Story Discussion: April 13, 2009 - "Curly" by Ellabee

[ellabee]

Hi, I'm Ellabee, a fairly new writer hoping to actually improve my writing...I've started with some simple stroker tales, but now I'm looking to get a little more complex in terms of plot and character development.

"Curly" is my first attempt at such a feat. It's a little long*, but it reads quickly. It's in a breezy, first-person style (oh no! I can already hear the groans...), a story of sexual tension that culminates rather nicely for our two protagonists.

Please do let me know what you think...I'm looking for commentary more along the lines of structured criticisms rather than "that wuz hawt...can i c ur boobz?" etc.

* Moderators Note:
The story is just over three Literotica pages, probably about 10,000 words.

 

[ellabee]

Here's the link...it's posted under "Erotic Couplings."

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=414376

 

[ellabee]

I'm looking for tangible feedback I can actually use in my next story. "Curly" may or may not be a work in progress, I haven't yet decided, but it SHOULD be a stand-alone story. I have no further plans for Max and Charlotte.

So along those lines...

1.) CONCLUSION. I've heard it's too weak, that it doesn't tell enough about the future of Max and Charlotte to actually be successful. What should a good erotic story's conclusion contain? How can I fix this one so it is more satisfying?

2.) WORD CHOICE. I use adverbs not-so-sparingly, and this has been commented on far more than I expected it to. If you find an adverb, any suggestions for replacing it?

3.) STYLE. First-person breezy dialog, nothing too heavy or deep. Does it work? Do you hate it? Is the flow too fast or too slow? Do you care?

4.) CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Are the characters believable? Do you hate Max? Do you hate Charlotte?

And, finally, if you do find any grammatical or otherwise errors, do not hesitate to let me know! I found a typo that should have been eliminated, as I think my first edit has gone through.

Thanks for your patience in advance in dealing with a new writer. I plan on sticking around a while, so anything you folks have to say is going to be extremely helpful.

<3 Ellabee

 

[PrincessErin]

.....

 

[ellabee]

Hi Erin,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Your comments and praise meant a lot to me, especially considering you're such an established Literotica author.

I agree with you about the conclusion. Honestly, I left it the way I did for a couple of reasons. First, I'm terrible at concluding anything at all, be it a Lit story or a paper or a job...not so good at closure.

And...the way I see Max and Charlotte ending...well, it's not good. Personally, I think Max and Charlotte will date for a while, perhaps until the end of the semester, and then he'll be tempted by a fiery redheaded freshman in his art courses...someone who is as "inspired" as he is, someone he doesn't have to work for. Because Charlotte comes out of her shell, but not totally...she'll never be able to drop all of her boundaries.

But that's my thoughts. This might sound odd, but I didn't want to impose my interpretation of it on my readers. The ending can be so crucial to a story, and even though it's not right, I'm often turned off by the whole work if I don't like one of the plot twists. It's not fair, but it is what it is.

I guess I didn't want my own interpretation to hinder the reader's. Some people like to think they'll live happily ever after, some think Max is still a (very hot and alluring) jerk. And choosing one way or another...well, would that isolate a reader?

But it could be a cop-out. It's definitely something to consider.

Thanks so much again!

<3 Ella

 

[Penelope Street]

Hi Ella,

Thank you for sharing your work with us. This is a great story to discuss because I can imagine so many different reactions.

CONCLUSION. I've heard it's too weak, that it doesn't tell enough about the future of Max and Charlotte to actually be successful. What should a good erotic story's conclusion contain? How can I fix this one so it is more satisfying?
Is either character changed by their experience? That's when the story is supposed to end, right? Charlotte isn't exactly in denial about what the future holds. She said it herself- he's an asshole and a poor choice for a boyfriend- but she loves him anyway. She has lust and love mixed up, but she's right about everything else.

WORD CHOICE. I use adverbs not-so-sparingly, and this has been commented on far more than I expected it to. If you find an adverb, any suggestions for replacing it?
Yeah- I noticed them too. What's wrong with the old standby- remove them all, using a stronger verb where appropriate?

STYLE. First-person breezy dialog, nothing too heavy or deep. Does it work? Do you hate it? Is the flow too fast or too slow? Do you care?
I enjoyed, and admired, Charlotte's voice, but I really didn't care about Charlotte. Did you mean to have five paragraphs in a row that start with 'I', and then five of six not long afterward? I also noticed her rivals are worthy of names, but her roommate is referred to in just that manner. I'm pretty sure Charlotte wants a roommate that's not a threat, even if she doesn’t realize it.

I don't know that the pace was too fast or too slow, but the drama was definitely on the light side for me. Charlotte and Max really don't have to overcome anything to be together, so this tale feels like a brief fling postponed for no real reason.

CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Are the characters believable? Do you hate Max? Do you hate Charlotte?
For me, they are developed and believable and then some! Am I supposed to hate them? Because I don't- but I don't like them either. The big question I have is whether you meant for the characters to be a pair of superficial players and, if so, why?

This next paragraph was a clever bit of writing if you meant to for me to imagine Charlotte as shallow and judgmental: I found a seat furthest away from the instructor at a long seminar table and sized up my peers. They were far from the genius I hoped to study this semester. A few were obviously only at college for the athletic scholarship alone. Others were definitely cheerleaders or sorority blondes already mooning over the D1 football "student" athletes. Two kids had glasses held together by tape. I rolled my eyes. So much for inquisitiveness and group discussion. This all led me to imagine Charlotte as a self-centered little snoot. All that's missing is to replace 'peers' with 'lessers'. Nothing she did or said later gave me any reason to change my opinion of her. By the time Charlotte picked her adjective, I had a few in mind other than idealistic.

Max is well done too. I think they deserve each other. For me, the only flaw in his characterization is that Max the player didn't play with Charlotte sooner. Why wouldn't he? No matter her apparent insecurities, she's clearly attractive, or he'd never have handed her that beer in the first place. He says he can't have her, but I never get that and don't see why he would either.

Here are a few pieces (in italics) I noticed while reading:

I found that brief opening scene to be both clunky and unnecessary, especially this snippet that struck me as truly awkward: my new roommate at my new college in my new state

You may be telling the reader just a little too much here and there, for instance:
I realized my mouth had fallen open a little and I was openly staring -- gawking -- at the beautiful person before me. I quickly closed my mouth and shook my head.
I liked this moment except for the section in bold.

A minor nit, how does Charlotte see this sitting where she does?:
The jocks and cheerleaders rolled their eyes.

I really liked this:
He began to doodle in his notebook. I watched intently as he sketched the outline of a face. He drew pinstraight hair, down to where the person's shoulders would be. He scratched out two almondish eyes, a slightly crooked nose, and a smile that seemed timid.

He drew me.
Except that last line- I kinda wanted to see her reaction when she recognizes herself, instead of just being told it's her, which I pretty much knew.

I had not had the time to brush my hair in the morning, and my chestnut locks were starting to curl in the humidity.What happened to the pinstraight hair Max drew?

What's with this line?Freshman year passed relatively uneventfully. How can speaking to a sex god everyday be uneventful? And watching him kiss other girls? That is so not uneventful!

I adored this little insight:
"Forget him!" she said. She had never liked Max, probably because he had never flirted with her. "You're hot. He's too conceited for his own good to notice. Move on."

I became a vegetarian and joined Hannah's peace group.


"I think that's code for being an ass." So nice! And so true.


"I thought you were in to girls with 'depth.'" Considering my opinion of Charlotte, this was worthy of a coffee spew!

Thanks again for sharing your story. Except for a few minor issues, it was totally believable. You certainly have the English skills and the imagination to create a tale involving vivid characters and your writing is effective- at least it was for me.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[Keroin]

Hi ellabee,

Good for you for posting your story on here - you brave girl. LOL. Since I have already offered some comments on another thread, I'll let the others chime in and then see if there's anything I can add.

I'm not a big fan of "how to" books when it comes to writing but I think everyone who wants to improve their writing should read On Writing by Stephen King. Even if you detest King's books, he has much valuable insight and advice for writers. I've probably read it at least four times and I get something new out of it every time. In particular, he demonstrates the importance of showing not telling and of active versus passive voice. A worthwhile read.

Also, one of the best pieces of advice I've ever received is - and this is in reference to Penelope's comment about not really caring about your lead characters - always, always, always, when writing a story, ask yourself, "Who cares?" There has to be a reason for the reader to care about the fate of your characters.

Ah, now I've rambled. Oops!

Cheers,
K

 

[ellabee]

Ah, Keroin, thanks for popping in again to check on me. I have thick skin, but have no reason to believe anybody on this thread would be rude in a non-good natured way. . We shall see! But so far, I'm quite pleased.

Thanks for your lengthy comments, Penelope. I really appreciated how you picked out the bits that disturbed you/irked you/annoyed you/pleased you.

Re: Charlotte's character development in relation to Max: I never thought of it that way! She does come off as a snooty little thing, doesn't she? I guess my (admittedly weak) (crap! the -ly!) defense of this is that Charlotte is, well, a lot like me, and Max is someone I know, so I think I left out a lot of the details because, to me, they seemed mundane or silly. In retrospect, a poor decision, as sometimes this makes people question the motives of the characters.

And as for "the roommate," this is also a real person who is actually foreign and I thought it weird to give her an American name (again, me putting in the details of my life that don't actually matter) but didn't want to throw in a random foreign name when we have Maxs and Hannahs and Charlottes and Katelynns running about. Saying something like "Priyani" or "Chun Ming" seemed odd and jarring. So I just called her "the roommate."

Not a defense of the decision, just a teeny explanation.

Thanks again!

 

[Penelope Street]

Since I have already offered some comments on another thread...

Here's the other thread:
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=648059

Thanks for your lengthy comments, Penelope. I really appreciated how you picked out the bits that disturbed you/irked you/annoyed you/pleased you.

You're welcome. I think it's worth noting that I wasn't irked or disturbed or annoyed by the story. I'm certainly not annoyed with Charlotte for pining over and pursuing Max- who hasn't wanted just once to be thrown onto a bed by a sex god? Mostly I was just wondering what it was you were trying to do with the story. Now that I understand a bit more, it makes sense how I connected the dots in a manner other than what you had in mind.

I guess my (admittedly weak) (crap! the -ly!) defense of this is that Charlotte is, well, a lot like me, and Max is someone I know, so I think I left out a lot of the details because, to me, they seemed mundane or silly.

I've seen this before, where 'real' characters end up being less real or open to unintended interpretations because the author knows them too well.

In retrospect, a poor decision, as sometimes this makes people question the motives of the characters.

If I'm the only one that thought Charlotte shallow, then maybe it's not an issue at all, let alone a poor decision. You can even take it as a compliment of sorts that I thought your writing strong enough that I believed all the subtleties to be intentional hints about Charlotte's personality.

And as for "the roommate," this is also a real person who is actually foreign and I thought it weird to give her an American name.

Since I thought this was an intentional omission, yeah, I guess it was an issue for me.

 

[Keroin]

I guess my (admittedly weak) (crap! the -ly!) defense of this is that Charlotte is, well, a lot like me, and Max is someone I know, so I think I left out a lot of the details because, to me, they seemed mundane or silly.

And as for "the roommate," this is also a real person who is actually foreign and I thought it weird to give her an American name (again, me putting in the details of my life that don't actually matter) but didn't want to throw in a random foreign name when we have Maxs and Hannahs and Charlottes and Katelynns running about. Saying something like "Priyani" or "Chun Ming" seemed odd and jarring. So I just called her "the roommate."

Not a defense of the decision, just a teeny explanation.

Ah, this is your bloodletting story, (AKA, autobiographical). The first one usually is. LOL.

As for the roommate, why would it matter if you gave her an American name? No one reading the story knows otherwise? But then, I think it could also be fun to keep her ethnic origin and play with it. Lots of potential there.

Here's the other thread:
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=648059

I've seen this before, where 'real' characters end up being less real or open to unintended interpretations because the author knows them too well.

Thanks for putting up the link, Penelope. I should have done that.

Good point. Part of the joy of creating characters is letting them surprise you, which is difficult when writing about a real person.

 

[Tarakin]

A very good story, Ella!

I enjoyed it very much and the sex scenes were really hot, even the toy-part, which I usually don't enjoy that much in other stories. You captured Charlotte and her uncertainty very good, she's believable and I kept hoping that she would reach her goal - even when that changed from 'get him' to 'better not, he's a poor boyfriend' and back to 'get him' again. She's dominated by lust from time to time (well, most of the featured time it seems ) and you described that very well.

A bit of criticism I've to add, though. Aside from the points already mentioned by others (missing roommate-name and straight hair in the sketch for instance) you have a bit too many superlatives. While I can see that Max is the best kisser (even with a capital THE) in Charlotte's eyes you also feature the tiniest girl and the tallest boy in your tale - that's a bit overdone.

Additionally, you write: '"I'm gonna cum!" I cried with relief and lust. And cum I did. The orgasm built quickly, overtaking all the sensations of Max (...)'. Each sentence is a new paragraph, which emphazises the middle sentence. This one is a bit too 'cool' in my opinion, she's over the top before and afterwards, but commenting rationally, even a bit ironic, between that. It put me a bit out of the moment, but luckily just for a short time, since you quickly pulled me back into the scene with your nice style.

A last critical thought: Don't overdo the puppy-thing. First Hannah has her puppy-moment on page two (which Char thinks is bad), then Max is the puppy on page two and three (and suddenly that's good). Reserve these looks for only one of them, or capitalize on the irony of that mood-change like you do on so many other moments.

All in all its a very good and hot story nonetheless. It reminds me of a very erotic Stephenie Meyers in certain parts (that's meant as a compliment!), I look forward to read more of yours!

Oh, and someone has to fullfill your expectations, and I'm honored to do that. So, with all necessary charm and style:

that wuz hawt...can i c ur boobz?

Hey, maybe it works!

 

[loganforester]

I'm looking for tangible feedback I can actually use in my next story. "Curly" may or may not be a work in progress, I haven't yet decided, but it SHOULD be a stand-alone story. I have no further plans for Max and Charlotte.

So along those lines...

1.) CONCLUSION. I've heard it's too weak, that it doesn't tell enough about the future of Max and Charlotte to actually be successful. What should a good erotic story's conclusion contain? How can I fix this one so it is more satisfying?

2.) WORD CHOICE. I use adverbs not-so-sparingly, and this has been commented on far more than I expected it to. If you find an adverb, any suggestions for replacing it?

3.) STYLE. First-person breezy dialog, nothing too heavy or deep. Does it work? Do you hate it? Is the flow too fast or too slow? Do you care?

4.) CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Are the characters believable? Do you hate Max? Do you hate Charlotte?

And, finally, if you do find any grammatical or otherwise errors, do not hesitate to let me know! I found a typo that should have been eliminated, as I think my first edit has gone through.

Thanks for your patience in advance in dealing with a new writer. I plan on sticking around a while, so anything you folks have to say is going to be extremely helpful.

<3 Ellabee

Hi Ellabee and thanks for sharing your story with us. It's especially difficult writing a story when it comes based on first-hand experience.

1) You really don't have a conclusion, it's merely a pause awaiting another chapter. There are so many loose ends left that it could go in a myriad of directions. If you really wanted it to be over in just this tale, something would have to be said or happen directly after the sex scene to let the reader know that their is a definative completion.

If you're planning a sequel the ending is perfect. If not, you have some work to do.


2) Your overuse of adverbs became distracting at times. Also the use of caps should be avoided. Their are other more subtle ways of expressing excitement and emphasis than resorting to CAPS. That comes across as telling the reader to pay attention instead of showing them what is happening in the scene and allowing them to draw their own conclusions about what is important.

As Penelope mentioned, the ideal way to eliminate adverbs is to strengthen the verb itself so that it doesn't require a modifier to be clear in it's meaning.

3) Never been a fan of first person, although I find it's more effective in erotica than in mainstream writing. The biggest problem I found with the style was the overuse of "I". In a couple different paragraphs every sentence begins the same way.

The other issue I had with the style was the use of overextended words such as "ohhhhhhhhhhhhh Gawddddddddddddddd". I've never been a fan of using this technique to make something appear erotic. A description of the characters thoughts and feeling or even a more succinct set of descriptive dialog is more to my liking.

The other thing I noticed was the complete absence of contractions. I imagine that's part of your style, I found it jarring at times, especially in dialog where I just can't fathom people speaking without using them.

4) I didn't either love or hate either of the main characters. I found them difficult to relate to. Charlotte came across as a mixed bag to me. She did seem to be a bit shallow as Penelope mentioned, but she also had a very innocent almost naive vibe to her in the way that she handled Max. It was clear she was completely smitten with him from the very beginning and was out of her league in dealing with him.

Max was portrayed for most of the story as the ultimate player or "Sex god" and was fairly consistent in that portrayal. I must say I didn't get the part where he says he can't have her. It was never clear what the barrier was? The other part where he broke character was at the very end when he seemed almost overwhelmed by the sex scene with Charlotte. For someone with that level of experience, having a reaction that strong seems unlikely.



Overall, the story had some strong points in addition to the critical elements I've already outlined. The plot was well drawn out and consistent. The pacing had a nice variety to it that kept the reader engaged in the story and yet not completely comfortable that they became bored with things.

The sex scenes were the focus of the story as far as I could tell and those scenes were well executed, with a few minor nitpicks I mentioned earlier. It has potential for a sequel and I think you intentionally left it very open-ended to accomadate that possibility.

Thanks for sharing your story and I hope my feedback was helpful. If you have any further questions or clarification on any of the points I made feel free to ask.

Logan

 

[CWatson]

1) I think I've got it. You're thinking of this story as just a stroke story, right?--it's just about getting Max and Char in bed together. Well, fair enough... But that's not how you executed it.

The build-up is protracted. Partially that's just because Lit's pages are so short; on other sites (ASSTR, SOL, wolfpub) the story would seem less long because it'd all be on two pages (or one!). And it's partially because you spent 700 or 1000 words setting up Max and Char as characters, and most online readers are conditioned to think that anything of such length is, by definition, character driven and not stroke. But partially it's because the build-up is protracted--you put in a lot more detail than necessary if the point is just for your characters to boff each other. And that's why The Reader is confused when you end it with cum instead of with character.

2) I didn't notice too many adverbs, but I also didn't pay a lot of attention, especially to the sex part. The truth is that I basically skip sex scenes, because writers rarely show their chops there. (The truth is that you can parrot sex: even if you happen to be a virgin, you can generate an original sex scene by just regurgitating what you've read from other stories. ...Not that I'd know about this from first-hand experience or anything, ha-ha.) If you're concerned, my advice would just be to open your original document and then do a Find for "ly". Any time you see it, try to change the word. Pretty simple.

3) I liked the dialogue. It rang true. I've edited for people whose dialogue is lopsided, and others who barely had any at all, but yours does exactly what good dialogue is supposed to do: not stick out at all, except for the bits when somebody's saying something funny.

4) The characters rang true for me as well. The fact that you spent so much time on them, of course, is part of the confusion as documented under Point #1. So, in this case, I actually have to suggest something completely outrageous: You should have less character development. If all you want is to get 'em in bed, then just get 'em in bed!

Despite all and sundry, though, I liked it a lot. And don't get us wrong, you're quite good. I mean, the fact that your main issue is too much characterization says loads about your talent; most writers would give their writing arm to have your problem.

 

[regularguynsac]

Here are my comments below. Great work overall.

1.) CONCLUSION - I think it ends more abruptly and with not as much information as you provide. It felt a little rushed.

2.) WORD CHOICE - My word choice critique is different than the others. Your character is a bit naive and almost virginal yet you use words like 'Snatch' that don't seem to fit that character's make up.

3.) STYLE - I liked this. Your style supported her character's makeup quite well. Her being nervous, worried about how she would be perceived. Her response to Max going down on her was brilliant. This is another point that highlights what I said above in Word Choice. In my mind, someone who calls her kitten (this would fit well) a Snatch isn't too worried about someone going down on her. Maybe it's just me.

4.) CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT - I liked the way you used the good and bad sides of the Characters, especially Max. Some writers will just highlight the good and you end up with an unbelievable character.

Over all. A Great job. You might want to consider continuing.

Sam

 

[ellabee]

Hello, all...

Thanks for responding. I haven't had time to post my thanks for everybody's replies (class and homework and my thesis and whatnot), but I appreciate everybody's careful read, especially on a story that's a little over 26 Microsoft Word pages.

Tarakin - you're the first to mention the "puppy" references, which I appreciated. I didn't realize that I had described both Max and Hannah that way (perfect match? ). My word choice is something I'm going to be extra mindful of next time.

Logan - Funny, I always thought writing a story with first-hand experience was easier. I mean, you know the characters, know how to manipulate their personalities, know how to make the plot realistic, etc. It's the stories in my head that never seem to go as well, at least in the writing process.

You mentioned a lack of contractions, which I found interesting. I was told by an editor on Lit once to never, ever use contractions unless it's within dialog...and if you notice, Charlotte, Max, and the gang of others use contractions when they would naturally appear.

CWatson - hmm. A stroke story? I don't know what I intended, honestly. The more I read discussions, the more I'm not really sure what ANYBODY'S writing. This was an erotic story, it featured sex, and it is meant to stimulate the reader sexually. I have an itty-bitty fan base (of approximately 10 men, ha) and I can't disappoint them - they like it hot. But it was supposed to be more than just hot sex - it was a story of how two people got there.

So tell me what that is! Nobody knows!

RegularGuy - I appreciated your comments on Charlotte's hesitation with her first oral sex experience. I was worried that wouldn't be taken well...when people are getting hot and heavy, nobody seems to comment on when it goes awry or gets awkward, especially in erotic literature (funnily enough, CWatson and I talked about this a wee bit in a PM). I'm glad it came out alright!

So THANKS AGAIN for your comments (oh, dear, CAPS. I feel my age comes out too much when I write). After reading all of the comments on the discussion, I think I will be adding a brief vignette after Max and Charlotte's coupling to wrap it up. I don't know if I can do a sequel...I've been working on a few other things, and normally when I do chapters I submit 'em all at once, tends to draw in the readership better.

 

[Keroin]

Logan - Funny, I always thought writing a story with first-hand experience was easier. I mean, you know the characters, know how to manipulate their personalities, know how to make the plot realistic, etc. It's the stories in my head that never seem to go as well, at least in the writing process.

You mentioned a lack of contractions, which I found interesting. I was told by an editor on Lit once to never, ever use contractions unless it's within dialog...and if you notice, Charlotte, Max, and the gang of others use contractions when they would naturally appear.

CWatson - hmm. A stroke story? I don't know what I intended, honestly. The more I read discussions, the more I'm not really sure what ANYBODY'S writing. This was an erotic story, it featured sex, and it is meant to stimulate the reader sexually. I have an itty-bitty fan base (of approximately 10 men, ha) and I can't disappoint them - they like it hot. But it was supposed to be more than just hot sex - it was a story of how two people got there.

So tell me what that is! Nobody knows!

So THANKS AGAIN for your comments (oh, dear, CAPS. I feel my age comes out too much when I write).

There is a difference, I think, between writing from first hand experience and using real people as characters in a fictional piece. I just avoid using real people at all because of possible legal problems.

You can use contractions outside of dialogue, depending on the tone of the story and the POV.

As for story vs stroke piece (or scene), I'll give a broad description of what a story is. A story begins with a definable inciting event - your protagonist loses her job, is kidnapped by aliens, finds out she has cancer, etc. That is the jumping off point for the character arc that makes up the middle of the story. The story should end with a conclusion that shows the change in the character as it relates to the inciting event. If this sounds too formulaic, it probably is, but it also works.

As an example, consider Dickens "A Christmas Carol" - I'm sure everyone is familiar with this one.

Inciting event: Scrooge, who has been shown as a nasty, greedy man, is visited by the ghost of his former friend and business partner. He is told he must change his ways or end up suffering for eternity.

Character arc: Over the course of the story, Scrooge is visited by three ghosts who show him the past, present and possible future. He starts to understand what he has become and why. He begins to feel remorse.

Ending: Scrooge awakes on Xmas day, a new man. His actions show love, compassion and generosity - exactly what he was told he lacked during the inciting event.

The point is that there is an arc. Your protagonist starts at point A and ends at point B and the middle of the story shows us why.

I would add that it's not enough for your protagonist to get to the end of the story and say, "Boy, I sure learned a lot, from now on I'll be completely different!" We have to see the change through their actions.

A scene, (which is what a stroke piece is), doesn't have to do any of that. Reader expectations of a scene are much different. In a stroke piece, a reader just wants "hawt" sex.

Avoid using all-caps in stories. Always. In casual, online correspondence, it's not that big of deal.

Cheers - K

 

[Penelope Street]

The other thing I noticed was the complete absence of contractions. I imagine that's part of your style, I found it jarring at times, especially in dialog where I just can't fathom people speaking without using them.

You mentioned a lack of contractions, which I found interesting. I was told by an editor on Lit once to never, ever use contractions unless it's within dialog...and if you notice, Charlotte, Max, and the gang of others use contractions when they would naturally appear.

While avoiding contractions might be a reasonable heuristic for third person prose, I can see how it could easily be counter-productive when trying to create an intimate first-person narrative. I also believe Logan was primarily addressing a lack of contractions within the dialog, and not so much the prose. That said, I liked Charlotte's voice and didn't notice any issues with contractions, or lack thereof.

I don't know what I intended, honestly.

Well, that does make it a little difficult to say whether or not you succeeded. I'm with CW in that I think it's a fine stroke story that maybe didn't need to be extended for your target audience to enjoy it.

 

[CWatson]

Keroin got it right on the head. =)

The thing about written erotica is that it can come with or without a plot. A "stroke story" doesn't have a plot; it is simply a graphic description of two characters bumping uglies, and exists for no other reason than to arouse and/or titillate. A story with plot, on the other hand, has the character begin at Point A, a point at which they are usually quite unsatisfied. (Happy people make for boring stories.) Over the course of the story they arrive at Point B, at which they are no longer unhappy; where Point B is depends on the story itself (sometimes the character gets what they wanted and has a happy ending; sometimes they get what they wanted only to discover it sucks!, and they're NOT happy there; sometimes they get what they wanted, discover it sucks, and go BACK to Point A, having realized that they were happy where they STARTED. I'm writing such a tale right now). But no matter what, the character undergoes some evolution and learns more about themselves.

Because you ended your story without character growth, and claimed that this is appropriate to the story, I assumed you were writing stroke. But now you're saying that it's also about the characters' evolution and how they changed. Fine; you can have stories about both. But which one's the center? If the story's just about Max and Char getting it on, then you have too much characterization up front. If it's about their growth, then you have too little at the end. Decide what it is you're trying to accomplish, and rewrite appropriately.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

I struggled a little to get through this one to be honest. It felt very long for a story about shy girl getting it on with hawt guy at university. Doesn't mean the story was bad, more that I don't fall in the target audience.

I agree with the other comments about stroke story vs story arc. Two pages of intro is too much for a stroke story, but it's not strong enough to run as a story either. I think that might explain some of the perceptions about the conclusions being a little weak. The story resolves with them getting together for the hot sex, but there's no real conflict to prevent this. Max comes across as a bit of a Lothario, so it's sort of inevitable he's going to get round to taking a turn with Charlotte.

From a story point of view, them ending up in bed together isn't particularly interesting. For a story the interesting part would be what happens next. Does he change and they live happily ever after? Does he cruelly cast her aside and force her to grow up a little beyond pretty boy worship? Or does she turn the tables on him and regard him as nothing more than her little sex toy?

This feels more like a setup for a story rather than a full story in its own right.

I didn't notice excessive adjectives, but that's probably because I use them too frequently myself . I did notice a bit of drag when I was reading though, often a sign of excess words somewhere.

The lecturer's dialogue was very annoying, but I guessed that was intentional.

The style seemed fine to me. Normally I think it would be fast enough, but there wasn't enough going on in the first couple of pages so I kind of got the impression of something spinning in mid air without any traction.

On the character side I think you nailed Charlotte down really well. First person is really good at showing the insides of someone's head and her crush on Max came out really strong.

I think the reason I struggled so much to read it is Max. I've seen enough real life Max's to know how the story goes. Girl gets dreamy eyed about class hunk. Class hunk screws girl. Girl goes crying to friends when class hunk discards girl to move onto next girl. The non-hunks all stand around scratching their heads wondering if the girls all have a congenital defect that blinds them to the obvious fact the hunk's a complete asshole

This meant I spent most of the story reading the puppy-love stuff and wanting to slap her round the face for being silly. I think this means I'm probably classed as a 'tough crowd'

I did like the style and presentation of the main character though. I'd like to see what you can do with a tauter length and more substantial story.

 

[Penelope Street]

I think the reason I struggled so much to read it is Max. I've seen enough real life Max's to know how the story goes. Girl gets dreamy eyed about class hunk. Class hunk screws girl. Girl goes crying to friends when class hunk discards girl to move onto next girl. The non-hunks all stand around scratching their heads wondering if the girls all have a congenital defect that blinds them to the obvious fact the hunk's a complete asshole

And how many of these non-hunks would trip over their own tongue for a chance with the class babe, even if she's a total bitch?

 

[loganforester]

And how many of these non-hunks would trip over their own tongue for a chance with the class babe, even if she's a total bitch?

I think it's safe to say it works both ways.

 

[Penelope Street]

I think it's safe to say it works both ways.

Exactly! I think Ella got both Charlotte and Max right in this regard and that's a big part of the reason why both characters feel so real.

What I still don't know is how attractive Charlotte really is- and I like that Ella left it up to us. Charlotte clearly has doubts, but who doesn't- and that includes Max. The only reason I can think of why he doesn't imagine he has a chance with her is that he thinks she's out of his league in the same way she thinks he's out of hers. Sure, we know she's got dreamy eyes for him- but what if he doesn't know it? If that's the case, should we view their tryst in a different light with respect to whether they are changed?

This is why I said this was such a great story to discuss; there are so many ways to interpret Charlotte's words.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

And how many of these non-hunks would trip over their own tongue for a chance with the class babe, even if she's a total bitch?

Absolutely

I agree with the follow-up on the characters. They do come across as real. I just felt I was reading part 1 rather than a self contained story though.

 

[ellabee]

Hey everyone!

Thanks for your feedback...I've edited Curly a bit and added substance to the ending. The corrections should be posted in a few days.

You guys were great! Thanks for all of your help!