple mins from sucking to getting fingered, and I'd think a lady you've shown as pretty straight would not get into that so quickly, without hesitation.

 

[damppanties]

slick,

Rumple has done a nice job on the story already so I'll be brief here. I'll just answer your questions.

Does the dialog seem natural?

Yes, the dialogue was pretty okay, though a bit stiff in places. You explained that by saying that you wanted Claire to appear older. Whatever you write in the way of dialogue, I recommend that you speak it out to yourself. With the inflections, pauses and everything, like you're talking to a real person. If it sounds stiff to your ears, it probably is. I find that this helps me.

Should I have been more specific with the discription of the characters such as with the clothing?

Well, no. I liked the descriptions you did and they were just right. Blended into the story and flowed smoothly, didn't stand out anywhere. You didn't go overboard with it. You're good with that.

What I was trying to do was make the story erotic, passionate and touching, do you think I acomplished this?

Yes, it was erotic. It was passionate. But IMO, it fell a little short of touching. I would have liked you to spend more time on how the characters were feeling. Especially in these two paragraphs -

Her grief made my heart break, so I pleaded, "Please don't cry Claire." I could not bear to see her in this state of anguish. As the words formed in my head, I was in disbelief as to what I was about to say. Maybe it was the alcohol talking, but I whispered, "I could help you... and take the place of your child."

The look on her face was priceless; it was as if a ray of sunlight had penetrated through the dark clouds. She gave me a big smile and asked, "You'd do that for me, Sweetie?" I timidly nodded my head as she sat down next to me brushing off the tears from her rosy cheeks. "Are you sure?"

Somehow, it felt a little unreal and went too fast for me. If someone suggests such a thing for the first time to any person, there might be doubt or some sort of hesitation, maybe for a minute or two. Jill was speaking under the influence of the wine, as you hinted, but I felt Claire's acceptance was too quick.

It was a big step for those two and it would have been a little better to spend a little more time there.

It's also relevant to consider what slick might have been trying to accomplish. A question I'd have, is, Would female readers be 'reached' by this story, or is it mainly fantasy 'lesbian' story for males.

Hey Pure, who said fantasy lesbian stories were only for males?

This was the first lactation story I read on the site (because I'm not particularly attracted to the stuff) and I really liked it. I guess that's a point in slick's favour.

Good luck with the next chapter.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

You picked a tough story to tell. Not only is lactation a kind of fringe activity, but apparently this is also Jill’s first lesbian experience, and to top it off, it’s with a woman she’s just met, so she goes from being a straight, frazzled waitress at the start to an enthusiastic breast-sucking lesbian lover at the end. That’s enough personal change for a novel, let alone a first-time story. I congratulate you on pulling it off so well, but if the story was a weakness, it’s just that: Jill takes these rather extreme changes in herself too easily, and that robs the story of any sort of realism.

If all you care about is the erotic payoff of the nursing, then what leads up to it doesn’t really matter much. But if you’re looking to create a story with more realism and depth, I think you need to deal with Jill’s own reactions to what she’s feeling and doing more than you do. Her reaction to Claire is basically one of “Wow! What a babe!” I’m not entirely sure what attracts one woman to another, especially when neither of them is gay to start with, but I kind of think there’s more to it than what you give us. You mention a couple of times that Jill is confused or doesn’t believe what she’s feeling towards Claire, but I have to think that suddenly being so strongly attracted to a member of your sex—and one you’ve just now laid eyes on--would set off some pretty strong confused emotions. I know it’s only porn, but still, it seemed very contrived and artificial to me, and because of that it lacked any emotion beyond the sexual heat.

I also felt like you were really rushing through the meeting scene; that you wanted to get to the sex and so had to dispense with all the back story and motivation stuff as quickly and efficiently as you could. The scene in Claire’s apartment is not really thought out in any detail: Here’s my story, here’s some wine, let’s play. I know how that goes. I’ve written scenes like that myself. It really helps, though, if you go through it carefully in your mind and see what they’re doing. You should think about how much of the background information you can covey in this scene while they’re getting to know each other. That way the scene works for you. For instance, think of what we could have learned about Claire had we seen her unpacking things and putting them away: a picture of her child, maybe, that moves Claire to tears. Or how is Claire looking at Jill? Is she coming on to her sexually? Flirting?

Anyhow, that’s my main criticism, that these two women basically jump into the sack together too quickly and easily. It needs explaining. Looks just aren’t enough.

As for the writing and dialogue: I think the dialogue needs work. I think Rumple already mentioned the lack of contractions (“I’ve been…” for “I have been…” etc.) during speech, and other nuances. The writing itself relied too much on simple declarative sentences. “I did this…She did that…” Check out this excerpt:

I pulled a small mirror from my purse to check my appearance. I adjusted my dark hair and looked at my lips. I puckered my lips to make sure my red lipstick was properly applied. I put it away, tossed the purse on the floor and slipped my feet out of my well-worn shoes.

I’m not real big on the nursing fetish myself, so the story didn’t do that much for me in terms of arousal. I thought that the sex other than the nursing was pretty vague and sketchy.

There was a lot that was good in the story. You’ve got a good eye for detail. I would have liked to see you spend less time inside your characters’ heads and more on the action outside.

As I said, it was a difficult story to tell, and you carried it off nicely, especially for a first attempt.

---dr.M.

 

[Pure]

Hi damp,

I said,
It's also relevant to consider what slick might have been trying to accomplish. A question I'd have, is, Would female readers be 'reached' by this story, or is it mainly fantasy 'lesbian' story for males.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DP replied.
"Hey Pure, who said fantasy lesbian stories were only for males? "

====

What I was thinking of is the 'lesbian' scenes in mainstream porn movies, esp. Note the scare quotes here and above. These are male-concocted scenes where big titted babes 'do' each other as males imagine they do.

Of course there are fine genuine lesbian fantasy stories, esp. by those who've tasted the fruit.

 

[Omni]

I see after reading your story there are a lot of enthusiastically good comments about it. It seems you hit a well-received niche there. The only over all comment on your public feedback, besides it being a great story, was the pace. It is hard to tell with the anonymous comments, but I think any diversity of comments that you get are between male verses female readers and readers who find this particular sexual prospect titillating.

To me your writing form is decent. You do not switch tenses, you switch paragraphs right, and do not write convoluted sentences. I can tell this was a man’s writing portraying women with certain word choices and dialog. But, I do not think that matters to your fans of this sexual theme.

Words such as:
(What a beautiful figure of womanhood she was.)
Men think womanhood, women think feminine or female etc.
(having my lips attached to this mammary was like heaven to me.)
Mammary the same way. That is more a guy word.
(tall redhead bombshell.)
Same here with bombshell

("Are you warm, Dear?)
I know you said you were trying to portray her being older, but the dear here caught me as granny.

You ask is your dialog natural? I think it could use some work, it is a little stilted.

You asked if you need more clothes descriptions. I do not think so.

I will agree with Rumple, you over use “I” I hesitate to say here because your readers seem to like this short style, lean style, and one dimensional piece. But, I think you could build on this, fill it out. Slow the transition pace from first meeting to and through the beginning of the sexual encounter by bulking it up to one more Lit page. It would help the suspension of belief that say within 10 minutes of first meeting each other these two, always before, straight women could leap into a lesbian encounter with no other emotions than just doing it like pro's.


Omni

 

[Lying Eyes]

Pure wrote,

There are two excellent lactation stories I know of.

Lactating Lesbian Lady, by Tawny T
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=239

A Milk Filled Mom, by Scentof1Woman
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=5650

It seems like a couple mins from sucking to getting fingered, and I'd think a lady you've shown as pretty straight would not get into that so quickly, without hesitation.

I'm familiar with Tawny T's work. She has many well written stories. It's a real pity she no longer shares her talent with Literotica's readers.

I thank you Pure for the second link since I had not read that piece. Though their are a few things I didn't like about that work like the mention of her "36-26-36" figure and bra size "36D to a" I really don't like such specific notes. I prefer the reader to use their imagination an see what they want to see with more vague terms. Also the "We both took all our clothes off" line made me roll my eyes, couldnt the writer be a bit more detailed? And people thought I was in a rush...

As for the sucking to getting fingered seeming out of place well originaly I wasnt going to have any sex at all. It was only going to be about nursing but I figured readers might be pissed off at me so the story developed into a more sexual story which I didn't pull off well enough to seem natural enough that Claire moved it in that direction.

damppanties wrote,

Whatever you write in the way of dialogue, I recommend you speak it out to yourself.

I try to do this, though the walls are thin in my apartment. Neighors might look at me funny next time if they manage to overhear me

I liked the descriptions you did an they are just right.

Thank you, I'm a little paranoid when describing women and their clothes since I think I may have screwed something up that would be so obvious for a woman to see but not me since I'm a man.

But IMO, it fell short of touching

Noted, I could of done allot more to make it so. I'm working on a more conventional lesbian story now that I am trying to make it seem somewhat tender. Hopefully I succeed this time and on the second chapter for Breast Pump Blues.

...but I felt Claire's acceptance was too quick

Looking back I could of attempted to fix this but failed to do so.

This was the first lactation story I read on the site (because I'm not particularly attraced to the stuff) and I really liked it

That is a huge compliment, to reach those that normaly would read this subject matter is one thing but those that don't originaly seem intrested is another. You just stroked my ego.

Last note concerning damppanties, I read your exellent article "Cure for Writer's Block" and would recomend any writer to take a look at her piece if your stalled in writing.

dr_mabeuse wrote

You picked a tough story to tell

Since their are so many new stories being sent in to Literotica I wanted something that stuck out of the crowd for my first piece.

Anyhow, that's my main criticism, that these two woman basically jump into the sack together too quickly and easily. It needs explaining.

Noted, I tried to fix this major flaw in my second story that built up more slowly and in a more crediable way. I like your idea of the picture of the child.

I thought that the sex other than the nursing was pretty vague and sketchy

I will try to work on it better next time.

As I said, it was a difficult story to tell, and you carried it off nicely, especially for a first attempt.

Thank you for the kind words.

Omni wrote,

I see after reading your story there are a lot of enthusiastically good comments about it. It seems you hit a well-recieved niche there.

Even more positive reactions via private emails. Looks like I hit a sweet spot for some readers.

Men think womanhood, woman think feminine

Mammary the same way

Same here with bombshell

Actually I used the term "feminine form" in the story also with womanhood. I tried to use the word womanhood to convey almost a figure of a well developed mother, didn't seem to work in your case.

Well I tried to avoid using crude terms like tits (did use it once in Claire's dialogue), juggs, hooters or other similiar types of words. I used breast so many times and already written bosom so I was left with mammary which kind of sounded a little cheesy but is sort of a medical term so I kept it in.

Your right about bombshell, I should of used something else.

but the dear caught me as granny

Yikes! I didn't want her to seem that old!

over use "I"

That's going to be tough for me to deal with since I prefer to write in first person and I really am a lowly amateur at this since I haven't written anything in so many years and don't even remember the last piece of fiction I wrote.

Slow the transition pace from first meeting to and through the beginning of the sexual encounter by bulking it up to one more Lit page.

I don't think I'm going to have problems with beefing up the plot anymore since my second piece is almost double the size of Breast Pump Blues and my third story that I'm currently working on is definatly also much larger despite that the characters unlike Jill and claire are not strangers. The only concern with this is I fear I'm losing some readers who are in a bigger rush then I'm in to getting to the "juicy" parts and don't care why the characters are acting a certain way.

Thank you for your comments Omni, I apreciate that you shared your thoughts about my story with me.

 

[Netzach]

One way to make this more emotionally believeable, to me, (even with the usual having to suspend disbelief in porn) might be to put Claire in a slightly less virginal light. It seems possible to me that she might be a little more forceful, a little more the seductress.


"Oh no, it broke, what will we do? " Or"you broke it, how are you planning to make that up to me?" wink wink...

basically my imagination still has to stretch a bit...but not as far as it does to think that this first time heretofore straight femme is going to suggest sucking lactating tit out of the blue.

 

[Lying Eyes]

Or"you broke it, how are you planning to make that up to me?" wink wink...

Actually you kind of read my mind. When I get around to writing the second chapter I was planning on having Jill confessing to Claire that she was the cause for the broken pump which I should of had her admit in this story. And made Claire like you said seem more experienced sexualy then I made her out to be.

Thank you Nezach for your comments.


A big thank you again to all those that gave me their thoughts and ideas, I very much apreciate those that put the time to read my story and comment. It has helped this lowly amateur still trying to figure out this writing thing.

Now I suggest those intrested to take a look at angela's story.