So the status and treatment of the prisoners in Cuba...
- Thread starter p_p_man
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p_p_man
The 'Euro' European
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lobito said:I STILL live for the day that you and Todd stop bashing the U.S. all the time, and start bashing your own countries more...
How the fuck can this headline be construed as "bashing the US"?
Or are you one of those people who can't abide even the slightest comment about your system.
Well sorry to tell you this but you ain't isolated any more. The civil rights groups in America are bringing the test against a background of global disquiet about how the prisoners are treated.
Whether they will get very far we shall have to wait and see. But at least it's a step in the right legal direction.
Or would you prefer to take the the prisoners singly behind a tree and shoot them in the back of the head?
At least that gets rid of the problem.
ppman
Last edited:
Blair Defends Treatment of Detainees at U.S. Cuba Base
GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba - Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain sought Monday to ease tensions that blew up over the weekend about U.S. treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo prison, saying three Britons held captive there "had no complaints."
.
A British team visited the prison camp at Guantanamo Bay during the weekend, at the same time that newspapers at home were playing up pictures of Taliban and Al Qaeda prisoners shackled and kneeling. The news coverage prompted the government in London to ask the United States to explain itself.
.
The British team said that the three British prisoners "had no complaints about their treatment," Mr
. Blair's official spokesman said Monday.
.
"They are in good physical health and there was no sign of any mistreatment," the spokesman said. "They have also had contact with the Red Cross."
.
He added, "The three asked for a number of messages to be passed to their families and we are in the process of doing that."
.
"There were no gags, no goggles, no ear muffs, no shackles while the detainees are in their cells. They only wear shackles - and only shackles - when they are outside their cells."
.
After publication and broadcast of U.S. Defense Department photographs of the captives, a group of British legislators and human rights groups pressed for the detainees to be given prisoner-of-war status under the Geneva Convention. Such status would mean they would be tried under the same procedures as U.S. soldiers - through courts-martial or civilian courts, not military tribunals.
.
A group of 34 more detainees arrived at the base from Afghanistan on Sunday, pushing the total number to 144.
.
In Los Angeles on Sunday, Judge Howard Matz of U.S. District Court decided to consider a petition backed by former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and other civil rights advocates that challenges the Guantanamo detentions. Judge Matz scheduled a hearing for Tuesday morning.
.
The petition alleges that the detainees are being held in violation of the Geneva Convention and the U.S. Constitution. It wants due-process guarantees and seeks to block any transfer of the detainees from the base.
.
The judge will first have to decide on his jurisdiction, which is typically based on geographical relevance, and on whether California plaintiffs have legal standing to pursue a case involving prisoners held at a U.S. facility in Cuba.
.
U.S. treatment of the suspects has posed a foreign policy challenge for Mr. Blair since he put Britain solidly behind Washington in the war against terrorism.
.
After one London Sunday tabloid accused the United States of torturing prisoners, Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said he told British representatives at Guantanamo Bay to ask American officials for an explanation.
.
In Washington, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said that the accusations of mistreatment had come from people who were not knowledgeable about the detention conditions, and that he had "no doubt" the detainees were being treated humanely.
.
But on Monday, more British newspapers assailed the treatment.
.
In its early edition, The Mirror ran a front-page editorial calling it "barbaric" and "Barbarism that is backed by our government."
.
The paper also said President George W. Bush was "close to achieving the impossible - losing the sympathy of the civilized world" for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the United States.
.
"Britain and U.S. in rift over terrorist prisoners," said The Daily Telegraph, which, like all the serious broadsheet newspapers, made the issue front-page news Monday.
.
A day earlier, The Mail on Sunday tabloid ran a cover photo under the headline "Tortured," and wrote, "First pictures show use of sensory deprivation to soften suspects for interrogation."
.
U.S. officials have said stringent security is needed because many of the prisoners are dangerous and some have threatened to kill their U.S. captors. On Wednesday, an inmate bit the forearm of a military police officer who tried to subdue him.
_______
No need to worry my American friends, several of my Brit countrymen went deep undercover as part of Al-Queda and the Taleban to keep an eye on US treatment of prisoners. John Walker was not ambitious enough, us English chaps finish the job.
GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba - Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain sought Monday to ease tensions that blew up over the weekend about U.S. treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo prison, saying three Britons held captive there "had no complaints."
.
A British team visited the prison camp at Guantanamo Bay during the weekend, at the same time that newspapers at home were playing up pictures of Taliban and Al Qaeda prisoners shackled and kneeling. The news coverage prompted the government in London to ask the United States to explain itself.
.
The British team said that the three British prisoners "had no complaints about their treatment," Mr
. Blair's official spokesman said Monday.
.
"They are in good physical health and there was no sign of any mistreatment," the spokesman said. "They have also had contact with the Red Cross."
.
He added, "The three asked for a number of messages to be passed to their families and we are in the process of doing that."
.
"There were no gags, no goggles, no ear muffs, no shackles while the detainees are in their cells. They only wear shackles - and only shackles - when they are outside their cells."
.
After publication and broadcast of U.S. Defense Department photographs of the captives, a group of British legislators and human rights groups pressed for the detainees to be given prisoner-of-war status under the Geneva Convention. Such status would mean they would be tried under the same procedures as U.S. soldiers - through courts-martial or civilian courts, not military tribunals.
.
A group of 34 more detainees arrived at the base from Afghanistan on Sunday, pushing the total number to 144.
.
In Los Angeles on Sunday, Judge Howard Matz of U.S. District Court decided to consider a petition backed by former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and other civil rights advocates that challenges the Guantanamo detentions. Judge Matz scheduled a hearing for Tuesday morning.
.
The petition alleges that the detainees are being held in violation of the Geneva Convention and the U.S. Constitution. It wants due-process guarantees and seeks to block any transfer of the detainees from the base.
.
The judge will first have to decide on his jurisdiction, which is typically based on geographical relevance, and on whether California plaintiffs have legal standing to pursue a case involving prisoners held at a U.S. facility in Cuba.
.
U.S. treatment of the suspects has posed a foreign policy challenge for Mr. Blair since he put Britain solidly behind Washington in the war against terrorism.
.
After one London Sunday tabloid accused the United States of torturing prisoners, Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said he told British representatives at Guantanamo Bay to ask American officials for an explanation.
.
In Washington, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said that the accusations of mistreatment had come from people who were not knowledgeable about the detention conditions, and that he had "no doubt" the detainees were being treated humanely.
.
But on Monday, more British newspapers assailed the treatment.
.
In its early edition, The Mirror ran a front-page editorial calling it "barbaric" and "Barbarism that is backed by our government."
.
The paper also said President George W. Bush was "close to achieving the impossible - losing the sympathy of the civilized world" for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the United States.
.
"Britain and U.S. in rift over terrorist prisoners," said The Daily Telegraph, which, like all the serious broadsheet newspapers, made the issue front-page news Monday.
.
A day earlier, The Mail on Sunday tabloid ran a cover photo under the headline "Tortured," and wrote, "First pictures show use of sensory deprivation to soften suspects for interrogation."
.
U.S. officials have said stringent security is needed because many of the prisoners are dangerous and some have threatened to kill their U.S. captors. On Wednesday, an inmate bit the forearm of a military police officer who tried to subdue him.
_______
No need to worry my American friends, several of my Brit countrymen went deep undercover as part of Al-Queda and the Taleban to keep an eye on US treatment of prisoners. John Walker was not ambitious enough, us English chaps finish the job.
p_p_man
The 'Euro' European
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2001
- Posts
- 24,253
I see also that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld
got very tetchy today when he was questioned about the prisoners by American journalists. Even going as far as insulting the British House of Commons.
It doesn't look as though the Administration expected this sort of reaction.
ppman (the real one)
got very tetchy today when he was questioned about the prisoners by American journalists. Even going as far as insulting the British House of Commons.
It doesn't look as though the Administration expected this sort of reaction.
ppman (the real one)
SINthysist
Rural Racist Homophobe
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2001
- Posts
- 11,940
The treatment of Taliban prisoners in Cuba is much better than the treatment of Cubans by the enlightened government of Cuba. If they don't think so, we can give them over to Fidel and see how long it takes them to build rafts to get to Florida.
M
miles
Guest
Since you don't live in the real world, doo doo boy, let's play your make believe game..
Let's pretend that one of these subhuman jihad jerkoffs is subjected to unspeakable physical torture - the kind none of us even wants to imagine.
Eventually he reaches his breaking point and reveals information that includes more planned terrorist attacks which will kill hundreds or thousands of innocent people.
Is the torture of one man worth the lives of others?
Speaking for myself, the humane treatment of these animals isn't at the top of my list of concerns.
Let's pretend that one of these subhuman jihad jerkoffs is subjected to unspeakable physical torture - the kind none of us even wants to imagine.
Eventually he reaches his breaking point and reveals information that includes more planned terrorist attacks which will kill hundreds or thousands of innocent people.
Is the torture of one man worth the lives of others?
Speaking for myself, the humane treatment of these animals isn't at the top of my list of concerns.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: I see also that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld
Perhaps you'd like to post a link to the quote where Rumsfeld is insulting the House of Commons.
I'll be up most of the night.
p_p_man said:
Perhaps you'd like to post a link to the quote where Rumsfeld is insulting the House of Commons.
I'll be up most of the night.
JazzManJim
On the Downbeat
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2001
- Posts
- 27,360
Well, let the actual debunking begin!
The Red Cross has been given full access to the prisoners, despite there being nothing whatever that mandates us allowing this. Second, the prisoners need not be classified as prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention, since the GC only guarantees a certain level of treatment, which has already been given (and then some!). In fact, in an interview with CNN's Bob Franken, the head of the INternational Red Cross said that he's been to see many of the detainees, in complete privacy, and that the detainees appear well-treated and suggested that the complaints about how the prisoners were treated were no entirely accurate. The paraphrased quote from Franken was "...he said that the impressions from outside groups often times are not the same ones that you will have from people who have actually seen the conditions."
The lawsuit is currently on hold as both sides supply briefs to the presiding judge. The judge is attempting to decide if he even has jurisdiction to hear the case.
The fact is that the United States has termed these prisoners "war criminals" and are holding them until such time as the situation has stabilized enough that a correct disposition can be made on them. The classification has definite precident and was used by the UN in Bosnia, most recently. Talibal troops have committed acts that absolutely can and should be termed war crimes, if the standard used by the UN recently has any weight whatsoever.
Security at the camp is appropriate, considering that fellow soldiers held at Mazar-E-Sharif managed to overpower their guards and kill all of them. That alone would warrant far stricter security than has been used before. Fortunately for these prisoners, they've not been subjected to the kind of security measures used in maximum-security prisons in the US and other countries. I wonder what would be said then.
Oh, and the parade of British journalistic boobery seemed to end with "The Sun" newspaper actually managing to study what observers at the camp have reported seeing. It's headline, plainly says: LIES
Oh and before anyone uses the "The Sun is a politically conservative newspaper" argument, be careful. I'll be using the same stupid accusation on you also.
The Red Cross has been given full access to the prisoners, despite there being nothing whatever that mandates us allowing this. Second, the prisoners need not be classified as prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention, since the GC only guarantees a certain level of treatment, which has already been given (and then some!). In fact, in an interview with CNN's Bob Franken, the head of the INternational Red Cross said that he's been to see many of the detainees, in complete privacy, and that the detainees appear well-treated and suggested that the complaints about how the prisoners were treated were no entirely accurate. The paraphrased quote from Franken was "...he said that the impressions from outside groups often times are not the same ones that you will have from people who have actually seen the conditions."
The lawsuit is currently on hold as both sides supply briefs to the presiding judge. The judge is attempting to decide if he even has jurisdiction to hear the case.
The fact is that the United States has termed these prisoners "war criminals" and are holding them until such time as the situation has stabilized enough that a correct disposition can be made on them. The classification has definite precident and was used by the UN in Bosnia, most recently. Talibal troops have committed acts that absolutely can and should be termed war crimes, if the standard used by the UN recently has any weight whatsoever.
Security at the camp is appropriate, considering that fellow soldiers held at Mazar-E-Sharif managed to overpower their guards and kill all of them. That alone would warrant far stricter security than has been used before. Fortunately for these prisoners, they've not been subjected to the kind of security measures used in maximum-security prisons in the US and other countries. I wonder what would be said then.
Oh, and the parade of British journalistic boobery seemed to end with "The Sun" newspaper actually managing to study what observers at the camp have reported seeing. It's headline, plainly says: LIES
Oh and before anyone uses the "The Sun is a politically conservative newspaper" argument, be careful. I'll be using the same stupid accusation on you also.
