Story Discussion: April 10, 2010 Deliverance: The OG Coven by Michael Mandrake

[srlmort]

Hi all,

The story is written under my pseudonym Michael Mandrake. It is 15K and is posted in my writing.com account because I felt that would be easier than here. There is very little sex in the first few chapters but then it heats up towards the end.

The genre is m/m paranormal. I am planning on writing a 2nd part but would like feedback on this one first.

It is a fantasy tale set in modern times but moves to a different world.

What I am looking for is honest critiques about the flow of the story. I am telling too much at the beginning? Are you compelled to read anymore after those first chapters?
Is my description of the characters believable?

Also for you grammar people, please point out glaring issues with commas, etc.

I plan to submit this along with a second part to make up a novella to a publisher.

Thanks very much for reading and hope you enjoy it!

http://www.writing.com/main/view_item/item_id/1663500-Deliverance-The-OG-Coven-Chapters-1-3
http://www.writing.com/main/view_item/item_id/1663502-Deliverance-The-OG-Coven-Chapters-4-6
http://www.writing.com/main/view_item/item_id/1663503-Deliverance-The-OG-Coven-Chapters-7-9
http://www.writing.com/main/view_item/item_id/1663508-Deliverance-The-OG-Coven-Chapters-10-12
http://www.writing.com/main/view_item/item_id/1663510-Deliverance-The-OG-Coven-Chapter-13

 

[sunandshadow]

I haven't critiqued anything in this forum before, but I figured it was only fair to participate in the critiquing since I wanted to get something of mine critiqued later.

I started reading this, but was having trouble sticking with it because I didn't find a reason to be sympathetic with the main character. He didn't really seem to have a problem he was concerned about, and he passively had things happen to him, he didn't get to take any action, at least during the first 4 chapters. So I think, if he ended up developing into a more interesting person over the course of the story, that interest needs to be worked back thorough the beginning. Or maybe start the story from the point of view of a different character who has an immediate problem - perhaps the one who pretends to be the fiancee, or the grandfather?

The second thing I found problematic was that I didn't get a strong sense of whether the main character was being deceived and getting himself into deep shit, or whether he was naturally 'demonic' and would be much more at home and happy in his new life. I'm not sure others would have had the same impression or seen this as a problem though.

 

[Guest]

I'm reading through it now.

Out of curiousity, were you born in the US or is English your second language? I ask because a lot of your sentence structure and style feels a bit ESL.

 

[srlmort]

Replies to comments

Hmm,

No I was born here in the US. The stories narrator is a Brit. I'm not sure it necessarily reads that way though.

Sun, thank you for reading but I'm not sure I understand the review of it. The essence of William Zephyr is that he is a selfish asshole. The whole theme is that he has to make a choice to be part of this "religion" or stay on earth and continue to be a normal human.

I did not paint him as a character you needed to feel sorry for. If he decides to make that choice, he will be taught those humanly characters that he is missing.

Still, that is the reason why I put it here to gain input. I'm glad that you read some of it. I know it needs work. If you are saying that I need to develop his character a little more, I get that. After reading again, I felt the same way.

Can you articulate your criticism a bit clearer? I'm a bit confused. I just want to understand it better.

Thanks

Hugs

 

[sunandshadow]

Even selfish assholes have to be interesting. If anything, they have to be MORE interesting than more pleasant characters, cause who wants to read about someone both unpleasant and boring? They need to have a problem they are attempting to solve, and the 'attempting' part should involve making plans and taking at least small actions. And since he doesn't by nature deserve this reward he seems to be getting, he should at least have to work for it - desire, planning, and effort can all make a character sympathetic even if they are a bad person.

 

[Amontillado]

Hey srlmort, I thought your story was very imaginative, especially the scene where the sword was plunged down the protagonist's throat. That's an interesting and fitting ritual for induction into a circle of dark warlocks.

There were some barriers that prevented me from really getting into the story though. First, your prose is kinda jarring in places; here are some examples of what gave me trouble.

Seemingly, I had no choice but I am grateful that I made the right one.

That's self-contradictory.

“Mmm” was the sound coming from my fiancée Laura, as we sat on the couch exploring each other’s mouths.

Overusing present participles is a common mistake new writers make, but you're also strangely contorting this sentence. You don't need to describe the character's dialogue as a sound that she is making; that's understood.

Just thinking of how our first night made my groin stir.

Take the "how" out.

I’ve had quite a bit of partners

You generally use "bit" for degree, not quantity. Should be "lot of partners."

Although her parents are not fond of my “past,”

It's not clear why you put that in quotes.

I am William Zephyr IV, son of William Zephyr, III. My father was a real estate tycoon, who owned just about everything. England’s version of Donald Trump, without all the baggage. Zephyr senior was quite sweet, unlike me, who was not as sweet.

You're jumping around between present and past tense here. If the father is still alive, you should describe him in the present tense. Also, considering that you told us the protagonist is named William Zephyr IV, do you really need to tell us that his father is William Zephyr III?


Next, I was surprised to see that you deliberately characterized the protagonist as a self-centered asshole. He even knows what an SOB he is, but he's too narcissistic to care. Guys like that are obnoxious; hence, reading about them is obnoxious.

You should be trying to sell your story to the reader. Trying to interest your reader and give him or her a reason to keep reading. Introducing a protagonist who is a privileged jerk with no personality or charm does the opposite.

And considering that the story never teaches him any lessons or gives him a reason to grow as a person, what's the point of making William such a jerk? I honestly don't get it, nor do I understand his anger at his father's affair, when he was planning to use his own wife to pop out a kid and then abandon her. At least the father was there for the mother during her illness, while William was off being a hedonistic warlock.

One last thing--you're taking a page out of J. K. Rowling's book with your spells, but whereas she uses Latin and other languages for her spell names, you're just using plain English in all caps. It reads kinda funny, especially when you're explaining what the spell does (for example: "Excited, I said the word BLAZE and caused a fire to appear in front of me. Before it could get out of hand, I said OUT, which meant to put it out").

But like I said, it was a very imaginative story, just try reading some of your passages out loud and listen to see whether they sound natural, and especially consider giving the protagonist more depth.

 

[Guest]

One issue that stands out and is rather self-contained is your method to denote the author's inner voice. You need to find a more elegant way to handle that than a note before the story: * Indicates William’s thoughts

Put them in italics on a separate line and trust the audience to figure it out, etc. Almost any method you can come up with is going to work better than providing your audience instructions on how to decifer your prose.

 

[srlmort]

Replies to comments

Thanks to all for your replies.

I'm glad you all took the time to read the tale and this lets me know there is a lot to work on.

Sun, I guess I understand your point now about William. He does need to have a goal in mind that needs to be stated. Maybe the description of his character is a bit much. Thanks

Amontillado, I appreciate your in depth critique. True I am still learning but tenses is something I thought I had a handle on. Still puzzles me to this day.

Not sure how I will explain the spells. I have not read Harry Potter to be honest. So I had no idea that was what was used.

Again, my description of William is overdone. Will work on that.

Shel, I'm not sure how I will tell the reader that William is thinking. Italics are a good way I guess.

Thanks again for all your honesty

 

[sunandshadow]

Not sure how I will explain the spells. I have not read Harry Potter to be honest. So I had no idea that was what was used.

One way to explain using a word to cast a spell is that the speaking the word doesn't actually do anything magical, it just helps the spellcaster's mind concentrate on what magic to do. The opposite approach is that language has power of its own, especially names (truenames), vows, and curses. In this case speaking the name of something, like Flame, calls it to the caster, summoning it into existence or from the nearest convenient source.

 

[Amontillado]

True I am still learning but tenses is something I thought I had a handle on. Still puzzles me to this day.

I agree that tenses can be a little complicated when you're writing first person using the past tense. In general, I think it's best to stay as consistent as possible, which means sticking to the past tense whenever you can.

For example, instead of saying, "Even though my future bride was a virgin, I’m far from it. I’ve had quite a bit of partners..." try "Even though my future bride was a virgin, I was far from it. I’d had quite a few partners..."

I think you can get away with that. Save the present tense for cases where using the past tense would imply something you don't necessarily want, such as when the character gives his name.

Where things get confusing for me is when you start off a paragraph using the present tense, and then shift into the past tense. For example:

I am William Zephyr IV, son of William Zephyr, III. My father was a real estate tycoon, who owned just about everything. England’s version of Donald Trump, without all the baggage. Zephyr senior was quite sweet, unlike me, who was not as sweet.

It sounds strange for the narrator to go from describing himself in the present tense to describing himself in the past tense; I might try going with present tense for the whole paragraph:

I am William Zephyr IV, son of a real estate tycoon who owns just about everything. England’s version of Donald Trump, without all the baggage. Zephyr senior is quite sweet, unlike me.

Another troublesome paragraph:

Besides that, my mom would like her son to give her a grandchild by his lovely wife. Therefore, to shut her up, I will impregnate this lovely maiden once and carry on about my business.

You switch between present and future tense there; but I don't see any reason why you couldn't use past tense:

Besides that, my mom wanted me to marry and give her a grandchild. To shut her up, I had decided to marry this lovely maiden, impregnate her, and carry on about my business.

I'm no expert, however, so if any of the more experienced writers have some advice on that subject I would welcome it.

One last thing I forgot to mention earlier. When you write:

“William, I can’t wait to get married; in only two weeks away, I will be Mrs. William Zephyr!” she said, with a big smile.

...you're having one character tell another something they both already know in order to explain something to the reader. That's another rookie mistake.

 

[sunandshadow]

Here's a thought - if you want to build the main character up as being naturally inclined to be demonic, maybe his introduction could describe his frustrations with some earthly rules and morals - everyone can sympathize with the discomfort of being stuck in a group where we don't fit in.

 

[srlmort]

Thanks for replies

Hello again,

Amontillado, I thank you with the words about tenses. Of course after reading back through the story, I cannot believe I missed some of those mistakes. I still need the practice and that's why I keep writing.

Sun, I will be rewriting Deliverance completely. Once I started fixing it I had better ideas including your recent thought about characters.

Thank you both for the in depth critiques. Maybe when I rewrite, I'll send it to you offlist.

 

[CharleyH]

Removed with apologies.

 

[srlmort]

Reply

Hi Charley,

That is called posting before checking your own work. I don't really write that badly. I had added the so called beginning after a Lit volunteer editor read it. So my mistake.

Thanks for attempting to read. I will be overhauling this story.

 

[Penelope Street]

Hi Michael,

I only made time to read the first three chapters. Overall, I like your concept, but for me the presentation wasn't all it could have been.

Using asterisks to indicate your narrator's thoughts may not be the best choice. If this is a standard, it's one I've managed to miss. I've seen italics used most often for internal monologue, so for me this unfamiliar manner made for awkward reading. It didn't help that I had to change the font up two sizes so I could tell at a glance the difference between an asterisk and a quote. Regardless of which method you us, I'd suggest treating thoughts just like dialogue with respect to using separate paragraphs.

I like your narrator's voice. His exposition regarding his past and his nature are both well done. My only question is, should this exposition be used at all? If you can reveal his history and his nature through what he says and does, instead of just having him tell us about himself, that usually works best. In this case, it depends on what you wished to accomplish. If your goal is to immediately show an unrepentant cad, thus keeping me at a distance from your narrator, then you did a great job.

You might consider omitting the flashback detailing when Laura and William first met. I didn't notice anything in that recollection that might change the story, but if there is something, Laura could simply say, "Remember when we first met?" and the characters could likely reveal whatever you wished the reader to know without interrupting the flow. Ditto for his recollection involving his mother's wishes, which he'd more or less covered earlier by way of exposition. Even if you choose to remove the earlier exposition, you may be able to find a livelier way to reveal his motivations with respect to marrying Laura and becoming a father.

I enjoyed the action-oriented aspects of your opening scene. The style, showing us a lustful protagonist and then turning loose the succubus, reminded me a little of hydra's work.

The next scene was something of a blur for me. Maybe there were just too many new characters? On the other hand, it would probably have been something of a blur to the narrator too for the same reasons, so if that was your intention, good job again.

For me, the glaring omission from this second scene is the narrator not asking about Laura- especially after one of the other characters taunts him with her image. Was this intentional, and if so, why?

Working with an unsympathetic protagonist makes keeping the reader's interest all the more a challenge.
After finishing the initial chapters, my primary motivation for reading would be to learn about Laura, not the narrator. Since the second scene seemed to shove her aside, I'm not confident I'll soon learn much about her. I'm also a little curious why the narrator suddenly cared about his father.

If I didn't have so many other things to do, I might well have read on to satisfy these curiosities, but I don't imagine I will find the time. As if we needed another example of how fine the line can be between keeping and losing a reader!

Thanks for offering your work for discussion and for being such a gracious host!

Take Care,
Penny

 

[Penelope Street]

So I think, if he ended up developing into a more interesting person over the course of the story, that interest needs to be worked back thorough the beginning. Or maybe start the story from the point of view of a different character who has an immediate problem.

I also wondered if telling the story from another character's perspective would make it more appealing. If the narrator becomes more interesting later, is it possible that's really the place to start this story?

... the story never teaches him any lessons or gives him a reason to grow as a person...

If deep down, William doesn't really change, what is the point of the tale?

Even selfish assholes have to be interesting. If anything, they have to be MORE interesting than more pleasant characters, cause who wants to read about someone both unpleasant and boring?

You should be trying to sell your story to the reader. ... Introducing a protagonist who is a privileged jerk with no personality or charm does the opposite.

Yeppers!

Seemingly, I had no choice but I am grateful that I made the right one.

That's self-contradictory.

I stumbled over this line too, but soon forgot about it. Amon's correct about the other English use issues too, even though I didn't find any of the others particularly jarring.

Sun, I guess I understand your point now about William. He does need to have a goal in mind that needs to be stated.

In the opening, he does have a stated goal. If the protagonist doesn't have an understood goal later in the tale, that's likely a serious issue.

One issue that stands out and is rather self-contained is your method to denote the author's inner voice. ... Put them in italics...

That's exactly what I would do.

One last thing--you're taking a page out of J. K. Rowling's book with your spells, but whereas she uses Latin and other languages for her spell names, you're just using plain English in all caps. It reads kinda funny, especially when you're explaining what the spell does (for example: "Excited, I said the word BLAZE and caused a fire to appear in front of me. Before it could get out of hand, I said OUT, which meant to put it out").

In a similar situation involving a warlock speaking during incantations, I put his words into an online translator. After trying several languages, I settled on Italian just because I liked the sound of it. On a related note, reading your story aloud to yourself can often be a good editing technique.

Not sure how I will explain the spells.

My inclination would be to not explain them.




This is an interesting story and I regret missing the active phase of the discussion.

Thanks again for sharing your work!