stories told in English where most of the dialogue actually happens in another language?

[joy_of_cooking]

Has anyone written a story in which people speak another language, and their other-language dialogue is quoted in English?

I'm writing a story where the MMC does not speak English fluently and is experiencing a sort of culture shock upon moving to a place where nearly everyone is a monolingual English speaker. I want the reader to be very aware of the language barrier between the MMC and his new neighbors. It's a big part of his loneliness, and a big part of what draws him to the FMC (who can understand Mandarin).

But this leaves me in the odd position of writing a story where everything is told to the reader in English, but actually a lot of dialogue is not in English. This is way beyond the occasional profanity or proverb, where I can quote the original Chinese and then discreetly repeat the sentence in English as a translation. They have entire conversations in Mandarin, or sometimes mixed conversations where he's speaking to her in Mandarin and she's replying in English. Or scenes where he and his daughter use quick bursts of Chinese as a back channel in front of monolingual English speakers.

Stuff I'm trying:

1. Outright saying "Switching to English," "said in Mandarin," etc.
2. Making his English quite broken, and his Mandarin (quoted as English text) much more correct, nuanced, and complex.
3. Sometimes having him point or circumlocute or use words that are correct in denotation but inappropriate in connotation.

Any other ideas? Tips, tricks, experiences?

 

[ElectricBlue]

Any other ideas? Tips, tricks, experiences?

I'd probably go #2, but don't overdo the broken English element. A hint goes a long way, once you've set up the scenario and readers get what you're doing.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I did a series of stories about ex-pats hooking up with locals set in mainland China. For three of them the Chinese characters were university educated and proficient in English. For one story, I tried to write two characters with only minimal proficiency in each others languages. This was the result.

In my first draft, I had the problem that, however 'realistic' I made her speech to what someone with only (low grade) high school English would actually say, it still felt very 'Me Love You Long Time' stereotypical type stuff. I solved the problem by raising his language proficiency (again still only to love level) and having everything done in Mandarin. I didn't need to change that much as her English utterances also pretty much matched the natural Mandarin grammar for someone dumbing down their speech for a foreigner.

 

[mildlyaroused]

I'd tend to agree with @ElectricBlue on this count, in that #2 is the most seamless. If you managed to make it so that your readers implicitly knew which language was being spoken, that would be quite an achievement and it would come across as very skillfully done. Very often the context of who the character is talking to should be enough. It's also the riskiest, though... you don't want your audience doing double-takes while they're reading.

You could also put Mandarin speech in English, but in italics - or with some other distinguishable feature. This feels at least a little smoother than outright saying "he said in Mandarin." Once you've established what the italics mean, readers will remember. Though I suppose this runs into difficulty when using italics in the ordinary sense, and it doesn't look as nice in my opinion.

"I don't care what he says about me," is Mandarin.

"I don't care what he says about me," is English.

 

[Bamagan]

I'd probably use some kind of bracket system [ ] { } | | to indicate that what's being said is a translation of a different spoken language. If you're planning to include the actual original words in the text as well, it'll probably be pretty obvious to most readers what's going on when a block of foreign language is followed by [words]. Especially if some ornery bystander starts complaining, "Speak English!"

 

[Bramblethorn]

#1 usually works well IME. I have a couple of Courtney Milan books where language-switching is part of the conversation, and that's how she usually handles it:





If it makes sense for one of your characters to have broken English, by all means use that as part of the characterisation, but I wouldn't do it just for the sake of indicating which language they're speaking at the time, and I suspect a lot of readers will just think his dialogue is inconsistent.

 

[THBGato]

Oh, great thread! I've got a story gestating with a romance between a Gitana and a non-binary Brit, neither of whom really speak each other's language. So some great tips here. I particularly like Bramblethorn's approach.

 

[Agent0069]

In my “Two Backpacks” story I wore with the thought in mind that “They are speaking some vague Eastern European language” (wouldn’t even bother specifying which one). But it’s mostly acknowledged in a small sentence in a flashback about a heroine that “her English was rather well,” since most other time characters are speaking with one another and have no language barrier.

I think that either should work - from specifying the language, to marking foreign language with cursive, to just going Tolstoy’s style and have half the page written in foreign language, and it’s not your concern if the readers happen to not understand French, or, in your case, Mandarin.

 

[TheLobster]

Option #2 combined with @mildlyaroused's suggestion is the only sensible approach, especially when the foreign dialogue is extensive. Introduce the convention by mentioning it once that "he spoke in Cantonese" next to the cursive dialogue, and then stick to it throughout. Saying the language explicitly whenever the characters switch will get very tiring very quickly. It's also super jarring because it either retroactively changes the meaning of a piece of dialogue the reader has already read, or forces you to break it unnaturally just to insert the language tag.

Leaving the dialogue untranslated is only an option for languages you could reasonably expect your readers to get the gist of, so maybe German, Spanish, or French. Anything else and you'll lose them.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

If they're having conversations with each other and no-one else is involved, is it important for the reader to know which language they're speaking?

I figure that if they're chatting away, it doesn't matter, and you don't need extra facts. But if they're going "what's the word in English?" or "you know, when someone does xxx", that is relevant to the conversation and makes clear they're trying to speak in English.

If the language is going to be relevant, then best to highlight it up front: Falling back on Mandarin, he continued, "Blah blah blah," despite knowing X wouldn't understand.

Your option 2 can work when done very well, but IME for flavour rather than indicating exactly what language someone is speaking. If it's important then it needs to be stated, possibly by X being frustrated or confused.

Now I'm speculating about a story where a bunch of the UN interpreters get used to having sexy chat via their headsets when they know their clients understand English perfectly well and don't want to have their own language interrupting it, which works fine on limited channels because others don't understand the relevant languages, until a new terp joins who just happens to be fluent in Estonian and Telugu or whatever...

Plot bunny, free to any home.

 

[oneagainst]

Option #2 combined with @mildlyaroused's suggestion is the only sensible approach, especially when the foreign dialogue is extensive. Introduce the convention by mentioning it once that "he spoke in Cantonese" next to the cursive dialogue, and then stick to it throughout. Saying the language explicitly whenever the characters switch will get very tiring very quickly. It's also super jarring because it either retroactively changes the meaning of a piece of dialogue the reader has already read, or forces you to break it unnaturally just to insert the language tag.

Leaving the dialogue untranslated is only an option for languages you could reasonably expect your readers to get the gist of, so maybe German, Spanish, or French. Anything else and you'll lose them.

And @mildlyaroused - #2 ... introduce that italics = Cantonese and then just continue the conversation. Don't whatever you do use broken English, that's a car crash because, as you know, Cantonese speakers are at least as elegant and subtle in their turns of phrase as English speakers, so render them as such. It also lets you play with language switches, e.g.:

"I mean, he looks like a moron, you can tell from his eyes. He's got such a sweet face. I wouldn't give you much past midnight before he's a slobbering mess."

I did a piece where the FMC doesn't understand German, and she's trying to help a skier who has injured himself who doesn't speak English. That was pretty fun, picking words and using actions that convey the meaning of the German (thank god for scheisse), but it only gets you so far. In the end, the FMC just learned fluent German on the spot, because it was easier, and there was a Hunt For The Red October tea scene moment where all of a sudden they both switched to what was rendered to the reader as English. If you're inside the character's head, then they think in the language that the story is in, regardless of their actual nationality, because you're seeing their thoughts instead of hearing their words.

 

[intim8]

1. Outright saying "Switching to English," "said in Mandarin," etc.
2. Making his English quite broken, and his Mandarin (quoted as English text) much more correct, nuanced, and complex.
3. Sometimes having him point or circumlocute or use words that are correct in denotation but inappropriate in connotation.

All of the above. My approach would be to clearly signal that he speaks and thinks in Mandarin, but to have his inner monologue be translated to clear English for the sake of the reader. If he is having a conversation in Mandarin, signal that, but make the English translation clear and correct. When he is actually speaking English, it's broken and hesitant, using the wrong word, mispronunciation or accent, whatever.

IOW, give him two voices, his native one and his English one. When the English is clear, we know he is actually speaking or thinkinig in Mandarin. When it is broken, he's actually speaking English. For more subtlety, sometimes he might try to think in English, and he thinks differently.

It can be tricky to establish this, but once done, it makes for less burden on the switching mid stream.

 

[jaF0]

You are assuming that your reader(s) would either be bi-lingual or would care to try and struggle to understand. Most likely would not and just backstroke out of the story. I always hated it when movies switched language and would often just stop watching. Exceptions might be some of the WWII flicks where the German or Japanese soldiers uttered a few words.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Closest thing I did to that was a latina character who just used words here and there, not whole sentances.

 

[intim8]

Closest thing I did to that was a latina character who just used words here and there, not whole sentances.

Somewhere in a WIP, I have a character that cums in Italian, and she doesn't even speak Italian.

 

[TheLobster]

Somewhere in a WIP, I have a character that cums in Italian, and she doesn't even speak Italian.

Mamma mia!

 

[Britva415]

I agree with previous technical advice on how to approach this. Option 2 modified with some of the additional suggestions.

However, beyond the technical handling of it in terms of typology or lampshading convention, I feel like the best conceptual approach the author can take to writing a story like this is either to not know or to pretend they don't know the non-English language, themselves. You're writing in English for an English reading audience. This is the best way to write in a way which serves the reader who really can't be counted on to know anything about that language.

 

[Norway_1705]

Mamma mia!

According to The Name Of The Rose (Umberto Eco, 1980) add only imprecations and profanities is the worst (as if in Spanish "Caramba, hijo de perro, de puta madre").
Obviously Lobster is just joking but it triggered something to me.
Maybe your Mandarin character try to exprime "something" unspeakable in other languages?
Like a hypothetical idea, which is so weak in English, or some activity (in my language there is no name for "rimjob")?

 

[Norway_1705]

I often lived the situation, when I can't understand the people (in airport, in restaurant, in a resort) but I try to explain out of my chest.
The good people always try to understand. They stare, watch, try to guess.
The bad people shrud and walk away.
I'm just an idiot, I know.
But Antonio Banderas in 13th warrior movie, learned Viking while traveling.

I ask you; if two lover belong to different civilization, soon or later they "build" a common language of they both? one will say "and now your thing, Sayonara Arigato" and the other "wait, je voudrais encore ta bite maintenant"?

 

[Norway_1705]

"in a non-written civilization there are no mistakes" (mcLuhan 1974).
Foreign words? What do you means, this is English the most mixed language of the world!
The word orgasm and Democracy is Greek, passport and portmanteau is French, risotto is Italian, cunnilingus is Latin, MI casa es su casa, Sushi shivari bukkake is Japanese, thunder is German, ghost is Dutch, succubus is Latin, intelligentsia is Russian, caucus is Irochian, Tianxia is Mandarin.
Or maybe the option is, add a word or a phrase in Mandarin (or Klingon or Hobbit) and teach to readers "qo WA ju gy ke xu" means "I wish to eat you pussy for hours" in a new language madeup of the two.

 

[Norway_1705]

Other option; the silent one.
We writers often let any character to speak, and we must stop someone with inhibitions or phusucal gags or muzzles.
But
With a character who cannot speak because of the language, you gain a situation new and intriguing.
An astronaut reached by others. An elf captured by orcs. A farm daughter kidnapped by Cheyenne tribe. A princess captured by raiders (vikings, Hungarians, Berbers)
Each one may be involved in sex. Reluctance, non consent, or contrariwise thankful for save llife you muscular stranger (the real story of Thanksgiving).

 

[StillStunned]

I ask you; if two lover belong to different civilization, soon or later they "build" a common language of they both? one will say "and now your thing, Sayonara Arigato" and the other "wait, je voudrais encore ta bite maintenant"?

Speaking from experience: yes. The redhead and I communicate in a mixture of three different languages with a sprinkling of our own made-up words and phrases.

Other option; the silent one.
We writers often let any character to speak, and we must stop someone with inhibitions or phusucal gags or muzzles.
But
With a character who cannot speak because of the language, you gain a situation new and intriguing.
An astronaut reached by others. An elf captured by orcs. A farm daughter kidnapped by Cheyenne tribe. A princess captured by raiders (vikings, Hungarians, Berbers)
Each one may be involved in sex. Reluctance, non consent, or contrariwise thankful for save llife you muscular stranger (the real story of Thanksgiving).

I have a scene in one of my stories where two people don't speak each other's language. Aided by a bottle of brandy and a very tenuous grasp of a shared language they manage to make it work. It was one of my favourite scenes to write.

 

[oneagainst]

Speaking from experience: yes. The redhead and I communicate in a mixture of three different languages with a sprinkling of our own made-up words and phrases.

One of them is the Language of Love, right?

 

[BrokenSpokes]

I have a story where the MC is Mexican-American. I have several scenes where Spanish dialog is dropped by her or various members of her family and I just use Spanish. Most of the line can be understood by context clues, but I like having either a little mystery for the readers or they have to do the work of using google translate to see what was said.

Also in my story Beyond the Red Room, one of the MCs swears a lot in Hindi and I used the Devanagari script for flavor. Google translate will again provide readers who want the extra bonus lines.

 

[Norway_1705]

Aided by a bottle of brandy and a very tenuous grasp of a shared language

Oh, yes. Brandy, Rum/Rhum/Ron in the Caribbeans, and whatever between a French chasseur de Bois and a young irochian princess in 17th century Quebec.
Wow, thank you. Seriously, you triggered a dozen of tales for me to write, all about the "we don't understand each other"
Or maybe each one of us speak his only unique language (idiolect?), only me and my son we say "be the Farce be with you", only me and my wife we say "and dot dot dot" (mamma mia the Movie, song "Honey Honey"). Only me and my brother say "you have une Charte Blanche" and "to the previous Statu Quo Ante" (is "Statu").