something else i don't quite grok...

[silverwhisper]

i'm trying really hard to phrase this in a non-judgmental fashion so my apologies beforehand if i don't quite get there.

i really don't understand the draw of the incest & non-consent categories. what is it about these categories that people seem to find so appealing? it's obviously lost on me. i get that people would read stuff in these categories but don't necessarily want to have those experiences in real life, but i just don't get what's appealing about 'em.

am i alone in this respect? can someone try to explain this, b/c it's something i just don't understand at all.

ed

 

[TheWizard]

I would have to say it is mostly the taboo. It is forbidden in our society so it draws more appeal.

 

[Never]

I might be able to explain to you why I enjoy reading pornography with nonconsensual sex but to *grok* something is 80% your own effort.

That said, I'll point out the obvious and state that there is more than one aspect to find appealing. A single person will find some of these aspects to be more appealing than others and a single story will contain stronger amounts of some aspects than others.

Where to begin?

Cruelty, as it makes many uncomfortable. I enjoy seeing cruelty inflicted on attractive people, most female. The combination of pain, helplessness, and/or humiliation in service of my arousal compliments the eroticism of the moment. Much like the right spices complement a good steak.

Power, because I don't have enough of it. Forcing someone to do something they would give anything not to do is a sort of power. Violation plays into this.

Taboo, as the person before me said. Obviously, this is something I'd never do in real life. Transgression of personal morals, societal laws, and another's body for pleasure is heady.

On the flip side, being objectified for another's desires is also heady. Having one's consent stripped away also means having responsibility stripped away. When a person is reduced to their sexual organs then those organs are given free rein. Afterwards, there might be guilt but guilt is also sweet; if sex is dirty and worthless then those that enjoy it must be as well, once you accept you are just that, there's freedom in it.

Helpful?

 

[silverwhisper]

never: perhaps i should edit the initial post to say "get" rather than "grok". :>

yes, that does help. i don't think i'll ever fully understand, but that gets me closer than i was before asking the question, thanks.

sidenote: funny thing, when i'm getting undressed in front of my wife, she likes to pull up a pillow and watch--what can i say, she has weird tastes in men :> --but in response to that, i always say "objectify me!"

ed

 

[Never]

I am glad I could be of help.

 

[TheCaptain]

An Author who likes Incest puts down his Two Cents' Worth

Its strange, but Incest category has always been my favourite, and I guess I find it to be the main pornographic subject of interest (thou I do like other cats, just so long as I can twist them around to some form of incest)

I dont particularly know if this is a GOOD thing, or HEALTHY, but its just the way I am... and my former gf was the same way, had a massive crush on her brother and we used to roleplay and stuff with a strong incest theme. Its a weird, weird world out there, peeps... call it human nature, call it bizarre and twisted, watever, but incest is out there and will be there to stay!

BTW I'm sort of in the same position with nonconsent myself, I dont particularly consider it my 'cuppa tea', to coin a phrase... but I understand WHY it would be alluring to so many, and why FANTASIES of almost all categories are good, just as long as they arent carried too far and ppl get hurt

Hope that provides a little more insight

Capt

 

[sirhugs]

You must be really troubled by this, since it was covered in your other thread, and neither thread is really a story idea thread.

I will repeat an excerpt from the 2002 personals post which I linked up to in the other thread:

"Incest" is best, but who knows why
in reality, I'm not that kind of guy.
perhaps its the old taboo
that makes the thrill feel new
or the orgy scene
may be keen
and the age difference
might make sense
as a reason I harden
my root growing like in a garden

 

[Sean Renaud]

Well its a few things

First I can say that non-con is either something you get or you don't. My girl is suprisingly submissive and I can make her do whatever I bloody want and sometimes we get quite rough in the process, that is just the way that life is for some of us. Not to mention you have a lot of horny single depressed rejected guys who are angry.

As for incest I think part of it is the old taboo and part of it is just a vicious cycle. I don't particularly enjoy incest stories because in my opinion they tend to be some of the worst written cookie cutter stories on the site. But numbers don't lie, if you want a high body count go there. I know that my decision to write an incest tale (which got an immediate sequel) for the Earth Day contest was based entirely on the fact that I knew I would get voters and quickly. I have three incest stories and between the three of them they have more readers than my other 25 stories combined. So there is a bit of a cycle here that you write incest to be read and readers read it. Supply Demand thing. I've tried to blaze my own new path with my Erotic Horrors which end with dead girls and my Power Rangers of Hedonia story arc but neither of them (or even both combine) have the same amount of lure as a father fucking his daughter by a lake. And I won't lie after I"m through having fun (I have five more power ranger stories I'm finishing a new erotic horror and my first gay tale well under way) I like to get some readers and when I want to be read I return to where the readers are. Incest incest incest.

 

[JRaven]

My useless opinions...

Incest:
I really have to agree with Sean regarding readership. I have stories in the incest section that have way more views than the other stories. The other stories even have better vote averages. But, I'll also admit that for me, incest stories have more interesting plots. The combinations and reasons for having sex seem so much more interesting to me. Not on a sexual level, but on a story mechanics level.

Non-consent/Reluctance
Let me just put it this way. There's a guy at work that I'd really like to fuck. I know I've got a crush, the hots, just plain horny for him. And, I'm smart enough not to cheat on my husband for this guy. BUT... If he were to force himself on me, then it wouldn't be my fault. It's not that I would want him to. It's just that I fantasize about it.

Jenny

 

[sirhugs]

Incest:
I really have to agree with Sean regarding readership. I have stories in the incest section that have way more views than the other stories. The other stories even have better vote averages. But, I'll also admit that for me, incest stories have more interesting plots. The combinations and reasons for having sex seem so much more interesting to me. Not on a sexual level, but on a story mechanics level.

Non-consent/Reluctance
Let me just put it this way. There's a guy at work that I'd really like to fuck. I know I've got a crush, the hots, just plain horny for him. And, I'm smart enough not to cheat on my husband for this guy. BUT... If he were to force himself on me, then it wouldn't be my fault. It's not that I would want him to. It's just that I fantasize about it.

Jenny

Non-con: who among the shy ones here has not wished it was as simple as lifting that new intern's miniskirt as she nends over the copier. After all, she'd enjoy it....

 

[AppleBiter]

Non-consent is a fantasy and, as such, does not follow the rules of reality. It's not about the actual crime of rape, which is brutal and one of the worst things that can happen to someone. Non-consent is a completely different animal.

The fantasy, at least for me (and the stories I enjoy reading), is one of secret, hidden consent. The person being violated secretly enjoys what is happening to them, they want it. But, they have to fight and pretend that they don't. In their mind, they know it's wrong (for whatever reason) and they can't believe they're enjoying it, but they can't help themselves. That is the appeal of the non-consent fantasy, at least for me. It's a secret desire. It's a about raw lust, hidden desires, taking what doesn't belong to you because of the overwhelming lust, and a little bit of shame. For some (including me), there is just something incredibly alluring about that mixture. It gets me going.

Hope this gave you a different perspective on non-con, and hopefully one you hadn't considered.

 

[silverwhisper]

sirhugs: yeah, it does. it does quite a bit, frankly. let me explain why, perhaps that will put this into perspective.

when i write, i pour something of myself into the work in question. i don't know how it is for others, nor would i presume to know for them. that said, since that's the perspective from which i approach the creative process, i find it disturbing that it's possible someone else might put that much of themself into creating such a story.

i dunno, maybe this forum really isn't for me. or maybe i'm just reading too much into it. i guess i'll have to see.

ed

 

[sirhugs]

sirhugs: yeah, it does. it does quite a bit, frankly. let me explain why, perhaps that will put this into perspective.

when i write, i pour something of myself into the work in question. i don't know how it is for others, nor would i presume to know for them. that said, since that's the perspective from which i approach the creative process, i find it disturbing that it's possible someone else might put that much of themself into creating such a story.

i dunno, maybe this forum really isn't for me. or maybe i'm just reading too much into it. i guess i'll have to see.

ed

maybe you just need to pick your spots
if incest troulbles you, avoid it. many people do and post happily.

 

[silverwhisper]

[nods]

i suppose i'll be doing that going forward.

ed

 

[hislove66]

Non-consent is a fantasy and, as such, does not follow the rules of reality. It's not about the actual crime of rape, which is brutal and one of the worst things that can happen to someone. Non-consent is a completely different animal.

The fantasy, at least for me (and the stories I enjoy reading), is one of secret, hidden consent. The person being violated secretly enjoys what is happening to them, they want it. But, they have to fight and pretend that they don't. In their mind, they know it's wrong (for whatever reason) and they can't believe they're enjoying it, but they can't help themselves. That is the appeal of the non-consent fantasy, at least for me. It's a secret desire. It's a about raw lust, hidden desires, taking what doesn't belong to you because of the overwhelming lust, and a little bit of shame. For some (including me), there is just something incredibly alluring about that mixture. It gets me going.

Hope this gave you a different perspective on non-con, and hopefully one you hadn't considered.

Thanks applebiter, I found your post very interesting and helpful. I just hope that everyone who reads these stories (non-consent) is as aware as you and I of what you wrote in your first paragraph.

Sean Renaud: "Not to mention you have a lot of horny single depressed rejected guys who are angry."
You mean the guys who are too ugly, creepy, unclean, stupid or nasty to get any woman to fuck them?? I always knew I was right to be scared of them.

 

[snooper]

i really don't understand the draw of the incest & non-consent categories.

I don't understand the draw of fan-fic and celebrity stories, nor gay male.

As my grandfather used to say, "If every man on this earth had the same tastes, she would get very tired."

 

[sirhugs]

and I don't get interraccial. They seem very 'one note' to me, but they have a loyal audience, and a really well written one transcends its category.

 

[silverwhisper]

if every man on this earth had the same tastes, she would get very tired.

good point.

ed

 

[snooper]

... a really well written one transcends its category.

That's true of any categorisation or genre label.

 

[TheCaptain]

It's all about variety, people... here on Lit, it really is the spice of life

When I write incest stories though, I'm thinking of the votes I get only so far as 'is the story written well enough, are the details descriptive enough, does the plot develop at a good speed for the readers?' Just because incest stories get a good reading audience over some of the other categories doesn't really matter to me, it's about writing Lit that I MYSELF would enjoy reading for the audience of OTHERS more than anything else.

I absolutely detest gay male, so I avoid those stories like the plague, and BDSM doesn't interest me either. It's my perogative to skip over these stories just as its the perogative of anyone who finds incest stories distateful or not very alluring to avoid them also.

The only thing I'd like to say though before wrapping this up is that I think there are a small handful of authors who write a steady amount of incest stories (largely those who seem to have stopped writing here, but a number of which still post work also) that are pretty good at their tradecraft. I like to think that I am one of these 'above-average' authors also, as I think my stories are a fair mixture of 'buildup' and 'release' - there are a lot of fluff stories out there in the incest cat, but also some good work (like me! )

Regards to all

Capt

 

[emap]

I find incest and non consent stories float my boat, pardon the phrase but couldn't think of better, because there are times that I want to be controlled. Well not really controlled, more of no choice in the manner thing.

I like reading the non consent about being dragged under the bleachers or what have you, clothes taken off and well you know the rest, I also like reading the father and daughter stories best, not because I have a thing for my dad mind you, because whatever dad says you rather, sorta, have to do.