Some Things Boggle The Mind...

Bob Peale

angeli ribelli
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Court rejects state's ban on cross burning
By JEAN McNAIR
Associated Press
RICHMOND - A sharply divided Virginia Supreme Court on Friday ruled that a state ban on cross burning is unconstitutional.

In a 4-3 ruling, the court threw out convictions against three people in two cross-burning cases. One involved the burning of a cross at a Ku Klux Klan rally, and the other involved the attempted burning of a cross in the back yard of a black person.

``Under our system of government, people have the right to use symbols to communicate. They patriotically wave the flag or burn it in protest; they may reverently worship the cross or burn it as an expression of bigotry,'' said the ruling written by Justice Donald W. Lemons.

``While reasonable prohibitions upon time, place, and manner of speech, and statutes of neutral application may be enforced, government may not regulate speech based on hostility - or favoritism - towards the underlying message expressed,'' Lemons wrote.

In dissent, Justice Leroy Hassell wrote that ``the majority opinion invalidates a statute that for almost 50 years has protected our citizens from being placed in fear of bodily harm by the burning of a cross.''

Virginia's General Assembly enacted the cross-burning law in 1952 in response to Klan activity. The law was amended several times.

``A number of other states have anti-cross-burning laws, especially those states that have seen a lot of Klan activity, but many of them are limited to the burning of crosses on the property of others,'' said Rodney Smolla, a University of Richmond law professor who helped the American Civil Liberties Union argue the case. ``Virginia may be the only state where cross-burning is outlawed in any context,'' he said.

Attorney General Randolph A. Beales said he will appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.

``Cross burning with the intent to intimidate is a form of domestic terrorism, which is intolerable in a free society,'' Beales said in a statement.

Kent Willis, executive director of the ACLU in Virginia, said he expected the court to strike down the law.

``As offensive as cross burning is, it is clearly protected expression under the First Amendment. The same constitutional right that allows you to burn the flag or criticize the government also allows you to express your opinions, as offensive as they may be, through burning a cross,'' Willis said.

An intermediate appeals court, the Virginia Court of Appeals, had upheld the convictions.

In one case in Carroll County, Barry Elton Black of Johnstown, Pa., was convicted in 1999 of violating the cross-burning law when he led a 1998 Klan ceremony that ended in a wooden cross being set on fire. He was fined the maximum $2,500 but received no jail time. He could have been sentenced to up to five years in prison.

The case drew national attention when the ACLU hired a black lawyer, David P. Baugh of Richmond, to defend Black.

Baugh argued that Virginia's ban on cross burning violated the constitutional right to free speech, no matter how repugnant that speech might be to many people.

In another case from Virginia Beach, two men tried to set a cross ablaze in the yard of one of the men's neighbors, who is black. The men were part of a group of people who had been drinking when the conversation turned to complaints about the neighbor of Richard J. Elliott and Elliott's desire to get back at the neighbor. The group built a crude cross, which Elliott and Jonathan Stephen O'Mara tried to ignite on the neighbor's property.

A jury convicted Elliott of attempting to burn a cross with the intent to intimidate but acquitted him of a conspiracy charge. He was sentenced to 90 days in jail and a $2,500 fine.

O'Mara pleaded guilty to both felonies. A judge sentenced him to 90 days on each charge, to be served concurrently, and a $2,500 fine. The judge suspended 45 days and $1,000 of the fine.

Prosecutors had argued that the state law was constitutional because it applied equally to anyone who burned a cross with the purpose of intimidating someone.
 
Is there a difference between someone who burns a cross on their own lawn and someone who burns a cross on their neighbor's lawn? I think so (although I can't imagine why one would do it on their own lawn.)

*Note* before anyone gets the idea that I'm a KKK supporter, I am not. I just think it is an interesting question.
 
Actually Cheyenne, I think at issue was the fact that the states that have banned them universally did so under the belief that a burning cross in general, given what it stood for, was intimidating.

Even if it wasn't on a person's property, as long as it was clearly visible it could be construed to imply a threat to members of the general populace.

On a related note, I wonder what the ordinaces are relating to swaztikas or other symbols generally regarded as representative of subversive or otherwise incendiary groups?
 
CelestialBody said:
As far as I know the swastika isn't banned anywhere. It'd be a damn good thing to know seeing as it was in use in Hindu philosphy long before Hitler perverted it. I wonder if the fuckheads knew exactly what they were ripping off?

I know that in Sanskrit it literally meaning 'it is well.' It was used by many civilizations in China, India, and the Middle East. It is considered a totem of good luck, and a symbol of the Sun's path across the sky if its arms go clockwise. When used counterclockwise, it signifies the night sky and means great events are to occur. It also has roots in Native American culture going back several thousands years.

I just tried to think of an equivalent symbol that evokes intense reactions from ordinary people.
 
Bob

``A number of other states have anti-cross-burning laws, especially those states that have seen a lot of Klan activity, but many of them are limited to the burning of crosses on the property of others,

The article says nothing about states universally banning cross burning. And in the eyes of the law there is a difference between doing it on your property instead of property owned by someone else.

The right to free speech and expression can't just be limited to ideals we like or agree with. That is the essence of free speech. Citizens do not have a Constitutional "right" not to be offended by what another person says. As much as we find it repugnant, hate speech has to be protected by free speech.
 
Miles

miles said:
``A number of other states have anti-cross-burning laws, especially those states that have seen a lot of Klan activity, but many of them are limited to the burning of crosses on the property of others,

The article says nothing about states universally banning cross burning. And in the eyes of the law there is a difference between doing it on your property instead of property owned by someone else.

The right to free speech and expression can't just be limited to ideals we like or agree with. That is the essence of free speech. Citizens do not have a Constitutional "right" not to be offended by what another person says. As much as we find it repugnant, hate speech has to be protected by free speech.

I did not say that the article said there were universal bans. I know of states that have them.

And with regard to speech, at issue is that traditionally, the burning cross preceded bodily harm or destruction of private property, not to mention trespassing and risk of damage from an open unattended flame.

And I should clarify "universal": there are several states that make it illegal to burn them in or within a certain number of feet of a common or public venue (i.e. your front yard). What you do in a field you own 1/4 mile from the road is typically NOT covered.
 
I stand corrected....you said they banned them universally...I misread the sentence.

Assuming that cross burning does not preclude an act of violence and is done on private property has to be considered free expression. Cross burning in and of itself does not mean violence is imminent.
 
I'll grant you that. When used, at least in the latter quarter of the 20th century, a burning cross on a private field as part ofa rally, regardless of societal or moral views, does not in and of itself constitute a violent act.

I suspect that was the logic behind the court's ruling.

In the first case, as part of a rally, on a stretch I can..I can't say accept, but I understand intellectually why that was protected.

However, the attempted burning in someone's yard should in no way be protected. It crosses the bounds of "free speech" when said action involves coming onto a person's property uninvited and unwanted and igniting a blaze that has the potential to damage private property.
 
We agree on the private prop. issue.

I have a solution to he problem anyway. Next time you see a klansman, skinhead. ne-nazi, or some other sub-human pond scum, blow their fucking heads off with a shotgun.

Voila. End of problem.
 
miles said:
We agree on the private prop. issue.

I have a solution to he problem anyway. Next time you see a klansman, skinhead. ne-nazi, or some other sub-human pond scum, blow their fucking heads off with a shotgun.

Voila. End of problem.

Now Miles, wouldn't that violate his civil liberties? :)

Besides, we don't have a deal unless you lump in door-to-door missionaries (gospel spreaders, seen the light, etc.), girl scouts (I hate those damn cookies!) and anybody selling vinyl siding!
 
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