Story Discussion Charleyh, SDC Main queue. 11/01/05

[CharleyH]

A bit of background: I had posted Chapter one last year for SDC discussion and received many great suggestions, thank you. In this case, some of you may be familiar with the characters already. I have posted links to Chapters One and Two should you wish to revisit or read, however am posting two sets of question to make it easier for those who don't wish to read anything but the following approx. 1800 word story. Thanks in advance.

LINKS:
Chapter One
Chapter Two


QUESTIONS:

For those who did not see the first chapter and/ or will not read anything but chapter 3:

1) Does this chapter reflect a woman trying to figure out her role in life?
2) Does Brie seem too submissive particularly in her dealings with Amelia, or just emotionless?
3) What are the major questions or perhaps curiosities you have at the end of this chapter?
4) Otherwise, just your overall impression of the chapter, knowing there are two previous ones and more to follow.

For those more familiar with Chapter One, or those who do, or have read Chapter Two:

i) I am fighting with myself on chapter 3. On one hand, I am worried that Brie's almost arrogant tone of voice in Chapters 1 and 2 have changed here. I wonder if she is too 'feeling' at this moment. Does the tone of this chapter suit the previous one or two? If she is too feeling, should I wait a bit longer, hold the reader in a sort of suspense and keep her distant from her emotion/self for now.

ii) Is this chapter too mediocre compared to what you have read? I feel the tone, the elaborateness of previous chapters is missing some how, but can't pinpoint it, or maybe something else. What do you think and if so how?

iii) Do I give away too much information here?

iv) Any other overall impressions are welcome.


Chapter 3:

The condo was darkly lit when I arrived home. Ness had been busy. I could smell a hint of furniture polish underneath the cranberry aroma from the diffuser. Candles were lit around the living area and, the moment I walked in, Ness stood and poured me a glass of red Languedoc.

It should have been romantic, but instead the room gave off a blend of natural and unnatural scents. It seemed streaked with blackness and what little light there was seemed more like shards.

"Madame."

He handed me the glass.

I cringed at the same address that I had heard all night at work, sliced the stem of the glass between my fingers, and gripped the bowl with my fingertips. The last thing I wanted was to come home and work. I almost hated him for that.

The moment we met, I made it clear to him that I wanted an equal lover. I made it clear that I would have other lovers, and he accepted it for a while. However, the day we moved in, he began forcing his own submission on me. It was hard not to enjoy what he gave or indulge his fetishes, particularly his foot fetish after a long day at work, but I did not need a weak man. After a full day of being dominant, all I wanted was to come home and not have to play a role.

With no word, I flicked on the light in the living room, set my wine glass on the coffee table, and sunk into the sofa, exhausted.

Ness looked confused. He shouldn't have. He stared at me with a look of dejection, as if he had something special planned. But what is so special about coming home only to work again? I was tired. He looked at me with the same glace Amelia used to cast, when she told me that 'I ruined her moments'.

Amelia was a different creature, though. She needed to be taken care of, even if she was a bitch. She was fragile, not simply her ego, but to the extent of a deeper core. When I first met her, she glowed. I remember that. I saved her in a bar from three predators. After that, our whole relationship seemed focused around me saving her from her obsessions, addictions and the worst predator - herself. She wasn't unlike my sister, except she had a much stronger joie de vivre and alternately a joie de hate for all those who loved her.

* * *

Amelia grabbed hold of the naked stranger's hand. Still wearing her heels, she stepped into the pool, and waded to where the water was falling.

"There's not enough water pressure. You aren't going to get any bubbles," I stated sarcastically, and laughed, knowing she had been wanting to fuck the guy no longer in his sarong all night.


Maegan's camera was clicking wildly, and even though Amelia threw me a hateful glance, she did it with sultry lips, and a sexy pose. She was an eternal model, always on show.

Ignoring my words, she poured the bottle of lavender bubble bath into the falling steam of water.

No bubbles.

“Fuck!” she yelled, slapping an evil glance at me, as if I had willed it. I raised my eyebrows with a small 'told you so' smile.

Dave laid down in front of me, happy to watch the spectacle, and nuzzled the back of his head into my breasts. I raised my hand and ran it through his hair.

"More! More!" The other Dave, totally stoned and drunk, managed to get excited, and Amelia laughed, pouring out the whole bottle as the guy with no sarong pressed his dick to her postured ass.

Maegan clicked the camera furiously, stopping only for the right angle, the perfect light, and perfect pose.

One of the wannabe it-girls grabbed the other Dave. She had been eyeing him all night. Who wouldn't? He was an upcoming director with an Indie winning film. She planted her thick lips full over his mouth, shutting him up with her tongue. Her hands hungrily grasping his pants, she yanked them down in a blink, and before we knew it, she was on her knees deep-throating his cock.

The other Dave and I looked at each other and laughed.

"You're gonna have a bloody sore jaw, love," Dave shouted at her. We both knew that the other Dave, while he might get it up, would never get it off in his current state.

The other wannabe it-girl, Rolly, and Jen knew where the real fame was, and climbed into the fountain with Amelia. A late night snapped, reality-type art sex fest. Maegan was 'the' photographer, and anything she shot, pro-light or none, eventually got published somewhere.

"Out of film, guys," Maegan finally said, but no one seemed to hear her, and when I looked again, Amelia was in the fountain fucking the sarongless guy.

Dave turned around, facing me, and Maegan came up behind him, sitting on the grass and rubbing his back, staring at me with wide and sorry eyes.

"You want to say something to her, love?" Dave gently lifted his hand to my jaw, and pulled my face to his, kissing me.

Maegan and Dave had been good friends for long time.

"If I cared..." I laughed half-heartedly, "maybe."

I'm not sure if I cared or not at that point in our relationship. I was a bit put off, perhaps, but not because she was fucking someone else - she fucked a lot of people - but in the public way she had done it, and so pretentiously flaunting. Looks, history, emotion or money - there was little private about Amelia, and nothing personal. In this respect, Amelia and my Mother owned a shared something, although 'nothing personal" refer's more to my Mother's emotion.

Of course, I knew it was for show. Amelia wanted a reaction. I knew her well enough to know that, but I didn't care to give her one that night. I did not want to give her what she wanted anymore.

"I can trash the photos," Maegan said.

"No. I bet they're awesome, babe. Really, I don't care, it's been over for a while."

In fact, it had probably been over from the moment Amelia and I met. The difference between Amelia and I was that she wanted what she wanted, and got it at the expense of anyone around her. To me, the cost was too great. And, as I looked at her undulating her hips and moaning fuck me, I realized that the attention she needed, I was too tired of giving.

***

"There is something I need to talk to you girls about," my Mother stated.

I knew there had been something. Every bone in my twelve-year-old body could feel it. She would never have raised her arm around Dani otherwise, and she most certainly would not have allowed us the pleasure of music that we wanted to hear.

"I will be leaving for the summer."

Dani's eyes fixed on Mother, confused and uncertain. She instinctively grabbed the record jacket, and placed it behind her back.

"We won't play it again, Mom," she smiled, her eyes glassy.

I stood, still waiting.

"Oh, you can play the album as much as you like, mon cherie." Mother swept her hand across Dani's face.

"I will be back before you begin school in England."

"England." I scowled.

"Brigette," Mother firmed.

Dani looked at me, and then grabbed Mother's hand. "We really don't need this music, Mom. It's not ours anyhow. I like Touchakowsky," she mispronounced.

"She's been planning this for a while," I composed myself and stated as matter-of-factly as Mother had.

She solidified her look on me.

"I will be setting you up at a school called Benenden. You'll stay the summer with your guardians, and then I will be moving to New York on my return." She turned to Dani. "It's time you became independent young ladies."

"I don't like England, mommy," Dani said as she clung to Mother, who was getting increasingly uncomfortable with my sister's neediness.

"New York?" I knew my geography. I also knew she was dating a younger rich guy. "It's him," spilled from my lips in a biting and emotional candour. "It's Mr. Grosvenor."

Mother swept Dani from her lap, and stood. "There is... no discussion."

"I don't understand," Dani said looking at Mother.

"She's sending us away," I snapped. "She doesn't want us ruining her..." I looked at Mother as carefully intense as she stared back at me. "She can't get fucked if we're around."

I had, in saying what I did, hoped for some burst of emotion, some form of anger, something real and passionate from her, but her lips merely raised into an unstartled smile. "I had only thought of trying Benendon for a year, to see how you girls liked it. But your reaction Brigette, indicates that it will probably be longer."

Dani looked confused, her eyes welling, staring at me as if my words were willing Mother to send us away for longer. I could feel my sister almost hating me in that moment, but I knew that the words my Mother spoke were lies. I knew she had intended to send us there until we were ready for University. I knew because I had seen the formal offer, and the invoices, paid in advance, on her desk in her study.

***

As I looked at Ness, I wondered if all my lovers had been selfish and topping from the bottom. Wanting only for themselves, at the expense of anyone else's emotions or boundaries.

Ness walked to me and fell to his knees, grabbed my hand, and kissed it. "Are you going to at least acknowledge me?"

I felt at a loss, not even really sure if I could remember feeling much of anything at any point. I wasn't even sure what I was supposed to feel, just like that day with Amelia. I took a sip of wine, staring straight ahead, trying to piece together all the disparate thoughts running through my mind. I did not want a slave. I did not need one. I had plenty of submissives at work, and the more I sat there and thought about my role, both at work and home, the more I came to wonder if I was the slave imprisoned to perform one role after another. With Ness, I had more leeway than at work, but what is a 'safe word' except power over the person in charge?

"I can't do this anymore, Ness," I stated blankly, staring to nowhere, and then glanced down at him.

"Do what?" he said with his lips trembling.

Just then, the phone rang. On the first ring, I thought he might get up to get it, but he didn't. He wanted to know what I meant, even though in his heart he knew. On the second ring, I almost told him to answer it, but by the third ring, I decided it was time to get up and get it myself.

"Hello?" I asked, staring back at Ness who did not move from his knees.

"Brie, it's Dani," my sister began, and then burst into tears. "It's Mother..."

 

[drlust]

Hi CharlyH:

Long time no see. As always, it's a great pleasure to read what you've written.

I did not read the early chapters, so I'm reacting to this cold. Here's what I think of it on first blush:

I get a good feel for the kinetic nature of the party in the scene you paint, although I do have to admit that I got confused about which Dave was which and had to scroll up and down a couple of times to keep them straight.

I did feel as though the narrator comes across as a woman trying to find herself--cycling between arrogance and slightly uncertain posing. But I also came away wanting to know her better. I'm going to have to go back now and read the first two chapters to see if her back story is sufficient for me to set aside my uncertainties about her from this one part of the larger work. I'm betting I'll be satisfied when I'm done.

I found Brie hard to come to grips with. Maybe this answers your question about her and maybe it doesn't. But I just didn't feel as though I understood her motivations from this chapter. Again, maybe when I go back and read the first two chapters she will make better sense to me. But based on this, I can't get inside her head enough for me to be satisfied.

As always in your writing, I like the unexpected touches--the smells, the sounds. Your attention to these details is one of the things I've always appreciated about your stories.

Drop me an email one of these days. It would be nice to catch up.

Allan
aka drlust (new email drlust2005@yahoo.com)

 

[wishfulthinking]

Hi Charley,

I'll come back and post my thoughts. But PLEASE (yes, begging is involved) change it to Bri instead of Brie

(all I can think of is cheese )

 

[wishfulthinking]

Hi Charley, interesting piece. It is very disjointed, so I'm guessing these are excepts?

1) Does this chapter reflect a woman trying to figure out her role in life?

I think she is wondering how did she get here, again?

As I looked at Ness, I wondered if all my lovers had been selfish and topping from the bottom. Wanting only for themselves, at the expense of anyone else's emotions or boundaries.

At this point I might have liked to have seen some self analysis or questions of why, if this isn't what she wanted in a partner, she found herself attracted to this sort, or why they were attracted to her.

I find it very difficult to pull off this sort of thing, so you've done very well in my book!

2) Does Brie seem too submissive particularly in her dealings with Amelia, or just emotionless?

I don't think submissive is the word. Perhaps 'passive' but not in a bad way - more, what was I thinking? I think there is a tiny whiff of self-disgust mixed with pretending to not care when it does hurt - again, very difficult to do! I'm envious

3) What are the major questions or perhaps curiosities you have at the end of this chapter?

What role Dani has played in her life in recent times if any[having not read the previous chapters]

How does she cope with being alone? [now that ness might get the boot]

Will she let ness hang around to distract her from her family problems?

Will she use this opportunity to get out of her rut?


4) Otherwise, just your overall impression of the chapter, knowing there are two previous ones and more to follow.

I guess the big thing I got from it was perhaps she was beginning to realise a pattern in her partners, and that they emotionally drained her. Don't know if this is what you intend, but if it was, you did a bloody good job in such a short amount of words.

Cheers, WT

 

[CharleyH]

Hi CharlyH:

Long time no see. As always, it's a great pleasure to read what you've written.

I did not read the early chapters, so I'm reacting to this cold. Here's what I think of it on first blush:

I get a good feel for the kinetic nature of the party in the scene you paint, although I do have to admit that I got confused about which Dave was which and had to scroll up and down a couple of times to keep them straight.

I did feel as though the narrator comes across as a woman trying to find herself--cycling between arrogance and slightly uncertain posing. But I also came away wanting to know her better. I'm going to have to go back now and read the first two chapters to see if her back story is sufficient for me to set aside my uncertainties about her from this one part of the larger work. I'm betting I'll be satisfied when I'm done.

I found Brie hard to come to grips with. Maybe this answers your question about her and maybe it doesn't. But I just didn't feel as though I understood her motivations from this chapter. Again, maybe when I go back and read the first two chapters she will make better sense to me. But based on this, I can't get inside her head enough for me to be satisfied.

As always in your writing, I like the unexpected touches--the smells, the sounds. Your attention to these details is one of the things I've always appreciated about your stories.

Drop me an email one of these days. It would be nice to catch up.

Allan
aka drlust (new email drlust2005@yahoo.com)

Ah, Dr.Lust. Thank you. Its amazing to see you as well (as an aside I changed my addy will touch base with the new one). I don't expect anyone reading this chapter to really understand what is going on. It was a difficult decision to put it up for review knowing there are two chapters previously, and I appreciate that no one coming in cold. would read the two prior. Still, I hoped I had offered enough for both those cold and those who had seen chapter one. I will certainly take the two Daves into consideration.

I used it because there was always two Daves at every party I ever attended in my life. Sometimes people yell across the room and both answered, other times we needed to distinguish with Dave one and Dave two, for example. I thought Dave the primary character could be Dave, and the other Dave, simply the other Dave. Perhaps too much reality in a novel? Dave and David could work, but I did want to retain that injection of reality.

I am pleased that you see her as arrogant. I was worried that I had lapsed in this chapter: somehow stole her semi-coldness away in favour of something more emotional, here. Thank you for the observation. It helps greatly.

I also thank you regarding her motivations. I think they are made more clear in 1 and 2, but she's still not certain what she wants or is looking for as a character, and this is the effect I wanted to elicit and maintain until she figures it out. It is her story, afterall... even if I know whats going to happen.

Thank you so much. (BIG kiss and hug, Allan - it's been too long )

 

[CharleyH]

Hi Charley,

I'll come back and post my thoughts. But PLEASE (yes, begging is involved) change it to Bri instead of Brie

(all I can think of is cheese )

Food is sort of a factor so I will leave it, most purposefully, but I understand your sentiment. lol

 

[CharleyH]

Hi Charley, interesting piece. It is very disjointed, so I'm guessing these are excepts?

1) Does this chapter reflect a woman trying to figure out her role in life?

I think she is wondering how did she get here, again?



At this point I might have liked to have seen some self analysis or questions of why, if this isn't what she wanted in a partner, she found herself attracted to this sort, or why they were attracted to her.

I find it very difficult to pull off this sort of thing, so you've done very well in my book!

2) Does Brie seem too submissive particularly in her dealings with Amelia, or just emotionless?

I don't think submissive is the word. Perhaps 'passive' but not in a bad way - more, what was I thinking? I think there is a tiny whiff of self-disgust mixed with pretending to not care when it does hurt - again, very difficult to do! I'm envious

3) What are the major questions or perhaps curiosities you have at the end of this chapter?

What role Dani has played in her life in recent times if any[having not read the previous chapters]

How does she cope with being alone? [now that ness might get the boot]

Will she let ness hang around to distract her from her family problems?

Will she use this opportunity to get out of her rut?


4) Otherwise, just your overall impression of the chapter, knowing there are two previous ones and more to follow.

I guess the big thing I got from it was perhaps she was beginning to realise a pattern in her partners, and that they emotionally drained her. Don't know if this is what you intend, but if it was, you did a bloody good job in such a short amount of words.

Cheers, WT

Not excerpt so much as flashback intermingled, which I think is probably easier to grasp from the first chapter setting out the style I am trying to acheive. However, I am interested to know how you see it disjointed, since I've always kind of prided in my ability to seemlessly pass from past to present and back again.

Self-discust is a good word, as in the previous chapters she more closely looks at her role as a 'Madame' - as a dominant a dominatrix. This chapter summarizes it a bit, but keeps her waivering as both you and DrLust suggest, sort of, so I am happy, very happy that no one can deterimine in this chapter 'alone' what the question is, and certainly I don't want the answer yet.

Thank you for your questions, Wishful. They will 'definately' be helpful to me to keep them in mind as I move forward.

 

[neonlyte]

Always a pleasure to read you. You force me to think up to your level and manage to pull it off without making me feel inadequate. I'll respond in reverse order.

iv) Any other overall impressions are welcome.
It's a different voice. By accident or design I'm not entirely certain. Could be either, there's change coming in each retold incident. Weariness, Brie's. Yours?

iii) Do I give away too much information here?
No. Much helps to clarify what has shaped her character, though the incident with Mother offers less than I'd have been prepared to read.

ii) Is this chapter too mediocre compared to what you have read? I feel the tone, the elaborateness of previous chapters is missing some how, but can't pinpoint it, or maybe something else. What do you think and if so how?
The piece lacks the timbre of the previous chapters, I have the impression this chapter is either heavily edited or a filler to move the story to where you want it to be. This is a 'winding up' of many events in Brie's life, past and current. The elaboration is there, but not necessarily where I want it. The Amelia scene tries to repeat the success of the first chapter party - and falls short in my opinion, tripping on the reflective mood of the rest of the chapter and failing to capture entirely Brie's mood of the moment.

i) I am fighting with myself on chapter 3. On one hand, I am worried that Brie's almost arrogant tone of voice in Chapters 1 and 2 have changed here. I wonder if she is too 'feeling' at this moment. Does the tone of this chapter suit the previous one or two? If she is too feeling, should I wait a bit longer, hold the reader in a sort of suspense and keep her distant from her emotion/self for now.
Here's the nub of it, which is really why I worked the questions backwards. You may have fallen between two stools (what an unpleasant cliche that is). You clearly have to let the emotional Brie loose at some point but you desire to tease your readership for longer. If she were 'more angry' with herself, Ness, Amelia, Mother you might find a way to bridge the divide. I'm not convinced it works as currently written, she is neither the one or the other.

Don't know how that might help, just my thoughts.

Will

 

[dr_mabeuse]

That's tough, Charlie, asking us to remember a chapter from a year or so ago. Funny thing is, I do remember pieces of a previous chapter. I remember the party scene—the guy without the sarong, the two Daves. I remember another childhood flashback too, to an unpleasant family dinner scene. (Something with a fire? Or was that another story?)

The writing style here is beautiful and is really a pleasure to read. It's the content I worry about, and worry big time. Just what's the purpose of this chapter? Does anything happen in it, and if so, what? How is it supposed to advance the story, and just what is the story again? Because I really don’t see much going on here outside of the narrator's mind.

Brie (I assume that's the narrator?) comes home and wonders about her relationship with Ness. There's the flashback to this confusing party, where something happens with some pictures. I guess they're pictures of Amelia, who's Brie's former lover. There's another flashback to Brie's childhood, showing what a bitch her mother was, showing us her parallel to Ameilia.

So where does this get us? Just what is this story about? As I recall, the other chapter was similar. There was a party scene, and a flashback to her childhood. What I don't recall is any narrative thrust to the story, a sense of it making progress or moving forward. It almost seems like we're just getting great piles of flashback and rumination. Or is that the whole point?

So that's my primary concern, that it's all too internalized and subjective. There's nothing objective going on, no story. It's all just a study of Brie's interior landscape, her thoughts and feelings as she looks around her and muses. It feels very static. I was kind of hoping someone would do something, but we seem to be in a story where people just think about things.

My other impression is – and this is kind of awkward to say – that there's something weird about hearing a domme complain about being a domme, as if she's had a hard day at the office and just wants to hang up her whips and nipple clamps and watch American Idol. Apparently she's not really a Domme. She just "plays" one for her customers. It doesn't make me very sympathetic towards her and her problem with Ness. It just seems very weird to see a Domme making a play for our sympathy because of how hard she has it.

But as I say, the writing in here is really delicious. I love the thing with the smells at the start – the furniture polish and cranberry. With that and the candle light, I can form a perfect image of the place. (I have a question though. She mentions "slicing the stem of the glass between her fingers." Is that a typo? Or an expression for gripping the glass at the stem? It struck me as odd.)

I also liked her analysis of the situation with Ness, even though she won’t get any sympathy from me. If playing the domme is so exhausting, she should find another line of work.

That scene ends with a paean to Amelia again, and we go to the party flashback. Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't the same thing happen in a previous chapter, where some present-day scene led to thoughts of Amelia which led to that party flashback?

The party – always a problem. How to keep these people straight, and do we even need to keep them straight, or are all those characters there just to give it a party feel? I've always found parties difficult to write, and the best way to handle them seems to be to focus on the important characters, and make everyone else part of the faceless crowd. Otherwise the important facts get lost in a sea of meaningless detail and we don't know what we're supposed to be seeing. I think that's what happens here. Someone's taking pictures, I know that much.

Okay, reading it a third time I see what's going on. Brie's there with Amelia who's doing some la dolce vita thing in a fountain. But should it really take 3 readings?

You’re right. Brie comes across here as emotionally dead. That's why it's so hard to tell what's happening in this scene. I really think you need to focus in on Brie's reaction to make Amelia's actions stand out from all the rest of the stuff that's going on, whoever's giving head to one of the Daves, for example.

Where are they, by the way? I assumed they were inside (don't know why), but then someone lies down on the grass. Is it daytime? Night time?

Then the childhood flashback. Okay, mother's a bitch. What can you say? Didn't we have proof of this in another chapter. What's the point here? I like the fact that Brie sees Amelia as similar to her mother – both selfish, I guess. That's a nice insight, but I seem to recall we had another scene of dinnertime fanily dysfinctionalism in an earlier chapter.

I think you've got some really good stuff in here Charley, but I don’t get a sense that you quite know where you're going with it or what you want it to do. It's meandering, and starting to give off a feeling of exhaustion. I feel like Brie's exhausted, beat, wiped out. Someone's got to do something here, bust a move, if you will—move out of the past and the present and into the future. Is it going to happen?

 

[CharleyH]

Always a pleasure to read you. You force me to think up to your level and manage to pull it off without making me feel inadequate. I'll respond in reverse order.

iv) Any other overall impressions are welcome.
It's a different voice. By accident or design I'm not entirely certain. Could be either, there's change coming in each retold incident. Weariness, Brie's. Yours?

iii) Do I give away too much information here?
No. Much helps to clarify what has shaped her character, though the incident with Mother offers less than I'd have been prepared to read.

ii) Is this chapter too mediocre compared to what you have read? I feel the tone, the elaborateness of previous chapters is missing some how, but can't pinpoint it, or maybe something else. What do you think and if so how?
The piece lacks the timbre of the previous chapters, I have the impression this chapter is either heavily edited or a filler to move the story to where you want it to be. This is a 'winding up' of many events in Brie's life, past and current. The elaboration is there, but not necessarily where I want it. The Amelia scene tries to repeat the success of the first chapter party - and falls short in my opinion, tripping on the reflective mood of the rest of the chapter and failing to capture entirely Brie's mood of the moment.

i) I am fighting with myself on chapter 3. On one hand, I am worried that Brie's almost arrogant tone of voice in Chapters 1 and 2 have changed here. I wonder if she is too 'feeling' at this moment. Does the tone of this chapter suit the previous one or two? If she is too feeling, should I wait a bit longer, hold the reader in a sort of suspense and keep her distant from her emotion/self for now.
Here's the nub of it, which is really why I worked the questions backwards. You may have fallen between two stools (what an unpleasant cliche that is). You clearly have to let the emotional Brie loose at some point but you desire to tease your readership for longer. If she were 'more angry' with herself, Ness, Amelia, Mother you might find a way to bridge the divide. I'm not convinced it works as currently written, she is neither the one or the other.

Don't know how that might help, just my thoughts.

Will

Your thoughts always help Will, they make me think from a new angle, and as always, thank you for your perspective.

This chapter does exist to both tie up lose ends from chapter one, therefore the parallel, and also to get to the bulk of the story, which I am excited about. (I will answer to more to this and perhaps to anger in response to Dr.M.

Perhaps a problem with the narrative voice is my lack of time to actually write it. I was worried about this because I spent a considerable amount of time on the first two chapters. I have found it difficult, being spent after a long day, to get "into character" so to speak. We all have intriguing ways of writing, and for me, as an aside, in order to be consistent in character I do two things: 1) I pick a song and have it playing repetitively through a chapter and 2) I do an authorial Stanislavsky trick, which is easier to method when you have ten free hours a day than when you only have two. I was worried about this change and am happy that you point out the timbre.

Still, I need to thrust the story along, and can't tolerate mediocre, so you are helping me in many more ways than perhaps you realise because I'm in love with the first two chapters that I have written. I am happy with parts of this chapter as well, but perhaps it's time to get the murderous editor in me out because the voice is different by pure accident. Thank you for the observation. I do know what you mean.

I know the exact moment when the emotional Brie will surface and it will be a fight, but it is not yet, and so I must look back over this chapter and consider all you have said.

Thanks again, Will.

Tracy

 

[CharleyH]

Hey! I gave you two options of questions! lol As I remember stories I comment on, I was certain that some of you might remember key things from a year ago, but offered two sets just in case.. Also, a few have read chapter 2, so I needed to give the option to them as well.

As always Doc you give me many challenges and quite a bit to reflect on, and I will need time to reflect on most of what you have said before responding. However, I know we are much different authors and have very different views on BDSM, so I did want to comment in regards to one of your statements at this moment, and until I can respond more thoroughly later.

My other impression is – and this is kind of awkward to say – that there's something weird about hearing a Domme complain about being a Domme, as if she's had a hard day at the office and just wants to hang up her whips and nipple clamps and watch American Idol.

Awkward or not, it makes an interesting discussion.

Brie does not complain about her job, she complains about a top from the bottom submissive that doesn't have enough respect for her after a day of work, and she can't be bothered to even reprimand him with anything other than silence. I am not trying to play a fantasy in this story, but rather a reality.

Being a Dominatrix is a job, and I have never known a female that wanted to go home and continue domming, just as I have stripper friends that can't stand dancing unless they are getting paid, those in porn that don't want to fuck after 10 hours of being fucked, or even any of us that wanted to go home and do the exact same thing we do day after day, after day.

If one thinks of their own life, unless there is passion for their employment, does one want, at the end of the day, to go home and do it again? I think that's a difference between the fantasy and reality Domme. Maybe male Doms have a different perspective in this respect?

Brie is happy to have a glass of wine and indulge his fetishes, but hardly happy to be thrown back into work. I am VERY interested in why you think a dominatrix wouldn't want to simply relax after a day of work?

 

[oOScarletWingsOo]

1) Does this chapter reflect a woman trying to figure out her role in life?

I'm not reading something at that level -- maybe more displeasure with her current situation. Boredom.

2) Does Brie seem too submissive particularly in her dealings with Amelia, or just emotionless?

Brie? Brie is the main character/narrator correct? From what's here I don't have much to go on to state my impressions. I'd need more. I don't read "submissive" maybe more indifferent/frustrated/lackadaisical?

3) What are the major questions or perhaps curiosities you have at the end of this chapter?

My first question is where is the rest? Is this just a portion of one chapter? I'm not seeing where the story is going. Maybe it's because the flashback is in the middle of the action? because my main focus is on how she will deal with Ness and how that effects her daily life after her working life is over. I guess since I haven't read 1 and 2 I don't know what the significance of the flashbacks are.

4) Otherwise, just your overall impression of the chapter, knowing there are two previous ones and more to follow.

My impression is that I may need to read the first two to understand this one. What is here doesn't give me much as far as the meat of the story. I feel like there is more that needs to be told.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I am VERY interested in why you think a dominatrix wouldn't want to simply relax after a day of work?

Oh, I'm sure she might want to relax. But in that case she'd just tell Ness to get lost, or tell him to give her a massage, or clean the bathroom, or go do something else if she doesn't want to deal with him. She's going to take command of the situation. It's her nature, isn't it?

But the truth is, I'm basing my opinions on what I know of male doms. I really don't know any Dommes, so I don't know how they operate. I assumed their "domminess" was a personality trait, not something you turn on and off. Maybe it doesn't work like that for women?

But if she doesn't want to domme when she gets home at night, why does she have this sub living with her? The picture you paint is not one of a woman and the man she loves as an equal, but of a domme and her punk. And if that's the relationship, then why shouldn't she just take control?

On the other hand, if you're trying to portray a woman who's unsure of who she is, then it makes sense maybe. Domming has just become a job to her, like driving a cab or waiting tables, and she's tired of it. Is that what you were trying to convey?

Edited to add: Okay, I just went back and read the scene again, and she does say that she doesn't want to have to come home and have to "play a role", which suggests that her domminess is not something that comes natural to her.

I just didn't know this is how it is for women. I thought dommes were like male doms.

 

[wishfulthinking]

Re: Dominatrix

I guess I'll have to read the previous chapters to find out what her actual day job is.

I didn't pick her for a dominatrix. I assumed her job required her to make the decisions - and that she didn't always want to be the decisionmaker. Dominant perhaps - but from an inner strength to take charge, not a domme.

Re: flashbacks

I thought it was 3 chunks from a story. Sorry I could see how they sought of related, but not how they flowed on into each other. It was too abrupt.

Cheers, WT

 

[Penelope Street]

i) I am fighting with myself on chapter 3. On one hand, I am worried that Brie's almost arrogant tone of voice in Chapters 1 and 2 have changed here. I wonder if she is too 'feeling' at this moment. Does the tone of this chapter suit the previous one or two? If she is too feeling, should I wait a bit longer, hold the reader in a sort of suspense and keep her distant from her emotion/self for now.
I didn't notice the change of tone, but now that you mention it, I guess you're right. However, if you planned on making this change anyway, what's wrong with now?

ii) Is this chapter too mediocre compared to what you have read? I feel the tone, the elaborateness of previous chapters is missing some how, but can't pinpoint it, or maybe something else. What do you think and if so how?
Is this one maybe less detailed? Or maybe it's simply shorter. So far, I've found the opening scene the most gripping. After that it's like the story is ever so slowly losing momentum. I'm not sure why. *shrugs* Maybe it's just the long break in between reading the pieces.

iii) Do I give away too much information here?
That depends on what you have in mind.

iv) Any other overall impressions are welcome.

I started reading chapter one again and recognized it at once, especially the fire/spanking scene. The party scene I had all but forgotten. I find the entire Amelia thread really boring and I don't particularly care if there are Daves with two parties or parties with two Daves or Daves with no party.

Normally I don't care for interwoven threads any more than I like multiple Daves, but so far you're handling it better than most. Still I have to wonder if there's one thread too many. Or maybe it's just one thread I don't care for. Regardless, it's still much much much better than a summary history lesson.

I did find Brie more approachable in this chapter. Before I thought she was trying to use her mother as an excuse to be a bitch. A valid excuse perhaps, but it made her interesting, not sympathetic.

Why is it called 'The Making of Mistress'? Seems to me the way it's going, it may be the unmaking of a mistress. Plus, doesn't Brie dislike the term 'Mistress'? Or is that the point?

Whether this chapter is a success depends on what you have in mind. I am still curious how you intend to tie in this line from chapter one: Perhaps it was that moment where I learned how to love.

Hope some of that helps.

Take Care,
Penny

Added:

I like the twist that Brie may not really enjoy being a domme. Really, if the story is only about how she became a domme, isn't it already over? Even so, I'm having a hard time believing she doesn't want a nice foot rub when she gets home after a long day at the 'office', but if not, I'm with Doc- why doesn't she just tell Ness to go scrub the toilet?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

No greater love hath any man… I just went back and read Chapters 1 and 2 because I respect you so much and I wanted to see what I was missing. I'd read 1 before. I'd never seen 2 before.

Fuck, you’re good, Charley. You're really good.

Or is your cooking, like those half-washed dishes, a combination of luxury and filth?

That was beautiful, love. Really fine. One of the things that makes porn worth reading.

So okay— After Chapter 2 I better understand Brie's domminess. It is a role, a role that arises from her personality and experiences, but a role nonetheless. I misunderstood, and so I withdraw my comments about her dealings with Ness in Chapter 3. She's obviously a woman who takes little or no personal pleasure from her job as a dominatrix, and so it's quite right that she might come home and just want to put it all behind her for the night. Domming isn't her. It's just something she happens to do well.

But then, just who is she? By Chapter 3, isn't it time we started finding out? She had an cold and angry mother, a flirty and manipulative lover (Amelia), and now has a submissive boytoy. But she doesn't seem happy with any of this, and she's starting to look like a woman who isn't actively engaged in her life at all, just an observer.

That's why Chapter 3 is disappointing, I think. It's time to get the show on the road and for Brie to become a participant in this story, not just an observer. Just what is it she wants? What is she going to do to try and get it? Or is she going to continue to let herself be defined by the people around her?

One of the things that struck me is this: obviously her domme leanings come from her mother. It would be nice to see how she channels those feelings and uses them against her client. I know that Brie's a pro, but still, it's kind of disconcerting to see her so emotionally absent from what she's doing with that woman. I don’t want to go pop-psych, but wouldn't there be some transference, with Brie playing her mother now and the client being young Brie? Or, more likely, her playing herself and the client being her mother? It would be nice to get some feel of the emotions she might bring to that session, her reactions at having this ostensibly powerful woman under her whip. Is it anger, contempt, sympathy? It would help tie her past to her present.

You asked if this chapter was weak compard to the others. Yes, I think so. I don’t see anything new presented here, anything we haven't seen before. That's why it gives the feeling of your having lost your way. We understand the situation of Brie's life from the first two chapters. Now we're wondering what she's going to do about it.

As for Brie's being cold or worrying about her being insufficiently in control, I think that's what I'm hoping for, that she will stop being so frosty and controlled. I know she's a hard case. That's been established. But hard cases just aren't very interesting after awhile. I'd rather see her open up and show something. She needs to put it on the line.

 

[CharleyH]

… good, Charley.

Humbly, thank you.

Jesus, between your first response and this one, I have much MUCH more to consider. You raised some excellent issues in your first post, but I'll stick to responding to this one since you're coming at it from a new perspective.

But then, just who is she? By Chapter 3, isn't it time we started finding out? … It's time to get the show on the road and for Brie to become a participant in this story, not just an observer. Just what is it she wants? What is she going to do to try and get it? Or is she going to continue to let herself be defined by the people around her?

You and others are quite right on this point, dammit. The motivation is her eventual discovery and self-definition in the end, (hence the tentative title Penny, as was suggested, I believe by Shanglan in the first SDC) as well as the subplot with her mother. I'm trying too hard to tie up loose ends, particularly with Amelia, when, quite frankly, its merely an anecdote and does not need to be tied up. Simply, Amelia is important in illustrating one thing, but she is not pivotal and I'm seeing this more clearly as I read through suggestions here.

That's why Chapter 3 is disappointing, I think.
One of the things that struck me is this: obviously her domme leanings come from her mother. It would be nice to see how she channels those feelings and uses them against her client. I know that Brie's a pro, but still, it's kind of disconcerting to see her so emotionally absent from what she's doing with that woman. I don’t want to go pop-psych, but wouldn't there be some transference, with Brie playing her mother now and the client being young Brie? Or, more likely, her playing herself and the client being her mother?

Fascinating observation. I suppose there's a touch of that incestual thought in Chapter Two, maybe it needs an injection more. I will definitely keep this in mind.

It would help tie her past to her present.

I think this is a perfect idea, and that way I can discard Amelia in chapter three, except for perhaps a mention. I definitely need to use the client more toward this purpose, since in Chapter One and Two, I emphasis the "uniqueness" of the client. Definitely, definitely you are right.

You asked if this chapter was weak compared to the others. Yes, I think so. I don’t see anything new presented here, anything we haven't seen before. That's why it gives the feeling of your having lost your way. We understand the situation of Brie's life from the first two chapters. Now we're wondering what she's going to do about it.

Again, I see your point and very clearly. I need to move thing up a notch, get to New York a bit faster, since that's where she finds herself. You have no idea how much you've helped (and others as well). Thank you.

 

[CharleyH]

1) Does this chapter reflect a woman trying to figure out her role in life?

I'm not reading something at that level -- maybe more displeasure with her current situation. Boredom.

2) Does Brie seem too submissive particularly in her dealings with Amelia, or just emotionless?

Brie? Brie is the main character/narrator correct? From what's here I don't have much to go on to state my impressions. I'd need more. I don't read "submissive" maybe more indifferent/frustrated/lackadaisical?

3) What are the major questions or perhaps curiosities you have at the end of this chapter?

My first question is where is the rest? Is this just a portion of one chapter? I'm not seeing where the story is going. Maybe it's because the flashback is in the middle of the action? because my main focus is on how she will deal with Ness and how that effects her daily life after her working life is over. I guess since I haven't read 1 and 2 I don't know what the significance of the flashbacks are.

4) Otherwise, just your overall impression of the chapter, knowing there are two previous ones and more to follow.

My impression is that I may need to read the first two to understand this one. What is here doesn't give me much as far as the meat of the story. I feel like there is more that needs to be told.

Thank you, OS Wings. One thing she could never be is bored so I will consider this most carefully.

 

[CharleyH]

Hope some of that helps.

Take Care,
Penny

Added:

I like the twist that Brie may not really enjoy being a domme. Really, if the story is only about how she became a domme, isn't it already over? Even so, I'm having a hard time believing she doesn't want a nice foot rub when she gets home after a long day at the 'office', but if not, I'm with Doc- why doesn't she just tell Ness to go scrub the toilet?

Always, everything helps, Penny. I think I answered to some of your response in my reply to Dr. M.

I am most curious about your add. Good lord, I should know my own story like the back of my hand since I've read it only, like a thousand times, lol, so on recall, without referring to it and as an aside, the foot massage, she states "it's hard not to indulge his fetishes, especially after a long day at work" so ... you can believe it!

What I am curious about is why you see the possibility of Brie not enjoying being a Domme as a twist? I ask only because I don't see it as a twist, but am fascinated to hear your opinion on it.

 

[Penelope Street]

What I am curious about is why you see the possibility of Brie not enjoying being a Domme as a twist? I ask only because I don't see it as a twist, but am fascinated to hear your opinion on it.

By twist I mean going against the formula, not as in a plot twist.

 

[CharleyH]

Thank you Penny, Neon, Wishful, OScarlett and especially, and specially Doc. Your suggestions have totally cleared my head. After reading all, I had a total revelation, slit the Amelia scene and threw parts into chapter one, with bits of clarity, added a touch about Mother in Chapter 2, which makes it stronger, and turned this chapter into a D/s S/d power struggle between Brie and Ness with the same start and same end, but more action and meat and explaination through dialogue and action in between. THANK YOU ALL! You were just what I needed. It means the world and I'm very - VERY excited to progress.

 

[Pure]

bump!

 

[CharleyH]

bump!

Thanks Pure ... I got what I needed and wanted from those who posted.

 

[CharleyH]

REWORKED CHAPTER 3 and a paragraph or three

I don't mean to get in Penny's way, (I think she had the latest SDC, but will double check the date on that and bump whomever is in que in a selfish hour ). I want to thank EVERYONE who posted on my original version of Chapter 3. It sucked shit - lol - so thank you for saying so!

In which case, I re-wrote and re-wrote and re-wrote again keeping certain things and being more pointed on other's. For those following and who wish to post any further comments (hoping and not meaning to infringe on other works in progress, and in which case you can always PM) I had added a line about Brie's nickname in Chapter 2, so no worries on the Moth's address in this chapter. I am also adding my first three paragraphs from Chapter 4 as well. It's not much, but I just wanted to see any reaction to the start of the chapter and whether (for those following my progress) it suits Brie (YES Wishful, I will change the spelling of her name eventually - lol ).

Thanks again all!

Chapter 3 words: 1.047

The condo was darkly lit when I arrived home. Ness had been busy. I could smell a hint of furniture polish underneath the cranberry aroma from the diffuser. Candles were lit around the living area and, the moment I walked in, Ness stood and poured me a glass of Languedoc.

It should have been romantic, but instead the room gave off a blend of natural and unnatural scents. It seemed streaked with blackness and what little light there was seemed more like shards.

"Madame," he handed me the glass.

I cringed at the same address that I had heard all night at work, and sliced my index and forefingers against the stem, gripping the bottom of the wine glass with my fingers. The last thing I wanted was to come home and work.

"Don't do that, please." I was polite but stern, trying to give off a more passive-aggressive than dominant tone to dissuade him.

"What?" He seemed confused, but I knew he wasn’t.

"For God’s sake, I just got home from work," I said with a fake laugh shaking my head and then I moved toward the stereo. Coming home to Ness after working had become like stepping onto another stage, yet the role he wanted me to play never changed from day to day, even if I did. In a way he was like a child wanting to watch the same video over and over again and by enabling him I facilitated my own boredom. I needed to end the relationship and needed to find a gentle way to tell him.


* * *

"There is something I want to tell you girls," my Mother stated.

I knew there had been something. Every bone in my twelve-year-old body could feel it. She would never have raised her arm around Dani otherwise, and she most certainly would not have allowed us the pleasure of music that we wanted to hear.

“Sit, madame,” she told me. I stood my ground. She patted the bed beside her, “madame,” she stated again.

Dani's eyes fixed on Mother, confused and uncertain. She instinctively grabbed the record jacket, and placed it behind her back.

"We won't play it again, Mom," she smiled, her eyes glassy.

I continued to stand, firmly waiting for Mother to tell us what she had planned.

"Oh, you can play the album as much as you like, mademoiselle." Mother swept her hand across Dani's face and then solidified her eyes to my defiant glare. “I will be leaving to Europe for the summer.”

Dani looked at me, and then grabbed Mother's hand. "We really don't need this music, Mom. It's not ours anyhow. I like Touchakowsky," she mispronounced.

"She's been planning this for a while," I stated as matter-of-factly as Mother had.

"I will be setting you up at a school called Benenden. You'll stay the summer in England with your guardians, and then I will be moving to New York on my return." She turned to Dani. "It's time you became independent young ladies."

"I don't like England, mommy," Dani said as she clung to Mother, who was getting increasingly uncomfortable with my sister's neediness.

"New York?" While I knew what she had planned, I hadn’t anticipated this, but I knew my geography and where the man she was dating lived. "It's him," spilled from my lips in a biting emotional candour. "It's Mr. Grosvenor."

Mother swept Dani from her lap, and stood. "There is... no discussion."

"I don't understand," Dani said looking at Mother.

"She's sending us away," I snapped. "She doesn't want us ruining her..." I looked at Mother as carefully intense as she stared at me. "She can't get fucked if we're around."

I had, in saying what I did, hoped for some burst of emotion, some form of anger, something real and passionate from her, but her lips merely rose into an unstartled smile. "Your reaction madame, indicates that your stay in England will probably be longer then I’d originally planned."

Dani looked confused, her eyes welling, staring at me as if my words were willing Mother to send us away for longer. I could feel the sting of my sister’s hate in that moment, but I knew that the words my Mother spoke were lies. I knew she had intended to send us there until we were ready for University. I knew because I had seen the formal offer, and the invoices, paid in advance, on her desk in her study.

* * *

"I want to service you, Madame," he pushed again.

"You're not one of my clients, Ness. Why don’t you pretend to be a lover for a change?”

There was a silence as I walked to the stereo.

“When I was cleaning today…” he started and trailed off.

I turned on the CD player. A blues album from the Decca years started, but I quickly shoved in something from Depeche Mode to ruin any sort of ambient atmosphere. Master and Servant didn’t help and I searched through the CD’s to change it, momentarily forgetting about whatever he was trying to say.

“I found something,” he said and I knew right away.

“All the condo magazines?” I said nonchalantly, threw in a few mixed MP3’s and then programmed the player for random play.

“Yes.”

I half smiled and moved toward the sofa. “ I’m tired of packing and unpacking my life in a hotel room when I go to New York. I want a home.”

As soon as I sunk into the sofa and even before I could raise the wine to my lips, Ness picked up my foot and removed my sock. He pressed his nose to my toes, breathing in what must have been the smell of leather, then brushed his cheek against the ball of my foot. Before I met him, I probably wouldn’t have felt the bristles, but he attended my feet regularly and the roughness of his facial hair almost tickled now. He kissed each of my toes separately, inhaled one and then one last scent into his nostrils, before pressing his warm fingers gingerly into my arch. I moaned. It was hard not to enjoy or to indulge his fetishes, particularly his foot fetish after a long evening at work, but all I really wanted was to come home and be myself and no matter how much I enjoyed his touch, I still felt as if I were someone else.

I removed my foot from his touch. “In fact, I want to move there permanently,” I stated.

Just then, the phone rang. On the first ring, I thought he might get up to get it, but he didn't. On the second ring I almost told him to answer it, but by the third ring, I decided it was time to get up and get it myself.

"Hello?" I asked, staring back at Ness who did not move from his knees.

"Brie, it's Dani," my sister began, and then burst into tears. "It's mom..."

Chapter 4

There are a lot of good doctors in New York,” I said.

“I don’t think you understand Brie. She was diagnosed over a year ago. It metastasized into her bones.” Her breathing was laboured as she choked her tears. “She’s dying.”

Dani and I had a coral reef tank when we were young. I wasn’t adept at figuring out how to feed or clean the tank, or even add new things to it, but was fascinated and mesmerised looking through the glass at the mysterious underwater world. We had had goldfish at one point, but they seemed to die fairly quickly and the Siamese fighting fish, despite it’s beauty, really only circled in his bowl. The Saltwater aquarium was much more intriguing and reminded me of staring at the ebb and flow of fire.