Stock Market Tanking

[REDWAVE]

If you follow the financial news at all, you know the stock market has been tanking lately. Except for a small gain yesterday, it's been dropping by more than a hundred points each day. For a long time, it was up above 10,000. Now it's barely above 9,000. Since the market players look ahead, at what they think will happen soon, this means big investors expect further downturns in the real economy over the next six months to a year. The fragile, jobless, profitless "recovery" is already faltering badly.

As I see it, the underlying problem is a collapse of business investment due to massive overproduction and overcapacity. Those in turn were caused by the wild excesses of the dotcom & telecommunications stock market bubble of the 1990's. That bubble burst in late 2000, leaving many companies with vastly more on their hands than they could ever hope to sell at a profit. Combined with that is the huge U.S. trade deficit, which requires the U.S. economy to suck up vast amounts of foreign capital to maintain itself. That was no problem during the "go go" years of the '90's. Now it's a problem. Compounding the problem is a related phenomena: the enormous amount of fraud in accounting practices, most notably at Enron, but really widespread throughout the "New Economy." This is causing a crisis of investor confidence which could well lead to a flight of foreign capital, causing a massive devaluation of the dollar and sending the whole worldwide financial system into a tizzy.

The global capitalist economy is collapsing. The opportunities for building a truly revolutionary mass movement have never been greater. Putting forward the slogan of "Guaranteed full employment at a living wage" should have wide resonance with the masses.

Put options, anyone?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I understand that people are eating less red meat. Guess that means cows are extinct.

 

[Nogard]

Your stupidity never ceases to amaze me

 

[Amused]

My good friend Martha told me it would be a good time to get out of the market...

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

The Depression. Sputnik. JFK dead. Watergate. Gas Crisis. Clinton's impeachment. ALL much, much better times for the socialists to sweep in and promise to put a chicken in every pot.

What's going to get you excited next? When "Buffy" finally gets cancelled?

 

[REDWAVE]

News!

Massive fraud has just been uncovered at Worldcom, according to CNN, to the tune of about $3 billion, the largest corporate fraud in history.

The capitalist system is a rotten, fragile house of cards, propped up by debt and accounting tricks. It will only take one good solid blow to bring it down.

 

[teddybear4play]

Re: News!

Massive fraud has just been uncovered at Worldcom, according to CNN, to the tune of about $3 billion, the largest corporate fraud in history.

The capitalist system is a rotten, fragile house of cards, propped up by debt and accounting tricks. It will only take one good solid blow to bring it down.

And it will take a lot more blowjobs than you can give to do it.

TB4p

Edit because REDWAVE fixed the figure.

 

[WriterDom]

The capitalist pigs are driving down the market to chase the working man out. There is a ton of money waiting to go in the market.

Wetting your panties over a 10 percent drop? It will see 10,000 again. Probably within the next two months.

 

[REDWAVE]

Blowjobs

LOL, teddybear-- after all, I only have one mouth.

 

[miles]

Re: News!

Massive fraud has just been uncovered at Worldcom, according to CNN, to the tune of about $300 billion, the largest corporate fraud in history.

The capitalist system is a rotten, fragile house of cards, propped up by debt and accounting tricks. It will only take one good solid blow to bring it down.

redwave's real world knowledge of politics and business is about the same as my sleeping Golden Retriever's.

Yes redwave, we do hurl insults your way. You deserve them

 

[koalabear]

But my defense industries stock is still moving up! Go get em W!

 

[Lancecastor]

The beauty of the stock market...

...is that it not only goes up...

but
it
also
goes
down.

Now that the US has done a virtual takeover of the world economy, we await your next collective fart of spending or hunkering down with a mixture of resignation, wry humour and rye.

Everything has a season.

Right now, It's a good time to pay cash for undervalued assets.

Last I checked, more companies and people are online, using more bandwidth than ever.

.Com will be back...if for no other reason than people want more than This.

LitLiveVideo...cumming soon!

Lance

 

[teddybear4play]

Re: Blowjobs

LOL, teddybear-- after all, I only have one mouth.

Yeah, and let us know when you connect it to your brain. Maybe then you won't delight in other people's suffering.

The market will come back up eventually. If it crawled back up to 10,000 after September 11, it can make it past this. Hell, if I had the money to do it, I'd buy now while prices are cheap.

TB4p

 

[REDWAVE]

Interest rates-- Japan-- replies

The repeated interest rate cuts by unelected autocrat Alan Greenspan have done little, if any, to stimulate the economy, and have merely served to stave off total collapse. Why? Because this recession (depression) is not due to a fall in consumer demand, as most are. (In fact, the one bright spot so far is consumer demand has remained fairly strong.) Instead, it's due to a collapse of business investment, which is not likely to be revived merely by a drop in interest rates. Who cares how low rates are as long as there aren't any profitable opportunities to invest in? Now rates are so low Greenspan has very little room to lower them any further. The U.S. economy (and thus ultimately the entire world economy) is now in the same position the Japanese economy has been for over a decade now. It remained mired in recession, even though the Japanese central bank lowered interest rates to 0% at one point. Japan was a harbinger of what the global capitalist system now faces: endless recession.

Even you morons should realize by now insults don't faze me, especially coming from the likes of you. For all the insults, not one person has offered an intelligent rebuttal of my cogent economic analysis.

TB, you'd make a good stockbroker. "Buy now-- stocks are a bargain!" And when the stock market goes down a lot further, you can say: "Buy now-- stocks are really a bargain now!" And you have it backwards (as usual): I don't take delight in other people's suffering, I'm trying to end their suffering. The capitalist system is the cause of their suffering-- the great majority of it, at least.

 

[Azwed]

Re: News!

Massive fraud has just been uncovered at Worldcom, according to CNN, to the tune of about $300 billion, the largest corporate fraud in history.

The capitalist system is a rotten, fragile house of cards, propped up by debt and accounting tricks. It will only take one good solid blow to bring it down.

uhhh 300 billion??

Try 3 billion which is still the largest corportate fraud ever but I don't think worldcom is even worth 300 billion.

 

[Ishmael]

Those in turn were caused by the wild excesses of the dotcom & telecommunications stock market bubble of the 1990's. That bubble burst in late 2000, leaving many companies with vastly more on their hands than they could ever hope to sell at a profit.

What calendar are you using? The dot-com bubble, and the market in general, started down in early 2000. Go read the charts, or are you engaging in revisionist history again?

Ishmael

 

[REDWAVE]

Even better

Early 2000, late 2000-- does it make a big difference? But you'll have to show me these charts. I didn't start noticing a lot of signs of major economic downturn until late 2000.

 

[teddybear4play]

Re: Interest rates-- Japan-- replies

The repeated interest rate cuts by unelected autocrat Alan Greenspan have done little, if any, to stimulate the economy, and have merely served to stave off total collapse. Why? Because this recession (depression) is not due to a fall in consumer demand, as most are. (In fact, the one bright spot so far is consumer demand has remained fairly strong.) Instead, it's due to a collapse of business investment, which is not likely to be revived merely by a drop in interest rates. Who cares how low rates are as long as there aren't any profitable opportunities to invest in? Now rates are so low Greenspan has very little room to lower them any further. The U.S. economy (and thus ultimately the entire world economy) is now in the same position the Japanese economy has been for over a decade now. It remained mired in recession, even though the Japanese central bank lowered interest rates to 0% at one point. Japan was a harbinger of what the global capitalist system now faces: endless recession.

I have to give you credit on a couple of things. First, that Greenspan is a buffoon, and second, that interest rate cuts alone won't revive business investment. What's needed is a decent tax cut that won't take a decade to kick in. Good ol' capitalism at work.

Even you morons should realize by now insults don't faze me, especially coming from the likes of you. For all the insults, not one person has offered an intelligent rebuttal of my cogent economic analysis.

I basically insult you for my own amusement. I like when you claim to take the high road, yet insult people, all in the same sentence. And I found several rebuttals in this thread alone; if you pushed your arrogance out of the way, you could see them, too. Just because you're blind doesn't make us stupid.

TB, you'd make a good stockbroker. "Buy now-- stocks are a bargain!" And when the stock market goes down a lot further, you can say: "Buy now-- stocks are really a bargain now!" And you have it backwards (as usual): I don't take delight in other people's suffering, I'm trying to end their suffering. The capitalist system is the cause of their suffering-- the great majority of it, at least.

I wouldn't say I was going to buy unless I felt I would make money. And you show me a society with no suffering, and I'll show you that you're a utopian who doesn't inhabit this little place called reality. Furthermore, capitalism is the reason why the U.S. is where it is: the most prosperous nation on earth. Argue that.

TB4p

 

[Ishmael]

Re: Even better

Early 2000, late 2000-- does it make a big difference? But you'll have to show me these charts. I didn't start noticing a lot of signs of major economic downturn until late 2000.

Then you should pay more attention. The charts are public domain, you can search to your hearts content at nasdaq.com that's where virtually all of the dot-com issues were listed.

Dates do make a difference, just as character does.

Ishmael

 

[rider]

Redtard

Where did you get your economy degree? What caused the Great Depression? Give me your take on it.

Who cares how low rates are as long as there aren't any profitable opportunities to invest in?

No profitable opportunities? None? Koala, send your profits back in, redtard says there are no profitable opportunities.

The capitalist system is the cause of their suffering-- the great majority of it, at least.

You really have no fucking clue, do you? One of the things many people hate about Americans is how much we have in material goods. Most homes have more than one television. Many have more than one computer. Most have more than 2 cars or trucks. Fast food places are everywhere. We build shopping malls so we can practice our evil capitalism in climate controlled comfort. We are so spoiled we spend billions on entertainment anually. Yes, I have lost thousands on the market in my 401(k) account. Everything started to fall to shit in the last 6 months of Clinton's term in office. Finally, though, I have seen an improvement. Many of the people I talk to are more confident about the economy than they have been for quite some time.

The global capitalist economy is collapsing. The opportunities for building a truly revolutionary mass movement have never been greater. Putting forward the slogan of "Guaranteed full employment at a living wage" should have wide resonance with the masses.

Yeah, everyone is jumping on your bandwagon, aren't they? Go ahead and explain to me what caused the Great Depression, why don't you?

 

[Azwed]

I still want her/he to explain the 300 billion dollar fraud at worldcom.

 

[teddybear4play]

Re: Redtard

Yeah, everyone is jumping on your bandwagon, aren't they? Go ahead and explain to me what caused the Great Depression, why don't you?

Why, capitalism, of course. It causes all wars, pestilences, famines, crime, suffering and death; is the main contributor to the success of the Backstreet Boys and the failure of the Chicago Cubs; and it strangles puppies in its spare time.

My father cashed out his 401(k) right after the Clinton Justice Department filed suit against Microsoft. I don't know if that's why he did it, but if he did, he's a genius.

TB4p

 

[REDWAVE]

So many shitheads-- so little time!

Ozwad, I already corrected the figure to $3 billion. It was just a typo.

TB, if you insult people for amuysement, that just shows what a truly pathetic person you are. I pity you.

Ishmael, you're famous for quibbling about petty details that have nothing to do with my main point, which is that the global capitalist economy is collapsing. You have no serious point there.

rider, the causes of the First Great Depression of the 1930's were about the same as the causes now-- a systemic failure of capitalism, collapse of business investment due to overproduction and overcapacity caused by the previous speculative frenzy. America's wealth is not due to capitalism, but to the enormous expansion of productive capacity made possible by industrialization, as well as its natural resources and favorable geographic position. Capitalism artificially impoverishes and immiserates huge numbers of people. Look at the Soviet Union, for instance: the restoration of capitalism plunged over half the population into poverty. They were much better off even under the Stalinist bureaucratically deformed workers state-- clear proof of the superiority of socialism.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Condescend much?

 

[SleepingWarrior]

Re: So many shitheads-- so little time!

. Look at the Soviet Union, for instance: the restoration of capitalism plunged over half the population into poverty. They were much better off even under the Stalinist bureaucratically deformed workers state-- clear proof of the superiority of socialism.

Better off? The reason they dumped Socialism is because 95% of the population was in poverty. The infamous breadlines started while the "Great Socialist" country was still clinging to those socialist ideals you are so fond of promoting.