Story Discussion: Aug 8, 2009 - "Let It Be" by Shel_Ashling

[Guest]

Hello!

My story for discussion is "Let It Be"

It's an 7500-ish word stand-alone story in the 'Lesbian' catagory mean to be somewhat sweet and romantic. If you start it and just aren't interested in going further, or dealing with long questions, then I totally understand, but I'd ask that you at least let me know where you stopped, and why. Please finish the story before proceeding to my questions in the next post.

'Let It Be'

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=431123

 

[Guest]

'Let It Be' was written with two general goals. First, I wanted to write something that was sweet and romantic, and I liked the idea of doing that in the 'Lesbian' genre as it's a very easy catagory for a male writer to give into the cliches of wild lesbian sex. It felt right to try to write against that archetype.

Secondly, I wanted to focus on really making the two main characters unique, not just in their personalities, but even in their voices. I felt too often in the past I did that Aaron Sorkin thing where every character spoke with the same voice (in his case and probably in my case that would be the author's voice). For example, as much as I enjoyed Sorkin's The West Wing, everyone spoke with the same voice, using long, complex, witty sentences, etc. Here I tried to let them speak as I thought they would speak.

So, the questions.

Does the story work as a sweet, somewhat romantic piece that manages to keep your attention despite a lack of hardcore sex? Did you enjoy it? What did you like best? Least?

Was I successful in creating two seperate personalities for the leads? One of the most difficult things for me as a writer is the seperation between what I see in my head and what you see in your head based on what I've put on paper. In my own headspace, I can clearly see two very different girls, both physically and in terms of personality. Did I manage to get that across successfully on paper?

In an attempt to give the two leads a different voice, I tried to give them each a different speaking rhythem, and different habits. For example, Zoey hesitates a lot more in her speaking (which is also reflective of her personality) and Carl has a much more foul mouth (again, also reflective of her personality). Was this noticable before I pointed it out, and did it achieve the goal of giving each girl a different voice?

Does the dialogue work in how it's written? I like to write naturalistic dialogue, complete with repeated phrases, run-on sentences, fragmented phrases and thoughts, etc. similar to how a real casual conversation usually works. However, often times my editors want to clean that up. I compromised here somewhat and made some changes, but I'm not sure how I feel about that. Is the more naturalistic dialogue a positive or a negative?

Did you buy the relationship between the two, and the attraction? And how they wound up together? Any notes that rang false to you?

Was I successful in relaying Zoey's closeted, not really dealt with lesbianism? I was never entirely comfortable that I wasn't clumsy with how I hinted at it throughout the story.

Was I able to capture your attention from the beginning? I know you're supposed to grab a reader with an opening, but at least to me the only bigger sin than a boring opening is an artificially showy one. Did I manage to at least interest you without resorting to parlor tricks?

Does the title, which ties in with the overall theme, make sense and work in the context of the story?

Lastly, what do I as an individual need most to work on as a writer? What are my strengths, but more importantly my weaknesses? I know that's difficult to answer from just one story, but to the best of your ability where do you think I most need to focus on improving myself?

Thanks a lot for your time and energy.

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[jacks4u]

Wow! What a story!

Thank you for sharing it with us, and for giving the opportunity to comment on it!

I'm a reader first, and author somewhere way down the list. I can hardly be considered an authority on writing, especially erotica.

That said, I found your story quite enjoyable.

Does the story work as a sweet, somewhat romantic piece that manages to keep your attention despite a lack of hardcore sex? Did you enjoy it? What did you like best? Least?
​

Being a straight male, I'm not sure what 'Romantic' means to a gay female, so I'm not sure how to answer that - my apologies.

As has been discussed here before, it certainly is possible to create an enjoyable erotic story, without completely focusing on the sex. I found your story enjoyably erotic, with the right amount and type of sex, given the characters, their personalities and past experiences.

I liked Carl's personality, her rough around the edges brashness, and willingness to speak her mind. I found this quote amusing - "What a coincidence, my dad's half Italian and half asshole."

There wasn't really any 'least liked' area - the whole story seemed to fit well together

Was I successful in creating two seperate personalities for the leads? ... Did I manage to get that across successfully on paper? ... Is the more naturalistic dialogue a positive or a negative?​

Most definitely. At times, I could tell who was speaking, by what was being said - two completely different personalities, each uniquely individual. I liked the style of dialog, and think it helped to further define the characters' personalities.

Did you buy the relationship between the two, and the attraction? And how they wound up together? Any notes that rang false to you?... Was I successful in relaying Zoey's closeted, not really dealt with lesbianism?​

That Carl was attracted to Zoey was evident fairly early in the story. It seemed to me that Zoey was fairly indifferent towards her own sexuality, until the end. I didn't really see Zoey in any sexual context, gay or straight, until they were in bed. I don't think that hurt your story in any way. If it hadn't been for your comments here and at the beginning of the story, the scene at the end would have taken me by surprise. Your story did not feel 'contrived' in the least, and to me, was totally believable, given the personalities of the two characters.

Was I able to capture your attention from the beginning?... Did I manage to at least interest you without resorting to parlor tricks?​

For me, the opening was good. I wanted to see what this 'painting music' stuff was all about. all in all, it captured my attention, and it relates directly to the title, and to parts further in the story - I think you succeeded in that respect.

Does the title... make sense and work in the context of the story?​

I think so. It's a good title.

Lastly, what do I as an individual need most to work on as a writer?​

Somehow, I feel totally unqualified to answer this question, and will defer to other, more accomplished writers


One last thought - Zoey reminds me so much of a girl I once hung out with. I knew she was gay, but wanted in her pants so bad. the real difference between her and Zoey was that my friend drank like a fish. Many nights I'd think I was going to get her drunk, and 'get lucky', but instead got a crick in my neck from passing out on her couch, and a massive headache the next day.

In all, Thanks again for the wonderful story.

 

[Penelope Street]

Hi Shel,

What a fun little story!

Does the story work as a sweet, somewhat romantic piece that manages to keep your attention despite a lack of hardcore sex?

Absolutely.

Did you enjoy it? What did you like best? Least?

Yes. The characterization and the dialogue are both superb. I wanted more tension, but since drama wasn't among your goals, it's not fair to say this is a shortcoming- though that won't keep me from mentioning it again

Was I successful in creating two separate personalities for the leads? ... Does the dialogue work in how it's written?

The answer to all your character related questions, especially the ones concerning dialogue, is a resounding "Yes!"

I even liked when you paraphrased a conversation, which usually drives me nuts: They made small talk after giving the waitress their order, chatting about classes and school until their food arrived.

I like to write naturalistic dialogue, complete with repeated phrases, run-on sentences, fragmented phrases and thoughts, etc. similar to how a real casual conversation usually works. However, often times my editors want to clean that up.

Gawd! Your characters are believable, sympathetic, and funny. What else can a reader want?! Ditch the editors, I say.

Did you buy the relationship between the two, and the attraction? And how they wound up together? Any notes that rang false to you?

I thought their attraction was primarily physical. Is this what you had in mind?

When Carl said she wanted to make Zoey orgasm, I wondered a bit, because it struck me like something a man would say- you know, focusing on the destination instead of the journey? But Carl has a bit of a masculine streak, doesn't she? So in retrospect, I guess it's ok.

Carl also seems confident at first, but I later had to wonder if this was a charade on her part. First, she doesn't appear to stand up for herself with her roommate regarding the Sasquatch Condom Incident. Ok, so maybe she's just being uberconsiderate, or maybe she just made that all up as an excuse to be with Zoey- but second, and far more important for me: Carl asks Zoey is it's ok to kiss her. Confidence is ever so sexy, and I so wanted her not to ask!

So did you mean for Carl's confidence to be superficial? The story works either way, I'm just curious what you intended.

Was I successful in relaying Zoey's closeted, not really dealt with lesbianism? I was never entirely comfortable that I wasn't clumsy with how I hinted at it throughout the story.

You many have overhinted a bit, but only a bit. I took Zoey's attempts to disguise her emotions to be civil caution, rather than disquiet. She seems totally comfortable with her sapphic inclinations. Though this dulled the suspense a little, I enjoyed a break from the first-time lesbian formula of the heroine questioning the validity of her awakening at every turn.

Was I able to capture your attention from the beginning? I know you're supposed to grab a reader with an opening, but at least to me the only bigger sin than a boring opening is an artificially showy one. Did I manage to at least interest you without resorting to parlor tricks?

The opening is fine. While minor, this did jar me: I wasn't sure who is the 'Her' in the third paragraph. I thought it should be Zoey, but I did have to read it twice, and still I wasn't certain. If my attention waned, it was in the middle after I realized the couple would get together without overcoming any impediments.

Does the title, which ties in with the overall theme, make sense and work in the context of the story?

I think you did a great job, though for personal reasons, the theme was a turn off of sorts. This has nothing to do with you and everything to do with my brother believing the cornerstones of cultural bliss to be the Beatles, Mustangs, and Star Trek. You were only one shy of the trifecta!

Lastly, what do I as an individual need most to work on as a writer?

Have the confidence to ignore editors who want to remove all the freshness from your character's. If your editors were cooks, I bet they'd want to turn asparagus into oatmeal!

What are my strengths, but more importantly my weaknesses? I know that's difficult to answer from just one story, but to the best of your ability where do you think I most need to focus on improving myself?

Your story met your intended goals, so I can't say it has any real weakness. I think it would be good if you added, "include gut ripping tension," to the set of goals for your next story.

On a really minor note, near the end of the erotic scene I noticed a few adverbs the story might have been stronger without.

Thanks a lot for your time and energy.

Thank you for sharing your story with us!

Take Care,
Penny

 

[Guest]

I have to say based on this one story that I saw no weaknesses although part of me wonders why write a story that isn't the typical guy lesbian fantasy. You did great but maybe strengthening you writing skill on stories you're comfortable writing.

When I have a chance I want to read more of your stories.

Thanks for all the compliments from you, and everyone else. I appreciate the kind words.

I came at it from the angle that it was a better exercise and challange to write something that was outside my comfort zone and area of expertise. It's a much bigger challange to try to write lesbians, something I'm not familiar with, and to write it in a different way than would be the typical fantasy. It seemed to me the best way to work on writing is to write what isn't familiar and what isn't done, than to write what is familiar how it's usually written.

If there's another train of thought thought on that though I'd love to hear it.

As for other stories you read, be forwarned; they tend to be a bit more graphic than this one.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the feedback from the three people that replied. I assume the quietness is due to it being the dog days of August, and not bad BO that nobody has told me about

I appreciate the feedback, and I'll try to pay it back by participating in future discussions.

 

[Penelope Street]

I assume the quietness is due to it being the dog days of August, and not bad BO that nobody has told me about

Hi Shel,

Some of the quietness probably has to do with summer, which is always on the slow side. Plus, since the three members who did respond had comparable reactions, other readers who had similar experiences may not have felt they had anything new to contribute.

Thanks again for sharing your fun little tale. If you stink, we'll let you know

Take Care,
Penny

 

[Tarakin]

I can only agree with Penny, I have nothing to add to the praise above. If there's a flaw in your story, I still have to find it

Oh, and I wrote my praise as a direct comment to your story, so others can see it also

 

[Keroin]

Shel - thanks for a terrific story! Well done.

I'd write out a long ramble but it would basically be, (almost word-for-word), what Penny said.

Opening was catchy but the "her" also threw me, just to punctuate that point.

What I enjoyed was Carl's description how she feels about men. To me, this captured it perfectly because, as a het woman, I would say the same thing in reverse.

Now I have to go read some of your other stuff...I'm just fine with "graphic", no worries .

 

[Teloz]

Shel, I've only just found this board or I would have replied before.

I'm not even going to answer your questions point by point, it's already been done above, probably much better than I could, so as far as I'm concerned your story is brilliant, a scintillating gem in a sea of dross. I just wish I could write as well as you! There is just one thing I'll throw onto the board though.

Carl, from your description appears to be a hardcore lesbian, yet she carries a vibrator, surely that makes her bi? I say this because one of my friends is definitely a hardcore lesbian, bless her little cotton socks, and swears that she and her friends of similar persuasion, 'do not seek penetration other than with tongue and fingers.' She says that if she wanted penetrative sex she would use the real thing rather than a plastic model.

If I'm wrong I'm sure there will be ladies on here who will correct me!

 

[Guest]

Shel, I've only just found this board or I would have replied before.

I'm not even going to answer your questions point by point, it's already been done above, probably much better than I could, so as far as I'm concerned your story is brilliant, a scintillating gem in a sea of dross. I just wish I could write as well as you! There is just one thing I'll throw onto the board though.

Carl, from your description appears to be a hardcore lesbian, yet she carries a vibrator, surely that makes her bi? I say this because one of my friends is definitely a hardcore lesbian, bless her little cotton socks, and swears that she and her friends of similar persuasion, 'do not seek penetration other than with tongue and fingers.' She says that if she wanted penetrative sex she would use the real thing rather than a plastic model.

If I'm wrong I'm sure there will be ladies on here who will correct me!

Of all the lesbians I've ever known or talked to about such things (one of my best friends is a lesbian and had tons of lesbian friends) I can't think of a single one who -didn't- use a vibrator. Plus, vibes aren't used just for penetration. They might well be used more often externally than internally actually.

More importantly though, sexual orientation has almost nothing to do with penetration. There are plenty of gay guys who don't do anal, and they're still gay. There are plenty of straight guys that have anal with women, or take a finger or something larger in the ass, and they're still straight. That is assuming you even want to apply straight/gay/bi lables to individuals, which is another whole massive discussion altogether

 

[CristinaRobo]

Does the story work as a sweet, somewhat romantic piece that manages to keep your attention despite a lack of hardcore sex? Did you enjoy it? What did you like best? Least?

Yes, it certainly did. It was so well written that I absolutely had to get to the end of it, even putting off something else that I needed to be doing. Often I'll get to the end of page one of a story and convince myself that I'll continue reading a bit later on. I couldn't do that here...enough said.

Was I successful in creating two seperate personalities for the leads? One of the most difficult things for me as a writer is the seperation between what I see in my head and what you see in your head based on what I've put on paper. In my own headspace, I can clearly see two very different girls, both physically and in terms of personality. Did I manage to get that across successfully on paper?

I felt that you did. The two girls definitely had their separation, but it was completely believable that they could find common ground. I did feel in the beginning that Carl came across a bit too boldly, but then I'm mid-40's and this may be a totally acceptable behavior pattern to 20-somethings.

In an attempt to give the two leads a different voice, I tried to give them each a different speaking rhythem, and different habits. For example, Zoey hesitates a lot more in her speaking (which is also reflective of her personality) and Carl has a much more foul mouth (again, also reflective of her personality). Was this noticable before I pointed it out, and did it achieve the goal of giving each girl a different voice?

It was noticeable. See my previous comment, I felt that Zoey had a "don't bother me" aura in the beginning but that she did have a willingness to at least give Carl a listen before writing her off. I had the impression that the girls came from entirely different financial backgrounds...more of a "one side of the tracks versus another" feeling.

Does the dialogue work in how it's written? I like to write naturalistic dialogue, complete with repeated phrases, run-on sentences, fragmented phrases and thoughts, etc. similar to how a real casual conversation usually works. However, often times my editors want to clean that up. I compromised here somewhat and made some changes, but I'm not sure how I feel about that. Is the more naturalistic dialogue a positive or a negative?

It seemed entirely natural to me, the way you would imagine the conversations to progress. I can't fault this one bit, I liked it!

Did you buy the relationship between the two, and the attraction? And how they wound up together? Any notes that rang false to you?

Maybe the wine thing. I can picture myself doing that. College kids, umm, not so much. Would beer have worked for you? The wine seemed much too cosmopolitan and for a moment it kind of jerked me out of the story a bit. But you didn't linger on it too much and I drifted back in. For me, the sign of a good story is "Can I picture myself in it?"

Was I successful in relaying Zoey's closeted, not really dealt with lesbianism? I was never entirely comfortable that I wasn't clumsy with how I hinted at it throughout the story.

This is the hardest part for me to comment on. I don't feel comfortable expressing an opinion without having some sort of personal experience with lesbian feelings. Maybe that's just me, sorry.

Was I able to capture your attention from the beginning? I know you're supposed to grab a reader with an opening, but at least to me the only bigger sin than a boring opening is an artificially showy one. Did I manage to at least interest you without resorting to parlor tricks?

Yes, right away. That is normally one way that I judge a story. I often find myself back-clicking to another thread if I can't "get into it" within just a couple of minutes. I had no problem here.

Does the title, which ties in with the overall theme, make sense and work in the context of the story?

It's funny, I had totally forgotten about the title until it came up in the story. Once that happened, it did make sense, yes. Before that, I guess you could have called the story by any different name, but in the end, I see the logic of doing what you did. Nice job!

Lastly, what do I as an individual need most to work on as a writer? What are my strengths, but more importantly my weaknesses? I know that's difficult to answer from just one story, but to the best of your ability where do you think I most need to focus on improving myself?

I am a novice at all this, so my opinions here are just how I feel and I have very little to offer in comparison by the fact that I have never commented on anyone else's story before, i.e. you have taken my virginity. I feel your strength was your ability to avoid overworked cliches. For me, the weakness was the ending. They slept. I don't know how to describe it, kind of like I was left off at the wrong bus stop, but still within easy walking distance of home. Not a big deal, but just a minor irritation. Like I was wanting the next chapter.

Over all I liked it a LOT! I have thought about trying to write my own story (again, a virgin here) and I feel that you have unwittingly mentored me a bit by giving me something to shoot for. I don't mean plagiarism, but simply a set of goals to strive for. I would want to keep the attention of my readers in the same way that you captured mine. Thanks!

Edited to add: I did find 3 or 4 typographical errors, but I'm sorry that I didn't make a mental note of their exact locations. Mostly they tended to be words that you had originally inserted, but probably decided to later change to a different term. In one case I noted that both words were still in there.


Cristina