Stating secondary categories? Opinions plz.

[MrIllusion]

Hello,

Ever since joining this site, I've been puzzled by the fact that we can only select one category for stories. I know that tags can somewhat alleviate that problem. Nevertheless, readers don't see them.

What happens when I have a story that contains (for example) incest and anal sex? Which category takes precedence?

I'm wondering if, after choosing what I consider to be the main category, I should add the other important ones as a note at the top of the text.

I'm wondering because I've come to realize that some of my readers really, really don't like to see anal sex if the story isn't in the anal category. Well guess what; people hate seeing incest in a story not in that category even more.

Would stating the secondary categories be a good solution to the one-category approach of this site?

Thanks for your opinions.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Would stating the secondary categories be a good solution to the one-category approach of this site?

Thanks for your opinions.

Several solutions have been proposed to the less-than-ideal categories here.

They all have one fatal flaw - no one here can make them happen; only the site owners can, and they don't regularly read here. They're also glacial about introducing changes, and any change to categories might upset the readership and disturb the revenue stream.

So while there's nothing wrong with your idea, getting buy-in here is pointless. If authors ran the site it would look quite different (and then probably go out of business.)

 

[Bramblethorn]

Hello,

Ever since joining this site, I've been puzzled by the fact that we can only select one category for stories. I know that tags can somewhat alleviate that problem. Nevertheless, readers don't see them.

What happens when I have a story that contains (for example) incest and anal sex? Which category takes precedence?

General rule is "principle of least squick" (i.e. categorise wherever it's least likely to bother the readers) but as you note, there are some combinations where every option is bad. My understanding is that management intend to move away from the current system towards one that better supports multiple categories, but I don't know how long that is likely to be.

I'm wondering if, after choosing what I consider to be the main category, I should add the other important ones as a note at the top of the text.

That's what I do in similar situations. When I started out, I tended to write overly-defensive content notes but I've shifted towards a more neutral, terse "this is what the story contains". A couple that I've used:

(in Text with Audio) This is my entry for the 2014 Halloween contest. Consider it an Erotic Horror piece, with all that implies.

(in SF/F) Mix of modern-day and fantasy adventure with F/F romance, poetry, and eventually some smut. Hope you enjoy it!

Be warned that some readers actually seek out elements that they hate, just so they can crap on those stories, in which case a content note won't help. That particularly applies to stories with female infidelity or male submission. But in general, I think it's a good idea.

 

[NotWise]

Hello,

Ever since joining this site, I've been puzzled by the fact that we can only select one category for stories. I know that tags can somewhat alleviate that problem. Nevertheless, readers don't see them.

What happens when I have a story that contains (for example) incest and anal sex? Which category takes precedence?

I don't think that secondary categories are going to help you in the case you describe. If you have a story with a polarizing feature like incest, then classifying it in more than once category doesn't do anything but offend more readers.

If your story is missing those polarizing features then it could be placed in more than one category; Sci-Fi and Lesbian for instance, or Group and a lot of things. Incest and anything else? Not so much.

 

[LeandraNyx]

Generally speaking, anything with incest should go in the incest category and if it contains other polarizing content, mention it in an author's note at the top of the page. Don't go overboard and list literally every sex act in your story--that's what the tags are for--but you can mention any broad themes that tend to be deal-breakers for some readers.

 

[sr71plt]

Learn the categories that take precedence (described by others here by the squirk factor--although if it's an audio story, of course that takes precedence with/without a squirk factor) and use the tagging system for secondary categories. And, yes, making change suggestions is pretty much spitting in the wind here--and there are few we haven't seen mentioned ad nauseam without result.

 

[RejectReality]

You might want to give this a read:

https://www.literotica.com/s/love-your-readers-categories

Anal is a squick, but it doesn't outweigh incest. Incest is the correct category for such a story.

Anal sex is one of the things you should probably warn about in an author's note outside the anal category. There are enough people who don't like anal sex to adversely affect your score and comment section if they come across it without being warned.

From what I've seen, announcing this specific complaint in an author's note warning isn't widely used as a signpost for trolls to attack a story unread within the incest category — or really any category other than Loving Wives. Instead, those who don't like anal either skip the story, or skip the scene when it happens.

 

[BrandDickens]

You might want to give this a read:

https://www.literotica.com/s/love-your-readers-categories

Anal is a squick, but it doesn't outweigh incest. Incest is the correct category for such a story.

Anal sex is one of the things you should probably warn about in an author's note outside the anal category. There are enough people who don't like anal sex to adversely affect your score and comment section if they come across it without being warned.

From what I've seen, announcing this specific complaint in an author's note warning isn't widely used as a signpost for trolls to attack a story unread within the incest category — or really any category other than Loving Wives. Instead, those who don't like anal either skip the story, or skip the scene when it happens.

Interesting b-cuz I thought anal had become rather mainstream.

 

[lovecraft68]

Interesting b-cuz I thought anal had become rather mainstream.

There are a surprising amount of anal(pun intended) people on this site. You think porn site/erotic story site, you figure people don't get offended, but...wow.

In fact I'll toss in something else that seems to be a major squick here.

Cheating.

Have a wife screw another man and you better be thick skinned because I've never seen anything like the amount of violent spew that comes from that here. Lot of scorned whiny men I guess... But nothing you will get from incest or non con or anal or anything else can come close to that.

Again, you'd think on a porn site who would care. Instead we have this bizarre readership all full of a variety of 'morals'

 

[lovecraft68]

Interesting b-cuz I thought anal had become rather mainstream.

Write anal and go all in on an ass to mouth scene and know what you get? Ten comments telling you how unhygienic and unrealistic it is.

On a porn site

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Interesting b-cuz I thought anal had become rather mainstream.

One of the odd things about Lit is how many people here think X has gone mainstream when X is not even in most people's working vocabulary.

The site suffers from the mother of all selection biases. For a whole lot of perfectly nice people, sex has barely gone mainstream, and plenty of readers here have never had any.

 

[SimonDoom]

There are a surprising amount of anal(pun intended) people on this site. You think porn site/erotic story site, you figure people don't get offended, but...wow.

In fact I'll toss in something else that seems to be a major squick here.

Cheating.

Have a wife screw another man and you better be thick skinned because I've never seen anything like the amount of violent spew that comes from that here. Lot of scorned whiny men I guess... But nothing you will get from incest or non con or anal or anything else can come close to that.

Again, you'd think on a porn site who would care. Instead we have this bizarre readership all full of a variety of 'morals'

The hostility to cheating stories is fascinating. The reaction is far more virulent than anything else on this site.

What I try to figure out is how the readership gets there, and stays there, in the first place. Why would a person want to read story after story in a category of stories based upon the kink he despises? It's weird. From their comments one can tell that they've forced themselves to get to the end of one's story, despite how much they hate it.

I also wonder, what sort of story DO these readers like? They must like something or they wouldn't be here. Presumably, they're only satisfied if the cheating wife gets her due, but how is that erotic? I don't get it.

A psychologist could get some very interesting material from attitudes of the readers on this site, assuming they could get past the "anonymous" barrier.

 

[lovecraft68]

The hostility to cheating stories is fascinating. The reaction is far more virulent than anything else on this site.

What I try to figure out is how the readership gets there, and stays there, in the first place. Why would a person want to read story after story in a category of stories based upon the kink he despises? It's weird. From their comments one can tell that they've forced themselves to get to the end of one's story, despite how much they hate it.

I also wonder, what sort of story DO these readers like? They must like something or they wouldn't be here. Presumably, they're only satisfied if the cheating wife gets her due, but how is that erotic? I don't get it.

A psychologist could get some very interesting material from attitudes of the readers on this site, assuming they could get past the "anonymous" barrier.

I think that as well because I equate it with myself. What I mean is I loathe rape stories(reluctance not so much, I'm talking flat out non consent) reading a rape story could send me into a rage so....I stay out of that category. Why the hell would I want to set myself off on purpose?

So short of it being a type of masochism or self flagellation I have no idea why these guys who get to the point of threatening violence over stories come here and read this stuff every day. Can't be healthy to be that angry all the time.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Why would a person want to read story after story in a category of stories based upon the kink he despises? It's weird.

Ah, to be this young and naive again. :/

Sometimes when people get damaged, they start engaging in perseverative behaviour that recreates the damage. You see it in young people who are given a reason (however false) to loathe themselves, however falsely, and start cutting themselves - recreating the psychic damage in a physical way. You see it in people with badly failed marriages, who ever after date the wrong people and fail repeatedly in relationships, even if the original failure wasn't their own. You see it in rape victims who can only get off to rough sex and stories about rape, even if they throw up afterwards. It's not common but it does happen.

Let's be clear here. No one with a happy sex life avidly consumes erotica. Most people read a bit, especially when young, to see how the other side lives, and then move on. Readers who keep coming back for more - something's up, they're trying to fill some void, there's something they aren't getting in their relationships. Maybe it's just sex they aren't getting, maybe it's something a whole lot more significant. Whatever it is, they aren't hanging out in the center of the bell curve.

And if that's true about readers, let's not even get into what can be assumed about writers.

Bottom line, some people on this site are from the scary edges of the bell curve and they have stuff going on that I wouldn't begin to claim to understand. Also keep in mind that rape, even if you throw away the ambiguous cases, is much more prevalent than most people think it is. So are broken marriages. There's a lot of people out there who have seen some bad shit and some handle it better than others.

I'm not saying the site readership isn't predominantly happily married women looking for a little side thrill from time to time. Or the underage with genuine and harmless curiosity, though I worry about that a little. But I'm certain the edges of the bell curve flock here and places like it. So you get occasionally interesting/worrisome responses to noncon stories (I have at least) and cheating stories (LW bear witness.)

 

[KatieTay]

Sigh secondary categories might be an idea that could help my Superheroines series!

I mean, I want the focus to *actually* be on the superheroine element, but at the same time I am fascinated by and want to develop the mother-daughter angle. Also, they are muscular, which basically all my main characters are.

But then I have to put those stories in Incest/Taboo where people are looking for "forbidden fruit", and then what I think happens is they see my stories and go "WTF" and think it doesn't belong there.

 

[Darkniciad]

If you're doing superhero stories, you can put them in Sci-Fi&Fantasy, add an author's note about the incest, and you should be fine. The readership of the category tends to use Author's notes as intended. They either skip the story or skip a scene if you list something that squicks them.

I would specify that it's Mother/Daughter as well. That pairing squicks fewer people than most other incest couplings, so more people will read than if you put a general incest warning.

I've rarely seen Laurel change the category when you put a story there that has the proper elements. ( Superheroes certainly qualify )

The readership is small, but engaged. It would be a serious numbers shock if you change from I/T to Sci-Fi, but if your primary interest is the superhero element being the focus, that's the way to go. That's where the readers for that type of story are.

 

[KatieTay]

If you're doing superhero stories, you can put them in Sci-Fi&Fantasy, add an author's note about the incest, and you should be fine. The readership of the category tends to use Author's notes as intended. They either skip the story or skip a scene if you list something that squicks them.

I would specify that it's Mother/Daughter as well. That pairing squicks fewer people than most other incest couplings, so more people will read than if you put a general incest warning.

I've rarely seen Laurel change the category when you put a story there that has the proper elements. ( Superheroes certainly qualify )

The readership is small, but engaged. It would be a serious numbers shock if you change from I/T to Sci-Fi, but if your primary interest is the superhero element being the focus, that's the way to go. That's where the readers for that type of story are.

... wow thanks I think I will try that!

See, I've tried putting them in Fetish (because superheroine = fetish, to me), but Laurel ends up putting them in Incest/Taboo anyway, so the last few chapters I've just given up. As long as I've included an explicit lovemaking scene, I've put it in Incest/Taboo just to save Laurel the trouble.

But I think I will try it out, as you say!

 

[hylas_]

I too think the current cathegories and tag system is not very helpful. But since it's not going to change anytime soon, I think disclaimers at the start are the way to go. It's not very elegant, but I think it's the best solution.


For what it's worth, I would like to have
1) cathegories that work more like tags. One should be able to choose several.

2) I also think the tags should be displayed at the beginning of the story, not the end.

3) And while I appreciate the option to make your own tags, there should be some kind of system to eliminate redundancies. At the moment, one story may be tagged "domme", another "dominatrix", and a third "femdom". It would be great if that could be avoided.

 

[chocolategirl74]

I'm getting ready to start a story that has bisexual men and women in it.

There's no category to place this story.

I could put it in Erotic Couplings, but I'll probably get complaints and downvotes because there's gay sex in it.

I could put it in Group sex, but that's not exactly the place it should go, and again, gay sex.

I could put it in Romance because it really is a romance, but I'd get complaints about gay sex.

So, I'll probably end up putting it in Gay Male, which sucks IMHO. Just because a story has gay sex doesn't mean it's proper for that category. There's straight sex in my story as well as sex between women. It doesn't seem fair.

I wish that we could do multiple categories, and I REALLY wish there was a bisexual category. That would solve all of my issues.

cg74

 

[sr71plt]

I'm getting ready to start a story that has bisexual men and women in it.

There's no category to place this story.

I could put it in Erotic Couplings, but I'll probably get complaints and downvotes because there's gay sex in it.

I could put it in Group sex, but that's not exactly the place it should go, and again, gay sex.

I could put it in Romance because it really is a romance, but I'd get complaints about gay sex.

So, I'll probably end up putting it in Gay Male, which sucks IMHO. Just because a story has gay sex doesn't mean it's proper for that category. There's straight sex in my story as well as sex between women. It doesn't seem fair.

I wish that we could do multiple categories, and I REALLY wish there was a bisexual category. That would solve all of my issues.

cg74

If it includes MM activity, I've found that putting it in Gay Male is the best you can do on Literotica. The readers there haven't slammed any of my bisexual stories for not being pure GM.

 

[SimonDoom]

Ah, to be this young and naive again. :/

)

Be careful what you wish for. I wish I was as young as I am naive.

 

[MrIllusion]

Well, looks like this is an old and complex issue. I think I'm going to add a note to warn readers, seems like the easiest solution!

Thanks

 

[Darkniciad]

If it includes MM activity, I've found that putting it in Gay Male is the best you can do on Literotica. The readers there haven't slammed any of my bisexual stories for not being pure GM.

Even if it includes M/F scenes as well?

If so, that's a dramatic difference from Lesbian Sex, where even the slightest hint of opposite sex interaction seems to cause a vitriolic reaction from the readership.

I've always suspected that was the case from the lack of "This is GM, keep your vaginas out!" type comments appearing, but never delved deep enough into the category to make a determination of whether that was from reader acceptance or lack of submissions that might cause the reaction.

 

[sr71plt]

Even if it includes M/F scenes as well?

If so, that's a dramatic difference from Lesbian Sex, where even the slightest hint of opposite sex interaction seems to cause a vitriolic reaction from the readership.

I've always suspected that was the case from the lack of "This is GM, keep your vaginas out!" type comments appearing, but never delved deep enough into the category to make a determination of whether that was from reader acceptance or lack of submissions that might cause the reaction.

Yes. It's not ideal, but the Web site won't provide a bisexual category (which would be muddled as much as the current GBLT forum is, because there's a big difference in MMF, FMF, MFM, and MFF sexuality), so it's the best fit I've found. GM readers seem to mostly look for that element in a story and not be set off if they find other elements as well.

I simply don't get the backlash on anything I put in GM that folks here report in other categories.

 

[Darkniciad]

Good to know for certain. The next time the question arises, I can be a little more definitive with a category suggestion.