Story Discussion: 11/09/2010. "Jujubees" by PacoFear

[PacoFear]

Hiya gang,

Out of respect for your time, I've decided not to inflict my current project on the good people of The Circle. My draft isn't shiny enough yet. More importantly, it's at about 24,000 words and counting.

Instead, I'd like folks to read and comment on one of my existing postings: "Jujubees." It's only about 2,500 words long. Content-wise, fair warning, it's lesbian and it includes a velvety variation of D/s.

If you're game, read Jujubees then come back for the questions in my follow-up post below.

Thanks to all,

-PF

 

[PacoFear]

Naturally, you're invited to provide thoughts and commentary on any aspect of the story you damned well please. I do have a few nagging questions though, below, and if you feel like answering some or all, that would be just peachy.

1) Did you notice that there was virtually no description of the appearance of either woman? I wanted to write something whose titillation was based entirely on the situation and the interplay between the characters. Does the story have enough detail without knowing what the characters look like?

2) Did the story grab you right from the start? I'm obsessed with hooking a reader as quickly as possible. If it didn't, why?

3) One of the things I've never been satisfied with on this story was the way the flashbacks cut in and out. Is it clear what's happening? Karen has three separate reflective moments: meeting Dee; dating in high school as an explanation for her jujubee safeword; and sex she had with Dee the previous week. Is this clear? Does it feel disjointed? If it feels like your being jerked around in time, any suggestions on smoothing this out?

4) I'm a vanilla guy. Am I voicing a girl okay? Lesbian okay? Submissive lesbian okay? Dominant lesbian okay? [question expanded based on PenisMightier1's comments below]

5) I'm trying to work out the kinks (hehe ) of writing in very immediate, present tense. Did you feel like you were living this scene with Karen? At one point she notes that she's "on a ride" and that she herself is a ride for her lover. The unstated follow-on notion there was that Karen should also be a ride for you, the reader.

Thanks in advance for your input.

-PF

 

[Dual_Triode]

Hi PF,

I just read Jujubees. Twice. Congratulations on an excellent bit of writing. I particularly like the economical style and the short sentences. Kind of reminds me of Hemingway, to a certain extent.

1) Did you notice that there was virtually no description of the appearance of either woman? I wanted to write something whose titillation was based entirely on the situation and the interplay between the characters. Does the story have enough detail without knowing what the characters look like?

Actually, no. Even though I started with this thought in mind, I forgot to pay attention after the first two paragraphs. I think the absence of physical attributes goes well with Karen's posture. She can't see Dee and neither can we. I think there was plenty of auditory detail to allow a mental image of the characters to be formed. It worked for me.

2) Did the story grab you right from the start? I'm obsessed with hooking a reader as quickly as possible. If it didn't, why?

"Just super. I'm tied naked and facedown in the middle of a bed and waiting to get fucked. Again."

Mission accomplished. (Is it getting hot in here?)

3) One of the things I've never been satisfied with on this story was the way the flashbacks cut in and out. Is it clear what's happening? Karen has three separate reflective moments: meeting Dee; dating in high school as an explanation for her jujubee safeword; and sex she had with Dee the previous week. Is this clear? Does it feel disjointed? If it feels like your being jerked around in time, any suggestions on smoothing this out?

I also struggle with this aspect. Shifting from the present to recount past events is tricky, especially from a first person POV. I didn't get lost on the entry into the flashback: the switch to past perfect tense was obvious. The recounting of the candle wax weekend had a clear beginning, but the return to the present was a little blurry. This is not a criticism; I liked the way it flowed. The merging of memory with perception was a powerful element for me.

In a recent submission of my own, my protagonist would remember events with his late wife. I ended up blurring the tenses between past perfect and simple past to emphasize his dilemma.

4) I'm a guy. Am I voicing a girl okay?

Can't help you here.

5) I'm trying to work out the kinks (hehe ) of writing in very immediate, present tense. Did you feel like you were living this scene with Karen? At one point she notes that she's "on a ride" and that she herself is a ride for her lover. The unstated follow-on notion there was that Karen should also be a ride for you, the reader.

The one time I tried a first person story, I ended up with a similar POV. By this I mean that the protagonist is telling his/her story to the reader, almost like sitting around the campfire. I felt an immediate connection with Karen, but not like she was my ride. I felt like an observer, watching Dee respectfully abuse her with an impossibly large dildo, except that Karen was talking to me.


Overall, I really enjoyed this scene. The D/s kink is not something that trips my trigger, but I found it highly erotic and engaging. Well done.

Peace,
~Dual_Triode

 

[talismania]

Hi Paco. Your story was such a fun read, I almost hate to comment on it. That means I need to get all analytical and that takes me down from my high. So I'll try to answer your questions in ways that will be helpful.

1) Did you notice that there was virtually no description of the appearance of either woman?

Not really. I mean, it made perfect sense that the POV character could not provide a visual description of Dee. She most definitely provides aural, olfactory and tactile (especially tactile) descriptions of her lover. I didn't care what Dee looked like because what she looks like isn't part of the sexual experience being portrayed.

2) Did the story grab you right from the start? I'm obsessed with hooking a reader as quickly as possible. If it didn't, why?

Oh yeah. Grabbed me good. Very successful there... I could take a few lessons.

3) One of the things I've never been satisfied with on this story was the way the flashbacks cut in and out. Is it clear what's happening? Karen has three separate reflective moments: meeting Dee; dating in high school as an explanation for her jujubee safeword; and sex she had with Dee the previous week. Is this clear? Does it feel disjointed? If it feels like your being jerked around in time, any suggestions on smoothing this out?

Um... yeah. The flashbacks caused some breaks in the flow. While it was clear what was happening, the meeting with Dee felt inserted rather than being a smooth extension of the experience and the sex with Dee the previous week required me to step out of the story a moment, make an adjustment--this is not happening now, but answers my question about how long Karen's been tied to the bed (sort of)--and then step back into the immediate action. The jujubee scene did not leap out at me that way and is probably fine as is.

I'm not sure how best to handle your flashbacks. Have you tried putting the flashback action in italics? That serves to visually separate the scene for the reader, so the reader doesn't have to do the processing to realize "oh, this is something outside current action." It's visually outside the action. Just a thought. Italics work well for small diversions; less well for longer ones, which are better with scene breaks. But I understand completely why you don't want a scene break here. You have such a beautiful flow going.

4) I'm a guy. Am I voicing a girl okay?

Well, I am a girl and I think you're voicing a girl just fine. However, I am a straight girl and might not have the best insight into a lesbian mindset. The physical descriptions worked for me, though. I got hot imagining myself in Karen's position (though I know for a fact my limbs would have been cramping by then.. but I can put that aside for good fiction!). My one quibble about one of the descriptions, I'll send to you in a PM.

5) I'm trying to work out the kinks (hehe ) of writing in very immediate, present tense. Did you feel like you were living this scene with Karen? At one point she notes that she's "on a ride" and that she herself is a ride for her lover. The unstated follow-on notion there was that Karen should also be a ride for you, the reader.

I'm not sure immediate first person lends itself to creating the POV character as a ride for the reader. Yes, in the sense that the reader goes on the same ride as the POV character, because first person places the reader inside the character's head. However, the ride they take is Karen's ride. I think third-person is better suited to making the POV character the ride.

The thing is, I think you achieved your purpose, which was to take the reader on a ride! Being in Karen's head took me on quite a ride.

 

[PenIsMightier1]

I wish I could go into a more in depth analysis right now, but that. Was. Fantastic!

Ok, calming down time...

1) Did you notice there were virtually no description of the appearance of either women?

I did, and I loved it, it pisses me off no end when people go into detail about about exact statistics, besides this story didn't need it, it was about the sensations, the moment you try and start trying to describe what everything looks like you take away from the sensation that Karen is supposed to be feeling.

2) Did the story grab you right from the start? I'm obsessed with hooking a reader as quickly as possible. If it didn't, why?

It did, not a boring beginning at all, and the ending was great too, synchronised with a bit of humour.

3) One of the things I've never been satisfied with on this story was the way the flashbacks cut in and out. Is it clear what's happening? Karen has three separate reflective moments: meeting Dee; dating in high school as an explanation for her jujubee safeword; and sex she had with Dee the previous week. Is this clear? Does it feel disjointed? If it feels like your being jerked around in time, any suggestions on smoothing this out?

I think that the reflective moments are a mixed bag, I actually could have done without most of them, however the candle wax one I think was needed that it related to the sensations that karen was feeling then. The whole jujubees thing I felt wasn't really needed that much, and kind of detracted from being in the moment.


P.S Candle wax, when used in playing is not the everyday candles that you buy for lighting your house, play candles have a much lower temperature so they don't burn you, they heat you up and can be a jolt if its a cool room, but I still feel that it was a good scene to include

4) I'm a guy. Am I voicing a girl okay?

I am a lesbian, although it is still only my opinion, I think you did quite well, but I think you're actually asking the wrong question, the question you should be asking is, did I voice the submissive okay, and you did, that's what actually made this a fantastic story for me, I'm a domme myself so reading a story that captures what it feels like to be in this relationship is great.

5) I'm trying to work out the kinks (hehe ) of writing in very immediate, present tense. Did you feel like you were living this scene with Karen? At one point she notes that she's "on a ride" and that she herself is a ride for her lover. The unstated follow-on notion there was that Karen should also be a ride for you, the reader.

I enjoyed this, in the present perspective and it worked out well, but again the flashback scenes were what made it not flow as nicely as it could have.

I hope that this was a helpful analysis for you

 

[PacoFear]

Thanks Dual and Tali! You're both very kind.

I particularly like the economical style and the short sentences.

Thanks! That was intentional and also a bit of a struggle. I can get a bit purple left to my own devices. ​

I think the absence of physical attributes goes well with Karen's posture. She can't see Dee and neither can we. I think there was plenty of auditory detail to allow a mental image of the characters to be formed. It worked for me.

I mean, it made perfect sense that the POV character could not provide a visual description of Dee. She most definitely provides aural, olfactory and tactile (especially tactile) descriptions of her lover. I didn't care what Dee looked like because what she looks like isn't part of the sexual experience being portrayed.

Funny, I sort of backed into the blindfolded and tied up thing because my primary purpose was to tell a mostly visual-free vignette that felt natural. My little hamsterwheel brain spun on the problem for awhile and this is what I came up with. It was either this or Karen was going to have to be blind. Whole different can of worms there. ​

[The opener g]rabbed me good. Very successful there... I could take a few lessons.

Mission accomplished. (Is it getting hot in here?)

Huzzah! ​

I didn't get lost on the entry into the flashback: the switch to past perfect tense was obvious. The recounting of the candle wax weekend had a clear beginning, but the return to the present was a little blurry. This is not a criticism; I liked the way it flowed. The merging of memory with perception was a powerful element for me.

The flashbacks caused some breaks in the flow. While it was clear what was happening, the meeting with Dee felt inserted rather than being a smooth extension of the experience and the sex with Dee the previous week required me to step out of the story a moment, make an adjustment--this is not happening now, but answers my question about how long Karen's been tied to the bed (sort of)--and then step back into the immediate action. The jujubee scene did not leap out at me that way and is probably fine as is.

Here's what I love about The Circle, differing opinions! It was really the transition between the candlewax reflection and the jujubee explanation that I had the most trouble with. It needs to slip from one non-contemporaneous moment into another. Not sure what the best mechanic for that would be. I could have been more rigorous with the past perfect tense and that might have helped, but I also think reading "had answered," "had relieved, "had" everything over and over can get unwieldy. Theoretically I guess it should have read:​

"No," she'd answered as she lifted my head carefully, cupping the back of my neck, "Here's a pillow though. Better?"

It had been soft, relieving the kink in my neck. "Yes, thank you."

I'd thought about asking her to untie me so I could check my skin where the wax hit me. She'd have done it if I used my safeword, the one she'd made me pick way in the beginning.

Jujubees.

Yeah, it's a little silly but I've always liked them. When boys in high school took me on dates to the movies I always asked for a big box of them. Then we'd sit in the back of the theater and do all the things the nuns told me not to. So jujubees and sex are linked for me.

Tali, on your suggestion to use italics, I had considered it at one point but wasn't sure it would make things clearer because it's kind of two non-contemporaneous moments slipping into each other. It'd be italics into italics, wouldn't it? Although, I guess it would have made the transition into the present clearer. Oh bother. ​

I got hot imagining myself in Karen's position (though I know for a fact my limbs would have been cramping by then.

Again, huzzah! To be honest, the reality of tying someone down for a prolonged period didn't really set in while I was writing/editing the story. After I posted it, and re-read it myself, it did occur to me that the poor girl might need to at least pee at some point. The crampy limb problem didn't occur to me at all. Ah well, 'tis fantasy after all. If I came at my wife with a length of rope and suggested tying her up for any period, extended or not, she'd probably beat me with it. Gots me a feisty one. ​

Thanks again gang!

-PF

 

[PacoFear]

I wish I could go into a more in depth analysis right now, but that. Was. Fantastic!

Pardon me while I do a quick victory cabbage-patch.* Uh-huh, oh yeah, writin' steamy. ​

I did, and I loved it, it pisses me off no end when people go into detail about about exact statistics, besides this story didn't need it, it was about the sensations, the moment you try and start trying to describe what everything looks like you take away from the sensation that Karen is supposed to be feeling.

I'm completely with you. The mug shot descriptions (I think that's Penny's term? to Penny) are a serious turn off as a reader. As a writer, I kinda get tired of having to cook up what people look like. This was kind of a nice break. ​

[N]ot a boring beginning at all, and the ending was great too, synchronised with a bit of humour.

I was going for a sort of sweet, tender ending that didn't feel like an ending, hence the circular closer. I know you weren't fond of the jujubee reflection, but it's doing (or I hoped it would be doing) multiple functions. First, humor. Seriously, jujubees as a safeword? Second, it's concrete evidence of the kind of relationship that Karen and Dee are in, so that the reader is assured that Karen and Dee play these sorts of games regularly. Finally, and most importantly, it was to set up the ending where Dee gets to say "Sure you don't want some Jujubees, honey?"

This is one of the gambits I exploit not-so-subtley in a lot of my stories, using a shared language, terms, nicknames, etc. between characters as indicia of a close and intimate relationship.

Would the ending have resonated for you in the same way if I'd omitted the jujubee idea and Dee had simply said "Sure you don't want me to untie you, honey?"​

P.S. Candle wax, when used in playing is not the everyday candles that you buy for lighting your house, play candles have a much lower temperature so they don't burn you, they heat you up and can be a jolt if its a cool room, but I still feel that it was a good scene to include.

I am a lesbian, although it is still only my opinion, I think you did quite well, but I think you're actually asking the wrong question, the question you should be asking is, did I voice the submissive okay, and you did, that's what actually made this a fantastic story for me, I'm a domme myself so reading a story that captures what it feels like to be in this relationship is great.

I'll come clean here with respect to my assorted ignorances and say that my rl D/s experience is limited, though I did have a long run with a girlfriend who had a nigh-unslakeable thirst for rough luvin'. Seriously, the extent of her bruising afterwards was her principal indicator of a "good time." I have to tell you, when it came right down to it, I was playing along mostly for her. At my center, I'm a snuggler not a spanker. Anyhoo, the gf and I ended up meeting in the middle, with the sort of tender, velvety abuse I usually try to reach for in these situations.

The point is, I'm doing another little victory cabbage-patch* over here. I know virtually nothing about D/s and I think one of the most satisfying compliments a writer can get is when he reaches outside his comfort zone and makes up a bunch of sh_t then has someone say it reads true. Joy!​

Thanks so much for chiming in!

-PF

*A "cabbage-patch" is an incredibly cheesy victory dance performed by whitebread suburban boys. It's best done in private. No, I won't teach you.

P.S. I tried to resist but can't. PenisMightier1, is the double entendre of your screen name intentional? A lesbian domme with a... you know... oh my... that's just got me snickering endlessly.

 

[PenIsMightier1]

Pardon me while I do a quick victory cabbage-patch.* Uh-huh, oh yeah, writin' steamy. ​

I'm completely with you. The mug shot descriptions (I think that's Penny's term? to Penny) are a serious turn off as a reader. As a writer, I kinda get tired of having to cook up what people look like. This was kind of a nice break. ​

I was going for a sort of sweet, tender ending that didn't feel like an ending, hence the circular closer. I know you weren't fond of the jujubee reflection, but it's doing (or I hoped it would be doing) multiple functions. First, humor. Seriously, jujubees as a safeword? Second, it's concrete evidence of the kind of relationship that Karen and Dee are in, so that the reader is assured that Karen and Dee play these sorts of games regularly. Finally, and most importantly, it was to set up the ending where Dee gets to say "Sure you don't want some Jujubees, honey?"

This is one of the gambits I exploit not-so-subtley in a lot of my stories, using a shared language, terms, nicknames, etc. between characters as indicia of a close and intimate relationship.

Would the ending have resonated for you in the same way if I'd omitted the jujubee idea and Dee had simply said "Sure you don't want me to untie you, honey?"​

I'll come clean here with respect to my assorted ignorances and say that my rl D/s experience is limited, though I did have a long run with a girlfriend who had a nigh-unslakeable thirst for rough luvin'. Seriously, the extent of her bruising afterwards was her principal indicator of a "good time." I have to tell you, when it came right down to it, I was playing along mostly for her. At my center, I'm a snuggler not a spanker. Anyhoo, the gf and I ended up meeting in the middle, with the sort of tender, velvety abuse I usually try to reach for in these situations.

The point is, I'm doing another little victory cabbage-patch* over here. I know virtually nothing about D/s and I think one of the most satisfying compliments a writer can get is when he reaches outside his comfort zone and makes up a bunch of sh_t then has someone say it reads true. Joy!​

Thanks so much for chiming in!

-PF

*A "cabbage-patch" is an incredibly cheesy victory dance performed by whitebread suburban boys. It's best done in private. No, I won't teach you.

P.S. I tried to resist but can't. PenisMightier1, is the double entendre of your screen name intentional? A lesbian domme with a... you know... oh my... that's just got me snickering endlessly.

Yeah, that's where it is kind of difficult for me, while I didn't feel the jujubee thing was needed I thought the idea was good, but I feel like the safe word could still be like that, a safeword is usually something like that, something that is not going to be used unless you mean to say it, but but maybe that was just me, it doesn't detract too much that you lose focus on the story, or make you unable to get back into it.

Yes, the double entendre is very intentional, because I am a literary geek and like to make jokes like that, however I don't have one silly boy

 

[CharleyH]

Hiya gang,

Out of respect for your time, I've decided not to inflict my current project on the good people of The Circle. My draft isn't shiny enough yet. More importantly, it's at about 24,000 words and counting.

Instead, I'd like folks to read and comment on one of my existing postings: "Jujubees." It's only about 2,500 words long. Content-wise, fair warning, it's lesbian and it includes a velvety variation of D/s.

If you're game, read Jujubees then come back for the questions in my follow-up post below.

Thanks to all,

-PF

I'm saddened. The SDC is a place to work out the kinks in our stories. The SDC has always been the place I've run to in order to get honest feedback. I'm not interested in a shiny, polished piece. I'm interested in your raw, 'don't know what the fuck' piece your writing now. Let me just say one word Paco: COWARD!

(please note that I'm teasing you in my way)

 

[PacoFear]

I'm saddened. The SDC is a place to work out the kinks in our stories. The SDC has always been the place I've run to in order to get honest feedback. I'm not interested in a shiny, polished piece. I'm interested in your raw, 'don't know what the fuck' piece your writing now. Let me just say one word Paco: COWARD!

(please note that I'm teasing you in my way)

I hear you, Charley.

I don't think it's fair to ask the SDC peeps to read and comment on a story with flaws I'd be able to smooth out on my lonesome with a bit more time and effort. I don't see this as a game of point out all the flaws in a half-assed effort at writing. Nope, better I think to use The Circle to find problems I'm not seeing.

Call it careful exploitation of a limited resource. See porn can be green too.

All this said, there were, of course, ulterior motives. Ulterior motives? Yes, ulterior motives.

Ulterior motive #1: One of the reasons I picked Jujubees is that I had higher hopes for it in terms of voting score. It's just barely clawing onto a little red H. I know the voting here is wonky though, and was curious to see if there was a defect that I'd overlooked.

Ulterior motive #2: Another reason I picked jujubees was to troll for an experienced, sharp-eyed commenter on g-g D/s content. The current project I withheld is fraught with it and I could use a knowledgeable second set of eyes. My usual editing peeps are a tad more mainstream. PenisMightier1 will be getting a polite PM in the next few days. *cue the diabolical laugh*

 

[PenIsMightier1]

I hear you, Charley.

I don't think it's fair to ask the SDC peeps to read and comment on a story with flaws I'd be able to smooth out on my lonesome with a bit more time and effort. I don't see this as a game of point out all the flaws in a half-assed effort at writing. Nope, better I think to use The Circle to find problems I'm not seeing.

Call it careful exploitation of a limited resource. See porn can be green too.

All this said, there were, of course, ulterior motives. Ulterior motives? Yes, ulterior motives.

Ulterior motive #1: One of the reasons I picked Jujubees is that I had higher hopes for it in terms of voting score. It's just barely clawing onto a little red H. I know the voting here is wonky though, and was curious to see if there was s defect that I'd overlooked.

Ulterior motive #2: Another reason I picked jujubees was to troll for an experienced, sharp-eyed commenter on g-g D/s content. The current project I withheld is fraught with it and I could use a knowledgeable second set of eyes. My usual editing peeps are a tad more mainstream. PenisMightier1 will be getting a polite PM in the next few days. *cue the diabolical laugh*

Maybe if you ask really nicely

 

[CharleyH]

Understood.

 

[PacoFear]

Maybe if you ask really nicely

I'll grovel. Pretty well too. No pride here. None that can't be whored out to achieve my own smutty ends anyway.

 

[PacoFear]

Understood.

Never doubted.

 

[PenIsMightier1]

I'll grovel. Pretty well too. No pride here. None that can't be whored out to achieve my own smutty ends anyway.

I'll eagerly await your PM then

 

[talismania]

Hi Paco,

Along with PenisMightier, I could help you a bit with this one:

Ulterior motive #2: Another reason I picked jujubees was to troll for an experienced, sharp-eyed commenter on g-g D/s content. The current project I withheld is fraught with it and I could use a knowledgeable second set of eyes. My usual editing peeps are a tad more mainstream.

I didn't feel like getting hard-ass about it before, but your story has a few D/s no-nos. Bondage is my thing and Dee does one thing with Karen that most Dommes would consider irresponsible.

She leaves a bound sub alone.

Dee leaves Karen bound while she runs out for coffee. What if Karen experienced cramping, choking or some other problem? What if Dee were in an accident and did not return? What if the house caught fire? Or someone broke in? Also, if anything happened to Dee, even if she sent help she would expose her sub to unintended humiliation and possibly worse.

I kind of mentioned the physical aspects of lengthy bondage. You don't go into detail about how Karen is "tied," so I rationalized that Dee probably knew her stuff and made sure the cuffs were padded and not too tight, and that Karen's position is not extreme. You could be sensual in describing how Dee checks Karen's hands or feet for circulation, or changes the position of her limbs to facilitate her comfort--and safety. People kept in one position too long can develop all kinds of problems, like deep vein thrombosis. Most don't--no more than do most airplane passengers--but they can. Just a thought.

The candle wax thing occurred to me also, but I rationalized that Dee knew what she was doing and was using special waxing candles. Still, you might address that point.

I guess it depends on the "feel" you are trying to achieve. The fewer references to safety concerns, the greater the possibility this is a non-consensual, captive situation or one where the protagonist has consented herself into the hands of a callous, albeit hot, dominant. If you want to up the sense that Dee is being extreme, but lovingly so, you might want to add some details that convey safety or comfort concerns. It's tricky, because I like your story the way it is. My impression that Dee is callous about her captive, and that Karen is getting off on her situation, doesn't detract from how hot it all is.

Hope this helps rather than muddles.

 

[PacoFear]

Bondage is my thing and Dee does one thing with Karen that most Dommes would consider irresponsible.

She leaves a bound sub alone.

Dee leaves Karen bound while she runs out for coffee. What if Karen experienced cramping, choking or some other problem? What if Dee were in an accident and did not return? What if the house caught fire? Or someone broke in? Also, if anything happened to Dee, even if she sent help she would expose her sub to unintended humiliation and possibly worse.

I kind of mentioned the physical aspects of lengthy bondage. You don't go into detail about how Karen is "tied," so I rationalized that Dee probably knew her stuff and made sure the cuffs were padded and not too tight, and that Karen's position is not extreme. You could be sensual in describing how Dee checks Karen's hands or feet for circulation, or changes the position of her limbs to facilitate her comfort--and safety. People kept in one position too long can develop all kinds of problems, like deep vein thrombosis. Most don't--no more than do most airplane passengers--but they can. Just a thought.

*furiously scribbling notes* Thanks Tali!​

I guess it depends on the "feel" you are trying to achieve. The fewer references to safety concerns, the greater the possibility this is a non-consensual, captive situation or one where the protagonist has consented herself into the hands of a callous, albeit hot, dominant. If you want to up the sense that Dee is being extreme, but lovingly so, you might want to add some details that convey safety or comfort concerns.

My rube attempt at the extreme yet tender thing was when Dee slipped a pillow under Karen's neck at one point. I like your idea of Dee checking Karen's restraints to make sure she's still comfortable though. To maintain flow I'm thinking it might work best at the end. See if this works for you?​

FROM​

"That's my girl," she pats me, strokes my cheek, then I listen to the little brushing sounds of her feet leaving.

TO​

"That's my girl," she strokes my cheek gently before her hands skim over my body, checking my knots and searching my skin for marks from the bindings. So thoughtful. So careful. But then I've never lasted this long before.

"You're fine, kitten," she murmurs. "Rest up now. I'll be back in a little while for more fun." I listen to the little brushing sounds of her feet leaving.

When she's gone, I'm tied naked and facedown in the middle of a bed and waiting to get fucked. Again.

 

[talismania]

I like this a lot, particularly Karen's thoughts about what is taking place:

Originally Posted by Tweaked Story
"That's my girl," she strokes my cheek gently before her hands skim over my body, checking my knots and searching my skin for marks from the bindings. So thoughtful. So careful. But then I've never lasted this long before.

"You're fine, kitten," she murmurs. "Rest up now. I'll be back in a little while for more fun." I listen to the little brushing sounds of her feet leaving.

When she's gone, I'm tied naked and facedown in the middle of a bed and waiting to get fucked. Again.

What Dee would be checking for would be signs of impaired circulation such as cold hands or feet, a bluish tint to the skin or nails or tingling/numbness. Redness is something she'd look for also because it can mean ropes are abrading the skin or the bonds are too tight. Dominants depend on their subs to be honest about numbness or pain. That Karen is not using her safeword, a domme would take as indication she's not in distress, though many would also make a discreet inquiry... which I recall Dee does at more than one point. ("Sure you don't want some Jujubees, honey?") Well done!

By the way, I love your word choice in the new section. Dee's hands "skim." That sounds deliciously light, yet efficient. Quite perfect, really.

 

[PenIsMightier1]

I like this a lot, particularly Karen's thoughts about what is taking place:



What Dee would be checking for would be signs of impaired circulation such as cold hands or feet, a bluish tint to the skin or nails or tingling/numbness. Redness is something she'd look for also because it can mean ropes are abrading the skin or the bonds are too tight. Dominants depend on their subs to be honest about numbness or pain. That Karen is not using her safeword, a domme would take as indication she's not in distress, though many would also make a discreet inquiry... which I recall Dee does at more than one point. ("Sure you don't want some Jujubees, honey?") Well done!

By the way, I love your word choice in the new section. Dee's hands "skim." That sounds deliciously light, yet efficient. Quite perfect, really.

Excellent, I couldn't have put it better myself

(Hope you don't mind me stepping in on the lesson )

This doesn't come in the story much and probably doesn't need to, but one thing you might want to consider is what Karen is being bound with.
People who are new to bondage or D/S will often make the mistakes of going with what they think are "sexy" materials, silk etc, and while they are sexy they are not good for binding people as they have little friction and as they are pulled upon can get tighter and tighter, until they eventually become as thin as string, cutting into blood supply and become very hard to undo.
Rope is a good medium, it may not sound the sexiest but its durable and gets the job done.

If restraints are going to be used, again durability and comfort are key, not aesthetics (the aesthetic we going for here is them being bound and helpless not looking like something from american beauty). So metal handcuffs are durable but not comfy, they can dig in, and sometimes they can pull tighter because of the spring mechanism, (my all time hated restraint is the "fluffy handcuffs" that you see being sold for these casual people absolutely less than useless)
I recommend leather restraints, they are much more comfortable (because of softness and can come in thicker sizes so that all restraining force is not applied to one small point of flesh on delicate wrists and they are extremely durable.

God I sound like I'm giving a lecture

Yeah, just as Talismania said, safeword is there to stop things going too far, but a lot of doms/dommes will still worry if their submissive is new and doesn't really know their limits and will generally check anyway to make sure that everything is still ok.

 

[PacoFear]

What Dee would be checking for would be signs of impaired circulation such as cold hands or feet, a bluish tint to the skin or nails or tingling/numbness. Redness is something she'd look for also because it can mean ropes are abrading the skin or the bonds are too tight. Dominants depend on their subs to be honest about numbness or pain. That Karen is not using her safeword, a domme would take as indication she's not in distress, though many would also make a discreet inquiry... which I recall Dee does at more than one point. ("Sure you don't want some Jujubees, honey?") Well done!

Thanks for the kind words, Tali. And the tips. It's all getting tucked into my smutty database.

By the way, I love your word choice in the new section. Dee's hands "skim." That sounds deliciously light, yet efficient. Quite perfect, really.

Glad you liked it. Funny, I had to noodle on that a little. If you want to know what that sounded like in my head:

Traced? No. Swept? No. Searched? No, need that for the next sentence. Scanned? With your hands, really? Skimmed? Yep, skimmed.

I blame Penny. I spend a lot of time trying to find the right damned verb because I can barely stand adverbs anymore. Damn you, Penny!

 

[PacoFear]

God I sound like I'm giving a lecture

No, no this great. If they'd offered this kind of material in college, my attendance would have been better.

 

[PenIsMightier1]

No, no this great. If they'd offered this kind of material in college, my attendance would have been better.

BDSM 101, I'm sure it would have been very popular, especially if they had practicals

 

[talismania]

BDSM 101, I'm sure it would have been very popular, especially if they had practicals

Well, I sure would have taken it! Learning by trial and error can be, um, painful . . . and not in a good way.

 

[Penelope Street]

Hi Paco,

Did you notice that there was virtually no description of the appearance of either woman?

No, I didn't notice the lack of physical descriptions of the characters, except that one says the other is pretty early. It's a fine omittion since their precise appearance doesn't matter.

Did the story grab you right from the start? If it didn't, why?

The story never really grabbed me. In the end, it's just dressed-up, happy-couple sex without much real tension or drama, right? I didn't get the impression you meant it to be more, but still, this line really lessened the tension for me: I'd been so eager that I'd missed the warning signs. Yeah, it was scary for awhile there, but now I'm glad I did. See how she pretty much says the most intense moments have already occurred? Those are the moments I want to read about.

One of the things I've never been satisfied with on this story was the way the flashbacks cut in and out. Is it clear what's happening? Karen has three separate reflective moments: meeting Dee; dating in high school as an explanation for her jujubee safeword; and sex she had with Dee the previous week. Is this clear? Does it feel disjointed?

I didn't have any trouble following the flashbacks, but they did break the flow, so, yeah, it's a bit disjointed. For me, the real issue is, would this character naturally tell her story in this fashion?

Am I voicing a girl okay?

I did have some issues with her voice, though they aren't really gender related. The narrator's voice is fine, so fine it's almost cloying, if that makes sense. The very nature of her story-telling kept reminding me it was just a story. I expected her voice might change mid-story when she became excited, which would have been a clever twist, but I didn't notice any difference. On the one hand, we have Dee telling the narrator to lose her college brain, which she claims she does, yet when she's allegedly aroused, she's still analytical enough to identify sensations in her ovaries and equate it to a religious experience. In retrospect, I think it may be a tad overwritten.

I'm trying to work out the kinks (hehe ) of writing in very immediate, present tense.

I didn't even notice the tense, which I suppose is a good thing.

Naturally, you're invited to provide thoughts and commentary on any aspect of the story you damned well please.

You knew the abverb police would be out in force, right? There are four near the end that kinda jumped out at me more than others, plus a pair where the narrator says she's dripping likes a whore. Minor side note: this line also put me out of the story for just a moment when I paused to wonder if whores actually get excited by their work.

The whole warmed-dildo idea is a fine one to explore. For those in the mood for a flashy vignette, I can see how it could work, but I still want to know about those earlier, scarier times.

Thanks for sharing your story with us.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[PacoFear]

Hi Penny,

Thanks for chiming in! My thoughts on your thoughts on my thoughts (that makes sense, I think ) are below.

The story never really grabbed me. In the end, it's just dressed-up, happy-couple sex without much real tension or drama, right? I didn't get the impression you meant it to be more, but still, this line really lessened the tension for me: I'd been so eager that I'd missed the warning signs. Yeah, it was scary for awhile there, but now I'm glad I did. See how she pretty much says the most intense moments have already occurred? Those are the moments I want to read about.

You've put your finger on something here that I didn't consider when I was wondering why this story didn't do as well as I'd hoped. It lacks that heady, new relationship feel. I agree that there's something more captivating about early/seduction stories -- the hopes, humor and awkwardness that come with new attraction. To be honest, I favor that sort of material as well and my other Lit postings skew that way.

As you said though, this was an attempt at something else, a quick window into a morning that sheds some light on one couple's slightly off-beat relationship.

I didn't have any trouble following the flashbacks, but they did break the flow, so, yeah, it's a bit disjointed. For me, the real issue is, would this character naturally tell her story in this fashion?

These are the perils of a non-linear storytelling. The in media res start means a later explanation of who these people are kinda has to come later. I had to choose between narration and dialogue for their backstory. I was shooting for romancey narration. Think this would have read more interestingly if their story had come out in conversation? With Dee prompting Karen with something like, "Does this remind you of the night we met?"

I did have some issues with her voice, though they aren't really gender related. The narrator's voice is fine, so fine it's almost cloying, if that makes sense. The very nature of her story-telling kept reminding me it was just a story.

There's a few lines that read as direct address to the reader that, on reflection, I'd probably take out. One that bothers me more is when Karen explains Yeah, I was a little bit kinky even before Dee. I think that was a mistake. It pushes the reader out of first-person and, anyway, the reader should have been left to draw that conclusion for himself based on what he'd just been told.

I expected her voice might change mid-story when she became excited, which would have been a clever twist, but I didn't notice any difference. On the one hand, we have Dee telling the narrator to lose her college brain, which she claims she does, yet when she's allegedly aroused, she's still analytical enough to identify sensations in her ovaries and equate it to a religious experience. In retrospect, I think it may be a tad overwritten.

Ummm, zigged when I should have zagged? There was a theory at a play here, even if it didn't come off as I'd hoped. I was trying for contrast, just not in the direction you hoped (and as you pointed out, I signaled with the "big college girl brain" exchange ). My attempt was to show that the more excited Karen gets, the more introspective and prosaic she gets. To be fair, I backed into that idea this way: I liked Karen's matter-of-fact narration of her tied-up circumstances so, for contrast, quick n' snappy became long and purple as they get into the naughty. Trouble is, it doesn't match up with the dialogue does it? Karen's narration ought to be getting simpler. Oi, missed that one didn't I?

You knew the abverb police would be out in force, right? There are four near the end that kinda jumped out at me more than others, plus a pair where the narrator says she's dripping likes a whore.

Cuff me. Arrgh, yes, probably best to do as follows:

"helplessly" --> ", helpless as my"
ditch "slowly"
"she gingerly pulls" --> "she tugs"
"giggle weakly" ---> ugh, I'd keep it. This is an improper speech tag too isn't it? Lordy, I'm a mess.

Minor side note: this line also put me out of the story for just a moment when I paused to wonder if whores actually get excited by their work.

On the whole "whore" thing, Penny my dear, you've got a high-powered nose for my indecisions. As it turns out, I waffled between "whore" and "slut" just where you're talking about. I wanted Karen, as an 's' here, to dip into some derogatory observation about herself. While "slut" might have been more appropriate under the circumstances, Karen calling herself a "whore" carried an emotional payload I couldn't resist.

The whole warmed-dildo idea is a fine one to explore. For those in the mood for a flashy vignette, I can see how it could work, but I still want to know about those earlier, scarier times.

As it turns out, this story did the same thing to me. i wanted to write Dee/Karen's early story, or one like it. It's my current project, the now 50,000 word mess I can't seem to tame, tentatively titled Chasing Hope.

Thanks for sharing your story with us.

Thank you, Penny, for sharing your insights. And thanks to Dual, tali, and PM for their thoughts as well. This was fun.

Best to all,

-PacoFear