Stimulus Package - Debate & Discussion

RightField

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It seems to me that the "idea" of a stimulus package has morphed into something completely different. I have not read the bill and haven't been paying close attention to it, but haven't seen any writeups about it in the newspaper either (what happened to "transparency in government" that Obama promised?).

From the short snippets I've heard on the news, it is now is a wet dream of liberal unrestricted spending for any and every program ever dreamed of by liberals.... and "stimulus" is a loosely defined word applied to it even though real "stimulus" doesn't seem to be behind it. One of the things they're doing with it is buying lots and lots of condoms for distribution, for example. I also heard that there were going to be new training programs, new social programs and large increases in funding for many social spending programs. All of these represent long term commitments that won't "go away" in a year or two or even 5, they're long-term claims on the productivity of our kids that aren't necessarily the best way to create growth and wealth in the future for our kids.

He originally talked about rebuilding our infrastructure. I can understand building a bridge that would be planned and then built and won't require any continued funding after the bridge is completed, but I can't understand the expansion of social programs that represents a significant and persistant increase in government spending for time immemorial.

It was nice that he stuck in a couple "bones" for the Republicans to keep them at the table and believing that there's some spirit of bipartisanship, but that irritates me because our Congressmen and women should be looking at every line item and saying "Is this the best use of our taxpayer money?"...and..."will this stimulate the economy and create jobs more than other alternatives?" rather than "this gives me some spending in my district so my constituants won't complain". Providing lots and lots of condoms probably leads to lots of "stimulus" behind closed doors, but not the kind we're looking for to bring the country back to economic strength.

There should be infrastructure investment and it should be things like bridges, expanded roads, rebuilding schools (that really need it), maybe some for competitions for new technology breakthroughs and things like that, not condoms and new spending on overbloated ineffectual union-dominated school programs that put the bulk of their new spending into hiring more "administration" that always seems to have familial relations with people already there or in politics.

Also, lets make it "transparent" so that we can see that it's not spirited away in a wave of corruption. This huge spending initiative is like publishing the long-lost map to Blackbeard's treasure in a national newspaper. Every scoundrel who can walk will be after it and, in the end, it will be best for all of us if the money is spent effectively and not hidden away in William Jefferson's freezer.
 
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Democrats: Let US help YOU stimulate your package!

Republicans: Go stimulate YOUR OWN Packages!

:p
 
It seems to me that the "idea" of a stimulus package and morphed into something completely different. I have not read the bill and haven't been paying close attention to it, but haven't seen any writeups about it in the newspaper either (what happened to "transparency in government" that Obama promised).

If you haven't read it and don't have enough interest beyond lip service to pay close attention to it, then what's the use of debate or discussion until you do? And since when does Obama control what newspapers decide to write about? If you have an issue with selective news coverage, take it up with the editors-in-chief or the publishers.

By the way, the portal to the transparency you might decide to read starts here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/
 
If you haven't read it and don't have enough interest beyond lip service to pay close attention to it, then what's the use of debate or discussion until you do? And since when does Obama control what newspapers decide to write about? If you have an issue with selective news coverage, take it up with the editors-in-chief or the publishers.

By the way, the portal to the transparency you might decide to read starts here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/

This man has a point. Seriously, get educated, then get back to us. :rolleyes:

Maybe subscribe to the Wall Street Journal......just saying
 
If you haven't read it and don't have enough interest beyond lip service to pay close attention to it, then what's the use of debate or discussion until you do? And since when does Obama control what newspapers decide to write about? If you have an issue with selective news coverage, take it up with the editors-in-chief or the publishers.

By the way, the portal to the transparency you might decide to read starts here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/

Pretty much exactly what I was going to post..

He hasn't taken the time to actually research the package, but wants to discuss and debate it as if he has a single clue, other than hearsay (wonder who he "heard" about it from?)....
 
Pretty much exactly what I was going to post..

He hasn't taken the time to actually research the package, but wants to discuss and debate it as if he has a single clue, other than hearsay (wonder who he "heard" about it from?)....

Apparently he gets all his news from Literotica...
 
I read "the plan" and no where did it mention lots and lots of condoms or funding overseas abortion clinics that were discussed in the news as part of the bill. What other surprises are in there? Did you read the bill? The actual bill isn't on the white house web site. Where is the bill?
 
Pretty much exactly what I was going to post..

He hasn't taken the time to actually research the package, but wants to discuss and debate it as if he has a single clue, other than hearsay (wonder who he "heard" about it from?)....

What he said was basically accurate. There are a lot of items that aren't part of "infrastructure" that are included in the bill. Of course he was just using the point to bash liberals as he always does, but the bottom line is the same.

It seems to me that the Bill has lost it's focus and I disagree completely with the rush to get it done as opposed to seriously planning out the best way to do it.
 
Did you read the bill? The actual bill isn't on the white house web site. Where is the bill?

Anyone have any new insights into the stimulus bill?

Ah. So you found the bill and read it thoroughly, then? Where'd you end up finding it? Can you link to it for people who haven't read it yet so they can discuss it with you? Can you tell us what your opinion is on what it's about, based on it's pointers and things of that nature?

Yes? No?
 
Well, I'm sure there's something I will like. After all, it's $850,000,000,000 of spending - more than what we've spent in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. I've heard that two or three times, so it must be true.
I'm also sure the Red Dog Democrats, budget hawks that they are, will just reject out of hand.
My knowledge is based on sound bites and AP reporting that is more focused on what both sides are saying rather than what is included in the measure. The tone of the AP stories are supportive.
 
Interesting.

THROWING AWAY money on bullshit wars on the other side of the fucking planet is just fine.

But actually reinvesting tax dollars in AMERICA is wrong!

WTF?
 
Here's one opinion about the stimulus from Sunday's Review-Journal


Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal

EDITORIAL: 'We wrote the bill'
With each passing day, the massive economic stimulus package being pushed by President Obama and congressional Democrats looks more like the vote-buying slop we've come to expect from Washington.

Hundreds of billions of dollars have been set aside for public works projects, such as bridge and highway improvements, because the president wants an injection of cash into the economy for materials and labor. But the Congressional Budget Office has determined that only 7 percent of the $356 billion in current infrastructure spending proposals would be spent this year, with 31 percent spent next year.

Meanwhile, congressional Democrats are showing no remorse in larding up the $825 billion bill with $50 million in arts subsidies, $200 million for teacher bonuses and a whopping $15.6 billion worth of Pell Grants for college students.

The legislation also would heap a multibillion-dollar bailout on states struggling with revenue shortfalls. Nevada Gov. Jim Gibbons, a Republican, has informed lawmakers that the state could see enough federal aid to provide a "partial or full reversal" of the higher education and state worker salary cuts he has proposed.

Such largess might spare college students and public employees from sacrifice, and it might very well deter big-spending legislators from enacting damaging state tax increases.

But beyond that, how does all this jolt the economy? How does this create the jobs needed to support a recovery? And how does propping up bloated state governments make their spending sustainable beyond the near future?

"Yes, we wrote the bill," said a glib House Speaker Nancy Pelosi in response to criticism that the concerns and suggestions of minority Republicans were not being heard. "Yes, we won the election."

House Republicans wisely are distancing themselves from this boondoggle. On Friday, they urged the president to stimulate the economy solely through tax cuts -- not frivolous spending. Their proposal includes slashing rates on those in the two lowest income tax brackets, making unemployment benefits off limits to the IRS, offering incentives to home buyers who make down payments of at least 5 percent and cutting taxes on small businesses.

That makes more sense than spending too much, too late. And it will do far more good if Americans don't have to pay interest on a federal debt bloated by wasteful spending.

This country's consumers and businesses are tightening their belts and saving where they can. It's time Washington did the same.
 
Interesting.

THROWING AWAY money on bullshit wars on the other side of the fucking planet is just fine.

But actually reinvesting tax dollars in AMERICA is wrong!

WTF?

I don't recall anyone saying anything about wars on this thread, or that spending money on them was "just fine."
We are talking about "reinvesting" tax dollars, though.
So tell us, Turd, what reinvestment in the stimulus package you most strongly support.
 
I don't recall anyone saying anything about wars on this thread, or that spending money on them was "just fine."
We are talking about "reinvesting" tax dollars, though.
So tell us, Turd, what reinvestment in the stimulus package you most strongly support.

Infastructure. When you just signed a huge mortgage, the first thing you should do is start improving the property.
 
How does that stimulate the economy?

Someone has to do the work, or did you think that the infrastructure fairies were just going to will new roads and bridges into existence?

1: Create jobs rebuilding our infrastructure
2: Workers on those jobs are paid for their labors.
3: Workers buy new 42" TV's to watch football on
4: the economy recovers.
 
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