Spirituality, Religion, and Metaphysics

[bashfull]

Had a very interesting discussion the other day with a friend discussing the differences between being religious, being spiritual, and metaphysics. Are they the same? Please feel free to share your opinion.

Bash

 

[PinkOrchid]

 

[rainyguy]

this is one of those really interesting and fun topics to discuss but it really does depend on who is around you. most of my friends won't get into a full out discussion on this topic. I don't know, for me, i absolutely love it when you find a person that can have a good hard discussion with you and even though you might disagree, nobody is going away crying.


so, are they the same? well i don't believe so but like so many things it really depends on your perspective. the hard thing is that this is one of those types of discussions that work best sitting around a table.

 

[Native Alien]

Hello bashful, good to see you.

With me, my culture and my spirituality are intertwined. Some people say that I am not religious because I don't have the structure that most religions do. But that is what I like. I don't do well with the structure.

So I would guess that I agree with alot of what rainyguy has to say as well as Pink in this case.

 

[mbb308]

I would not choose to denigrate religion, as it has brought comfort to untold millions of people over the millenia. I just find a rigid aspect to the belief system that doesn't work for me.

I find that religion is for people who don't want to go to Hell, and that spirituality is for people who have been to Hell and don't want to go back.

The beauty of spirituality is the variety of paths one can take to pursue growth. But spiritual growth is a bit like climbing a mountain, too. When one starts out, there are many trails at the bottom. As one progresses, there is less mountain, and divergent trails begin to overlap. Closer to the summit, more trails merge, but we never reach the summit, as growth is the destination.

Organized religions I have examined have many spiritual components, but those seem to be lost in the rituals and dogmatitic proclamations. That is a pity, for it is about the principles and not the personalities.

 

[bashfull]

Hot diggity dog...

I wasn't sure anyone would read, much less reply to this thread.

Pink~I agree. While we think we can (at least in Western civilization) separate religion, it is our religious beliefs, or lack thereof, that will influence how we interpret our environment.

rainguy~how right you are. This would be a fun topic around a table with beer or on the back deck. Been a long time since I've had the pleasure of such an event. ~deep sigh~

NA~<<<huggs>>>~good to see you too, darlin'. If we cast aside the collars of structure, can we still be religious? Is it the collar that gives the boundaries and informs us that we are spiritual?

mbb~I like your definitions. reminds of a saying that there are no atheist in a foxhole. A problem I have with many organized religions is that many of them claim to be the one and only with everyone else condemed. Even within each religion (e.g. Chrisianity). If one of them is correct, and which one is?, then there Hell is gonna' be mighty full.

Bash

 

[mbb308]

Re: Hot diggity dog...

I wasn't sure anyone would read, much less reply to this thread.

mbb~I like your definitions. reminds of a saying that there are no atheist in a foxhole. A problem I have with many organized religions is that many of them claim to be the one and only with everyone else condemed. Even within each religion (e.g. Chrisianity). If one of them is correct, and which one is?, then there Hell is gonna' be mighty full.

Bash

Starting with my rejection of the basic assumptions of the dogmatic position of the Church of England, I looked what I thought was God square in the eye and tossed Him out of my Life. I proceeded to run the show for the next 20 years, and the good days produced mixed results. The bad ones were true losers.

When I was faced with outward disaster, I realized that the main cause was the inward chaos I found. I looked at the proposition that a spiritual solution was the best answer.

I came up with my own concept of God. I simply call It God so the others will know what I am talking about. I researched some basic principles for living, applied them to myself, set out to improve my consciousness of this God entity, and took off down the path.

There have been some bumps in the road, but the progress using this method has been better than anything I have ever used before, whether it was the church-God of my youth or the god I tried to make myself in early adulthood. This God-centered path has worked in spite of what I thought and in spite of my best thinking.

 

[Native Alien]

To answer you.

NA~<<<huggs>>>~good to see you too, darlin'. If we cast aside the collars of structure, can we still be religious? Is it the collar that gives the boundaries and informs us that we are spiritual?

I think that some of the problem lies in the way that the words spiritual and religious are used. Can we be religious but not spiritual or the other way around? I think that we can. I am not defined by the boundaries as I see so many are. The boundaries that others use to define if they are religious can become a prison of their spirituality.

 

[ImmortaleAmante]

such an interesting thread and i agree with a little of each, I associate religion with institutionalised stuctered religion, whach works for so many but not me. Too many unanswered questions and focus on man made rituals.

I call myself spirtual, i have a belief but it is not structured it flows like life and nature and gives me comfort but doesn't demand of me. For me the main diff btwn Religion and Spirtuality is man, spirtuality allows a belief in the other, another world, place and focus more on natyre and harmony. In religion i feel closed in and ademand made on me to worship and accept or my soul, spirt is indanger. I only follow those i respect and i can not respect the god portrayed in western based religion

 

[bashfull]

Does the definition of spirituality require admission to a superior being? And if so, then is that not worship? Not religion?

 

[Native Alien]

I fully admit to a higher power, but what is between me and my higher power is just that. My Creator doesn't care when or how that I ask for help, just that I do.

Is that religion? I am not sure. All I know is that it is between me and my Creator. There are no limits where I can go with that kind of help and support. Not to mention a little help from my friends.

Do I worship my Creator? Maybe I do, but I tend to think it is more a celebration of my Creator. Knowing that someone is looking out for me. That I am not alone.

I am not doing real well at this am I? lol.

 

[bashfull]

I fully admit to a higher power, but what is between me and my higher power is just that. My Creator doesn't care when or how that I ask for help, just that I do.

Is that religion? I am not sure. All I know is that it is between me and my Creator. There are no limits where I can go with that kind of help and support. Not to mention a little help from my friends.

Do I worship my Creator? Maybe I do, but I tend to think it is more a celebration of my Creator. Knowing that someone is looking out for me. That I am not alone.

I am not doing real well at this am I? lol.

Is not worship able to be celebration? How often do modern services preach the fire and brimestone of old? Rather, they are more inclined to preach the benevolence and love of him. So, worship or spirituality?

 

[Native Alien]

In all honesty, I can't answer your questions. I don't have a church, preacher, or anyway of knowing what they do. For me it is a solitary thing. The way that I grew up practicing and will continue to do until my days are done.

What I do know is that I didn't grow up with a concept of hell so I am really not the one to ask about this.

 

[PinkOrchid]

 

[bashfull]

What is this, a freakin' comparitive religion or philosophy exam?

Let me eat some dinner and I'll come back to this.

--Harry
lmao

What? You got a problem wit' dat'?

~~Harriet

LOL

 

[Georgia Girl]

Spirituality for me.

I acknowledge the existence of a higher power but I don't believe I have to sit on a pew to be able to have him hear me. I don't believe sitting in church listening to someone else assures me a place in heaven. I believe hell is the absence of heaven, a void of nothing.

My thoughts on the workings of the soul, the power and structure, the function the soul plays in our lives border on the metaphysical as well.

It works for me.

 

[PinkOrchid]

 

[bashfull]

I wrote three different replies to this, and then decided we are splitting semantic hairs here.

Spirituality does not require a concept of a superior being, but it does imply something greater than one's self, whether that is a supreme being, or a "force," or nothingness or whatever depends on the path one takes.

Worship is an expression of spirituality and/or religion. It is not, however, the only expression.

--Harry

"...superior being...something greater than one's self..." is that not one and the same? As for spirituality, I would offer that the definition of spirituality is

"Something, such as property or revenue, that belongs to the church or to a cleric. Often used in the plural. " from Dictionary.com.

Hence, being spiritual is to belong to a religion.

 

[Mysticcal]

wow, jumping into this mid stream, and so many thoughts, ideas running through my head and heart, but have to respond to your last comment bash.

If you want to debate semantics here, and come at this from your head, (rather than you heart, which is how I prefer to live, but I will go here with you for a bit lol), then I have to say that the definition from the dictionary is ok, cause it really says nothing without a further definition of church and cleric.

As for me, my spirituality has its grounding in metaphysics, but is not limited by any definitions or rules set down by anyone else. Freedom is my divine right and I embrace that. I don't see this as a religion, rather a way of life....but I don't feel the need for a definition of it, and if anyone else chooses to put one on it for their convenience or need, then I say go for it, but don't expect me to attach to it or feel a need to defend it.

 

[bashfull]

Have you ever sought the guidance of a teacher or counselor for advice on spirituality or metaphysics? Have you requested or accepted their guidance in becomming or defining more of your own spirituality? If so, then you have allowed your interpretation of your environment and "spirituality" to be defined by another's intrepretation. And how does this differ from "religion"?

 

[Mysticcal]

Have you ever sought the guidance of a teacher or counselor for advice on spirituality or metaphysics? Have you requested or accepted their guidance in becomming or defining more of your own spirituality? If so, then you have allowed your interpretation of your environment and "spirituality" to be defined by another's intrepretation. And how does this differ from "religion"?

LOL! that's cheating, you know me too well

And yes, I have sought guidance and assistance. I have heard her opinions and beliefs and formed mine as I took hers in. It has helped me to understand my spirituality as it relates to me and those around me, but I don't find that there are any hard and fast rules laid down. Any definitions of this is what something means.

In my search for spirituality, when I have asked a question and sought guidance, the response I usually got was, what does it mean to you? How does it feel within yourself? Go within and the answers for you are there. This never felt like a religion to me....as it is what I believe it is, what feels right for me, how I perceive my reality.

Being raised Catholic, which I think we can agree is a religion, I was never encouraged to look within, to seek my own answers, to find the path that works for me. Seems a simple yet profound difference to me in my humble opinion.

 

[bashfull]

When I studied Buddism, which I believe we can all agree is religion, I was guided the same way. Indeed, to paraphrase Sidartha (again, my spelling is atrocious), Budda, we cannot prove a higher being, so why waste time arguing over the existence. Rather, strive to be the best person one can be while on Earth. And there are many paths to enlightenment.

I offer that one person's religion/spirituality, is another's mythology.

Bash

 

[Mysticcal]

Now you have me wanting to dig into the dictionary myself and look up meaning of mythology. But I will agree with that statement anyway

One's religion or spirituality is just that, ones. What other word or opinion another has of it, is theirs alone. If they want to call it mythology, that works for me. I believe we create our own reality, and how we perceive anothers reality may be a story, a myth, a convenient definition for us to feel comfortable within ourselves. It's all good.

 

[bashfull]

Hence, back to "is there a difference between the three"?

BTW~think of Zeus, Appollo, etc of ancient Greece. All were "worshiped" as gods. Now it is mythology, merely because lacking in mass worship?

 

[Noor]

Hence, back to "is there a difference between the three"?

BTW~think of Zeus, Appollo, etc of ancient Greece. All were "worshiped" as gods. Now it is mythology, merely because lacking in mass worship?

Mythology, like terrorists and freedom fighters, depends on your belief system. If you believe it, it is religion, otherwise it is a mythology. Mass worship has nothing to do with it. Judism is a religion even though only 5 % of the us population is Jewsih and less then .10 % of the world is.