Some thoughts on thoughts—need some help

[rwsteward]

Hi everyone. This little bit of nonsense contains questions that I need the answers to. It's not a story, just an example I came up with.

****************

She looked up and down the platform, and she noticed several people milling about. A couple of kids were listening to their iPods. They mouthed out the words of their songs as they tapped their sneakers on the cement. An older couple, clearly dressed for an evening out, stood hand in hand as they waited on the train. A swarm of bugs flew endless circles around a flickering fluorescent light. She could hear someone beating on a defiant pop machine; the one they never seem to fix. She looked at her watch—ten till eight.

“Where’s that damn train,” she said out loud.

An old Cosmopolitan, dog eared, and well worn, lay beside her. She glanced down at the photograph on the cover. She let out a long sigh and gingerly touched the cover—touching the model’s face. To look like that, maybe all my problems would vanish.

Her eye caught movement. She looked about, her eyes like searchlights, trying to pierce the shadows. She saw something dark move. Her guts tighten. She slipped her hand inside her purse; her fingers cradled the pepper spray she always carried.

She turned back, and there he was. Directly in front of her. He was middle aged with three days worth of scruffy beard on his face. Before she could react, he opened his coat and a sudden swish of stale air rushed by her face.

“Hi ya cutie,” he said.

She moved a hand to her lips as she tried to stifle a laugh. I’ve seen bigger pricks at a Glen Beck rally she thought.

“Hey, you! Stop!” A voice called out. “Transport security!”

The stranger closed his coat and jumped down from the platform, running up the tracks.

She moved her head side-to-side. My small tits and your tiny cock would make one hell of a combination she thought to herself.

She glanced at her watch. “Where’s that damn train?” she said.


****************


Okay,

“Where’s that damn train,” she said out loud.

Since she said the words, I put them in quotes. Even though she didn’t say them to anyone, she still said them ‘out loud.”

Another one

To look like that, maybe all my problems would vanish.

She’s thinking it, but she’s not saying it. Just leave it as it is?


One more? Sure

I’ve seen bigger pricks at a Glen Beck rally she thought.

Since she’s thinking this, I didn’t put what she said into quotes because she didn’t say it. I’ve read that normally you use Italic typeface. Fine, but if the person is thinking more than one or two sentences, Italic gets rough on the eyes.

Same here

My small tits and your tiny cock would make one hell of a combination she thought to herself.

Would you put what she is thinking into quotes?
Which is correct?

“My small tits and your tiny cock would make one hell of a combination,” she thought to herself.

Leave it as is? Or?

“My small tits and your tiny cock would make one hell of a combination,” she thought to herself.

Italic only what she says? Or?

My small tits and your tiny cock would make one hell of a combination she thought to herself.

Put the entire sentence in Italic?

Thanks… Inquiring minds would like to know. Oh yeah, ‘Elements of Style’ confuses the snot out of me.

 

[baphemetis]

Put everything she says or thinks in quotes. You can use italics as an early cue to the reader that the quoted material is being thought. Try to put your attributions in as early as possible so the reader knows it's a thought and not a spoken phrase, but the italics lessen the need for this.

It's important to use the quotes because the formatting won't always survive. For example, if I copy and past this story into a text document, it might strip the formatting. The quotes will remain, however.

 

[rwsteward]

Do you put the entire sentence in italic? Including the 'she thought?'

 

[baphemetis]

Do you put the entire sentence in italic? Including the 'she thought?'

No, just the material that's in quotes. That's not to say putting the entire sentence in italics is wrong. Some people might do this. In my opinion, the italics are another way of giving the reader information, that is, these words are being thought, not spoken. So, in light of that philosophy, only the words in quotes should be italicized.

 

[sr71plt]

Are you writing in U.S. style? If so, current authority gives you two options for rendering thoughts--within doubles quotes, just like dialogue, with a dialogue slug identifying it as thought, or in straight roman, still identifying it as a thought. Although I like italics for thoughts and some publishers still use them, they aren't recognized by the standard authority any more (see 13.43 of the Chicago Manual of Style 16 for explanation).

Thus:

She looked up and down the platform, and she noticed several people milling about. A couple of kids were listening to their iPods. They mouthed out the words of their songs as they tapped their sneakers on the cement. An older couple, clearly dressed for an evening out, stood hand in hand as they waited on the train. A swarm of bugs flew endless circles around a flickering fluorescent light. She could hear someone beating on a defiant pop machine; the one they never seem to fix. She looked at her watch—ten till eight.

“Where’s that damn train,” she said out loud. [strike the "out loud." It's redundant.]

An old Cosmopolitan, dog eared, and well worn, lay beside her. She glanced down at the photograph on the cover. She let out a long sigh and gingerly touched the cover—touching the model’s face. To look like that, maybe all my problems would vanish. [Here you need to identify the last sentence as a thought, whether or not you put it in double quotes. You've changed from third person to first person otherwise and just made this confusing. To look like that, she thought, maybe all my problems would vanish. OR "To look like that," she thought," maybe all my problems would vanish."]

Her eye caught movement. She looked about, her eyes like searchlights, trying to pierce the shadows. She saw something dark move. Her guts tighten. She slipped her hand inside her purse; her fingers cradled the pepper spray she always carried.

She turned back, and there he was. Directly in front of her. He was middle aged with three days worth of scruffy beard on his face. Before she could react, he opened his coat and a sudden swish of stale air rushed by her face.

“Hi ya cutie,” he said.

She moved a hand to her lips as she tried to stifle a laugh. I’ve seen bigger pricks at a Glen Beck rally she thought.
[Either "I've seen bigger pricks at a Glen Beck Rally," she thought. OR I've seen bigger pricks at a Glen Beck rally, she thought. (note the added comma mistakenly omitted)]

“Hey, you! Stop!” A voice called out. “Transport security!”

The stranger closed his coat and jumped down from the platform, running up the tracks.

She moved her head side-to-side. My small tits and your tiny cock would make one hell of a combination she thought to herself. [EITHER My small tits and your tiny cock would make one hell of a combination, she thought. OR "My small tits and your tiny cock would make one hell of a combingation," she thought. (note the deletion of "to herself." That's the only way you can think--unless you're writing science fiction)]

She glanced at her watch. “Where’s that damn train?” she said.

 

[rwsteward]

Yes, US style. My copy of CMOS has yet to arrive.

I didn't mistakenly omitted the comma, I wasn't sure if I needed it as I didn't know how to place the quotes.

You made it somewhat clearer. So anytime someone speaks, even to themselves , you put in the quotes just like regular dialogue, right?

Either way is correct?

To look like that, she thought, maybe all my problems would vanish. OR "To look like that," she thought," maybe all my problems would vanish."


sure seems complicated doesn’t it?

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, US style. My copy of CMOS has yet to arrive.

I didn't mistakenly omitted the comma, I wasn't sure if I needed it as I didn't know how to place the quotes.

You made it somewhat clearer. So anytime someone speaks, even to themselves , you put in the quotes just like regular dialogue, right?

Either way is correct?

To look like that, she thought, maybe all my problems would vanish. OR "To look like that," she thought," maybe all my problems would vanish."


sure seems complicated doesn’t it?

Either way is sanctioned, yes. (although you misplaced the next to last quote mark).

For Literotica, if you wanted to use italics instead, that should be OK too. A lot of publishers are still doing that in the States, even though it isn't sanctioned by the authority they use for much of their guidance.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

sr, whilst I might take exception to the expressions, 'current/standard authority' and 'sanctioned', I agree with your comments and also prefer italics for thoughts, however rebellious.

This seems to be gaining ground as it avoids the heavy hand of hard punctuation and speech tags. Your edit of the comma before 'she thought' highlights the problem.

Lit and many other publishers have long accepted this and I would guess we're going through a style change.

From my reading, I think the bigger problem is that some writers keep 'thoughts' in the past tense rather than realise they must be in present tense. If you start, 'I wondered if. . . , surely you're in narration not thoughts?

 

[sr71plt]

If you start, 'I wondered if. . . , surely you're in narration not thoughts?

Yes, you are in narration here and the question of whether to quote or not doesn't arise.