Spelling and grammar more important than story?

[EvelynEden]

Warning: Rant ahead- I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but if it's not I'll just delete it-

So, hate comments- we all get them, it's nothing new- and usually they are just received with an eye roll if they're particularly nonsensical...
I just received one over an hour ago that succeeded in arousing something more than just annoyance.

'Spelling brings you to a grinding halt and destroys the flow.
by Jackspeed2u  on 1 hour ago

Moisture. That’s how you spell it. A simple spell checker would have caught that but nope, you had to think you were better than Microsoft Office Word spell checker. After all what would a dictionary know?

1 Star since it’s written so flowery but without the spelling to match.'

I'm probably overreacting, I've mentioned before that I am in dire need of thick skin... still, I couldn't help but get riled up over it.
Firstly because I actually did run my story through MS Word spell check- and also for good measure, Grammarly. Unfortunately, just like me, those programs aren't perfect.
Secondly, I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder for such comments- I had a terrible time in school because of my spelling, no matter how hard I tried, it was a problem I just couldn't shake. One fond memory I have is when my teacher berated me in front of the entire class, finishing off his tirade by asking if I had a learning disability. Good memories indeed.
I think the thing that pushed me over the edge was reading his bio (yes, I peeked)

'Tall, slender and I like reading stories. A stickler for grammar but can survive some spelling mistakes.

It’s “My mom and I” not “Me and mom”. Simple grade 1 grammar that shows poor authors for who they are. When the above error is made so that a middle aged person say it, or even a 25 yo, I know the author is terrible and doesn’t know how non ghetto people and those educated and over 25 speak. So the author is probably 15 yo, male and a virgin so the sex scenes will be terrible as well as body descriptions. So get your shit correct.

I score either 1 or 5 stars. Well written with a story line that fits the story type, minimal grammar and no spelling errors even if I don’t like the story get a 5. Child like story lines with spelling errors and grammatical mistakes gets, no matter how good the story gets 1 star.'

It irritates me that he has this belief that he can justly judge a story purely on grammar and spelling- that to him, that holds more value than a story's... story.
I know I shouldn't let it ruffle me, but knowing this guy is running around Literotica 1 bombing every story that doesn't meet his grammatical requirements really frustrates me.
What are your thoughts on all this, is spelling and grammar really more important than story? Has anyone faced something similar during their time here? I'd love to hear some opinions- even if they do differ to mine.

 

[TxRad]

Opinionated idiots are the worse kind. They probably can't write a story themselves so they have to nitpick people who can or at least try. We've always had grammar and spelling Nazis here and always will, I'm afraid. The best thing is to ignore them or to delete their comments.

If you pay for a story or a book, you might expect perfection but even then you won't get it. Something will always slip through. I write mainstream books and they have a long system of checks and I still find problems when I get my copies.

I write like people speak and that ain't anywhere near perfect. If it was, the people would sound wooden and stilted.

In the simplest terms, Fu*k them.

 

[EvelynEden]

Opinionated idiots are the worse kind. They probably can't write a story themselves so they have to nitpick people who can or at least try. We've always had grammar and spelling Nazis here and always will, I'm afraid. The best thing is to ignore them or to delete their comments.

If you pay for a story or a book, you might expect perfection but even then you won't get it. Something will always slip through. I write mainstream books and they have a long system of checks and I still find problems when I get my copies.

I write like people speak and that ain't anywhere near perfect. If it was, the people would sound wooden and stilted.

In the simplest terms, Fu*k them.

So true! You make some really great points actually, I didn't even think about that side of it. Thanks for commenting, I feel loads better

 

[Handley_Page]

Up to a point, I'd agree; nasty comments and the grammar Nazi can be objectionable.
But there really is no excuse for serious spelling errors. Most Word procs feature a spell-checker so why not use it ?
Understanding the your/ you're problem is simple, so why not do it?

It really can spoil a good read. I've seen a good story ruined by a complete lack of punctuation ! (ie, quotation marks and even commas, but I have to wonder if it was a work by someone who does not have English as first language.

Perhaps a Beta reader might help ?

 

[EvelynEden]

Up to a point, I'd agree; nasty comments and the grammar Nazi can be objectionable.
But there really is no excuse for serious spelling errors. Most Word procs feature a spell-checker so why not use it ?
Understanding the your/ you're problem is simple, so why not do it?

It really can spoil a good read. I've seen a good story ruined by a complete lack of punctuation ! (ie, quotation marks and even commas, but I have to wonder if it was a work by someone who does not have English as first language.

Perhaps a Beta reader might help ?

I completely understand your point, but as I mentioned I did use two spell checkers- MS word and Grammarly. My aggravation was not at being pulled up for my spelling mistakes (if you look at the comments on my older works from when I was young and I had relied solely on MS spell check to get me through- I was constantly pulled up on my spelling and rightly so- it was a mess)my aggravation was for being shamed for supposedly not bothering with a spellchecker as if that would magically erase all mistakes. I was also frustrated with the fact that this guy willingly admits that no matter how good a story is, he will 1 bomb it if it doesn't adhere to his standards of grammar and spelling. And it won't just be me he would have been doing this to either. But of course, I do respect your opinion, and I do believe that spelling and grammar are important in a piece of writing. Thanks for your comment

 

[ElectricBlue]

This came as no surprise:

https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=1482935&page=submissions

Just ignore twats like this and delete their comments. Anybody who flames a writer who puts themselves out there, with zero content of their own - that tells me more about them than it does about you.

 

[EvelynEden]

This came as no surprise:

https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=1482935&page=submissions

Just ignore twats like this and delete their comments. Anybody who flames a writer who puts themselves out there, with zero content of their own - thatt tells me more about them than it does about you.

So very true! I don't understand the weird little power trip about it all, it's just so puzzling. I'll be the first to admit my spelling is terrible, but I have worked on it throughout the years and I try to take certain steps to ensure it's actually readable. Oh well, I really gotta stop being such a softy. Thanks EB

 

[Jada59]

I didn't read your story but if I'm reading something and see too many errors in the firt few paragraphs, I simply can't continue.

That being said, if a character in your story says, "Me and ___ went...", I would not necessarily see that as a mistake. Why? That character might speak that way all the time. One of my friends is guilty of that. She also says, "I seen that!", "supposingly" and other things that set my teeth on edge.

 

[oggbashan]

I sometimes get flamed for spelling errors that aren't errors at all - in British English. But some Americans want only American spelling.

 

[Bramblethorn]

When the above error is made so that a middle aged person say it, or even a 25 yo, I know the author is terrible and doesn’t know how non ghetto people and those educated and over 25 speak. So the author is probably 15 yo, male and a virgin so the sex scenes will be terrible as well as body descriptions. So get your shit correct.

I score either 1 or 5 stars. Well written with a story line that fits the story type, minimal grammar and no spelling errors even if I don’t like the story get a 5. Child like story lines with spelling errors and grammatical mistakes gets, no matter how good the story gets 1 star.

Dude probably ought to get his own grammar in order before flaming others.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Dude probably ought to get his own grammar in order before flaming others.

I missed that little gem. Hoist on his own petard, as only a fool can be .

 

[GuessImJamie]

All the officer patients in the ward were forced to censor letters written by all the enlisted-men patients, who were kept in residence in wards of their own. It was a monotonous job, and Yossarian was disappointed to learn that the lives of enlisted men were only slightly more interesting than the lives of officers. After the first day he had no curiosity at all. To break the monotony he invented games. Death to all modifiers, he declared one day, and out of every letter that passed through his hands went every adverb and every adjective. The next day he made war on articles. He reached a much higher plane of creativity the following day when he blacked out everything in the letters but a, an and the. That erected more dynamic intralinear tensions, he felt, and in just about every case left a message far more universal. Soon he was proscribing parts of salutations and signatures and leaving the text untouched. One time he blacked out all but salutation "Dear Mary" from a letter, and at the bottom he wrote, "I yearn for you tragically, A.T. Tappman, Chaplain, U.S. Army." A.T. Tappman was the group chaplain's name.

When he had exhausted all possibilities in the letters, he began attacking the names and addresses on the envelopes, obliterating whole homes and streets, annihilating entire metropolises with careless flicks of his wrist as though he were God.

Joseph Heller -Catch 22

 

[SimonDoom]

Bad spelling and grammar detract from my ability to enjoy a story, but they are not more important than the story. That commenter is just being a jerk.

 

[MelissaBaby]

1 Star since it’s written so flowery but without the spelling to match.'

Incomplete sentence. Improper use of numeral.

Tall, slender and I like reading stories.

Incomplete sentence.

A stickler for grammar but can survive some spelling mistakes.

Incomplete sentence. Punctuation error.

Simple grade 1 grammar that shows poor authors for who they are.

Incomplete sentence. Improper use of numeral.

When the above error is made so that a middle aged person say it, or even a 25 yo, I know the author is terrible and doesn’t know how non ghetto people and those educated and over 25 speak.

Grammar and punctuation errors.


So the author is probably 15 yo, male and a virgin so the sex scenes will be terrible as well as body descriptions.

Garbled syntax. Punctuation errors.

So get your shit correct.

Grammar error.

I score either 1 or 5 stars.

Improper use of numerals.

Well written with a story line that fits the story type, minimal grammar and no spelling errors even if I don’t like the story get a 5.

Grammar and punctuation errors.

Child like story lines with spelling errors and grammatical mistakes gets, no matter how good the story gets 1 star.'

Grammar and punctuation errors.

 

[BelleCanzuto]

Re the comment: I find it ironic and telling that the self proclaimed grammar nazi has an error in his bio. Simple grade 1 grammar that shows poor authors for who they are. When the above error is made so that a middle aged person say it,

Unless that's some esoteric Aussie subject/verb agreement loophole of which we Yanks are unaware?

ETA - This has been another episode of "Belle should really read the whole thread before responding". Brought to you by our sponsors - Hypocaffineation and Hyposomnia (or at least that's the story I'm sticking to).



Re the OP: Sure, lots of grammar and spelling mistakes will make me stop reading a story. If it's bad enough that I'm essentially having to translate it into more standard English, then I'll stop. If it's bad enough that I just can't understand what the author is attempting to convey I'll understand. And I'll admit a significant variation in my tolerance depending on what kind of mood I'm in.

I do think that there's a correlation between how well someone can convey a story and how good the grammar and spelling is. I think of it as an attention to detail that serves a lot of purposes in the art of writing.

Oh, also -- I'd never 1bomb a story because of bad spelling. If it's that bad, I just quit reading.

But that being said. a couple of spelling errors here or there, the occasion misuse of a homophone, etc, isn't going to diminish my interest if the rest of the storytelling is good.

 

[R. Richard]

What if a story has grammar or spelling errors, because that's what the character would say?

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

I think the thing that pushed me over the edge was reading his bio (yes, I peeked)

His bio reads like life has already given him his comeuppance I wouldn’t stress about this guy.

What are your thoughts on all this, is spelling and grammar really more important than story? Has anyone faced something similar during their time here? I'd love to hear some opinions- even if they do differ to mine.

IMHO, grammar and spelling are extraordinarily important, and at the same time, not important at all. They serve the story, and a writer should understand them well enough to consistently get her ideas across. But they’re not everything; a very good writer should understand the rules well enough to bend and break them. I read your story “Mercy”; imho, you have no problems with telling a lyrical story.

Anecdotally: someone (another site author) once emailed me, “Your writing is excellent; I’ve never come a mistake except that in ch. 11 you wrote ‘me and Brian’ instead of ‘Brian and me’. I’ll continue searching for mistakes.”

Firstly, my writing has a lot of grammar mistakes—many grammar rules are stupid and stilted, and I knowingly break them. But secondly, what that author pointed out wasn’t even a mistake: “You before me” is not a rule, it’s a convention. I didn’t bother with a reply; I think that, as with most things that are strongly felt, you can’t force someone to change their strongly held opinions about grammar. But I personally wonder: why constrict oneself, in any area of life, with ideas that are unimportant, unfounded or even untrue?

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Re the OP: Sure, lots of grammar and spelling mistakes will make me stop reading a story. If it's bad enough that I'm essentially having to translate it into more standard English, then I'll stop. If it's bad enough that I just can't understand what the author is attempting to convey I'll understand. And I'll admit a significant variation in my tolerance depending on what kind of mood I'm in.

I do think that there's a correlation between how well someone can convey a story and how good the grammar and spelling is. I think of it as an attention to detail that serves a lot of purposes in the art of writing.

But that being said, a couple of spelling errors here or there, the occasion misuse of a homophone, etc, isn't going to diminish my interest if the rest of the storytelling is good.

This.

Looking at it another way, what’s most important in fine dining? Is it top-quality produce and ingredients or is it a skilled chef? Actually, it’s both of them. Even the best ingredients can be ruined by inept preparation.

Similarly, the plot is critical, but consistently bad grammar or spelling are distracting and can ruin the best plot.

 

[lovecraft68]

Falls under a mantra I've always tried to adhere to, and the last couple of years am really trying to enforce on myself

Everything in moderation

In this case I prefer a good creative story that may have some grammar issues over a technically proficient but boring AF story.

But where moderation comes in is I can deal with some typos or a misplaced comma (or missing), but if its that bad, as in multiple typos in every paragraph and grammar so bad I have to re-read sentences to figure out what they meant, then that smacks of lazy not lack of skill.

No story is perfect, and if I get a comment along the lines of "you could use another pair of eyes" I don't get offended, they're right. But I ignore the 'I'm an English major" comments where they start talking about sentence structure or use of this misuse of that....keep the anal in the anal category is my thought for them

 

[TarnishedPenny]

...keep the anal in the anal category is my thought for them

 

[pollyannaowt]

Hey--

"keep the anal in the anal category is my thought for them"

Some of us only play with "nice" assholes...

 

[sbrooks103]

Warning: Rant ahead- I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but if it's not I'll just delete it-

So, hate comments- we all get them, it's nothing new- and usually they are just received with an eye roll if they're particularly nonsensical...
I just received one over an hour ago that succeeded in arousing something more than just annoyance.

'Spelling brings you to a grinding halt and destroys the flow.
by Jackspeed2u  on 1 hour ago

Moisture. That’s how you spell it. A simple spell checker would have caught that but nope, you had to think you were better than Microsoft Office Word spell checker. After all what would a dictionary know?

1 Star since it’s written so flowery but without the spelling to match.'

I'm probably overreacting, I've mentioned before that I am in dire need of thick skin... still, I couldn't help but get riled up over it.
Firstly because I actually did run my story through MS Word spell check- and also for good measure, Grammarly. Unfortunately, just like me, those programs aren't perfect.
Secondly, I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder for such comments- I had a terrible time in school because of my spelling, no matter how hard I tried, it was a problem I just couldn't shake. One fond memory I have is when my teacher berated me in front of the entire class, finishing off his tirade by asking if I had a learning disability. Good memories indeed.
I think the thing that pushed me over the edge was reading his bio (yes, I peeked)

'Tall, slender and I like reading stories. A stickler for grammar but can survive some spelling mistakes.

It’s “My mom and I” not “Me and mom”. Simple grade 1 grammar that shows poor authors for who they are. When the above error is made so that a middle aged person say it, or even a 25 yo, I know the author is terrible and doesn’t know how non ghetto people and those educated and over 25 speak. So the author is probably 15 yo, male and a virgin so the sex scenes will be terrible as well as body descriptions. So get your shit correct.

I score either 1 or 5 stars. Well written with a story line that fits the story type, minimal grammar and no spelling errors even if I don’t like the story get a 5. Child like story lines with spelling errors and grammatical mistakes gets, no matter how good the story gets 1 star.'

It irritates me that he has this belief that he can justly judge a story purely on grammar and spelling- that to him, that holds more value than a story's... story.
I know I shouldn't let it ruffle me, but knowing this guy is running around Literotica 1 bombing every story that doesn't meet his grammatical requirements really frustrates me.
What are your thoughts on all this, is spelling and grammar really more important than story? Has anyone faced something similar during their time here? I'd love to hear some opinions- even if they do differ to mine.

I hate to be wishy-washy, but it depends. I'm a notorious nit-picker, yet I see comments pointing out mistakes that I slid right over, because I was so into the story. So, yes, if the story is good enough, errors SHOULDN'T detract, though there will be others, like the people you mentioned, that live to find errors.

Then there are writers who apparently didn't even bother with elementary self-edits, and you have to stop and re-read to make sense of what was said, or even who was speaking.

 

[sbrooks103]

Opinionated idiots are the worse kind. They probably can't write a story themselves so they have to nitpick people who can or at least try. We've always had grammar and spelling Nazis here and always will, I'm afraid. The best thing is to ignore them or to delete their comments.

If you pay for a story or a book, you might expect perfection but even then you won't get it. Something will always slip through. I write mainstream books and they have a long system of checks and I still find problems when I get my copies.

I write like people speak and that ain't anywhere near perfect. If it was, the people would sound wooden and stilted.

In the simplest terms, Fu*k them.

Good point about how people speak. Many people say, "could of" instead of "could've," so using it in dialog is perfectly correct. In narrative, it's questionable, at best.

 

[sbrooks103]

What if a story has grammar or spelling errors, because that's what the character would say?

Rules for dialog are MUCH different than for narration, for just that reason.

 

[KeithD]

Computer spellcheck doesn't do the trick on spelling. You need to use a dictionary too--and know how to use it--to minimize the errors that inevitably will be there no matter what you (or a publisher) do. Also, as already noted, there's a difference in what you need to do with narrative and character dialogue (keeping in mind that the narrator is a character two, who might have grammar quirks), and casual readers don't always know/appreciate the difference. The same is true with grammar, and the practice for commercial fiction isn't the same as you were taught to do for high school essays. That said, perceived errors do tend to kick the reader out of the flow of the read, so they should be avoided as possible.

In this specific instance, the commenter has self-identified as anal retentive, insensitive to story delivery as a whole, and an unnecessarily harsh rater, which doesn't really deserve more than a comment delete and a note to self to check on whether greater technical scrutiny would be helpful to the read and possible to attain within author constraints/interest.