Story Discussion: dr_mabeuse, main queue12-1-05

dr_mabeuse

seduce the mind
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Posts
11,528
This is the opening for a story I'm working on. Thankfully, it's not that long. I'll meet you with questions at the bottom.

---------------------------------

The Arrangement



Natalia quickly finished her tea and put her cup in the sink, then cast a glance over her shoulder at the kitchen clock: 6:45 PM. Ina should be here any minute.

She washed out the cup and spoon and saucer and gave them a quick dry, then cleaned out the sink with the sponge, her ear cocked for the sound of Ina’s horn. She didn’t want to leave the place a mess for Stephen to find when he got in. It was his home after all, and even though they got along famously, she’d still only been boarding here for a little over a month,. She still felt like she was on probation, and so she treated the place like it was her own.

It probably hadn’t been a good idea to stop home after her stint at Vael & Dennison. Normally she would have taken the bus right to the bookstore, but Ina had the car tonight and Natalia had really wanted to change her shoes and grab something to eat. That fact that Stephen had a date tonight and she wanted to see what he looked like before he left really had nothing to do with it. She’d missed him anyhow, and she didn’t even seem to care, which made her feel better. That told her that she really had just been curious. Jealousy had nothing to do with it.

She swept the table for stray crumbs from her toast and jelly, shook the towel out in the sink, then folded it and hung it over the rack. She untied the silly apron and folded it over the towel, then smoothed her gray wool skirt down over her thighs. She straightened the sugar bowl on the table and spruced up the little bunch of violets Stephen had brought home yesterday, and there was Ina’s old Ford honking outside.

November in Chicago was dark enough for her to use the kitchen window as a mirror, and she checked her hair and lipstick and wondered again whether that was really the face of a sales girl rather than of the professional psychologist she’d been back home, Associate Director of the Krakow Psychiatric Hospital Number Four. There was no use thinking about that now, or the worthlessness of her credentials in her new country, so she turned off the lights and headed down to the hall closet for her coat. It wouldn’t do to dwell on the past. She’d known exactly what she was getting herself into when she’d come over here last year, and giving into regret was the surest way to lose your grip on this precarious life. She knew. She’d seen it happen to others. It wouldn’t happen to her.

She slipped on her coat and fluffed her hair over the collar, buttoned it up and threw a scarf around her neck. She picked up her purse and opened the door, and there was Ina, lounging with extravagant insouciance against the wall, a sly smile on her thin lips. Her hair was cut short and dyed a bright, unnatural black to hide the gray. It didn’t look good on a woman of her years.

“Surprise!” she said. “No work tonight.”

“What are you talking about?”

Ina held out her cell phone and flipped it open like a Police badge. “Didn’t you get the message? The idiots are still doing inventory, so Remner has the day people working the night shift. Seniority, you know. You and me and the rest of the night crew are out on our asses. Want to go get drunk with me?”

“No one told me.”

“You don’t have a cell phone. You really should get one, you know. Thirty dollars a month won’t kill you. Can I come in?”

Because Ina had been here for almost five years now, she considered herself an expert on the ins and outs of American life and Natalia’s thriftiness was a constant source of amusement to her, all the more so since Ina’s husband had recently informed her that he had decided to stay in Poland and that he had no desire to emigrate. Ina took the news better than most, her only reaction being to take all the money she'd saved up and spend as recklessly and selfishly as she could, just for spite. Hence the dye job and the large gold earrings and the knee-length leather coat, that in Natalia's opinion really didn't look that good on Ina’s short and stocky frame.

Natalia stepped back from the door. “Yes, of course. Come in. I’m sorry.”

“Is he here?” Ina stepped into the room glancing around.

“No, he went out.” Realizing she was being unduly familiar, she corrected herself. “You mean Mr. Karnow? No.”

Ina laughed. “You can save the act, Talia. I know how it goes. Now what’s happening between you two? Any progress?”

Natalia made a face as she hung her coat up. “Yes, he’s asked me to be his sex slave and bear his love child. Would you like to see the dungeon where he keeps his other women?”

“Go ahead, joke.”

Natalia laughed. “Come on back. I’ll make us some tea.”

“Tea? No wine? No brandy?”

“Tea.”

Ina followed her back to the kitchen, her eyes shrewdly appraising the furniture and pictures on the wall as they walked through the darkened house.

“You laugh, but Lizabeta still has her net out for your Mr. Karnow. He's professional, single, he does all right, and he needs someone. You shouldn’t think you’re too good for him either Talia, not when he’s interested. You’re still a catch. Didn’t he take you out to dinner last week?”

“Yes, and it was a lovely time. We discussed his latest girlfriend.” Natalia turned on the kitchen light, put the kettle in the sink and started running water. “I told you, Ina, we’re just friends. He’s a very nice man but old enough to be my father. And besides….”

"I know," Ina interrupted. "You're engaged."

Natalia looked at her and Ina shrugged it off.

“No offence, Talia, but your Petros is probably fucking his ass off right now with some Krakow whore. There’s no wedding ring made that can stretch across the ocean, and that goes double for an engagement band, which I see you still haven’t even received.”

Natalia felt the bare spot on her third finger as she set the kettle on the burner.

“When Petros comes over, he’ll give it to me.”

Ina rolled her eyes. “The day Petros comes over will be the day I find engagement rings growing out of my ass.”

Natalia looked at her and Ina retreated. “All right, all right. You’ll be happily married and living in a mansion with children and I’ll still be selling books. Petros will get rich installing windows, I know it.”

Ina sat down at the table and Natalia got a cup from the pantry for her. She took her own cup and saucer out of the dish rack and put them on the table. There was no sense in dirtying a clean cup. She got down the tea and put a bag in each cup.

“You heard about your neighbor’s boarder? The Bonkowski girl?”

Natalia shook her head and Ina wiggled her bottom on the chair in anticipation. “She ran off with that Spanish mechanic. That boy with the tattoos and the loud car.”

“Gina? Gina Bonkowski? You’re joking!”

“I wish I were. She took all her things. Didn’t leave anything behind but a note.”

Natalia was shocked. She knew the young lady. She’d come over from Gdansk some years before and was taking courses so she could enroll in medical school. She knew the people Gina boarded with too—the Bauers, an older couple and childless, lovely people, but perhaps too old to keep tabs on an energetic young woman like Gina.

The kettle began to sing and Natalia poured boiling water into both cups. “I don’t believe it! How could that be? She had such a brilliant future before her.”

Ina smiled wickedly. “I tell you, it’s a different world over here, Talia. Everyone fucks everyone and no one thinks twice about it. I hear stories like this every day, every day.”

“But to throw away her future! And the Bauers? They loved her like a daughter.”

“A daughter can’t break your heart? And besides, what did she owe them? They were paid. Just like your Mr. Karnow gets paid. You pay him and the Polish Alliance pays them. They do just fine off us.”

“Well of course they get paid. We’re staying in their homes.”

“And sometimes they get paid in more than money too, eh?” Ina stirred her tea and sucked the spoon, waiting for Natalia’s reaction.

“Forget it Ina. I’m not fucking him, if that’s what you want to hear.”

Ina shrugged. “It’s none of my business if you were, but it wouldn’t be the first time a girl slept with her sponsor. Wouldn’t be anywhere near the first time. It often works out quite well, and what’s the harm?”

Natalia set down a saucer for the used tea bags and sat down at the table.

“I have a very good arrangement here and I’m not going to screw it up, Ina. Stephen is a very nice man and we’ve developed a real friendship, and I just thank God I found this place after that nightmare at the Pelowskis—three people in a room and only one bathroom. He charges me very little rent and all I have to do is keep the place neat, and at last I have some real peace and privacy. Things are good just as they are"

Ina smiled, gratified at the show of emotion. "Natalia, you may be fooling yourself but you're not fooling me. You could live anywhere you wanted. You don't have to board. Liza told me she offered you your own room in her place with Marta and you turned them down."

"Why should I live with a bunch of women? I like it here. Milk?"

"Yes, you like it here. With a man." Ina smiled and pushed her cup forward. “No milk, but I’ll take some brandy. If we’re not working tonight I’m going to go out to the White Eagle. Want to come?”

“No. That’s the last thing I want. And there is no brandy.”

Ina made a sound of disbelief. “Then vodka. Or wine. You’re not going to tell me you don’t have your own liquor?”

Natalia shook her head and Ina laughed in disbelief.

“Every girl has a bottle or two around, Talia, so don’t give me that. I know what it’s like when you’re too tired to sleep at night and toss and turn and think about home and your man. Believe me, I know.”

Natalia stared at her for a moment and saw that Ina wasn’t going to back down.

“There’s scotch.”

Ina laughed in triumph. “There! See? I knew it. Scotch will do. I'm not fussy."

Natalia got up and went to her room and came back with the half-empty bottle of Grant’s. She put it on the table and Ina poured a healthy slug in her cup, tasted it, and sighed in approval.

“Believe me, Talia, I’ve been over here five years now. I’ve seen them come and go and I know all the tricks, all the angles. You think your Mr. Karnow is so nice and such a friend, but you’re a fool if you don’t take what you can get out of it. You’re a good looking woman and still young—long legs, skinny like men like, nice ass—but no one’s going to give you anything just because of your looks. Your sponsor’s a man, and all men are alike. You want to stay on his good side, you think about what I’m saying. He doesn’t have you living here just to wash the floors and make tea.”

Ina took a good gulp of her drink and smacked her lips. “Now,” she smiled, “Show me your bedroom and I'll bet I can find where he’s drilled his peepholes in your walls.”

* * *

After Ina left, Natalia put the cups in sink. She showered and put on her pajamas and robe and made some canned soup and crackers for dinner, then went into the living room with a book. The change in her routine left her restless and uncertain.

She poured herself a glass of wine (Ina had been more right than she knew) and drank it, and had just sat down with another when the door opened. It was ten o’clock.

“Hi,” Stephen said sheepishly. “I thought you’d be at work.”

“No. They didn’t want us tonight. But what happened with you? I thought you were seeing Vanessa tonight.”

“Jessica,” he corrected. “Yes. I did. She didn’t want to go to the movies though. She had other plans, and she…uh…she works fast.” He gave her an embarrassed grin.

Natalia laughed. “You poor man. Seduced again?”

He laughed off his embarrassment, but his pleasure at seeing her was genuine, and his happiness made her smile. The women he saw took shameless advantage of him, and she didn't know why he put up with them.

He hung his coat up and asked, “Is there any dinner left? I’m starved.”

“Oh? I didn't cook. I just had some soup.”

“You didn’t eat the fish?” he sounded concerned. “I brought it just for you.”

“I wasn’t very hungry. I thought I’d make it for dinner tomorrow.”

“Why don’t you do it now?” he asked. “Or were you going to bed?”

“No,” she smiled. “No, I’m not tired at all.”

“Good. I'll help. I could use some company.”

He opened a bottle of his wine and Natalia cooked as he sat at the table and they talked. On other nights, she might sit and he would cook, but these late-night kitchen sessions had become a regular routine and, she realized now, had taken on an air of comfortable domesticity that she especially enjoyed. They worked well together and fell easily and naturally into complimentary roles with hardly a word being spoken. She cooked, he sliced. She made the noodles, he set the table. It was effortless and automatic.

Still, she thought as she drank her wine, there can’t be anything wrong with that. That’s what friends do, and if it hadn’t been for Ina, she would probably have never noticed the way they operated as a couple as if by default. She wondered if it showed to other people too, if Ina had noticed, or if people commented on them when they went out. She wondered if people already thought they were sleeping together.

She told him about the Bonkowski girl as they ate and he was as shocked as she'd been. His innocent inquiry as to whether she’d heard from Petros lately caught her by surprise, but she managed to keep the smile on her face and only her ears grew warm as she just said “no” with appropriate casualness. She hid her face in her wine. He told her about his problems with Mrs. Kranski and she was suitably sympathetic.

It was always the same. The women were aggressive—widows mostly, that he met through his charitable work with the Polish Alliance—and Stephen's bachelor defenses were no match for their schemes. The best—like Vanessa tonight—were really only interested in sex; the worst had their hooks out for him and fed him and mothered him and inserted themselves into his life in ways that sometimes made Natalia get involved in his defense. She looked out for him like a big sister.

He was telling her now about Vanessa's habit of groping him in public.

“Then why do you go out with her if you don’t like her?” she asked.

He was at the sink, struggling with the second bottle of wine. He looked up at her. “Come on, Natalia. Why do men go out with women they don’t especially like?”

“But Stephen, you’re not like that. Are you?”

He pulled the cork and winced. It had broken and a piece had fallen into the bottle.

“Don’t give me so much credit,” he said, filling her glass. “I’m really not looking for a long term relationship any more. In fact, that’s the last thing I want. I just some companionship and human warmth.” He filled his own glass. “You know what I mean?”

She laughed. “Human warmth? If that means what I think it does, it’s an expression I’ve never heard before.”

He smiled grimly. “It does. The three-letter word with the x on the end.”

Natalia smiled and shook her head.

He looked up at her and got defensive. “What? You asked me and I told you. I’m not going to deny it, and I’m always upfront about it. I just wish it didn't always have to be so damned complicated. I mean, I’m not lying to these women or leading them on. They know exactly what’s what. That’s the one good thing about being my age. You can be upfront about things. You don’t have time to screw around like when you’re younger.”

"And so sitting through Mrs. Nodell's pierogi is how a smooth operator works? Really, Stephen, you're like dough in their hands."

He made a sour face and took a big gulp of his wine, drinking it like water and rocking his chair back on its rear legs.

“It’s silly, sex is, I mean," he said. "Really, it’s just like every so often you have to release some pressure, that’s all.” He laughed. “They should make a machine. I’d buy one.”

Natalia chose to ignore this last statement. She leaned her elbow on the table and put her chin in her hand. “And what’s so wrong with a long term relationship? Does that scare you?”

He made a face. “I’m an old bachelor, Natalia. It’s too late for me to change my ways. I like my freedom.”

She sighed and stood up, took the plates and carried them to the sink. An idea came to her then, a foolish idea, but she said nothing.

Stephen stood up and, mistaking her silence for concern over his woman problems, said, “It’s not so bad. In the end they get what they want and I get what I want, I suppose, so it’s not so bad. It’s just part of the price of being male. Every so often you need to release some steam.”

She wished he wouldn't use those mechanical analogies. They bothered her.

"You should come to me next time," she said. She heard herself say it.

She could hear his stunned silence.

She turned around and faced him. The words were out now and she owuldn't bak down. “Seriously. I live here, I take care of your house, I have no social life of my own. Why shouldn’t we? I mean, we're adults. You do find me attractive enough? Or do I flatter myself?”

“Attractive? Of course I find you attractive, but Natalia…”

“But what? We’re not children giggling behind our hands about sex. We’re good friends. Why shouldn’t we? It’s not like we’re going to fall in love or any of that nonsense. If we keep emotions entirely out of this, why can’t we?”

“But what about Petros?”

“What about him?”

She stared at him, her face blank, saying nothing, and he understood enough to look away. Petros was a third of a world away in space, and who knew how much in emotion. Natalia turned back to the sink and started washing dishes again. She was embarrassed now and her discomfort made her stubborn.

“In any case, it’s just a suggestion," she said. "I just hate to see you so unhappy with these women. After all, I’m right here. I have something you need, and I don’t happen to be using it myself right now…”

He laughed uncertainly. “You’re serious?”

She wasn’t so sure now, but she could hardly withdraw her offer. She smiled. “I wouldn’t joke, Stephen.”

He came over and picked up a towel and started to dry the dishes.

“It does make a weird kind of sense,” he said. “No one would get hurt, we wouldn’t get involved emotionally… You’re sure you’re serious?”

She laughed and looked at him. “You men have to make such a big deal out of it. It’s all so simple really, isn’t it? I mean, when you stop to think about it?”

Stephen thought about it. He dried a glass and placed it in the rack.

“Yes. Yes, I suppose it is.”

* * *

(End of Excerpt)

=====================

(I know. The opening sucks. It;'s that same line-of-action followed by exposition I was just railing against in the character introduction thread.)

I guess I should tell you what this is about.

These two people think they can have a sexual relationship without feeling or affection or jeopardizing the relationship they have now. Why not? they figure. They're intelligent people, mature, and sex is relatively simple.

They make all these rules about no kissing, no shows of affection, no touching except for the genitals, and silliness like that, and of course, it doesn't work at all. They develop deep feelings for each other.

What I'm going to concentrate on is the perverse eroticism of having to repress your feelings of affection and emotion during sex and try and make it a matter of friction only.

My questions have to do with whether you believe she might make the offer she does. Does her motivation come across as understandable and believable? Does his?

If not, why not?

Also, any general comments would be appreciated, as always.

Thanks in advance for your help.

--Zoot
 
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dr_mabeuse said:
(I know. The opening sucks. It;'s that same line-of-action followed by exposition I was just railing against in the character introduction thread.)

<snip)

My questions have to do with whether you believe she might make the offer she does. Does her motivation come across as understandable and believable? Does his?

If not, why not?

Also, any general comments would be appreciated, as always.

Thanks in advance for your help.

--Zoot

I don't think the opening sucked. Just because its a common formula doesn't mean its bad, especilly when well done.

Does the offer seem believable? YES very very believable.
As for her motivation, it comes off as she is not being honest at all with herself about her motivation. She is comfortable. She 'clicks' with the man in many ways, some ways which newlyweds fuss over for years until they get a working relationship. The kitchen cooking scene they almost seem to clicktoo much for the amount of time they've been under the same roof.

His motivation though, I wouldn't say NOT believable just we don't know him well enough from the excerpt I think to really gage his motivation.

OK now off into random Alex comments.

How important is her friend? Is the friend a majorly re-occuring character? I find myself thinking she is because she is introduced so early in the story and in such depth. I'm part thinking her major purpose is imparting information though, but with her intro being before his really, it just seems like I feel she is going to be really important. Like I already have emotional investment in her.

Another thing that was kinda bothering me, but feel free to totally blow this off. Her comfort level with his comfort level taking what appears to be the lead role in making dinner. It just seems like a yes this is america men do this stuff type of moment. Wow could that have been less clear, but depending on how long she'd been in the US and all *shrug*

The characterization as always is wonderful, and all the standard stuff :)

Hmm

I guess if I have a problem with the 'arrangement' it would be he doesn't seem to NEED anyone. he is Very independent it seems. But maybe showing signs of him enjoying someone in the house. Like if he had lent her a favorite book and they ended up discussing it or something. I don't know, I think I was just looking for a sign of them connecting over something else on the level of the kitchen prep scene.

~Alex
 
I know. The opening sucks. It;'s that same line-of-action followed by exposition I was just railing against in the character introduction thread
Yeah. There might be a little of that. :) I assumed it was just your first draft and that you'd be cleaning it up. Even in a rough state the conversation between the two women has some delicious crispness, such as this little gem: "Why should I live with a bunch of women? I like it here. Milk?"

I thought the theme was clear when I read this exchange:
~
"It does make a weird kind of sense," he said. "No one would get hurt, we wouldn't get involved emotionally... You're sure you're serious?"

She laughed and looked at him. "You men have to make such a big deal out of it. It's all so simple really, isn't it? I mean, when you stop to think about it?"
~

Regarding the main question: I was shocked by Talia's sudden offer. That doesn't make it bad, but I'm unsure why she's decided to make a play for Stephen at this point. She has plenty of reasons, four I can think of off the top of my head- but I've no clue which one or combination made her apparently change her mind in such an abrupt fashion. It's far from unbelievable, but not understanding what she's feeling I'd have a hard time empathizing with her.
 
Hi Zoot, the conversations are very real and believable.

Just a tinsey bit too much detail in the middle for me - because by then I think you've conveyed what you needed to convey, and can maybe start to ease up.

Very subtle - eg not offering Ina the good stuff - I like this!

The proposal - not enough build up for me. I didn't get the sense of "why is he going to other women when I'm here?" but still rather "I don't want to screw this arrangement up".

Natalia seemed in denial up until Ina's comments got her thinking (?). I find it difficult to believe pesky Ina hadn't been harping on about Natalia and her sponsor for a while. Living vicariously and all that :D

I really like the element of him being at the mercy of demanding women from Natalia's point of view, and that he expresses he has needs - it's a 2 way street between consenting adults.

Maybe, even if only to herself, she admits she has needs too. Even if she does the martyr act for him (ie I'm here and I'm not using those parts), I would like it if she was at least a little bit honest with herself.

If I were Stephen, I would put out the question "would you tell your fiance?" just to test the waters and see how much she had thought about it. But then again, there is a strong argument against doing that.

Great work, keep going! :rose:
 
You do a nice job introducing Ina, the somewhat bitter, seemingly well-meaning, slightly tacky know-it-all.

For some reason—maybe because they're going to be more complex, I don't feel like I'm getting as good a handle on Natalia and Stephen.

Natalia's proposition threw me, not because I couldn't imagine her getting into a physical relationship with Stephen, but because the way in which the offer comes up seems so odd. I think I get her motivations—she can't trust in the relationship she has with her long-distance could-be fiancé, she genuinely likes Stephen and is even attracted to him (though she seems unsure of the nature of her attraction). I also get that she doesn't want to be like all the other women who are 'taking advantage' of Stephen. So she's being direct, upfront, rather than seducing him with pierogi or by groping him. I don't know—it's almost as if she's seeing the sexual services she might provide as just expanding on her domestic duties, and maybe that's an emotionally safe way for her to instigate a physical relationship with this man she's attracted to (and who has just insisted that he's unwilling to give up the freedom associated with his bachelor status). That's an interesting idea for exploration, and could even be tied in, amusingly, with her psych background. But even though I can rationally piece together her motivation, it doesn't come across as believable to me, as written. Actually, the most plausible motivation that would go along with the way she goes about suggesting this, would be if she's concerned that Ina's right, and she needs to do something like this to stay in Stephen's good graces, and keep what for her is an advantageous living situation. If that's a key motivation at this point, I'd need to see her dwelling on this a tad more after Ina leaves. On the other hand, if Natalia is just an unconventional girl—as suggested by her line about not wanting to live among a bunch of women, and choosing instead to live with a bachelor, which might be viewed culturally as quite inappropriate—that could be played up.

Stephen's reaction to her proposal doesn't seem as odd, given his desire for a machine to help him let off steam, and his frustration with more familiar avenues of release. I guess with Stephen, what I want is some idea of what he's thinking as she suggests this, aside from surprise. Aside from his repeated insistence that he needs release periodically, he just seems kind of cold and worn out to me, more than eager for antics. It's mentioned he's old enough to be her father. Has he been lusting after her young hot bod? Does the age difference and their friendship make him feel some protective impulse?

Nitpicky things:

dr_mabeuse said:
Natalia quickly finished her tea and put her cup in the sink, then cast a glance over her shoulder at the kitchen clock: 6:45 PM.

I see why you did it this way, but it doesn't seem natural that she'd look at the clock and think 6:45 p.m. Whether it's day or night would be well established in her mind, and she'd be focused on just the hours and minutes.

dr_mabeuse said:
She washed out the cup and spoon and saucer and gave them a quick dry, then cleaned out the sink with the sponge…She didn’t want to leave the place a mess for Stephen to find when he got in. It was his home after all, and even though they got along famously, she’d still only been boarding here for a little over a month,. She still felt like she was on probation, and so she treated the place like it was her own.

…She swept the table for stray crumbs from her toast and jelly, shook the towel out in the sink…

I had two problems with this passage:

First, that she feels she's on probation, and that she treats the place like it's her own, seems incongruous. Even if the point is that she'd be just as obsessively tidy in her own home, this setup/juxtaposition of statements about her being worried about not leaving a mess for Stephen comes off awkwardly, in my opinion.

Second: she seemed like she was being so meticulous, wiping out the sink after she'd washed up, it seemed unlikely she'd dump a bunch of crumbs into the sink after, and just leave them. However, if this kind of slightly absentminded behavior is going to be a characteristic of hers, it's a nice little detail.

dr_mabeuse said:
November in Chicago was dark enough for her to use the kitchen window as a mirror, and she checked her hair and lipstick

That's a lovely detail—a neat little image which, if given before she checks the clock, could also make the "p.m." unnecessary.

I like your concept, and I enjoyed what you have so far.

-Varian
 
Thanks all for the excellent comments. They're most helpful.

I wonder if I should have posted the next section, where Natalia muses about the offer she's just made. I think her motivations become a bit clearer—or rather, the way she's deluding herself becomes clearer—but I wanted to see if was acceptable the way it was happening so far, or whether she suddenly came across as a conniving sleaze or shameless whore.

The points about Stephen are well-taken, and some of the confusion over his character and motivation I think reflect the fact that he stared out as a gruff, he-man bachelor—a kind of urban Grizzly Adams—and then was turned into someone more hapless and not as ostentatiously virile. Truth be told though, his motivation doesn’t go much beyond the normal male motivation of being presented with no-strings sex, He's naïve enough about women (and himself) not to realize the emotional dynamite they're playing with. I should have changed his age, though. I wanted him to be old enough to repesent a kind of fatherly security for Natalia, but not old enough to raise eyebrows or to seem geriatric.

In the next scene, after Natalia muses over her offer and thinks maybe Stephen's not taken it seriously, he comes back from a trip and sits her down and awkwardly brings it up. He's been thinking about it, and sets down his ideas of the ground rules: no kissing, no displays of affection, no more touching than is absolutely necessary, just quick and businesslike (he uses the term "in and out" to show how quickly and cleanly it will all be, then realizes his gaffe and apologizes.) In that scene (hopefully), we can see how absurd this all is, but these two people—too intelligent for their own good—sit and rationally discuss the arrangement and whether they should undress in front of each other or whether that's too titillating (they decide it is. She'll wait naked for him in bed.)

I know her offer is abrupt, and that's one of the reasons I worried. But I felt like I'd just dumped so much information on the reader with the Ina scene and setting up this rather odd living arrangement, that I wanted to bring in the main plot element ASAP and not spend time trying to describe their relationship further. Besides, I was really afraid to have her think too much about it. It seemed to me to be the kind of thing she'd say without thinking too much about it after a cozy dinner and a couple of bottles of wine when she was feeling close and sisterly with Stephen and the world seems so simple and easy to understand—Hey, I've got it. I'm not using it. You need it. Why not?

I don't think she really knows why she's doing it. The question that bother me is whether the reader can understand her offer even if she can't.

To me, she's lonely and feels terribly undervalued and ignored. In her mind she knows she's better than these widows he goes out with, and she needs to see some proof of her value.

A previous reader objected strongly that Natalia would never make the offer knowing that Stephen was already getting it on the side--that it would her feel cheap to herself--and the fact that she did offer herself was proof that she was trying to co-opt him for herself and was therefore a bad person. I didn't think this was true. If she were trying to make him fall in love with her, then it might be true, but she's not—not consciously. She really thinks she's helping him out, and she's an educated fool. Her degree and experience not only don't help her see what she's getting into, they actually make her believe she can handle it.

I find the idea of these people trying to have sex without feeling anything for each other terribly erotic, because they're both going to fall apart during the act. Stephen, levered up on his arms above her and refusing to look at her face because he knows that would make him lose it, grits his teeth and keeps on apologizing everytime the feel of her body threatens to overwhelm him, and Natalia, holding onto the headboard to keep her hands out of the way and make sure she doesn't inadvertently touch him, can't keep her eyes from his face and the struggle he's going through to maintain his unfeeling objectivity as he's wracked irresistable lust and pleasure. Of course, he's not just fucking some disembodied pussy as they'd both planned. It's attached to Natalia, and that makes all the difference in the world.

Varian—that point about PM and the crumbs in the sink are well-taken. Sharp eyes there.

Thanks to you all, and if anyone is still reading, I'd be grateful for any more input.

--Zoot
 
I don't think she really knows why she's doing it. The question that bothers me is whether the reader can understand her offer even if she can't.
I think it's clear enough that Natalia doesn't know why she's made her offer. This kept my eyes from rolling when she did it. If she doesn't understand it at that moment, why do I need to? Can I not learn why with her? If she's gonna learn why before they do the hunka chunka, that works for me.

I believe your instincts are correct, it's better Natalia make her offer sooner rather than later. The reader knows it's gonna happen, so not much point in waiting. Did you consider even sooner? Like before the story even starts?

What if, when Ina is grilling Natalia, Natalia finally has enough of it and says something like, "Alright, you've been nagging me for months. If you must know, I already offered and her turned me down!" Ina probably smirks and says, "A man turned you down? Puuulease!" Then Natalia can explain she made the offer before Stephen went on his trip but he said he didn't want to risk ruining their arrangement. Naturally, Natalia can also explain why she did it. Or at least why she thinks she did. Of course, upon return Stephen could say, "Well, I thought about it while I was away and maybe it could work with a few rules..."

Regardless of the when and why of Natalia's offer, the challenge I see with this story is overcoming the obvious; we know they will get together and unless we're really dense we know they're going to make a connection beyond the physical. With me knowing all this, unless you get deep inside Natalia, I'm not sure I'll be able to share her experience to an extent that will make it meaningful.

Hope that makes enough sense to be of some use.

Take Care,
Penny
 
I don't think the opening sucked at all, Doc. There are a few nitpicky things (just like always) that i would spruce up, but i found it a good, solid start to a stoy that seems to have a lot of room for humor, romance, and maybe some kink. (Personal opinion, older guys seem more willing to widen their experience base than younglings.)

1. I'd add in more detail and description, to give the reader a better feel for the characters. Although their personalities came through fairly well, I ddn't get the sense that you'd thought much about what they looked like, smelled like, felt like.

2. The details of the house itself would be nice too, although houses are just backdrops, they should still add to the story. Besides, that atique seaman's chest Talia stubbed her toe on on her way to the living room could have uses of a different sort later in the story.

3. I don't know if you speak any Polish or Russian, but you might want to look up a few words in the language, especially slang. Every language has it's one spin on the same words, and add colorful definition to your characters.

4. Since the story seems to be mainly from the viewpoint of Talia, you might want to punch her up alittle bit... her thoughts on her fiance`, her job, her new place in the world, her thoughts on Stephen. It might be nice to see him through -her- eyes, as well as how she sees herself. Keep in mind though,women are their own worst critics, what she thinks of as ugly or average, he may consider to be the epitome of feminine beauty and sexuality.

My two cents and change;

Angelle
 
dr_mabeuse said:
I wonder if I should have posted the next section, where Natalia muses about the offer she's just made. I think her motivations become a bit clearer—or rather, the way she's deluding herself becomes clearer—but I wanted to see if was acceptable the way it was happening so far, or whether she suddenly came across as a conniving sleaze or shameless whore.

I know I would love to see this opening in context of the larger story if you are still considering posting a bit more of it. I think seeing more of it will better allow us to undertsnad the characers and pacing.

~Alex
 
Alex756 said:
I know I would love to see this opening in context of the larger story if you are still considering posting a bit more of it. I think seeing more of it will better allow us to undertsnad the characers and pacing.

~Alex

Your wish is my command!

Here's the following part:
===================

Not the next day, nor the next, nor the day after that, and she wondered if perhaps he'd just forgotten about it or had never taken it seriously in the first place. Natalia rose early and worked late, and Stephen had a Civil War show he attended out of town. She couldn't put it out of her mind though and it began to obsess her as she endured the tedium of the perfume counter at Vael and Dennison or manned the cash register and Berkeley Books.

There were problems of ethics and problems of morality. There were problems of what that made her if she did it, but most of all there was the nagging problem of why she'd ever suggested it in the first place, whether it was Ina's prodding or her own desire to help Stephen out, or something more. Did her heart know something her mind perhaps didn't?

No, no, on this last point she was quite certain. Of course she liked Stephen and found him attractive in an avuncular kind of way (though he really wasn't her type), but it was the kind of affection one feels for a brother or a dear friend. There was no love there. She certainly would have known it if there was.

Nor was it a matter of her own needs, of that she was quite sure. In fact, she couldn't possibly have made the offer if she hadn't been so certain of her body's own indifference to sex. She felt so detached from her own desires that it was truly as if she could give them away, they meant so little to her. It was just as she had said: sex meant nothing to her now. If he wanted it so badly, why not just give it to him?

The next night though—the night after he got back from the show. She got home from the bookstore at ten twenty to find him sitting in the living room, a glass of whiskey in his hand, nervous and moody.

She'd barely hung up her coat than he asked her: "That thing you said the other day. The offer you made?"

There was no sense in playing dumb. "Yes?"

"You were serious?"

Natalia smoothed her skirt down over her thighs and tried to shrug casually. "Certainly."

He stared at her for a moment and then gave a bitter laugh. "Sure you were. But just for argument's sake. How would it work?"

Natalia walked into the living room and sat down on the edge of a chair, her hands folded on her knees.

"How would what work? What do you mean?"

"I mean, there'd have to be some ground rules. There are always ground rules. Like no kissing? No foreplay? Like that?"

She brushed her hair back from her eyes. In truth, she actually hadn't thought about it, about how they'd actually go about doing it. "I'm not sure. I'd have to think."

He smiled. "I've thought about it," he said. "I've come up with some rules. Would you like to hear them?"

He saw the worried look on her face and added, "Oh, don't worry. This is all hypothetical. It's not going to happen tonight, and I doubt it's really ever going to happen. It's just like a problem in interpersonal communications. It's kind of interesting when you think about it."

She smiled nervously at the term, her smile containing more than a little relief. "All right. Tell me, what are your rules?"

He sat forward on his chair and strarted ticking things off on his fingers. "The main thing is to keep our emotions out of this. No displays of affection beyond what we already feel, no words of love, no promises. This has to be just between our, you know, our genitals."

The word made her wince but she managed a small laugh of agreement.

"So no kissing, no caressing, no bodily contact beyond what's absolutely necessary."

"Agreed," she said.

"Second: no obligations. No spending the night, no cuddling and holding afterwards. Keep it all clean and businesslike. It's a hydraulics problem, not a love fest. I get in and get out— Well, maybe that was a bad term, but you know what I mean."

Her heart was hammering, but she managed to smile at his earnestness. "Yes. Agreed."

"I don't think we should do it in our beds, the ones we sleep in. I think we need some neutral corner."

"I have no objection to using my bed," she interrupted. She knew what he was getting at, but she didn't want to concede that there might be something here besides mere sexual servicing. To set aside a separate room was distasteful. It felt like prostitution. "I'm quite comfortable in my bed, Stephen, and you've always respected my privacy."

He glanced at her to see if she were serious. She'd folded her arms over her breasts protectively.

"All right. Your bed then. And there'll be no undressing. If we do this, we'll be all ready for each other. No strip teases or anything like that."
"Agreed."

"Most importantly, this won't change anything between us, not our feelings or our relationship or our living arrangements. You're not going to be my mistress, and I'm not going to be your lover. I'm not going to reduce your rent or—"

"Stephen! Please!"

"Okay. Sorry. I know it’s not like that, but I want this all out on the table. We have to put our feelings aside and treat this like adults."

"Yes, I know. But still, some things go without saying. Or at least I'd hope so."

"Yes. You're right. My apologies. That was unnecessary."

"Fine. Apology accepted. Anything else?"

He cleared his throat and looked uncomfortable. "Are you safe? I mean, pregnancy-wise, because I can…"

"Yes, I'm safe. I'm on the pill. And you? You know a lot of women."

He reached into his shirt pocket and pulled out a folded piece of paper. "I just got the lab results today. I'm clean."

Natalia took the paper from his hands and her fingers were shaking. She felt chills on the backs of her arms and her nipples stiffened. He'd gone to a lab and had a complete blood work-up and STD tests done. She suddenly felt the import of their arrangement in a queasy looseness in the pit of her stomach and a tightness between her legs.

She looked at the computerized print out with its column of dot-matrix "negatives" and "within limits," hardly seeing it. The date of testing showed he'd gone the morning after her suggestion.

She handed it back without a word, her blood cold, and he folded it up and put it back into his shirt pocket.

"The only other thing is that you know that you can refuse me or tell me to stop at any time and I will. I don't want to hurt you, Natalia, and I don’t want to jeopardize the friendship we have between us. That would be the absolute worst thing that could happen. For any reason, or no reason at all, you just tell me no, and I stop, no questions asked."

"Yes," she said. "Of course, Stephen. And you have to feel the same way. You can stop it at any time and not worrying about hurting my feelings."

He looked at her for a moment, and said, "Yes, well, that's another thing. See, if we do this, you have to be entirely passive, Natalia. You can't be an active partner, since that shows affection, do you see? That's what people do when they make love. We won't be making love, not actually. I'll just be, well, using that part of your body. Understand?"

Natalia felt a surge of unaccountable excitement at his words. The idea of being used, totally detached from what was going on was terribly lewd and suggestive. She'd be watching him use her body.

He stared at her, seeing her nervousness. "Do you want to forget this right now? We can, Natalia. We can just drop the whole thing. Maybe you want to reconsider. That might be a good idea."

"No, Stephen." She forced herself to look directly at him. "Let's not be childish. I'm a grown woman. I know what I'm doing."

He thought about that, then stood up.

He was a big man and had never lost his wrestler's physique after college. He had strong features, and very kind eyes. It was his eyes she'd been thinking of when she'd made her offer.

"Well, since we're not doing it now, or in the foreseeable future, I think I'm still allowed a small show of affection." He put this hands on the arms of her chair and leaned over to plant a kiss on her cheek. "Goodnight, Natalia. I'm going to bed."

Natalia sat there numbly, eyes on the carpet as he walked into the back of the house and his bedroom. She closed her eyes and made herself imagine it—Stephen coming back into the room, his clothes off. He'd be erect. The lights would be off but there'd be enough light to see that he was erect and smiling shyly.

She'd be sitting in this chair, naked, but she'd hardly be here. She'd be absent, just watching her body. She'd scoot a little lower in the chair, so she could hang her thighs over the arms, and that's what she'd do, her arms over her head holding on to the back of the chair.

Natalia felt the blood ruish to her face as she imagined spreading her legs for him. Could she really do it? It was only her body after all. It was nothing he hadn't seen before.

Would the lights be on? Would he look at her the way a man looks at a woman? Or would his face be blank and passive? Concentrating n the "hyrdaulics"?

He'd see that she was ready and come over and bend his knees, rest them against the front of the chair. He'd take himself in his hand and move the head up and down in her slit…

Natalia opened her eyes with a start. She was lubricating, and her breasts felt tight and full.

She could do it, she realized. She really could. But she could allow herself to think no further. Her body ws already telling hr how it felt as he entered her, but she wouldn't listen.

She jumped up and picked up Stephen's glass, turned off the lights and walked into the kitchen. He'd already washed up, so there was nothing to do but leave his glass in the sink, turn off the lights down here and go up to her room. The light was on under his door and she didn't want to disturb him by straightening up. She was suddenly exhausted..

She climbed the stairs to her room and undressed, threw on a Chicago Bears jersey as a nightshirt, and crawled into bed—her bed. She turned off the lights and pulled the blankets up to her chin. Her mind was racing, but the bed was warm and she was oon aware that something was wrong.

It was cold outside but there was no wind. The night was still, but from downstairs came a faint, rhythmic creaking that she immediately and instinctively recognized as sexual in nature—steady, unremitting, soft and somehow urgent. It was the sound of Stephen's bed moving, communicated to the wall by his headboard and spreading through the house.


* * *

Work and the dark Chicago nights. The boredom of the perfume counter and the drudgery of the bookstore. Her savings account, slowly inching towards ten thousand dollars, which seemed like so much when she started but now seemed like so little. Calls to Petros filled with static and break-ups and the ghostly threads of strangers' voices cutting in and out. He was hanging out with people she didn't like. She’d heard that much, and that he missed her, but his words were small and far away. Her own native language felt strange in her mouth.

She felt the offer between her legs. She washed it in the shower and was aware of it in bed. The offer was located right over her mound in her tuft of trimmed pubic hair, as if she'd planted a sign there, but strangely, he seemed not to notice it. Their relationship continued as always, with late suppers at the kitchen table, an occasional night out. The winter crushed down on her. The telephone calls were so feeble.

She felt the offer and so maybe it wasn’t surprising when that she knew when it was going to happen, but she felt it inside her like an arthritic knee feels rain, like a burn feels heat.

It had been a bad day. Another girl was promoted over her at Vael and Dennison because she was younger and had no accent. The position should have been Natalia’s because she’d broken the other girl in. Then at the bookstore she came out fifty-eight dollars short when she balanced out. That was more than she took home in a night. She came home exhausted and furious, and found Stephen seated in front of the television drinking a beer. He didn’t look up at her when she came in. She didn’t think he was drunk, but in one of his depressions.

“You had a bad one too?” she asked as she took off her coat.

He looked at her for the first time, and the sadness in his eyes startled her. She was alarmed.

“Did something happen?” she asked.

“No,” he said. “Nothing happened. Just a bad day, like you said.”

“Do you want something to eat?”

“No. Not hungry.”

Natalia sat down and took off her shoes. “Me either. I think I’ll take a bath and turn in. Good night, Stephen.”

“Night.”
 
I'm not finished reading the new piece yet, but I had to stop and say this is absolutely hilarious:
Stephen in the story said:
It's a hydraulics problem...
That's so perfect. Have you considered calling the story "A Hydraulics Problem." :)
 
Hm, this is the first time I try to write here, so I am not very used to this yet. Thus sorry if what I write is nonsense and not much help...

Anyway, there were some things that make me wonder at first, but then during the later course of the text you posted it became more clear.

One thing is, when she thinks about her motives, she says it isn't because she'd want to have sex for her own needs, and that her own body is indifferent to sex. That made me think of her as frigid for a moment and thus her whole offer of sex seemed not logical to me. Such a detachment from the own body to just offer sex as a favor, without that it gives anything to oneselfs seems quite unlikely... But then of course later on this becomes more clear, I guess maybe a hint could be dropped in at that part already, because it had me wondering until I got to the later part.

The other thing was about language - I assume that Natalia and Ina's conversation is in Polish, though I guess knowing that they both are Polish makes it unnecessary to mention this. But later on I had the impression that her talking to Stephen was going a bit too flawless. On the other hand, letting her make weird mistakes just for the sake of showing her accent might be somewhat artificial I guess... Thus the mention of the other girl having less of an accent, and also of her own language becoming strange to her, are good solutions...

So basically, all points I came up with that I wondered about while reading were solved a bit later in the texts...
 
Hi Munachi, and thanks for joining in. Nothing worng with your comments at all.

The question of accent always bothers me, in my stuff and in other stories. I'm not good enough to handle dialect and accents when I write. They always seem false and contrived and silly to me, so I pretty much adopted the strategy of suggesting to the reader that Natalia has an accent and left it at that. I did try to make her speak a bit more formally at first—"I am" rather they "I 'm" and "they are" rather than "they're"—the kind of fussiness a non-native speaker might use, but I might have unconsciously abandoned that after a while. But putting actualy grammatical mistakes in her speech would, I think, jump out at the reader and make her seem ignorant. She's not. She's a very educated woman, and while she has an accent, I think her grammar is pretty much perfect. I might have been too free with my use of English idioms though. It's important to me to show that she's almost comfortable in America, but still an outsider.

As to her frigidity, I think if you asked her if she were frigid she'd be shocked. Of course not, she'd say. She'd say she just wasn't interested at the present time. That's a lie too. She's very lonely, and lonely for affection and appreciation more than for sex. She just refuses to admit it to herself, because Natalia's the kind of woman for whom the idea of sex without love is a contradicton in terms. Her offer is basically her way around that dilemma. She really thinks she'll be able to lie there and get fucked and not feel anything because she's not emotionally involved. She's going to find that this contrived and artificial objectivity is insanely arousing though, more arousing than if they were simply making honest love. Repressed emotions are always more powerful and explosive.

A for Penny's "hydraulics", yeah. that made me laugh too. I am having a hell of a time coming up with a title (as usual), but I don't know about that one. I think "hydraulics" is too dismissive of what happens to them later on, which is kind of serious. The working title is "The Arrangement", which is awfully bland, and I'm thinking about changing it to "Private Parts".

Thanks for the comments so far, and I'd welcome any more.
 
Natalia's the kind of woman for whom the idea of sex without love is a contradicton in terms.

Is there any other kind, really? At least, if she is coming from her feminine... and Natalia is all girl :)

Her motivation is believable to me, because she is believable... she has so clearly fallen for him, although she doesn't know it yet... denial isn't just a river in Egypt...

His motivation is clear as well... "If I could buy a machine..." well that says it all, doesn't it? The masculine's desire for freedom... Woody Allen's orgasmitron or whatever the heck it was called comes to mind...

this is actually quite a beautiful merging of the masculine view (sex without strings) and the feminine (sex equals love) and I can't wait to get to reading the blend of them, which is, really, what the coupling is about... bringing those two energies together... freedom becomes love, and love becomes freedom... don't stop, doc!

and I could hear her accent, Ina's much stronger, I wouldn't worry too much there... readers aren't stupid, they can fill in the blanks... the suggestion of her nationality is enough for me... (although I think you're right, you unconsciously drop it at some point, she starts sounding more Americanized... might be a consistency issue, perhaps something to re-address upon editing)...

the voyeur aspect of this, too, from her perspective, is arousing... watching him "have" her... watching herself, standing outside herself... I am smiling just imagining that scenario dissolving into an impossible tangled mess... oh yes...

as for a title, I'd like to suggest (offer? :)) "The Offer." From this passage, which so personified the offer itself: "She felt the offer between her legs. She washed it in the shower and was aware of it in bed. The offer was located right over her mound in her tuft of trimmed pubic hair..."

It is the offer which serves as a catalyst... it is the heat between them.
 
dr_mabeuse said:
The question of accent always bothers me, in my stuff and in other stories. I'm not good enough to handle dialect and accents when I write. They always seem false and contrived and silly to me, so I pretty much adopted the strategy of suggesting to the reader that Natalia has an accent and left it at that. I did try to make her speak a bit more formally at first—"I am" rather they "I 'm" and "they are" rather than "they're"—the kind of fussiness a non-native speaker might use, but I might have unconsciously abandoned that after a while. But putting actualy grammatical mistakes in her speech would, I think, jump out at the reader and make her seem ignorant. She's not. She's a very educated woman, and while she has an accent, I think her grammar is pretty much perfect. I might have been too free with my use of English idioms though. It's important to me to show that she's almost comfortable in America, but still an outsider.

I've been struggling with this myself--wanting to capture the ring of dialogue of a character who's not a native English speaker, without having it come off like a parody, or making the character seem unintelligent.

The thing that I've found works best for me is to write such characters' dialogue not as full of grammatical errors, but with that slightly unnatural phrasing that's inevitable for non-native speakers, even when they've exceeded most native college graduates mastery of the rules of grammar.

Refraining from using contractions and other markers of casual speech, as you've already been doing, is definitely part of this.

"Yes, I know. But still, some things go without saying. Or at least I'd hope so."

Of course, it depends on how fluent the individual is, but in my opinion, the use of the word "still" here doesn't seem consistent with an ESL-er, nor does her use of "at least," and, now that I think about it, even the phrase, "some things go without saying." A notable characteristic of people speaking a second (or fourth or fifth) language is that, by comparison with native speakers, they sound stilted. I'd imagine Natalia expressing this thought in this way:

"Yes, I know. But I would hope that some things do not need to be said."

-V
 
True, having her speak in a more formal and maybe overly correct way is a good way to make her sound foreign without making her sound silly, especially in a case like natalia who is a very educated person. I guess it all depends on the character and also how they learned the language. I once let a character of mine do quite a lot of mistakes or very shortened sentences - but in that case the context didn't allow for her to speak the language very well... But yes, you are right, it is a good solution to do it like that, and it is possible that I just didn't realise while reading that she speaks a bit more formal because these things are more difficult to tell in a foreign language (just as I don't notice someone's accent in English as long as it's less strong than my own)...
 
dr_mabeuse said:
The question of accent always bothers me, in my stuff and in other stories. I'm not good enough to handle dialect and accents when I write. They always seem false and contrived and silly to me, so I pretty much adopted the strategy of suggesting to the reader that Natalia has an accent and left it at that. I did try to make her speak a bit more formally at first—"I am" rather they "I 'm" and "they are" rather than "they're ...

I encountered the same issue with a recent story and opted for the same solution only to decide the dialogue without contractions made my characters too stiff. So I changed it back. Seeing Varian's fine example makes me wonder if I made a mistake.
 
That's a great idea, Varian, and dead right on too.

I'll have to make another sweep through the story and fix her speech--take out the idioms and make it a bit more stilted and formal. I like what that says about her character too and her relationship with Stephen, the way they're close, but she still holds him at arm's length.
 
Sorry for only getting part of the way through the new part, wil comment in detail later but for the matter of the accent.

Really dialog needs to be read out loud to know what it sounds like.

The contraction issue. I'd is one of the last contractions to be taken into speach from eastern europe in my experience. That should remain I would or such, don't is one of the first.

I love dialog so I am torturing myself typing right now to comment (ER nurse mangeled my right arm) one of the best examples I've come across recently of what you're trying to do with dialog is in Enchantment by Orson scott card, might be worth a glance.

Right now I think the dialog is too stiff in some wrong places and too relaxed in others. Mostly around the contractions and its really just a 'sound' thing to me being off. The subject verb object structure in some very american sentences seems too fluid, not that making mistakes is the right way either, but almost more of a british english stucture in some places instead of an american english structure.

I spent Sunday morning talking to a man from Nigeria (hospital security guard) He had been in the US for 3 years and while his sentence structure was becoming american it was still very british in many places. The same forms of teaching english are in play in eastern europe where it really is off a british model.

I admit I'm a dialect junkie, who else notices that crap at 5AM after being in the ER for 7 hours.

~Alex
 
Emerging from grading hell...

Hi Dr. M.

I've finally made it to this story after weeks of grading, grading, grading. Let me just say what a pleasure it is to read writing where I don't have to remind the author that sentences require verbs and that plural nouns don't require apostrophes! Yeesh. What are they teaching them in high school these days?

Rant over.

I had the advantage of reading both parts of the story plus the comments of the SDC crew before writing, so I just want to chime in on a couple of things. When I read the first part, like a couple of people, I was caught by surprise by her offer. After reading the various comments of others, I think that the only thing I would add is that you might return to the sudden nature of the author in her later reflections on the moment. It seems to me that she's secretly proud of herself for being so forward and that she might well return to that moment and relive the feelings it evoked for her--pride, independence, self-possession, etc.

On the question of accent, I agree with the others that you either have to write in accent very well, or not at all. Bad accented writing is sort of like listening to Tom Cruise try to speak with an upper class British accent. It just bugs the shit out of you. I spend most of my time around East Europeans and so for me it was easy to have Natalia and Ina speak in accented English in my head without any word twisting on your part. And, I agree that it's a nice idea to make her speech with Stephen more stilted.

"hydrolics problem" is, as one of the previous posters said, a stroke of genius (no pun intended). Stephen sees her as his real live Fleshlight and she sees sex as a way to break down the barrier between them.

I can't wait to read the actual sex scenes...

Allan
 
Something quite minor, but that had me wondering for a while - how did you decide for the name Petros for her fiancé? While it exists every now and then in Poland, at least according to my Polish relatives it is not typical at all... The typical Polish form of Peter would be Pjotr... Of course, as I said, that isn't really of importance, as not all people have names that are traditional in their own country, it just had made me wonder when I first read your post...
 
Munachi said:
Something quite minor, but that had me wondering for a while - how did you decide for the name Petros for her fiancé? While it exists every now and then in Poland, at least according to my Polish relatives it is not typical at all... The typical Polish form of Peter would be Pjotr... Of course, as I said, that isn't really of importance, as not all people have names that are traditional in their own country, it just had made me wonder when I first read your post...

You got me, Munachi. I grabbed these names out of the air and never went back and changed them. Natalia is Russian as far as I know, and Petros is maybe Greek. I could have used Piotr, but it just so happens I know a guy named Piotr who is a very funny man and I couldn't use that name with a straight face.

Here's a good name source for Eastern European names, by the way:

http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/names/easteuropean.htm

This piece kind of wrote itself, and when things are going that well I don't like to stop for things like getting names right. I barreled ahead in this one meaning to go back and change the names later, and never got to it.
 
Petros is maybe Greek

Yup... my son is "Dmitrios"... most names that end thusly are Greek in origin...

"Petros, a 2-syllable boy's name of Greek origin, means: The rock; stone."

I actually really like the name... and the meaning... I don't know how relevant it is that it be a Polish name, necessarily... even Europeans go outside their cultural heritage to choose their children's names sometimes... :)
 
Well yes, as I said, it probably doesn't matter all that much, and of course people often have names that aren't traditional to their country, though I guess in a story it can sometimes make you stumble a bit, because so many writers imply some meaning with the names they use (which is why I always have a hard time deciding for names and often don't even give my characters a name). Natalia, while being a russian name, is appearantly quite commonly used in Poland, btw.
 
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