Some questions

[Blangis]

Hi all,

Is it ok in a non-medieval/fantasy type story to describe a ladies features as elven or is that kind of thing frowned upon?

Is the overuse of ...'s to indicate awkward pauses also a cause of annoyance for readers? I find myself using these abundantly, sometimes numerous times in single sentences, is this amateurish? Can anyone suggest alternatives? Already I feel I perhaps interrupt dialogue too extensively by describing the speakers emotions and suchlike.

Thanks

 

[CharleyH]

Hi all,

Is it ok in a non-medieval/fantasy type story to describe a ladies features as elven or is that kind of thing frowned upon?

Is the overuse of ...'s to indicate awkward pauses also a cause of annoyance for readers? I find myself using these abundantly, sometimes numerous times in single sentences, is this amateurish? Can anyone suggest alternatives? Already I feel I perhaps interrupt dialogue too extensively by describing the speakers emotions and suchlike.

Thanks

Elven and 44DD might be typical - but Elvin is what you make of it. Much Luck with your story.

 

[kendo1]

Hi all,

Is it ok in a non-medieval/fantasy type story to describe a ladies features as elven or is that kind of thing frowned upon?

Is the overuse of ...'s to indicate awkward pauses also a cause of annoyance for readers? I find myself using these abundantly, sometimes numerous times in single sentences, is this amateurish? Can anyone suggest alternatives? Already I feel I perhaps interrupt dialogue too extensively by describing the speakers emotions and suchlike.

Thanks

How you describe your characters is up to you. It's your world.
That being said, as long as it doesn't contradict the story.
Ellipsis do tend to be frowned on... for some reason.
Commas are preferred, as are full stops. !!
Double exclamations are a no-no.

Seriously, try to restructure your sentences so that you don't use them.
Maybe describe a character as having faltering speech or shy and let the reader fill in the pauses. Contrary to popular opinion some readers can actually read.

You'll find that a lot of the time you can delete commas.

Above all- enjoy what you do.

Ken

 

[lil_elvis]

Hi all,

Is it ok in a non-medieval/fantasy type story to describe a ladies features as elven or is that kind of thing frowned upon?

Is the overuse of ...'s to indicate awkward pauses also a cause of annoyance for readers? I find myself using these abundantly, sometimes numerous times in single sentences, is this amateurish? Can anyone suggest alternatives? Already I feel I perhaps interrupt dialogue too extensively by describing the speakers emotions and suchlike.

Thanks

...'s are okay by me, how else do you indicate halting speech? 'she said hesitantly' wears thin quickly and you might need it frequently in a reluctance-oriented story. I believe the reader canquickly adapt to that style and read past it with a subconcious understanding...or at least I hope so.

 

[Stella_Omega]

"I thought. " She said. And then began again;
"I mean, I was thinking... What if we fucked in the back of the car? Would I get pregnant?"

(edited to add; Please stop interrupting dialog to describe emotions, if you can. Let the dialogue or the actions show the emotions, whenever possible, or- add a corrolary to the dialogues, such as;
"I hate it when you make me suck you!" she said, but they both knew she was lying."

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

"Elven" might be a bit anachronistic, given the strong Christianity of the times, but the story is written in modern English for contemporary readers, not medieval French or Middle English, so you have to use the conventions of the language as it is today.

(If you slip in a little bit of Chaucer's queynte [or coint, coynte, qwaynt], the readers should get the picture! I'm partial to the "coynte" version.)

 

[kendo1]

"You might... but not in the back of my car. The front however, is a completely different proposition."

Stella answered in her usual way emphasising each word as she said it, "Lets just fuck out here."

 

[CharleyH]

What if we fucked in the back of the car? Would I get pregnant?"

Depends if I have a dick with a sperm factor and you have some sort of egg.

 

[Stella_Omega]

"You might... but not in the back of my car. The front however, is a completely different proposition."

Stella answered in her usual way emphasising each word as she said it, "Lets just fuck out here."

She looked around the roadside:
"Yeah... I like that idea. I see a mudd puddle right over there, c'mon! "

 

[Stella_Omega]

Depends if I have a dick with a sperm factor and you have some sort of egg.

I think we're safe on both counts then- right?

 

[Blangis]

Thanks for all the advice so far

 

[kendo1]

Just bend over.

 

[CharleyH]

I think we're safe on both counts then- right?

Damn straight?

 

[kendo1]

Thread wandering alert!

There are some 'how to's ' somewhere.
I don't know if there is one on speech, there is one on punctuation.
Dr M will know, and probably Colly or Stella.

 

[zeb1094]

Thread wandering alert!

There are some 'how to's ' somewhere.
I don't know if there is one on speech, there is one on punctuation.
Dr M will know, and probably Colly or Stella.

There is one on Dialog, does that count? Click Here.

 

[CharleyH]

Thread wandering alert!

There are some 'how to's ' somewhere.
I don't know if there is one on speech, there is one on punctuation.
Dr M will know, and probably Colly or Stella.

ERA SPEECH ... Shanglan is the best, without a doubt - no offence to Doc or Colly or Stella, but ....

Edit to add: we all have our era's. I am not familiar enough with Colly or Stella, but I know Shang can get down 1886 or 1486, and I know Doc can pinpoint anything in his (what I have read) contemprary milieau. Colly is background detailed yes - sometimes to a fault and I don't know Stella's writing enough, you can learn from each of them, well - Stella needs work as an authour - no offence baby BIG KISS, but don't we all?

 

[BlackShanglan]

It seems only fair to point out, following Charley's extremely generous praise, that Shanglan can't write "21st century American" to save its epicene tail.

Shanglan

 

[Boxlicker101]

Hi all,

Is it ok in a non-medieval/fantasy type story to describe a ladies features as elven or is that kind of thing frowned upon?

Is the overuse of ...'s to indicate awkward pauses also a cause of annoyance for readers? I find myself using these abundantly, sometimes numerous times in single sentences, is this amateurish? Can anyone suggest alternatives? Already I feel I perhaps interrupt dialogue too extensively by describing the speakers emotions and suchlike.

Thanks

"Pixieish" might work bettere than elven.

 

[Stella_Omega]

ERA SPEECH ... Shanglan is the best, without a doubt - no offence to Doc or Colly or Stella, but ....

Edit to add: we all have our era's. I am not familiar enough with Colly or Stella, but I know Shang can get down 1886 or 1486, and I know Doc can pinpoint anything in his (what I have read) contemprary milieau. Colly is background detailed yes - sometimes to a fault and I don't know Stella's writing enough, you can learn from each of them, well - Stella needs work as an authour - no offence baby BIG KISS, but don't we all?

Darling Charley, that's very offensive.

I don't care to let you influence anyone else's viewpoint of me. You tell me you don't ever read finished work- you only read work that needs editing. So, how can you judge?
You may of course base your estimations of my skills on a story that is six years old and never finished, if you wish. Or, you could take a moment to read something that I've published- Like this one Or this one before you make a statement like that. They are both less than two full pages.

I DO need work as an authour! Anyone got a job for me?

 

[Tom Collins]

All the blathering aside, I prefer the pips. They more easily simulate natural speech to me. Opinions/assholes...you know the rest.

 

[MichelleLovesTo]

To Elven With Love

I like to ... the hell out of my stories. I use a common for a slight pause but an ellipsis for a trailing off or a longer pause. I'm also big on shy characters, and the best way to indicate that is hesitation in speech.

(Elven has left the building...)

 

[Weird Harold]

Is it ok in a non-medieval/fantasy type story to describe a ladies features as elven or is that kind of thing frowned upon?

As others have said, it's your story and your description, but if "Elven" or "Elvish" is the only description youuse, it's a bit lazy.

Even best-selling maintream Fantasy authors tend to define or qualify "Elven" with a more detailed description at least the first time an Elf is encountered.

Is the overuse of ...'s to indicate awkward pauses also a cause of annoyance for readers? I find myself using these abundantly, sometimes numerous times in single sentences, is this amateurish?

Three dots are called Ellipses, or Ellipsis in the singular, and they have a specific meaning as a punctuation mark -- they indicate something has been left out or left unfinished; an interuption of speech or thought.

Overuse of anything is a bad idea. Ellipses are a particular problem for novices because not only are they commonly overused, they're commonly used improperly. The end result is that whether you use them properly or not, using a lot of ellipses in your writing make it look like the work of a novice writer. It's sort of a guilt by association problem where extensive overuse (and misuse) of ellipses by bad writers has made almost any use of ellipses the mark of a bad writer.

The most common form of ellipsis is three periods, but three asterisks or almost any symbol or punctuation mark repeated tthree times. "###" or "***" as used to mark a change of scene or location are the most common alternate forms of Ellipses.

Ellipses have their place in writing, but it is is a far less frequent place than many people think.

 

[MichelleLovesTo]

As others have said, it's your story and your description, but if "Elven" or "Elvish" is the only description youuse, it's a bit lazy.

I disagree -- or at least say, "Not necessarily." While it should not be the only description, there is nothing wrong with leaving out some of the physical description. At least it saves the reader from an exposition dump.

Even best-selling maintream Fantasy authors tend to define or qualify "Elven" with a more detailed description at least the first time an Elf is encountered.

Well, if it's an elven community, you do need to differentiate between various members of the community.

Ellipses have their place in writing, but it is is a far less frequent place than many people think.

Bad Writing is Bad Writing: even the best techniques can be bungled by a hack. I still like the little critters. ... ... ... <-- be fruitful and multiply!

 

[BlackShanglan]

Well, if it's an elven community, you do need to differentiate between various members of the community.

I believe Weird Harold's point - and I think it a good one - is that the term "elven" now has many possible meanings, from pixie-like tiny creature with gossamer wigns to "Tolkein elves" that are more human-sized to primitivist versions that are tattooed and muscular. Defining what one means by "elven" or "elvish" becomes prudent when there are many possible versions of elves.

I'm also with him on the ellipses. Incomplete thoughts have their stylistic place, but too many of them become an annoyance to the reader. Even Joyce, genius though he may be, is not widely imitated, and there's a reason for that. Styles of writing that accurately mimick the disjointed and fleeting nature of human thought, while realistic, are often more difficult or even more dull to read than those which take more artistic license. The goal of fiction is generally not to present a blow-by-blow portrait that is wholly and entirely true to life; otherwise, we'd spend a great deal of every novel dealing with such exciting elements of human experience as the characters chewing their food, sleeping, vacuuming, washing the car, etc. Any of these things can, of course, be interesting in the right context, but that's the author's job: to select the action that is interesting and gives enough context without boring the reader to tears with minutia irrelevent to the text.

And so, too, in conversation. Even when our characters are meant to be speaking relatively "normal" English, we tend to weed out all of the um's and ah's, the mispronunciations and confused word choices and pauses of confusion. It's not that they're not real to life, but that they aren't that interesting a part of it and can (and should, generally) be condensed into one or two brief indications that the character speaks hesitantly and left at that. Indicating every single pause with ellipses is, I would argue, rather like describing every article of clothing every character is wearing each time s/he appears. It's true and accurate, but it's also tedious and distracting.

Shanglan

 

[MichelleLovesTo]

Whoa, Horsie

I believe Rumple's point - and I think it a good one - is that the term "elven" now has many possible meanings, from pixie-like tiny creature with gossamer wigns to "Tolkein elves" that are more human-sized to primitivist versions that are tattooed and muscular. Defining what one means by "elven" or "elvish" becomes prudent when there are many possible versions of elves.

Whoa, Horsie... (I just wanted to say that. )

I wasn't quoting Rumple, but rather Weird Harold.

Anyhow, it's critical to make main characters unique and easily differentiated from one another -- but physical endowments are merely one way. I don't think readers always need every mole and pubic hair to be described.

Elven would indicate to me a smaller person with tiny features, but no two readers are going to picture a character exactly the same.