So, out of curiosity....

[SEVERUSMAX]

....I attended a Catholic mass this morning. For all of the differences, I was struck by the similarities to Protestant services I have attended in my lifetime. I was always struck by the extent of the congregation's participation in the service and liturgy. Is this typical?

Any Catholics here who wish to tell me, please do so. I don't wish to denigrate your faith, just to clear that up.

 

[LordMithras]

Post-Vatican II reforms at work, methinks. Though I'm not Catholic anymore. My wife would probably say it's typical.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Post-Vatican II reforms at work, methinks. Though I'm not Catholic anymore. My wife would probably say it's typical.

Definitely. Prior to Vat-II the priest 'did' for the congregation. BTW, it was one of the things that set off the Reformation.

 

[desertslave]

I grew up Lutheran, my best friends were Catholic. Very, very few differences in the regular services/masses. Same with Episcopal and Methodist.

In my area (central PA in the 70s) the Catholic church was actually more progressive in experimenting with the mass. They did a Saturday evening 'folk mass' with acoustic guitars (my friends and I played semi-regularly) and contemporary music. There's a "Missa Bossa Nova" arrangement to the liturgy that was awesome.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Fascinating...another fascinating thing is that the homily's message sounded very similar to many evangelical Protestant sermons that I heard in my youth. As a pagan, I naturally see the similarities more, anyway, since the differences don't loom as large as they do for Christians. Still, I think that few evangelical Protestants would find much to object to in the message itself.

 

[Guest]

There are many similarities in the services. Especially the worship leader/congregation call and response (The Lord be with you, and also with you, Amen - Go in peace, serve the Lord, thanks be to God) as well as the motions for each part of the worship service "stand up sit down fight fight fight".

This came about from Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation.

From Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther

Martin Luther (November 10, 1483–February 18, 1546) was a German monk,[1] theologian, university professor, Father of Protestantism,[2][3][4][5] and church reformer whose ideas influenced the Protestant Reformation and changed the course of Western civilization.[6]

Luther's theology challenged the authority of the papacy by holding that the Bible is the only infallible source of religious authority[7] and that all baptized Christians under Jesus are a universal priesthood.[8] According to Luther, salvation is a free gift of God, received only by true repentance and faith in Jesus as the Messiah, a faith given by God and unmediated by the church.

Luther's confrontation with the Holy Roman Emperor, Charles V, at the Diet of Worms over freedom of conscience in 1521 and his refusal to submit to the authority of the Emperor resulted in his being declared an outlaw of the state as he had been excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church.

His translation of the Bible into the vernacular made the Scriptures more accessible to ordinary people, and had a tremendous political impact on the church and on German culture. It furthered the development of a standard version of the German language, added several principles to the art of translation,[9] and influenced the translation of the English King James Bible.[10] His hymns inspired the development of congregational singing within Christianity.[11] His marriage to Katharina von Bora set a model for the practice of clerical marriage within Protestantism.[12]

 

[voluptuary_manque]

There are many similarities in the services. Especially the worship leader/congregation call and response (The Lord be with you, and also with you, Amen - Go in peace, serve the Lord, thanks be to God) as well as the motions for each part of the worship service "stand up sit down fight fight fight".

This came about from Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation.

From Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther

Martin Luther (November 10, 1483–February 18, 1546) was a German monk,[1] theologian, university professor, Father of Protestantism,[2][3][4][5] and church reformer whose ideas influenced the Protestant Reformation and changed the course of Western civilization.[6]

Luther's theology challenged the authority of the papacy by holding that the Bible is the only infallible source of religious authority[7] and that all baptized Christians under Jesus are a universal priesthood.[8] According to Luther, salvation is a free gift of God, received only by true repentance and faith in Jesus as the Messiah, a faith given by God and unmediated by the church.

Luther's confrontation with the Holy Roman Emperor, Charles V, at the Diet of Worms over freedom of conscience in 1521 and his refusal to submit to the authority of the Emperor resulted in his being declared an outlaw of the state as he had been excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church.

His translation of the Bible into the vernacular made the Scriptures more accessible to ordinary people, and had a tremendous political impact on the church and on German culture. It furthered the development of a standard version of the German language, added several principles to the art of translation,[9] and influenced the translation of the English King James Bible.[10] His hymns inspired the development of congregational singing within Christianity.[11] His marriage to Katharina von Bora set a model for the practice of clerical marriage within Protestantism.[12]

More books have been published on Martin Luther than on any other figure in Euro-American history. More, even, than on Lincoln. He was the first successful revolutionary, the first media lion . . . quite possibly the linch-pin for post-crucifixion history.

 

[Guest]

More books have been published on Martin Luther than on any other figure in Euro-American history. More, even, than on Lincoln. He was the first successful revolutionary, the first media lion . . . quite possibly the linch-pin for post-crucifixion history.

You're speaking with a fourth generation Lutheran here.

I admire what Luther did, especially his emphasis on education, on bringing the word to the people in their own language. (And removing the power from the priests in the process).

I wish he hadn't been so fucked up with his viewpoint on Jewish people, of course.

 

[Guest]

Besides, anyone who can pull off this look has my vote.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/sweetsubsarahh/Luther.jpg

 

[voluptuary_manque]

You're speaking with a fourth generation Lutheran here.

I admire what Luther did, especially his emphasis on education, on bringing the word to the people in their own language. (And removing the power from the priests in the process).

I wish he hadn't been so fucked up with his viewpoint on Jewish people, of course.

For all his progressive views, Luther was still a Medieval man. His views on uppity peasants and Jews reflect the times he lived in. None of us can ever fully transcend our environments but anyone who can do so as well as Father Martin really racks up the brownie points.

My dad got a job directing choir at a Lutheran church many years ago. We're economic converts!

It's a long story. I'll tell you some time if you've got insomnia.

 

[desertslave]

LOL, Our choir director was Catholic! Years later we learned he was boffing one of my friend's moms on the side. Stranger than fiction.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

LOL, Our choir director was Catholic! Years later we learned he was boffing one of my friend's moms on the side. Stranger than fiction.

Oh heck, no. Hankie-Pankie in the choir loft is an old, old story.

 

[Guest]

Oh heck, no. Hankie-Pankie in the choir loft is an old, old story.

Hush!

(Says someone who has been choir director at Methodist, Lutheran, and Covenant churches. Ahem.)

 

[desertslave]

"So this is how I'll help you hit that high A....."

 

[Guest]

"So this is how I'll help you hit that high A....."

A?

*scoff*

I'm still singing above high C.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

A?

*scoff*

I'm still singing above high C.

Best I ever did was the high G in the Carmina Burana. I sang the drunken Abbot of Cucany.