Soliciting critique and discussion

[ruminator]

The recent discussion on form, content, word usage and other subjects has been fascinating. I'm new to this and I find that in my writing I blend many aspects that seem to reflect a variety of opinions expressed here.

The following piece was written yesterday as a semi-humorous reply to a post, intended to inject an abstract diversion. It was written on the fly and remains unedited for the most part. It was in response to a remark about fanning the flames on a discussion board. From all aspects the conversation was normal friendly board banter and not any attempt to solving BBS conflicts.



I offer it up for critique in regard to the form/content discussion or any other factors that might apply. I bring this one in because I gave virtually no attention to form except in the way I always try to at least maintain a form/content balance.
I know it could use some work but I wanted to offer something that is still in a naked state.

What are your thoughts and what different approaches might produce various possible results?

If you're serious about fanning the flames here...


The kindling began to glow a deep red at first.
Shavings of straw laying loose before her awaiting ignition.
Spreading colors of anticipation jumped from one to another.
Her fondling progressed to a more deliberate
back and forth motion in an effort to fan the embers into flames.

Growing more impatient, she falls to her knees, pursuing her endeavor.
Leaning down and in, she first blows softly over the building intensity.
Slowly pulling back to assess her effect,
she inhales deeply and lowers her head once again.

The rythmic motion continues to proceed more rapidly.
Soft whispers of exhalation as she's going down,
whimpers of excitement as her body sways
in this pyrosensual dance to fan the flames.

With a full breath expanding in her lungs, trying to contain it her in mouth,
she dives down one last time with the intensity consuming them both.
Holding still as the last gasp of air escapes her lips ,
the embers burst into flames.
Slowly she rocks back to enjoy her fire's glow, licking her lips in satisfaction.

 

[Angeline]

The recent discussion on form, content, word usage and other subjects has been fascinating. I'm new to this and I find that in my writing I blend many aspects that seem to reflect a variety of opinions expressed here.

The following piece was written yesterday as a semi-humorous reply to a post, intended to inject an abstract diversion. It was written on the fly and remains unedited for the most part. It was in response to a remark about fanning the flames on a discussion board. From all aspects the conversation was normal friendly board banter and not any attempt to solving BBS conflicts.



I offer it up for critique in regard to the form/content discussion or any other factors that might apply. I bring this one in because I gave virtually no attention to form except in the way I always try to at least maintain a form/content balance.
I know it could use some work but I wanted to offer something that is still in a naked state.

What are your thoughts and what different approaches might produce various possible results?

If you're serious about fanning the flames here...


The kindling began to glow a deep red at first.
Shavings of straw laying loose before her awaiting ignition.
Spreading colors of anticipation jumped from one to another.
Her fondling progressed to a more deliberate
back and forth motion in an effort to fan the embers into flames.

Growing more impatient, she falls to her knees, pursuing her endeavor.
Leaning down and in, she first blows softly over the building intensity.
Slowly pulling back to assess her effect,
she inhales deeply and lowers her head once again.

The rythmic motion continues to proceed more rapidly.
Soft whispers of exhalation as she's going down,
whimpers of excitement as her body sways
in this pyrosensual dance to fan the flames.

With a full breath expanding in her lungs, trying to contain it her in mouth,
she dives down one last time with the intensity consuming them both.
Holding still as the last gasp of air escapes her lips ,
the embers burst into flames.
Slowly she rocks back to enjoy her fire's glow, licking her lips in satisfaction.

Ok, buddy. You asked for it and now you're gonna get it. I'll Angeline-ize your poem.

I think less is more in writing and I usually try to get rid of any words that seem extraneous. To me, that makes for a tighter (usually better) read. '

Sooooo, here's how I'd revise it. You understand that these are only suggestions--if you think they help, fine. If not no worries, k?

The kindling glowed deep and shavings
of straw lay loose awaiting her ignition.
The colors of anticipation spread, jumped
one to another, and her fondling grew
more deliberate, back and forth ember
and the smoke of impatience. She

fell to her knees, pursued her endeavor
down and in, soft over intensity
building slowly. She pulled back
to assess the effect, inhaled deeply.
She lowered her head again, again

rhythmic rapidity in soft whispers
of exhalation down and in whimpered
excitement, in the full body sway
of this pyrosensual dance, this flame

expanding with the full breath of lungs
that her mouth could not contain,
diving to one last consumption
of intensity to swallow us both
to stillness as the last gasp of air
escaped her lips, as she rocked slow,
enjoyed fireglow, licked satisfaction.

 

[ruminator]

Thanks..

What is the new form?

What was the original form was no there no form at all?

Did the revision alter the content?

 

[bluerains]

Ok, buddy. You asked for it and now you're gonna get it. I'll Angeline-ize your poem.

I think less is more in writing and I usually try to get rid of any words that seem extraneous. To me, that makes for a tighter (usually better) read. '

Sooooo, here's how I'd revise it. You understand that these are only suggestions--if you think they help, fine. If not no worries, k?

The kindling glowed deep and shavings
}kindling aglow, warm and deep with{
am thinking this works also to cut ..the....

of straw lay loose awaiting her ignition.
The colors of anticipation spread, jumped
one to another, and her fondling grew
more deliberate, back and forth ember
and the smoke of impatience. She

fell to her knees, pursued her endeavor
down and in, soft over intensity
building slowly. She pulled back
to assess the effect, inhaled deeply.
She lowered her head again, again

rhythmic rapidity in soft whispers
of exhalation down and in whimpered
excitement, in the full body sway
of this pyrosensual dance, this flame

expanding with the full breath of lungs
that her mouth could not contain,
diving to one last consumption
of intensity to swallow us both
to stillness as the last gasp of air
escaped her lips, as she rocked slow,
enjoyed fireglow, licked satisfaction.

 

[ruminator]

...she's quite good, isn't she?




nice to see you again

 

[bluerains]

absolutely...

...she's quite good, isn't she?




nice to see you again

her sytle is one of my favorites as well as wicked eve..neonurotic.. annaswirls...they can chop the hell out of a poem and loose nothing in meaning...and oft times form is not a problem for them..read more ..of all of those they are really kool... as learning how to curb your pen... but, I have other favorites here as well for other reasons...erotic tale...sandspike.... tath...poetess..dulac. more than my aging mind can wrap around...am afraid

 

[ruminator]

her sytle is one of my favorites as well as wicked eve..neonurotic.. annaswirls...they can chop the hell out of a poem and loose nothing in meaning...and oft times form is not a problem for them..read more ..of all of those they are really kool... as learning how to curb your pen... but, I have other favorites here as well for other reasons...erotic tale...sandspike.... tath...poetess..

I agree.

I was only trying to understand why and not just learn to duplicate a style.

 

[ruminator]

her sytle is one of my favorites as well as wicked eve..neonurotic.. annaswirls...they can chop the hell out of a poem and loose nothing in meaning...and oft times form is not a problem for them..read more ..of all of those they are really kool... as learning how to curb your pen... but, I have other favorites here as well for other reasons...erotic tale...sandspike.... tath...poetess..dulac. more than my aging mind can wrap around...am afraid

Do you see the two works differently by curbing the pen? I agree it's a much better read but I think tightening the form sets a different atmosphere for the reader to absorb.

I think the tighter form encourages the content to be taken more seriously.



The first work was more similar to a handfull of paragraphs pulled from a larger story. Is there a name for this? Is there a market for this in regard to readers or consumers?

 

[bluerains]

well,

Do you see the two works differently by curbing the pen? I agree it's a much better read but I think tightening the form sets a different atmosphere for the reader to absorb.

I think the tighter form encourages the content to be taken more seriously.

am thinking in our faster pace world we tend to let our mind fill in the blanks...and it does..I read books that way also...speed reading past the mundane...bad form huh...
ouy.. when I read a poem I don't want it to trickle but to ride the raging rapids and end with a woooh...

 

[ruminator]

am thinking in our faster pace world we tend to let our mind fill in the blanks...and it does..I read books that way also...speed reading past the mundane...bad form huh...
ouy.. when I read a poem I don't want it to trickle but to ride the raging rapids and end with a woooh...

Now, that is an explanation I can understand. It would be easier if all words were written for the pleasure and individual preferences of one soul.

 

[bluerains]

Now, that is an explanation I can understand. It would be easier if all words were written for the pleasure and individual preferences of one soul.

am glad to be of not so perfect service in the poetic realm....

 

[ruminator]

am glad to be of not so perfect service in the poetic realm....

I didn't mean any offense by my remark. I'm sorry if you took it that way.

 

[Angeline]

First off, thank you Rumi and blue for the kind words.

Rumi, it's still a free verse poem which is what it started out being. All I did was take out some words, add a few new ones and shift things around. Overall, it's not that different from your original.

It seems different though, doesn't it?

I think what sets poetry apart from prose (in addition to the structure, which Liar explained rather eloquently in another thread ) is the intensity of the imagery. Especially in a poem where you want to sort of tell a story, if you present one undiluted image after another, you paint a more evocative picture--one that a reader can absorb more with senses than understand with intellect. The poems that we remember because they move us are the ones that make us feel something. I "know" how it feels to hold a flower to my face, the sensations of that and so do you, but if I describe it in a way that makes you feel it (by evoking your own memories of it) rather than explain it so you simply understand what I've described, it's more memorable. Good poems are memorable.

If you take out all the unnecessary words from a piece of writing so you make the images your message and you try to avoid cliches, say things in unexpected ways, you usually have a pretty good piece of poetry. I'm not sure what I did to your poem made it that, but I'm sure that's an approach that can produce a good poem.

 

[bluerains]

no no

I didn't mean any offense by my remark. I'm sorry if you took it that way.

am not offended...was meaning ...I am not the best judge of what a poem should be...after all am one who tends to break a lot of rules in language...Qp..says my use of language is mysterious....to say the least....

 

[ruminator]

am not offended...was meaning ...I am not the best judge of what a poem should be...after all am one who tends to break a lot of rules in language...Qp..says my use of language is mysterious....to say the least....

I'm not a very good judge either...

I just like to write.

Thanks to both you and Ange for the help.

 

[quietpoet]

Really?

I am not the best judge of what a poem should be...after all am one who tends to break a lot of rules in language...Qp..says my use of language is mysterious....to say the least....

Actually, I read all of her poems and she is being totally honest when she says she breaks all of the rules! However, I DO think she is an excellent judge of what is good or not... there is a dichotomy there I think... hmm. In any case, I really liked the poem you wrote and, like Angeline and Blue, any changes I made would be subtle and just eliminate the fluff. I loved the metaphor!

John

 

[quietpoet]

I have to come back ONE more time on this!

I DO have one thing I would change here though, the word pyrosensual. Obviously it is the metaphor, and I think it is better left unsaid than stated. Stated it is redundant.

John

 

[ruminator]

Actually, I read all of her poems and she is being totally honest when she says she breaks all of the rules! However, I DO think she is an excellent judge of what is good or not... there is a dichotomy there I think... hmm. In any case, I really liked the poem you wrote and, like Angeline and Blue, any changes I made would be subtle and just eliminate the fluff. I loved the metaphor!

John

I still had many changes in mind to make before I posted it here. I wanted to present something that I didn't hold with a great emotional investment.

Some of the questions I still have are concerning the fluff. Is it that wrong to have some fluff in a frivilous piece? Do average readers by the majority dislike reading full sentences? It could be that what I originally posted is still an inadequate work but the question about the fluff in general still nags at me.

Is there any acceptable style similar to that?

 

[ruminator]

I DO have one thing I would change here though, the word pyrosensual. Obviously it is the metaphor, and I think it is better left unsaid than stated. Stated it is redundant.

John

Repetitively redundant?



It could do very well without it.

 

[Angeline]

Repetitively redundant?



It could do very well without it.

Not to be disagreeable, but why take it out? At first I didn't like it because it seemed redundant to me, too, but if you take out some of the other references to fire and fanning flames, I think it works rather well. It's a word you made up, right? I like made up words.

I also wanted to say that I had a mentor a few years back--a wonderful talented poet who really helped me become more disciplined about writing. He had this analogy that writing a poem is like baking a cake and that good simple cakes are better than ones you goo up with lots of extra unnecessary stuff that sweetens the cake, but really wrecks it. He said get rid of all that extra stuff--you bake good cakes, you don't need it. He was right--I have been working at paring poems down, getting rid of anything that is unnecessarily extra, ever since.

 

[ruminator]

Not to be disagreeable, but why take it out? At first I didn't like it because it seemed redundant to me, too, but if you take out some of the other references to fire and fanning flames, I think it works rather well. It's a word you made up, right? I like made up words.

I also wanted to say that I had a mentor a few years back--a wonderful talented poet who really helped me become more disciplined about writing. He had this analogy that writing a poem is like baking a cake and that good simple cakes are better than ones you goo up with lots of extra unnecessary stuff that sweetens the cake, but really wrecks it. He said get rid of all that extra stuff--you bake good cakes, you don't need it. He was right--I have been working at paring poems down, getting rid of anything that is unnecessarily extra, ever since.

I honestly see the merit in that.

I know some really good songs that might be better without some of the instrumental interludes. I wonder why music isn't pared down to only the basic notes needed?

 

[bluerains]

how about

I DO have one thing I would change here though, the word pyrosensual. Obviously it is the metaphor, and I think it is better left unsaid than stated. Stated it is redundant.

John

using pyrosensual..as a title...luv it...

 

[quietpoet]

I like it as a title also!

using pyrosensual..as a title...luv it...

I think the concept can evolve, you have a lot of potential with this one. I do, also, like Angeline's point (and she is MUCH cuter than me, as is Blue), but I personally try to be a little more vague in much of my writing. I want the reader to ponder a bit...

John

 

[ruminator]

I think the concept can evolve, you have a lot of potential with this one. I do, also, like Angeline's point (and she is MUCH cuter than me, as is Blue), but I personally try to be a little more vague in much of my writing. I want the reader to ponder a bit...

John

I don't want anyone to think that the original post is the best I'm capable of producing.

I do however think that really good, correctly formatted poetry might be too much for some folks to comprehend.

 

[annaswirls]

just a quick go. Upon reading "Ange-ify" I figured I would give it a try, Annarate it.




a lot lost in translation, I know, I did it quickly


embers glow deep red
fanned with puffs of breath,
scattered straw anticipates ignition

growing in intensity
on knees, eye level
soft whispers of exhalation
she lowers her body down
and sways in a pyrosensual dance

white cotton stretches as
lungs expand for one last dive
with an all consuming intensity
embers erupt into fire

she rocks back
licking her lips in satisfaction
flames tongues flicker
in their turn to dance
her body to ignition