Stop having kids ... just fucking stop

[Seattle Zack]

I am so tired of these breeder cows that keep squirting out children with no regard for the consequences.

Are you fucking stupid? Never heard of birth control? Just fucking stop it, goddamnit.

No one wants your bastard children. We, as a society, have to pay for it with our tax dollars. The stupidity that you've demonstrated by bringing these squalling little rodents into the populace have already denounced your inadequacy as parents.

One hundred thousand children are waiting to be adopted, yet you continue your egomaniacal selfishness by squirting out two, or three, or four carbon copies of yourself, that you cannot afford to feed or clothe or educate. Then you expect the government to step in and pay for your medical bills for childbirth, and pay for your childcare expenses, just so we have the pleasure of watching your little bastards become car thieves and petty criminals.

Jesus fucking christ on a Harley with a sidecar. I've managed to survive four decades on this planet without spawning, and I'm a drunken idiot, so I know it's not that difficult. Women lie about birth conrtol all the time, so it's a man's responsibility. Women who get pregnant do so by choice. The problem is, the laws are on their side, so they can lie and defraud men without fear of repercussions.

Child support payments can be a lucrative career, it's very true. But what about the kids? The pattern repeats itself. Kids who come from teenage moms are much more likely to get pregnant themselves. Take a lesson. Successful (rich) people, male or female, almost never have kids at at early age.

So fucking stop, would you? You breeder cows that crave children .... try establishing a career first, then squirt out as many as you want. We pay more in tax dollars for the children of these moronic breeder cows than we do for libraries, or schools, or universities, or prisons.

 

[Xelebes]

I'm a child of a "breeder cow". I don't know if I am to be offended or not.

 

[Guest]

Well, there's a thread starter that incites to violence, if ever I saw one.

Zack, honey, so glad you called your self a drunken idiot. In my book, that goes a long way.

Oh, btw, I stopped at two (and made damn sure of it). My kids are not bastards, and we can afford to clothe and educate them - without taking a penny in benefits. Both of our girls were planned, the first born two years after we married. Oh, and I'm in the UK anyway. Does that exonerate me from your rant, and not make me a breeder cow? I do hope so.

Seriously, I can see your point. I even feel the same way to a certain degree. I just wouldn't have expressed myself quite as colourfully as you.

Interesting post, though. I can see this being quite some thread. Good for you!

Lou

 

[sweetnpetite]

We pay more in tax dollars for the children of these moronic breeder cows than we do for libraries, or schools, or universities, or prisons.

Now that's a downright moronic lie. Whatever your education level, you don't know shit about women or people for that matter. And you don't know shit about the national budget- because that is an absolute crock. >>>explitive deleated<<<

Congratulations, you've finally made my ignore list.

I can only guess that you must hate your own mother as well. Either that or she's a fucking saint.

Sweet- penniness never married mother of three.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I was going to wax angrily about this, but eh. I'm a bastard child, the father left when I was just born. My mom received no child support from the asshole and worked to support me by working long hours as a maid for rich fuckers. The man pushed for her to get pregnant and then split when the reality of a child hit.

As the sole child of such "state-draining breeder cow" (who tried her damndest not to take state money when she could work around it even when it meant me being a latchkey kid when she had to work 16 hour shifts as a legal clerk) I don't seem to hold any massive ideal for impregnating the masses. Furthermore, I worked my ass off to make it to a good University solely on the merit of my grades and extraciricular work. And then to Grad School.

Perhaps my mom and I are lumped into your larger viewpoint, perhaps we are exempt, perhaps your rant is rather part of the Harvey Danger rant "the morons breeding and feeding". I don't really know. I'm just going to say the latter and leave the matter without getting all indignant. It's nicer all around that way.

 

[Guest]

normally i would stay out of a thread like this. howevah, being a single breeder cow of two children i feel like i have the right to say how i feel.

if i werent proud, i would go down and file for welfare, but they dont let college students have welfare. if i werent proud, i would apply for food stamps, but again, the same applies. i am trying and take personal affront from some of your statements...this is not a situation i relish, nor would i wish it on anyone else.

you dont know all the circumstances for divorced/single moms...though because i am who i am...im giving a benefit of doubt in this instance. its good to voice your opinion, thats what our foundation is, but i would tread carefully. and that, is my opinion.

 

[TheWriter]

In principle, I agree. We have too many people to support with the way we live today. If we could actually be more helpful to others around the world, I don't think it would be as much of a problem.

But people aren't usually big on helping other people, not on that scale anyway.

Assuming that I understand who you're actually aiming this rant at, I would suggest that they don't for the most part have access to the internet, and therefore cannot benefit from vented bile.

 

[SensualCealy]

I agree with Tat on this one, it is one thing to have kids during a marriage, then have a marriage go sour and become a single parent.

To be single, get pregnant and live off the system is another.

I have two kids after marriage, still married and we are doing our best at giving our kids as much as we can.

I work in a small ice cream shop, you may have heard of it, Dairy Queen. I have a college education but decided staying home with my kids to raise them (hubby does quite well at his job). I do see alot of women come in the store ( it's a treat shop, not a place to have a meal) that I know personally. Some have money, some don't, if I wasn't working there and getting a discount I could never come in as often as they do. Yet their kids are dirty, some are on assistance, one family I give clothes that my kids out grow to etc. The money spent on ice cream could by a couple boxes of laundry detergent to wash their stinky clothes. It saddens me more then it angers me that these kids are taught a lifestyle they will hopefully fight against their whole lives.

jmo,C

 

[minsue]

Women who get pregnant do so by choice.

Even the best birth control is effective 99.7% of the time. Now that's pretty damned effective, but that leaves 3 pregnant women out of every thousand. The effectiveness of condoms is somewhere in the 80s percentagewise. So you've got at least 10 women out of every hundred pregnant. Or, looking at it differently, you can get pregnant 10-15 out of every 100 times you fuck. You're lucky you don't personally have to play those odds, Zack.

And really, how do you know you're not a father? Climb down off that high horse before you hurt yourself.

 

[cloudy]

Re: Re: Stop having kids ... just fucking stop

Even the best birth control is effective 99.7% of the time. Now that's pretty damned effective, but that leaves 3 pregnant women out of every thousand. The effectiveness of condoms is somewhere in the 80s percentagewise. So you've got at least 10 women out of every hundred pregnant. Or, looking at it differently, you can get pregnant 10-15 out of every 100 times you fuck. You're lucky you don't personally have to play those odds, Zack.

And really, how do you know you're not a father? Climb down off that high horse before you hurt yourself.

Hear, hear.

As a former "breeder cow" I raised a daughter all by myself, without a fucking penny in assistance, and guess what, dipshit? That same daughter just graduated from college, that she paid for by winning scholarships and working, and will be starting on her masters degree in the spring.

Grow up.

 

[rgraham666]

I've heard this horse shit before.

Last time was another board. Same stuff though. 'yadda welfare moms yadda beer drinking sluts yadda yadda kick all those lazy never do well bastards off the public teat, let 'em starve yadda yadda yadda."

So I bought up my life. A reasonably successful one until I became mentally ill, a long and nearly lost struggle against it, and finally enough health to try to participate in life again. Still on a disability. Don't like it much but it beats living on the street.

The other person's reaction was "Well, it's OK in your case."

At which I pointed out that his original attack was against labels, 'those lazy never do well bastards'. The second a real person was involved, they changed their tune.

The point is we're all real people. We all have real pains, joys, fears and hopes. Some might fit a stereotype, but damn few.

But I understand where Seattle Zack is coming from. It's much easier to hate a label than to think. I try not to do such a thing myself, but it's a common human behaviour.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

There's another side as well to why I didn't show outrage. While I'm sure he would say in most of our cases (the ones who didn't keep breeding when they couldn't support them, who tried to make do without welfare, who fought the odds) are not who he is bashing and thought (possibly, after all I'm not a mind reader) commendable for their difficult efforts.

Still, there exist people that do exactly tailor to his stereotype. I know one myself. This person keeps getting pregnant with different men each time, does not bother raising them, commits felonies on a regular basis, and now is having each of her children taken away by the state because she is deemed legally unfit to raise a child.

That, on the other end of the spectrum of all of our cases, is a deplorable situation and person and well-deserving of scorn.

Just being balanced for once. Whether or not Seattle conforms to the viewpoint I have outlined is unknown, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until he says something amicusian.

 

[yui]

In the Great Book of Life where does it say that only rich people are successful? Now, would I need to look under the Hilton listing…or the Vanderbilts…or who? Where are the shining rich people examples of what human beings should be, eh?

As a potential breeder cow, I do think I have taken offense.

Perhaps you could look at it this way; do you get a tax refund? If not, would you accept one if you qualified for it? Even if you didn't "need" it just to pay your house payment? If the answer is yes to any of the questions, then fundamentally, it is no different than people who qualify for (and accept) food stamps and medical assistance. I think it's called entitlement by the federal government. The difference would be in that a great many of them actually do need the help.

You might read "Nickel and Dimed – On (Not) Getting By in America" by Barbara Ehrenreich.

Yui <-- College educated, not rich ergo not successful, future breeder of multi-lingual little babies with epicanthic folds.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The thing about a rant like this is that it's alwasy easy to hate people in generalities, whether you're talking about welfare mothers or ethnic groups or right wing fanatics or bleeding-heart liberals.

In fact, that's the way we make people hateable, by generalizing. When you take time to get down to cases and understand the specifics, we usually change our tune. Then it's "Well, maybe you're different, but the rest of those assholes..."

A big generalization is the bigot's first tool of choice. Whenever you see one you can be pretty certain that some sort of demogoguery is going to follow.

---dr.M.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

In some states, my home state I know for sure, welfare mothers recieve an extra pro rata amount in each check for each child they have, with no upper limit. There are cases of people who virtually stay pregnant, to increase what they make, it does happen.

Like almost everything you see on the news, the large percentage of women who struggle with being single moms and work long hours at McJobs to support themselves and their children never make the evening news. The samll percentage that have upwards of five children and are pregnant again always do. It leads to the impression that such abuse is the norm, rather than the exception to the norm.

To further skew people's perception, the vast majority of those who are abusing the system live in the capital city, as municipal benefits are better than county benefits. This allows people with an agenda, to take a "random" sampling of those on welfare and inflate the numbers of those with multiple children.

It would seem the most intelligent way to deal with it would be to simply cap the number of children for which an extra stipend is awarded. What happens then, however, is that you end up punishing the children for the crimes of the parent, if she gets pregnant again.

In any system, there will be graft. There will be those who abuse the system. It's inevitable. The question then becomes can you modify the rules to stop the abuses. The answer is no, because those who have made it their goal to abuse the system will find new ways to exploit it. You eventually fall into one of two camps, you either accept some abuse will occur, but the greater good is served by the system or you feel the system must go as it is unfair.

On which side of the divide you fall, depends greatly on your personal experience and world view. The only other option, is that smaller group who think the system can be Reformed to eliminate the worst of the abuses. This group is disliked by both the others, simply because reform would have to be drastic and inmany cases the dictates would seem almost punative to those who support the system. Mean while those who want it abolished consider your efforts something along the lines of putting a band aid on a severed limb.

It's not a simple question and there are no easy answers.

-Colly

 

[Guest]

Allow me to just say that Zack does make a pretty good case for abortion.


He shoulda been one.


Congrats, Zack. You just made my illustrious and ever growing ignore list.

 

[tolyk]

I am so tired of these breeder cows that keep squirting out children with no regard for the consequences.

Are you fucking stupid? Never heard of birth control? Just fucking stop it, goddamnit.

No one wants your bastard children. We, as a society, have to pay for it with our tax dollars. The stupidity that you've demonstrated by bringing these squalling little rodents into the populace have already denounced your inadequacy as parents.

One hundred thousand children are waiting to be adopted, yet you continue your egomaniacal selfishness by squirting out two, or three, or four carbon copies of yourself, that you cannot afford to feed or clothe or educate. Then you expect the government to step in and pay for your medical bills for childbirth, and pay for your childcare expenses, just so we have the pleasure of watching your little bastards become car thieves and petty criminals.

Jesus fucking christ on a Harley with a sidecar. I've managed to survive four decades on this planet without spawning, and I'm a drunken idiot, so I know it's not that difficult. Women lie about birth conrtol all the time, so it's a man's responsibility. Women who get pregnant do so by choice. The problem is, the laws are on their side, so they can lie and defraud men without fear of repercussions.

Child support payments can be a lucrative career, it's very true. But what about the kids? The pattern repeats itself. Kids who come from teenage moms are much more likely to get pregnant themselves. Take a lesson. Successful (rich) people, male or female, almost never have kids at at early age.

So fucking stop, would you? You breeder cows that crave children .... try establishing a career first, then squirt out as many as you want. We pay more in tax dollars for the children of these moronic breeder cows than we do for libraries, or schools, or universities, or prisons.

Who the hell made you judge jury and executioner? What makes you think you have the right to judge, seemingly, every single woman with kids?

You know what? I could rant on more, and probably come off sounding a great deal more intelligent than you, but I just realized that I have absolutely nothing to say to you.

 

[Guest]

Yep, I think Zack achieved his aim. Nothing like a bit of controversy to get everyone hot under the collar.

I'm with Luc here, and I'm also giving Zack the benefit of the doubt.

So many have a knee-jerk reaction and are incredibly quick to come down hard. Take a step back, chill, think about Zack's motivations, and then consider your own responses.

Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate here, I dunno.

No, that was not a pun, considering who I said I agreed with.

Lou

 

[oggbashan]

Why has no one mentioned that the men should have responsibility as well?

A few of the people I know that could be covered by this rant have been used and abused by men. That's how they get pregnant. Then he (or they) do a runner leaving her with the child. When she has recovered her figure he (they) are back again for free no-strings-attached sex. That is all they want and all she can offer.

It is abuse, often of women who have low self-esteem already, that pushes them further down into depression and despair. Breaking the cycle needs strength that the woman rarely has and any resistance can be beaten out of her.

The women are not the source of the problem but they bear the consequences.

Og

 

[cloudy]

Why has no one mentioned that the men should have responsibility as well?

A few of the people I know that could be covered by this rant have been used and abused by men. That's how they get pregnant. Then he (or they) do a runner leaving her with the child. When she has recovered her figure he (they) are back again for free no-strings-attached sex. That is all they want and all she can offer.

It is abuse, often of women who have low self-esteem already, that pushes them further down into depression and despair. Breaking the cycle needs strength that the woman rarely has and any resistance can be beaten out of her.

The women are not the source of the problem but they bear the consequences.

Og

Very good point. I can always trust you, Og, to come up with a reasonable, considered answer. It takes two to make a baby, but most times the woman is the one that is left with the responsibility. And I don't want to hear the birth control crap....none of it is effective all the time, just ask two of my kids who were concieved despite my best efforts not to. Doesn't mean I love them any less, just that they were surprises.

I get aggravated too with people that live off the system without contributing anything, and there are women out there that do just what Zack is ranting about. However, I think it's far from the majority of women that actually qualify for any kind of aid.

Let's be honest, here, folks. When my daughter was a baby, I qualified for AFDC. Do you know what I was eligible to recieve? Go on, take a guess.

$38 a month.

It wasn't worth my trouble to go down there every month, sit in that nasty office all damn day just to requalify. Even with my slightly-higher-than minimum wage job, I could make more than that in a day, so I didn't bother. No one's going to get rich off of Federal/State aid, and a good many can't live, even with the help.

 

[R. Richard]

Seattle Zack:
I read your rant. I feel that I can make an informed comment here.

I used to make my living collecting money for the man. Part of my job was to roam the streets at all hours. I saw 15 year old girls selling it on the street and having to give the money to a pimp (or have it beat out of them). It wasn't my business and I never interfered unless the pimp owed money to the man. (They be callin' me Willie Green on the street, which should give you some idea of how I operated. Wille Green is not a name, it is a title.) Most of the 15 year old 'ho's wound up on welfare, with illegitimate kids after they got to old to 'ho'. When you starte selling it at 15, you re ancient by 25 if not earlier.

I used to have to prowl the 24 hour places, mostly late night/early morning. They used to call the midnight to 8AM shift a MickeyD's 'the mother's shift.' Almost all of the employees were single mothers trying to feed their kids and taking a job no one else would take.

You might be careful who you criticize. Also, you don't want to be owin' the man money. You just might find yo'self dealin' with Willie Green.

JMNTHO.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Then you expect the government to step in and pay for your medical bills for childbirth, and pay for your childcare expenses, just so we have the pleasure of watching your little bastards become car thieves and petty criminals.

While I do agree that people who cannot care for the children they have don't need to have droves of children, I wonder what sort of a bubble you live in that makes you such an insensitive individual.

I know many single mothers just like myself who do not receive a dime of child support or state aid. If you only knew the incredible toll that childbirth and motherhood takes on a woman's body and mind, you might not be in such a hurry to insinuate that we're all clammoring to get knocked up to trap a man and defraud the government.

Like many women, I got pregnant on the pill; birth control pills which I was paying out of pocket $35.00 a month for, as I had no health insurance. At the time I was holding down two jobs just to make my rent and car payment. Though I never considered abortion as a personal choice, I couldn't have afforded to get one if I had. Do you have $500 in cash laying around? I didn't.

I had to rely on state medical care for my pregnancy because I was uninsured. But I paid taxes my whole adult life. This is why we pay into the welfare program, people. You hope to never need it. You pray it's never you. But you thank God it's there if you have to resort to it. Public Aid tried to make me take lots of other assistance, but I refused, thinking I might be taking it away from a disabled person who was unable to work.

Luckily my son's father had a good job and was able to help me. He paid a great majority of the medical cost which were not covered by public aid. But, I shudder to think how it might have been if I'd had some loser as a sperm donor, which many many women have.

All parents make sacrifices for their children, Zack, as I'm sure yours did for you. I don't know anyone who's just sitting around on welfare. But I sure know a lot of people who are working their asses off with no help from anyone at all.

 

[oggbashan]

In the UK the welfare benefits are much better and it is possible to live on them.

Even so, many people entitled to benefits, especially the elderly, do not claim, or if they do, do not claim all that they could claim.

The few benefit scroungers who work the system give a bad name to those people who cannot earn a living despite their best efforts. The disabled, mentally ill, handicapped or sick cannot help their conditions.

You cannot say to a seriously depressed person 'Snap out of it!' and expect it to work. You might as well say to a legless person 'Grow new legs!'. The legless person can be provided with artificial legs and trained to use them. The depressed person might be treated with drugs and support. Both might become employable as a result. There are others who will never be self-sufficient. Short of euthanasia there is no way that they could cease to rely on benefits even if they wanted to.

The 'typical' benefit scrounger is male, in his twenties, and working while still claiming benefit.

The 'typical' benefit recipient is female, elderly, and profoundly disabled - and depressed about being on benefits.

I have seen people, whom I would never employ because they would be incompetent even at collecting supermarket trolleys in a car park, pressurised into applying for jobs they could never be able to do and threatened with loss of income if they did not try to do a job, any job, even if they wouldn't last half a day before being fired despite their best efforts. If they are 'employed' even for half a day they are no longer 'long-term unemployed' and the statistics look better. After the half day their benefits are reduced because they are newly unemployed.

Or they are sent on useless training courses - one of my customers is constantly retrained. He tried bricklaying: his only completed wall fell down within half an hour. Plumbing: he set fire to the training workshop. Builder's labourer: he stuck his spade into a telephone cable and cut off 500 people's telephones. He is willing, hard-working, but completely and absolutely clueless. He is a very nice person who would help anyone willing to take the risk. No one dares! He hates being on benefits but he is unemployable even by a fast food joint as floor sweeper. His wife and son are just as bad at life. His son joined the army: he was sent home as useless after three days. The army doesn't usually realise that quickly.

I don't object to paying taxes to support the unfortunates of our society, the village idiots, the severely ill, the helpless elderly. I too get worked up about the scroungers even though I know they are a minute proportion. I count frequently pregnant single women as 'unfortunate' AND abused. Their condition makes me angry, not because they are claiming benefits, but because they are forced into a situation where claiming benefits is their only option.

Og

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Deep Breath...

Okay, I don't know Seattle Zack very well at all, but this thread reminded me of one many months back. His posts there impacted me enough to remember them even now and may shed a little light on why he feels so strongly.

Please understand, I do not condone the tone or slant of his rant as it was offensive to someone here I love very much, but I thought it only fair to toss in the little background of his that I know.


The Thread

Post 1:

I work for a non-profit agency that provides an after-school program for low-income kids in the south Seattle area, and I see this same kind of ignorance and stupidity every day. Our average client is a single mom, no college education, two or three kids by two or three different men, who was first knocked up at 20 years old.

Of course, the fees for the program are partially subsudized (by tax dollars, of course) but the amazing thing to me is that they refuse to acknowledge any responsibility for their actions, and expect the tax dollars to just fall into their laps to take care of these kids that they had no business having in the first place.

These kids, statistically, are about twenty times more likely to end up in jail than children born to college educated parents. Twenty years of incarceration costs about a million bucks (more tax dollars at work), last I checked.

We do what we can with the program, trying to provide some stability and life skills that the kids can use in adolescence, but it's a losing effort, looking at the statistics.

There's a reason I don't have kids -- one, I see no need to bring another consumer into an already overpopulated world with depleted resources, and two, I have no wish to pay a third of my income for the next eighteen years for a child I won't have any hand in rearing.

To claim that spawning, in and of itself, is some sort of noble calling is complete bullshit. Anyone truly responsible would make sure that the child will have a nurturing, caring, stable environment to grow in, and not expect some governmental agency to step in and take care of everything. Birth control is not that difficult. The naivete of bringing a child into the world that you're unable to care for is not only irresponsible but abusive.

Post 2:

Very true, Box, and that apple never falls far from the tree either. Children of women who had kids at an early age are almost ten times more likely to have children of their own in their late teens or early twenties.

And SnP, I find your sneering disregard for the work we do at our Boys and Girls Club absolutely pathetic. Once they're born, it's all right to lock them up, is that right? Prisons are one of the biggest growth industries in the past twenty years. Conservatives want as many little Christian prototypes as possible, then toss them away (or kill them, if you're in Texas) when they they don't turn out right.

I love the kids in our program; even as disadvantaged as they are, they're so smart, so full of promise. The things we've been able to provide, just in the past few months when the program's getting up and running, have been amazing. The Sonics donated thirty tickets to a game in January, and we took the kids. Only two had ever been to a pro sporting event before in their lives. In February, we went on a field trip to the Seattle Aquarium. In March, we're doing an overnight sleepover at the Museum of Flight, funded by Boeing.

We even have a college scholarship, for the kids who stay with the program and become instructors throughout high school. It's a way out of the cycle of poverty that cripples so many of the ethnically diverse communities in our country.

It's a fact that rich people have fewer kids, and poor people spawn like rabbits with little or no regard for the consequences on their kids. When I'm king, women who are on public assistance will be sterilized after the second child. At least that way, the social cost will be minimized.

Post 3:

Well, unfortunately, that's exactly what it means, SnP. Oh, sure, we've all read the uplifting stories in the women's section of the newspaper (the "Life and Arts" section, I believe it's called nowadays ... anyway, the one with all the recipies) about the brave high school senior who overcame the obstacles and graduated despite the burden of childhood.

There's no profile of the thousands of girls who turn to prostitution, or drugs, because of the situation they find themselves in.

I'm sure we all understand and appreciate the difficulties and sacrifices you've gone through to raise your own progeny, SnP, but why is it so difficult to admit that it might not have been the best choice? Maybe going to college (which was never an option once you had a child), actually planning for children rather than having them suddenly thrust upon you?

There are millions of women in this country in that exact situation. Women who are fully able and willing to give a child the environment that he or she needs to succeed, if only given a chance.

To absolve oneself of any responsibility for one's choices once the child is spewed forth seems to be exremely naive, in my view. Perhaps the "education" that should be rendered is the consequences of one's choice, and the life-changing outcomes that result, rather than a dogmatic mantra and a reliance on social services.

~lucky

 

[Liar]

Wow. Zack's complain the other day about too many reposted news articles and too little original thread topics by the authors spawned a few replies in the vein of "Then create oribinal threads instead of bitching about the lack of them." From me and others.

I guess he did.

#L