Story Discussion 02/16/2010, "Samhain's Fire" by Acal.

[Acal]

I felt that this was possibly one of the best pieces of writing that i've done. And I'd love to have more in depth reviews then just the one that I have gotten from my editor.

Samhain's Fire has gotten a 4.44 rating 66 votes, 4070 views. It did at one stage have a vote of 4.52 but of course it went down again. It is in the Non-Human category and 13K words long or 4 lit pages.

The non-human part is my heroine who happens to be an ancient succubus. How I set things up in this story is that on the three day period of Halloween (or Samhain as it's known to the Celts) that a succubus or incubus can have relations with a mortal without killing them. Through this purpose they can find a partner to share their "life" with. This man or woman will be strong enough to handle demonic urges and all that comes with being damned.

The biggest fixture of this is that the mortal has a pure soul or it doesn't work. Most of the lust demons (succubi/incubi) have neutral souls and are quite balanced. This is why a pure soul is required for this transition.

My female is a oriental goddess called Xandra and she's sitting on a roof top with her legs over the gutter taking in the rustic scent of burning wood from a lumber storage facility. As she is about to leave my male character Angus comes down the alley way beneath her carrying fire equipment back to his station. (Angus of course being a firefighter)

He turns out to be the one mortal she could be with, then starts the seduction and the full story.

She has to leave him for two weeks to see how he copes. You'll have to read to find it all out.

What i'm looking for here is extensive criticism I just feel that my friends are even not hard enough on things or like it too much and are blind to mistakes or inconsistencies

 

[PacoFear]

Acal,

You've piqued my interest. Do you want feedback posted on your thread or PM'ed?

-PF

 

[Acal]

posted on my thread any of those comments i've seen in the other review threads would probably be too big for the comments section on the archive lol.

 

[PacoFear]

Acal,

I haven't finished reading, but my first thoughts are quite positive. I think you have a very nice idea here and, for me, that's three-quarters of the battle. Stories with a redemption theme are popular and they're among my personal favorites. I like your sense of scene also. You move your characters around and you take us with them as they go.

My only criticism so far is a painfully nebulous one: the writing isn't bad, it's just a little inartful.

The beginning starts:

***
Xandra sat down on the rusting roof and sighed, tonight was the last night for yet another year where she could roam freely looking for that one man she could be with and not kill him of course.

She sighed again as she thought that it was the worst part of her job, she could never have a meaningful relationship. But at least she wasn't emotionally neutered like the angels. Her tail flicked behind her as she inspected her nails before getting up off her perch. She still had a quota to fulfill, she still needed to drag down two souls to the depths or she would get in trouble, again...
***

Your first sentence is fairly tortured. I took my crack at a more fluid version of the first few paragraphs. I'm sure plenty of folks could do better than this but here's my stab at it...

~~~
Xandra perched on the rusting rooftop and sighed. Tonight was the last night for her search. It would be another year before she could roam freely, looking for what seemed more and more unlikely as the decades slipped away.

She'd been searching for a special sort of man, one she could claim for herself without killing. But a man with the qualities she needed for a valid claim had been rare to begin with, maybe there weren't any more of them left.

Pure hearts were getting harder to find.

She sighed again. Her life wasn't horrible, just a little empty. She could never have a meaningful relationship, not without first finding what she sought. At least she had this one slim chance; she wasn't emotionally neutered like the angels. She could love, truly love, if only....

She sighed one last time before deciding to stop feeling sorry for herself. There was always next year. For her, there would always be a next year.

Her tail whipped and flicked around her with the last traces of frustration as she inspected her fingernails. Still pretty. Still sharp. She rose finally and her wings flexed with a mind of their own, eager to catch the wind. There'd be no rest for the wicked tonight. She still had her quota to meet; two more souls would have to be dragged to The Depths or she would get in trouble again.

That's when Xandra, Damned Temptress of the Night, spied the impossible. Him. She nearly tumbled off her rooftop.
~~~

To my ear, the second version sounds better. Does it for you?

-PF

 

[PacoFear]

Okay, so I finished it and liked it. You've applied imagination here and done what few bother to do - invented a plot. Bless you for that!

With respect to the delivery, writing is an evolutionary process. If refining your craft is one of your goals, read more. Write more too.

Here are a couple of nitpicks you can noodle over for now so this feels more concrete for you:

1) In the space of four Lit. pages you have 44 "grins, grinning, grinned" etc. That's just too many grins. How about smirked? Half-smiled? Arched an eyebrow? Or maybe her eyes glimmered with amusement? You get the idea.

2) On your first page, you have four "mind-shattering"'s. Too many of those too.

3) Re-read your restaurant scene. The restaurant is described as affluent (improper word choice but conveys the concept - perhaps opulent was the one you were going for?) but Xandra is pouring the wine, she's twisting the wine open, she's eating roast chicken, and she's doing it with her fingers. None of these things happen at a fine restaurant. For Angus's part, his observation on the wine was painful: "It tasted amazingly good, he didn't realize wine could taste so good he thought as he set the glass down." Okay, I'm not going to say this to be cruel, I just want to lay it out there and have your hear it from someone who sees your promise: your lack of knowledge/experience in the dining area shines through. Worse, it's hurting your story. Consider getting rid of the scene or fixing it.

For the minor stuff like 1) and 2), I suggest doing what I do. After I've finished writing, I set my stuff down for a couple of days and come back to it. My own writing quirks jump out at me more. Frankly, I'll throw your editor under one side of the bus too. He/she should have been pointing this stuff out to you.

Let me circle back to where I started so you're not bummed. All in all, the story was a good one and I think it's a nifty start for a series. I did like it, Acal. As far as I'm concerned, you have the most important thing a writer needs: something to say.

Your voice can only get stronger.

-PF

 

[Acal]

Thanks for all that, that was exactly what I needed!

With the first paragraph, I usually have a lot of problems with it sounding fluid. And a lot of what I write sometimes it happens in the middle of the night so i'm usually half asleep. Lol bad habit I know and with the word usuage. That is probably the biggest problem I have with my writing is serious over use of a word.

Would anybody else like to comment?

 

[jacks4u]

Mty two cents worth.

Acal,

HI, I'm glad you decided to share your story with us. Personally, I'm not much of an author - 2 stories here, one of those in the mid 3's, and the other doing much better. I am, however, an avid reader, and know what I like, what draws me out of a story, what pulls me further in: these are the things I'll mention here.

Personally, I'm still learning to write good fiction, and know how hard it is to get good feedback from typical readers. They can be quite cruel, or exceedingly generous with praise, but usually don't go into enough detail to be actionable. Here it's quite different, as the goal is to get actionable feedback - information you can take with you to your next and subsequent writings. Often the comments here can be quite blunt, and some people may be, or have been, offended by harsh comments or criticism. Yet, to honestly critique another person's work, their dream-in-writing, their child, if you will, there has to be a directness to the comments. I'll try to be direct, specific, and non-punishing. At the same time, I'll not bother to nit-pick at things like spelling and punctuation - these are mostly mechanical in nature, and even a 'fair' editor will catch them.

I've just started reading, and am struck right away by the repleted use of some words or praises:

Angus reached back and rubbed his neck again, the fiery prickles were irritating him, since it felt like there was something behind him. He brushed it off, he was so exhausted that he just wanted to get home, get clean and fall asleep. Walking towards the station, he was aware of something following him. He only had one more block to go to get back to the station, the truck just had to break down right there he thought. What a week, he thought while sighing to himself.

Xandra kept her distance from Angus who continued rubbing the back of his neck, she knew it was him. It had to be since she felt a pulling attraction towards him, she'd have him naked and in bed in less than two hours she thought.

Reaching the firehouse, he walked inside and dropped the hose off, while looking around the empty firehouse he was finally off duty. Everybody else was still out and dealing with the fire. He went to pull off his protective gear but stopped when he heard a voice, it sounded strange but seductive. He dropped his hands from the jacket and walked back outside towards his car where he thought he had heard the voice.

Xandra grinned wickedly, her features morphing slightly, hiding her otherworldly appearance as Angus approached her. The suggestion she planted in his mind was working she thought.

As far as the 'He thought, she thought' repetitions, generally, readers get the gist of these moments, without the author having to attribute every single thought or word to one character or the next. Trust your readers to understand who's thinking or saying what. But certainly, if there's doubt about who said or thought what, by all means, give an attribution. For instance:

"Hey, Fuck you!" Jill yelled as the potential John sped away. Fucking bastard.

Her best friend, Tanya, walked briskly across the street. "What's wrong, babe? That asshole have a problem with the arrangements?"

"No, nothing like that. The fucker wanted a whole night for the price of a blowjob."
​

Perhaps a poor example, but you can get the idea - not every thought or word has to be attributed.

Thus far, I've seen a couple sentences like this:

Finally he was home with the hottest woman he had ever met, he pushed open the door as she followed him into his house.

.
This pulled me out of the story, while I figured out what was going on.

Generally speaking, a sentence contains but a single thought: Finally he was home with the hottest woman he had ever met. or two, related thoughts: He pushed open the door as she followed him into his house.

And the very next sentence:

Her gaze seemingly burn through his clothes and scorching his back.

I was cautioned by one of my English teachers: lists should contain like items: Burning and scorching. Even if it's a list of only two things.

Here I had trouble with placement of the characters, and other things in the scene:

He grinned ferally and led her down the hall of his house to the master bedroom, she looked around at the rather manly room. No paint in this room, it was all natural with dark stained wood and a massive, old black wood bed with black silken sheets, which he pulled off the bed.

She pulled him towards her body and pulled open his coat, pushing it off his thick shoulders before dragging his shirt up and over his head, while her nails dragged across his damp skin. Her girlfriends were going to be so jealous when she brought Angus down with her. Her breath caught as she studied his raw masculine chest, damp black hair flattened against his bronzed broad chest. He had hard pecs and sharply defined six-pack abs.

She almost drooled, but succubus don't drool, their prey does. The charcoal mixed with his sweat smelt hellishly good, the rich smell of wood smoke coming from his skin was a delight. She noticed him looking at her, knowing that he had stunned her. That won't do, can't let him be in control just yet, she thought.

Here, she's pulling his clothes off, yet:

"Lay down on your chest Angus, I got just the thing to make you relax," she said as she walked over to him.

Then:
[/QUOTE]He grinned and laid flat on his chest, the cool silk under his skin cooling his inflamed flesh. She straddled his hips, relishing the feel of his tight, hard ass under hers as she reached up and began digging her fingers into his tightly packed muscles. The sudden release of tension made him moan as a rush of pleasure flooded through him.[/QUOTE]
But wasn't it: "black silken sheets, which he pulled off the bed."?

It's quite hard, I know, to separate yourself from your writing. With me, I'm always in either 'writing' or 'editing' mode, and have to force myself to read through, and look for this sort of thing. Several folks here have advised me: when you think you're about done with a story, read it out loud. start to finish. It's so easy to get wrapped up in the trees, you don't see the Forrest...

Well, I've got to crash - it's like 5:am and I'm wiped out. A couple of last thoughts:

I really do like your story thus far, it's built around an interesting premise. Of course, I haven't finished reading it yet. Most of the issues I've seen thus far would have been caught by a reasonably competent editor. Literotica has many decent volunteer editors. One, I'm sure, would be glad to help out.

More to come,

Jacks

 

[Penelope Street]

Hi Acal,

While I think you have a workable plot and decent characters, the presentation doesn't really let their story shine the way it could.

Here's an example of a particularly awkward sentence:
She wondered what he was doing out here as she looked into his mind, she was going to have him tonight she thought, as she looked through his soul.
Notice how she wonders something as she looks into his mind and then thinks something else as she looks into his soul?

For me, redundancy and lack of focus were major issues with the narration style. Here's another example:
Angus reached back and rubbed his neck again, the fiery prickles were irritating him, since it felt like there was something behind him. He brushed it off, he was so exhausted that he just wanted to get home, get clean and fall asleep. Walking towards the station, he was aware of something following him. He only had one more block to go to get back to the station, the truck just had to break down right there he thought. What a week, he thought while sighing to himself.
Why are we essentially told twice that he's going to the station? Also, he thinks there's something behind him, then there is someone behind him, which he then proceeds to ignore. To top it all off, he thinks twice at the end about things unrelated to the heart of the paragraph.

Unrelated to style issues, this paragraph is also an example of head-hopping. Though not strictly against any rules, it's usually best not to be inside multiple character's minds in the same scene. A good rule of thumb is to stick with the character who is changed most by the events of the story. In this case, that's Angus. I think it was a mistake to ever put the reader in Xandra's head. Showing us her intentions from the outset lessened the opportunity to build any real suspense.

His white aura almost blinded her as she looked through twelve of his lifetimes, all of them were noble and honorable pasts, he was either a protector or a warrior, when she looked at the last life she pulled out. In the last life, he was a Roman Centurion fighting against barbaric Gauls.
This is a clever way to present a reincarnation element to the reader, though I was curious why his soul would be idle for so many centuries? Also, did reincarnation really play a major role in this tale- that is, could the story have unfolded in the same way had Angus been without past lives?

By the time I got to the start of the first explicit scene, I was fairly certain what would happen and didn't feel compelled to read on. I think you have plenty of imagination, but the narration style didn't convey the story with all the intensity it could have had.

Thanks for sharing your story with us. I do hope you find some of our comments useful.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[Acal]

Thanks for all your comments guys! This is really helpful to me as a writer to know where i've gone wrong and to fix these little small things and sometimes big things.

 

[jacks4u]

Acal,

I just can't seem to get into your story. I did read a little further, I suppose about where Penny mentioned loosing interest. I have a few final thoughts that might help out:

1) You seem to loose the story in flowery description, at times. This is fine for the places that need description, at other times, the reader should be able to fill in the missing pieces, and that's more powerful than any words a writer could pen. Let me give an example:

Her perfect breasts that he just wanted to reach out and caress in which he was about to do, before she ruthlessly yanked his protective trousers off.​

As the story goes, he's a Fireman, coming in from a fire - Of course, he's gonna have on fireman clothes - including "Protective pants". But there's more here as well:

But there's more here as well:
2) Your words at the beginning of that sentence actually seem to belong to the middle of the thought. The complete sentence kind of turned inside out. It helps me sometimes, while I'm writing, to imagine I'm in the scene, as one of the characters, doing the things I want that character to do. I then write down my imaginary experiences, and perceptions, in order and as I'd like to describe it to a reader.

By the way, is English your native language?

Hope I've helped,

Jacks

 

[Acal]

Yes it is my first language. And thanks you have helped this is going to help me a lot in the editing process

 

[PacoFear]

Incidentally Acal,

There's a couple of semi-obvious connections to be made between your characters that you could use in your story's dialogue:

Fireman <--> creature of the burning planes
Rescuer <---> temptress who needs to be saved

Just lobbing them at you in case you haven't already had these thoughts.

Carry on,

-PF

 

[Acal]

Thanks I hadn't ever heard of Fireman as a supernatural creature before

 

[PacoFear]

Thanks I hadn't ever heard of Fireman as a supernatural creature before

::rubbing forehead::

I can't tell if you're kidding or not so I'll lay my thinking out for you.

1) You've paired a creature whose aspect includes fire with a fireman.

2) She's also damned and looking for a bit of rescue/redemption from her empty existance. He's a professional rescuer.

Both of these connections are fodder for some dialogue that will pass for clever. Good lord man, make use of it.

-PF

 

[jacks4u]

Acal,

What Paco is trying to say, is that there seems to be a natural relationship between your characters, that could be exploited better. For instance, what if your succubus were to start fires, then hang out, and play Damsel in distress - when he rescues her, she beds him - to him it <might> be viewed as a 'thank you' fuck, while to her, it might be the thing needed... There are many more plot bunnies in there.

One thing I'd definitely do, were this my story - print it out, and read the hard copy. For myself, I can't separate reading and writing, when it's my story and it's up on the screen. I start to read or proofread, and find myself typing in corrections. next thing I know, I'm 5 paragraphs from where I started, it's all changed, and I still haven't given it a good read. Take a pencil with you and make notes in the margins, if you must. But read it through. Then make any final corrections. Other people do this differently, but whatever. The idea is to separate yourself from the editing process long enough to see how the different parts and pieces of your story fit together. How it sounds, what it looks like to your mind's eye, whether it's as you intended it to be.

Another thing that helps, but isn't exactly writing: stop by the Story Discussion Circle frequently, when there's a story up for critique, have a go at it - let others know what you think of their writing, pay attention to what other commenters think of the story at hand. Reading, writing about what you read, and reading what others write about what you read, while not exactly an [authorly] thing, will give you knowledge to bring back to your writing. Even if it doesn't, it can't hurt.

Jacks