lovecraft68
Bad Doggie
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2009
- Posts
- 45,692
Sorry but this is too good to pass up. here is exactly what I am talking about. Depending on where this and similar cases go and how much attention is received, things like this will be what will lead to the powers that be re-evaluating their stance on certain stories.
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=758546
I really swear I was going to jump off this kick but blame another lit member who pm'd me the above thread because I don't surf the BDSM forums
Unlike some of my previous rants however I am in a much better frame of mind these days and will attempt a rational explanation of my views.
for those that deem me a hypocrite because I write some BDSM material understand BDSM is consensual no matter how ugly it can get. BDSM is based- long story short-one loves to give one loves to receive. In fact in some cases the master holds back punishment because the sub craves the discipline it is consensual. I have lived the lifestyle both as Master and Sub and know of what I speak if you have not shut up until you have.
I also write incest. Literotica style 18+ incest with consensual sex. Incest is a crime although in the case of 18+ more of a moral one than a real one. In the case of an adult brother/sister living together it is difficult to prosecute because what exactly are you prosecuting?
As for the "crime" of real life incest which happens underage in reality? Well it is usually a Father/older brother/ Uncle molesting a younger girl-or boy- for that matter. Now when prosecuted the charge is not "incest" it is sexual assault, molestation or... Rape. Non consensual sex. So try again and stop pointing your fingers at me and my "material" no one there is getting anything they don't "want" and you would know that if you read it before harping on my "hypocrisy"
I have never claimed to have issues with rough sex stories. Want to be hung upside down and whipped bloody? Cool go for it want someone to piss in your mouth? be my guest. Bottom line anything between CONSENTING adults is free reign and fun for all involved. Only thing I have ever disagreed with is flat out rape stories. as in NON CONSENT.
Authors defend the category not because they like it but to defend the right to write it. That is fine but having sat back and thought calmly on it let me explain why the site itself is more than aware of what they have and the possible volatile nature of it when things like the above article surface.
the word Rape is not allowed in Titles and Tags. I wondered why that was seeing the stories contain it. Then I figured it out.
when you google or use any other search engine it works by key word. You get the most relevant results first then as you go the results become more and more vague. If someone is searching rape stories they will get the results with the word in the title or sub title first then go from there. By not allowing the word in those fields Lit is ensuring that any stories like that here are way down the list. The average guy searching for out right rape porn does not have the attention span to keep looking past the first couple pages. This is also a way of burying them further into the list in case law enforcement decides to search it as well. Clever really very clever. Especially the wording of the category itself. People looking for these stories don't use the term "non consent" they use rape. Great word play.
Lit also has, in addition to the hard rule on underage, a couple of "soft rules" one of which is no real "harm" occurring during sex. This is aimed at BDSM as well as Non consent .
harm by definition-Physical injury, especially that which is deliberately inflicted
So okay lets throw out any non consent stories like Seth P's "Janey likes it rough" because well if Janey likes it rough it is not non consent now is it?
Let's also toss all the stories that have the "rape" turn out to be a kinky sex game between couples or the woman ends up liking it. I am only addressing the percentage of flat out rape/ non consent stories.
Now my wife, who is a volunteer counselor at a woman's shelter, can professionally attest to the fact that if you have indeed been raped you have been "harmed" you have been forced into an act that will hurt you physically and scar you emotionally for life.
The other popular story line in non consent the "slavery" stories where women are kidnapped and given drugs and turned into prostitutes. I am not a lawyer or judge but I would think it would be safe to say if you were given a narcotic against your will and forced to take it until you were addicted and sold into prostitution you have in fact been "harmed"
So Literotica has it's rules to protect them just as they do for underage and snuff and any other "banned" activities. Thing is they are not being enforced. It would not be difficult. simply no more "actual" rape stories at some point it has to be consensual, a game, or the timeless literary device of a "dream sequence" anything that has the reader enjoy the thrill but in the end... well it would be "no animals were harmed during the filming of...
And absolutely no kidnapping/ forced drug story lines. Want to write about your character shooting up? Go for it but they can't shoot anyone else up.
better yet divide the category. There is always talk of "sub-categories" make "rough sex" and non consent separate. Hell they have reluctance in with non con and the two are totally different.
Bottom line love it or hate it (and me for that matter) this is a dicey category and the people in charge are aware of it and the thread linked here is exactly why they should be. Lit is adamant on underage because of the hell that could be brought down on them. Eventually it will spread to this whether it should or not. I have a friend who is a SVU detective. There are different styles of rape "crime of passion" most common and many times the victim knows the attacker. However in the case of serial rapists the police and FBI build data bases that help with profiling. Just like child molesters these criminals PC's are full of hardcore rape video's (staged or not) and rape fiction. Lit's "non rape rape" tag game may not have them on the lists yet but it will eventually get there.
On a personal note, do I think the gor books led to the crime being committed? No, the guy was sick without reading them. But once the sickness is there that material will feed the flame and that is what the legal and moral groups will look at. Much like Dungeons and Dragons and heavy metal were linked to teen suicide it becomes "the chicken or the egg?" were they sick before or were they made by the material to be sick? I say sick before but they don't need ideas given to them and that is what the good old censors will see.
Just thought I would share the fact that as pissed off as you get reading my rants the day is most likely coming for an overhaul on this category and don't be surprised if the savvy people who run the site head it off like they have with the other topics they avoid and discourage.
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=758546
I really swear I was going to jump off this kick but blame another lit member who pm'd me the above thread because I don't surf the BDSM forums
Unlike some of my previous rants however I am in a much better frame of mind these days and will attempt a rational explanation of my views.
for those that deem me a hypocrite because I write some BDSM material understand BDSM is consensual no matter how ugly it can get. BDSM is based- long story short-one loves to give one loves to receive. In fact in some cases the master holds back punishment because the sub craves the discipline it is consensual. I have lived the lifestyle both as Master and Sub and know of what I speak if you have not shut up until you have.
I also write incest. Literotica style 18+ incest with consensual sex. Incest is a crime although in the case of 18+ more of a moral one than a real one. In the case of an adult brother/sister living together it is difficult to prosecute because what exactly are you prosecuting?
As for the "crime" of real life incest which happens underage in reality? Well it is usually a Father/older brother/ Uncle molesting a younger girl-or boy- for that matter. Now when prosecuted the charge is not "incest" it is sexual assault, molestation or... Rape. Non consensual sex. So try again and stop pointing your fingers at me and my "material" no one there is getting anything they don't "want" and you would know that if you read it before harping on my "hypocrisy"
I have never claimed to have issues with rough sex stories. Want to be hung upside down and whipped bloody? Cool go for it want someone to piss in your mouth? be my guest. Bottom line anything between CONSENTING adults is free reign and fun for all involved. Only thing I have ever disagreed with is flat out rape stories. as in NON CONSENT.
Authors defend the category not because they like it but to defend the right to write it. That is fine but having sat back and thought calmly on it let me explain why the site itself is more than aware of what they have and the possible volatile nature of it when things like the above article surface.
the word Rape is not allowed in Titles and Tags. I wondered why that was seeing the stories contain it. Then I figured it out.
when you google or use any other search engine it works by key word. You get the most relevant results first then as you go the results become more and more vague. If someone is searching rape stories they will get the results with the word in the title or sub title first then go from there. By not allowing the word in those fields Lit is ensuring that any stories like that here are way down the list. The average guy searching for out right rape porn does not have the attention span to keep looking past the first couple pages. This is also a way of burying them further into the list in case law enforcement decides to search it as well. Clever really very clever. Especially the wording of the category itself. People looking for these stories don't use the term "non consent" they use rape. Great word play.
Lit also has, in addition to the hard rule on underage, a couple of "soft rules" one of which is no real "harm" occurring during sex. This is aimed at BDSM as well as Non consent .
harm by definition-Physical injury, especially that which is deliberately inflicted
So okay lets throw out any non consent stories like Seth P's "Janey likes it rough" because well if Janey likes it rough it is not non consent now is it?
Let's also toss all the stories that have the "rape" turn out to be a kinky sex game between couples or the woman ends up liking it. I am only addressing the percentage of flat out rape/ non consent stories.
Now my wife, who is a volunteer counselor at a woman's shelter, can professionally attest to the fact that if you have indeed been raped you have been "harmed" you have been forced into an act that will hurt you physically and scar you emotionally for life.
The other popular story line in non consent the "slavery" stories where women are kidnapped and given drugs and turned into prostitutes. I am not a lawyer or judge but I would think it would be safe to say if you were given a narcotic against your will and forced to take it until you were addicted and sold into prostitution you have in fact been "harmed"
So Literotica has it's rules to protect them just as they do for underage and snuff and any other "banned" activities. Thing is they are not being enforced. It would not be difficult. simply no more "actual" rape stories at some point it has to be consensual, a game, or the timeless literary device of a "dream sequence" anything that has the reader enjoy the thrill but in the end... well it would be "no animals were harmed during the filming of...
And absolutely no kidnapping/ forced drug story lines. Want to write about your character shooting up? Go for it but they can't shoot anyone else up.
better yet divide the category. There is always talk of "sub-categories" make "rough sex" and non consent separate. Hell they have reluctance in with non con and the two are totally different.
Bottom line love it or hate it (and me for that matter) this is a dicey category and the people in charge are aware of it and the thread linked here is exactly why they should be. Lit is adamant on underage because of the hell that could be brought down on them. Eventually it will spread to this whether it should or not. I have a friend who is a SVU detective. There are different styles of rape "crime of passion" most common and many times the victim knows the attacker. However in the case of serial rapists the police and FBI build data bases that help with profiling. Just like child molesters these criminals PC's are full of hardcore rape video's (staged or not) and rape fiction. Lit's "non rape rape" tag game may not have them on the lists yet but it will eventually get there.
On a personal note, do I think the gor books led to the crime being committed? No, the guy was sick without reading them. But once the sickness is there that material will feed the flame and that is what the legal and moral groups will look at. Much like Dungeons and Dragons and heavy metal were linked to teen suicide it becomes "the chicken or the egg?" were they sick before or were they made by the material to be sick? I say sick before but they don't need ideas given to them and that is what the good old censors will see.
Just thought I would share the fact that as pissed off as you get reading my rants the day is most likely coming for an overhaul on this category and don't be surprised if the savvy people who run the site head it off like they have with the other topics they avoid and discourage.
