Slingin' Slang.

[SimonDoom]

It's what you're used to!

I'm not the only person I know who needed subtitles for True Blood (that counts as Southern US, right? I know Texas technically isn't, but we got exposed to Dallas in the 80s). Obviously we get lots more exposure to American films and TV than you get British stuff, but even so I find accents that aren't Your Typical American Newsreader tricky and couldn't distinguish any beyond say Texan, Southern, her from Fargo what sounds like my aunt, and New York and New England (doubt I could distinguish those last two).

While every time I hear 'she had a British accent' I'm leaping up and down going 'can't you at least tell Northern English, Southern English, Welsh and Scottish are different, not to mention Estuary, West Country, and Glaswegian?' But I've had enough American friends and colleagues to know most really can't, not until they've been here a few years.

I can tell the difference, mostly. I can tell the difference between a Yorkish accent and a Liverpudlian (Scouse, I think) accent. But in general Americans just don't pay attention. They know the difference between a posh British accent and lower class British accent, but even that's questionable, because if you were to cast an upper class British character part with an actor that spoke with a working class London accent most Americans wouldn't notice. I noticed the strange mixture of accents in Game of Thrones, including the mix of accents within single families, but I'm sure I'm in a tiny minority of Americans who did.

To me, New York and Boston accents sound very, very different, but it wouldn't surprise me if to Brits they're almost indistinguishable.

 

[MelissaBaby]

It's what you're used to!

I'm not the only person I know who needed subtitles for True Blood (that counts as Southern US, right? I know Texas technically isn't, but we got exposed to Dallas in the 80s). Obviously we get lots more exposure to American films and TV than you get British stuff, but even so I find accents that aren't Your Typical American Newsreader tricky and couldn't distinguish any beyond say Texan, Southern, her from Fargo what sounds like my aunt, and New York and New England (doubt I could distinguish those last two).

That's really interesting, because, to me, the New York and New England accents are very distinct.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

It's what you're used to!

I'm not the only person I know who needed subtitles for True Blood (that counts as Southern US, right? I know Texas technically isn't, but we got exposed to Dallas in the 80s). Obviously we get lots more exposure to American films and TV than you get British stuff, but even so I find accents that aren't Your Typical American Newsreader tricky and couldn't distinguish any beyond say Texan, Southern, her from Fargo what sounds like my aunt, and New York and New England (doubt I could distinguish those last two).

While every time I hear 'she had a British accent' I'm leaping up and down going 'can't you at least tell Northern English, Southern English, Welsh and Scottish are different, not to mention Estuary, West Country, and Glaswegian?' But I've had enough American friends and colleagues to know most really can't, not until they've been here a few years.

I meant it writing, though. Is a written Southern accent difficult for people not used to it?

Along those lines, would you write a Northern English and a Southern English accent differently? Or would it be more a matter of word choice? I've seen Welsh and Scottish captured in writing, so I know they'd be different.

 

[MelissaBaby]

There's only two types of British accents. The hoity toity Prof. Henry Higgins and the Eliza Doolittle dropping H's like the plague version.

Welsh and Scottish are Celtic accents. Glaswegian accents are Scottish.

Uh, you do know that Prof. Henry Higgins claimed that he could tell where any man in England was born based on his accent, right?

 

[Salacious_Scribe]

Uh, you do know that Prof. Henry Higgins claimed that he could tell where any man in England was born based on his accent, right?

Yes linguists who specialize in accents have trained their ears to hear subtle differences between someone from different parts of a city. It's not the accent, it's the pronouciation, diction, phrasing, the totality of their speech.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Yes linguists who specialize in accents have trained their ears to hear subtle differences between someone from different parts of a city. It's not the accent, it's the pronouciation, diction, phrasing, the totality of their speech.

It's not a field I'm an expert in, but it seems to me that pronunciation, diction and phrasing are the elements that make up an accent.

But then again, I'm not the kind of person who would tell a British person that I knew more than them about Britain.

 

[Emirus]

It's not a field I'm an expert in, but it seems to me that pronunciation, diction and phrasing are the elements that make up an accent.

But then again, I'm not the kind of person who would tell a British person that I knew more than them about Britain.

To quote Jim Steinman, “you took the words right out of my mouth,” Melissa. I can’t see how anyone could deny an accent is made up of pronunciation, diction and phrasing. There are too many “experts” willing to give “their” opinion based on what they’ve seen on tv or in films. If you were to go by that then a non-Americans view of the USA would be there are two things that make up the American way of life which are Americans are either very rich or very poor but the one thing they have in common is they go around killing each other. Which is absolutely untrue.

I say that with conviction because the nearest I’ve got to a shooting was when a police officer very kindly took me along to a gun range and allowed me, who’d never touched a gun in his life, to use three different types of gun and shoot umpteen bullets. Thankfully the only thing I’ve ever killed in my life were those targets.

In nearly 50 years I’ve visited over half of the states in the US. Which I know the vast majority of Americans cannot match. I’ve met Americans (of a mature age) who’ve never left their own state despite Americans being willing to move home sometimes vast distances. The small number of Americans who’ve visited Great Britain (which is made up of three distinct and separate countries - England, Scotland and Wales) is infinitesimal compared with the number of British who’ve visited the USA.

There are less than 5% of Americans who have passports and the majority of them travel for business.

In the same way I’ve heard (some) Americans say they’ve visited the UK when they mean they’ve visited London I’ve also heard (some) British people say they’ve visited America when, in fact, they’ve only been to Vegas or Disneyworld.

There are more regional accents in the UK, small as we are compared with the US, than there are in the whole of America and that knowledge doesn’t come from watching tv or films. I can understand how someone from the UK can’t distinguish New York from LA in the same way as an American being unable to distinguish Manchester from London but Somerset (which is comparable to Alabama) is even further away from Geordie (which is like nothing else you’ve ever heard.)

As an aside, a Bible Belt accent (why do something today you can leave until tomorrow?) which is one of the loveliest accents, in English, I’ve ever heard is so far away from New York (I spit my words out) you wonder why, even in a country as large as America, that’s possible.

There is a distinct difference, Melissa, between New York and Boston but I don’t think many Americans can hear it, let alone any British.

I’m from the north of England and does every American I’ve met in the US believe I speak like Prince Charles? Absolutely. But people in the UK think Trump speaks like Obama.

I take pride in being more accurately able to pin down whereabouts an American comes from than many Americans. The only reason I’ve put that in is to satisfy my ego!

Anyway it’s an interesting discussion. Putting accents into words in a story is 99% impossible and if you don’t get it right you get it horribly wrong. Maybe better to show it’s a different accent by description?

 

[KeithD]

If I can't manage a scattering of ethnic/cultural flavoring, I don't bother trying. I just keep the dialogue simple. I've never yet had a reader complain about the lack of accent or slang. Just make the other elements interesting enough for the reader to focus on.

 

[SisterJezabel]

There's only two types of British accents. The hoity toity Prof. Henry Higgins and the Eliza Doolittle dropping H's like the plague version.

Welsh and Scottish are Celtic accents. Glaswegian accents are Scottish.

It is interesting to listen to audio of QEII from 50+ years ago and note how her accent has changed with age.

My ex was born in Sheffield (in box on side of road cuz they were so poor!) and his father, being in the Navy was posted to Africa, Malta etc so his parents insisted on the children learning the RP by having the Beeb on 24/7. They then came to Aus in the 70s. It worked for the ex- he always pretended and fantasized he was upper class and yet his younger siblings developed a broad Aussie twang very early on! Family gatherings were hilarious- parents both speaking with broad Yorkshire accents, him in his RP and his siblings in their Aussie twang!

 

[PennameWombat]

<snip>

There are less than 5% of Americans who have passports and the majority of them travel for business.

I won't argue about the sentiment that plenty of my fellow native-born Americans never leave the country, many of my relatives are amongst them. But your "5%" is so far wrong I have to comment: The BBC: 42% of Americans have passports.

Sure, that's a lower percentage than the UK or (my current home) of Australia. But it's 137,000,000 or so passports in circulation.

According to Statista, there were around 11.76 million outbound trips from the US to Europe in 2018. That ain't just business travellers.

In the same way I’ve heard (some) Americans say they’ve visited the UK when they mean they’ve visited London I’ve also heard (some) British people say they’ve visited America when, in fact, they’ve only been to Vegas or Disneyworld.

Holy shitballs! Where'd London move to? Did the Queen relocate when they moved the city out of the UK? She live at Balmoral now? I'd have thought the requirement to accept Millwall Football Club along with the rest of London would've put the kibosh on any move. Hope they get better weather now.

Here's the new rule: you cannot claim to have visited the US unless you've stopped in at some point to the Little A'le'in in Rachel, Nevada, on Route 375 (aka, the Extraterrestrial Highway.)

Sorry. Just the way it is.

<snip> Geordie (which is like nothing else you’ve ever heard.) <snip>

If I ever meet Peter F. Hamilton in person I'm going print "pet" out in size 50 font on a piece of paper and shove it down his throat.

 

[davet_1_1]

A lot may depend upon what part of the World is the story ?
My version of slang would not work, in, say, New York or LA.

God knows, we've heard of complaints when the language is real English, complete with in-country references and slang.

Heh. I'm English and everything I've submitted to Lit is set here, but the ubiquity of American English both in general and in the site means I still find it unnatural to write 'arse' over 'ass.' I force myself to do it because I wouldn't say ass in reality.

I'm from the north of England but have lived near London for going on 25 years so I guess I have a reasonable grasp of dialects and such. But unless there's a specific reason for a character to use that kind of language I tend to keep it low key.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Uh, you do know that Prof. Henry Higgins claimed that he could tell where any man in England was born based on his accent, right?

This isn't perfect, and it has some notable omissions, but it might be informative to folk whose knowledge of British accents stops at Dick van Dyke:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8mzWkuOxz8

 

[Rustyoznail]

Heh. I'm English and everything I've submitted to Lit is set here, but the ubiquity of American English both in general and in the site means I still find it unnatural to write 'arse' over 'ass.' I force myself to do it because I wouldn't say ass in reality.

Arse away. We're not a bunch of donkeys...

 

[Kumquatqueen]

It was a lot fewer Americans with passports pre-2001 when you could go to Canada, Mexico and most of the Caribbean with just a driver's license.

I like playing with accents and dialects in my stories - Gas Station Guy has two very different Londoners, for example, and I got many more people saying they like the local colour than the abusive American anons complaining. My current series is set in London but the main characters are a Brummie and a guy from Northern Ireland (the Welsh guy mostly got cut out), with the NI guy being incomprehensible on purpose a fair bit of the time to wind people up. No complaints about it so far (I was expecting political rants for daring to mention the Troubles, but so far so good...)

 

[Emirus]

Heh. I'm English and everything I've submitted to Lit is set here, but the ubiquity of American English both in general and in the site means I still find it unnatural to write 'arse' over 'ass.' I force myself to do it because I wouldn't say ass in reality.

I'm from the north of England but have lived near London for going on 25 years so I guess I have a reasonable grasp of dialects and such. But unless there's a specific reason for a character to use that kind of language I tend to keep it low key.

If I have a story set in the UK the I write “arse” and when it’s set in the USA I’ve used “ass.” Other than that I use “apartment” because that word is being used more in the UK and readers here understand it.

I was going to use the term “Bubba” for a story set in Louisiana but my editor at the time (American - born and raised in a northern state) didn’t know what it referred to so, as it didn’t make any difference, I omitted it from the story.


The definition of Bubba is a name used for someone who is a brother, like a brother or a close friend, or slang for a white, uneducated and assertive man from the southern United States. An example of Bubba is what you might call your best male friend.
https://www.yourdictionary.com › b...
Bubba dictionary definition | Bubba defined - YourDictionary


I also used the phrase “give it a miss” in a story set in England which they didn’t understand.


Definition of give (something) a miss : to choose not to do (something) or go (somewhere) I had so much else to do that I decided to give the party a miss.
https://www.merriam-webster.com › ...
Give (something) A Miss - Merriam-Webster


I don’t expect an American writer to make concessions, unless it’s something that’s integral to the understanding of the story, and vice-versa from a British writer

 

[Emirus]

I won't argue about the sentiment that plenty of my fellow native-born Americans never leave the country, many of my relatives are amongst them. But your "5%" is so far wrong I have to comment:

The BBC: 42% of Americans have passports[/80,226,167 Total number of overseas journeys
39% Of journeys were to Mexico...
17% ...to Canada
17% ...to Europe
https://travel.trade.gov

The article gives the “17% of Americans visiting Europe” not just visiting England and doesn’t differentiate between business and pleasure. So, although I agree my 5% might be out of date, it’s far more accurate than the impression your 45% gives. The majority of pleasure travellers from the USA go to Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean.

You’ve lost me with the Millwall reference. How many Americans, how many travellers,come to England to visit Millwall?

I’ve never heard of Peter Hamilton but your comment did make me laugh.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

"Is that you, Scarlett?"

Definitely not. She is so very not my spirit animal.

 

[Voboy]

I meant it writing, though. Is a written Southern accent difficult for people not used to it?

Along those lines, would you write a Northern English and a Southern English accent differently? Or would it be more a matter of word choice? I've seen Welsh and Scottish captured in writing, so I know they'd be different.

I'd use word choice, or I'd simply mention it. "He was having difficulty machete-ing through the thick verbal jungle of her Cockney accent, but he found he could do it if he paid close attention." Then just write the dialogue.

Versus writing everything in liberally apostrophe'd Cockney, which I'd cordially detest as a reader. I'd probably stop reading.

I can tell a New York from a New England accent readily, and by now I can tell Maine from Rhode Island and even a few of the more specialized Masshole accents. But then, I live up here. Growing up out west, I thought they were all the same.

 

[PennameWombat]

You’ve lost me with the Millwall reference. How many Americans, how many travellers,come to England to visit Millwall?

I was over 30 years old before I had the money and time to finally travel ‘overseas,’ at least with the level of comfort I wanted (I never needed five-stars but also never considered backpacker hostels comfort.) When you have only two weeks vacation, if that much, in a year that’s another limitation. I eventually had an above-average salary and over the two weeks but it took a while. But us Americans who travel ‘abroad’ are something of a special breed.

As to Millwall, it was one key reason why *I* wanted to visit England. I could send you to a pub outside of Seattle which is dedicated to all things Millwall. But it was also included as part of a dig at your comment that visiting London doesn’t count for visiting the UK, why I asked to where had London been moved if it wasn’t in the UK. Why I said you can’t claim you’ve visited the US unless you’ve visited Rachel, Nevada. Both are nonsensical. I have a few American acquaintances who did make it to London but not much afield due to limited time and other countries to visit. Guess they didn’t visit the UK.

I had a ticket for but missed the (in)famous Birmingham City - Millwall 2002 playoff match that Millwall lost 0-1 on a last minute goal. The match wasn’t the news, the riot after was. To quote:

It was described by the BBC as one of the worst cases of civil disorder seen in Britain in recent times.

Various work issues kept me in Germany a couple days longer than planned. I didn’t expect a riot, just attending the match. It being the New Den though, I didn’t not expect some, um, excitement might kick off. Especially against the Brum. Attended a couple other matches at the New Den.

I’ve also been to other garden spots in England, such as Lincolnshire. Attended a cricket match, Lashings World XI vs. Woodhall Spa, at the latter’s home oval.

I also have a story on this site that roughly follows a similar path that I once took around England. Nothing much in that tale is true beyond the circuit, but hey, it was... an odd path.

I’ve never heard of Peter Hamilton but your comment did make me laugh.

You must not be a science fiction reader then. Not meant as a slight, he’s quite well known in the field. Born in Rutland, East Midlands, and apparently still lives in that area. His novel “Great North Road” is set in Newcastle (well, the parts set on Earth are) and is the reason for my comment...

At least discussion of that novel is appropriate in a thread about slang and accents. I’ve no intrinsic dislike of the Geordie accent, I don’t love it as compared to other regional accents, but in that book his use of that one word was so... over the top. It struck me that he plastered it everywhere so we didn’t forget we were in Newcastle.

 

[SimonDoom]

If I can't manage a scattering of ethnic/cultural flavoring, I don't bother trying. I just keep the dialogue simple. I've never yet had a reader complain about the lack of accent or slang. Just make the other elements interesting enough for the reader to focus on.

Agreed. I think so long as you don't have a character using a word or expression that a person of that background wouldn't say, readers won't fault you for not trying to render the words in dialogue so as to represent an accent or dialect. It can work if it's done well and not overdone, but it's not at all necessary.