Silencing the voices

[DEFCOM5]

Aftes being told by 2 beta readers (who have written stories I respect) that my story was unreadable, I have not been able to write anything.
I tried yesterday to avoid grading but I could not write 2 sentences without deleting them. So I have not written a word in 10 days. I have had stories in my head but that is where they are. The reason is that anytime I put something together, I hear the voice laughing at me and telling me "your shit is unreadable."

I am sure I am not the first one to face such a situation. Any suggestions on how I effectively tell the voices to fuck off?

To be clear, this is not author's block. I have plenty of ideas in my head. I just cannot get past the idea that what I write is shit will end up being mocked. I know intellectually that this makes no sense but emotionally, I cannot shut them down.

 

[cw5523729]

Aftes being told by 2 beta readers (who have written stories I respect) that my story was unreadable, I have not been able to write anything.
I tried yesterday to avoid grading but I could not write 2 sentences without deleting them. So I have not written a word in 10 days. I have had stories in my head but that is where they are. The reason is that anytime I put something together, I hear the voice laughing at me and telling me "your shit is unreadable."

I am sure I am not the first one to face such a situation. Any suggestions on how I effectively tell the voices to fuck off?

To be clear, this is not author's block. I have plenty of ideas in my head. I just cannot get past the idea that what I write is shit will end up being mocked. I know intellectually that this makes no sense but emotionally, I cannot shut them down.

Is there a more specific reason they gave beyond "unreadable"?

Like, is it poor grammar/sentence structure?

Boring plot/confusing story?

It just sucks in general?

Something else?

I ask because if you have a good idea, you might be able to work in conjunction with another writer to fix whatever the issue is that is making it "unreadable."

A good plot with good characters but written poorly is (possibly) easily fixable by another skilled author.

A boring plot that no one wants to read is another matter though.

 

[StillStunned]

You haven't become a bad writer all of a sudden, but once you start questioning yourself it's hard to get out of your own head.

So try to write badly. Write a snippet for the latest Writing Exercise: Hamming! It! Up! Lean into the unreadable and have a laugh about it.

Or stop writing, and just read, read, read! Get to the point where you're thinking, "I could do that! I *should* do that!"

 

[MillieDynamite]

I don't know if they are right or wrong, but even if they are right, how dare they say it the way they said it.

 

[iwatchus]

I was one of the readers. I think my most telling comment was that I did not think many readers would finish it as it was. And not finishing the story was unfair to the story, because there were really redeeming parts of the story.

The story had some writing and plot issues, both of which were (and still are) fixable.

I don't think either of us who read for you were mocking you in any way.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Aftes being told by 2 beta readers (who have written stories I respect) that my story was unreadable, I have not been able to write anything.
I tried yesterday to avoid grading but I could not write 2 sentences without deleting them. So I have not written a word in 10 days. I have had stories in my head but that is where they are. The reason is that anytime I put something together, I hear the voice laughing at me and telling me "your shit is unreadable."

I am sure I am not the first one to face such a situation. Any suggestions on how I effectively tell the voices to fuck off?

To be clear, this is not author's block. I have plenty of ideas in my head. I just cannot get past the idea that what I write is shit will end up being mocked. I know intellectually that this makes no sense but emotionally, I cannot shut them down.

The best way to get better at writing is to write. The first draft of everything sucks. Don't worry about publishing, just write. Use tools like Immersive Reader view in Word to review your stories, let them sit and read them again, tweaking them as you go. I've had stories in my WIP folder for over a year before I was happy enough with them to publish. There's nothing wrong with that. You say you have at least two writers you respect. Read, read, and read. Find other writers you like and see if you can figure out what makes their stories work. There's nothing wrong with trying to emulate someone's style, just don't plagiarize their work.
And lastly, go ahead and publish a story. Ask for comments, let the readers know it's your fist story and you want feedback so you can get better. In the end, the whole point of writing is to get the story out of your head, if only for you. The rest is just stuff...

Good luck.

 

[crookedletter]

Ignore any feedback that doesn't resonate or that you don't agree with. Even if it's from someone whose work you respect.

If someone gave you "feedback" that says your work is unreadable, and didn't give you specific things to try to work on, that isn't feedback, it's just a shitty thing to say someone. If they did give you something to try to work on, and you agree with them, then start there, take that advice and do some exercises with it until you feel you can move forward with it.

Also I think a big part of writing -- or of doing anything that requires practice -- is to learn to be okay with not being great at it. At first, at least. It's okay if your first draft sucks, if the first sentence you get down on the page is crap. Write it anyway. Then read it, look at the advice you've been given, and try to figure out how you can write it again, better this time.

Just write. Worry about the critics when it's time to publish it.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

CW has a good point, focus on the specific feedback.
What wasn't working?
Rome wasn't built in a day, so try and address one thing at a time.

 

[NaughteeDragon]

I would suggest starting small. Write a character history. Write a snippet. Grab one of the writing exercises like @StillStunned recommended. Get a feel for getting words back on paper.
Writing longer stories gives you more opportunities to go awry, short pieces are focused and clear.
Pick up a book on writing. Wired for Story by Lisa Cron changed my understanding of tension and was a light, fun read. I’m re-reading Strike and White’s Elements of Style. Dry, but it has some really good points about mastering grammar that we get sloppy about.

 

[StillStunned]

I would suggest starting small. Write a character history. Write a snippet. Grab one of the writing exercises like @StillStunned recommended. Get a feel for getting words back on paper.

For a full list of Writing Exercises to choose from, see this thread: link.

 

[DEFCOM5]

I was one of the readers. I think my most telling comment was that I did not think many readers would finish it as it was. And not finishing the story was unfair to the story, because there were really redeeming parts of the story.

The story had some writing and plot issues, both of which were (and still are) fixable.

I don't think either of us who read for you were mocking you in any way.

@iwatchus. I never intended to say that you and the other beta reader were making fun of me.

It is my own voices making fun of me. I hope I did not offend you.

 

[iwatchus]

@iwatchus. I never intended to say that you and the other beta reader were making fun of me.

It is my own voices making fun of me. I hope I did not offend you.

Thank you for the clarification.

But you own voices have no business making fun of you either. You have work to do until you are the writer you want to be. We all do. You are earlier on your journey than I am and starting as an ESL writer. Don't put yourself down.

I have said this before and I will say it again. With work, your story could be a very good story. It's just not there yet.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

I practiced one rule regarding Beta readers.


I didn't use them.



I wrote my stuff my way.


I made an exception once and agreed with some of the suggestions. The story did OK, but I don't know if it would have been better or worse without the changes.

 

[iwatchus]

I wrote my first 42 stories with no feedback (well some limited feedback from my wife on a few of them). Three of my last four have had beta readers here. Each of those benefited from that feedback and it has made me a better writer. I feel the bulk of value is in the latter, but I also know I ignored a lot of good feedback on each of those stories. It's important that you own your own story; don't make changes you don't like to a story you have written just to please your reader.

 

[Djmac1031]

So we've talked a lot in DM about this so you know my advice already.

And lots of great advice here too. Much of it ive already said.

If you need help editing something, ask. Ive said before the few things ive read from you weren't awful but could vastly be improved with just a little time, care and editing.

I'll help when I can. Im sure others will too if they find the time.

Lastly: you'll need a thicker skin to stay in this game. If someone told you your writing needed improvement, ask them what improvements. Don't just give up. I'm sure that wasn't what they wanted when they gave you their feedback.

 

[TheRedLantern]

It is my own voices making fun of me. I hope I did not offend you.

I understand what you're going through, and we've all had high hopes about a story only to get a different response from the first readers. But you're making it sound like we came after you and tried to discourage you, twice now you've done this. That is NOT how the conversation went. "Unreadable" is a VERY unfair characterization of what either of us wrote. And why not talk to us about it? We know why we said what we said. The feedback we gave was specific, and I know that mine offered thoughts, suggestions, and even resources that I'd used in the past to tackle the things that I was seeing.

If you're struggling with your confidence, that's one thing, but coming into the forums to publicly accuse your beta readers of discouraging you & your work is another. Especially when your beta readers are here and have the receipts.

It took me a few days to get over how you reacted to my feedback. It's kind of a worst case scenario as a beta reader, because it makes me hesitant to call attention to structural problems in peoples' writing out of fear they will react the way you have. Your piece was not short, it took several hours to read, make notes, and then type those notes up in an organized way. That is time I normally reserve for my own writing that I gave to you because you asked and I didn't want you to step in the same puddles I did.

I'm not upset, but I think it would be wiser for you to let the "woe is me" part of this go because iwatchus and I have let you tell only one side of the story for two weeks now.

I hope you figure this out and I hope you stay & continue writing. There are many of us who are happy to help you.

 

[TheRedLantern]

To everyone else in this thread, I'm sorry you're getting dragged into what should have been a very quiet, very normal interaction between writers.

 

[Djmac1031]

To everyone else in this thread, I'm sorry you're getting dragged into what should have been a very quiet, very normal interaction between writers.

Since this has become a public thing; I had a conversation with DEFCOM5 privately after he received the feedback, without naming names.

I kinda felt there was more to it than someone simply telling him his work was "unreadable." Generally people who volunteer their time to proofread are doing it because they want to help, not trash someone.

I've tried to encourage him to simply keep trying, to look at the criticism and learn from it and not to take it personally.

Ive also stressed not to worry about the writing being PERFECT. Better writing comes with time and practice. But if he's having fun and has a story to tell, then tell it. Criticism or not.

@DEFCOM5 I believe @TheRedLantern and @iwatchus when they say they weren't out to get you, just offering honest feedback.

The question now is: can you accept that criticism and learn from it, or continue to use it as an excuse not to write?

Your choice.

 

[DEFCOM5]

I understand what you're going through, and we've all had high hopes about a story only to get a different response from the first readers. But you're making it sound like we came after you and tried to discourage you, twice now you've done this. That is NOT how the conversation went. "Unreadable" is a VERY unfair characterization of what either of us wrote. And why not talk to us about it? We know why we said what we said. The feedback we gave was specific, and I know that mine offered thoughts, suggestions, and even resources that I'd used in the past to tackle the things that I was seeing.

This is not what I was trying to say. I apologize again if you feel like I insulted you. I never meant to. I never used your names because I was not trying to get back at anyone.
You provided me with a feedback that hurt me. You did not me to do that. It was my own reaction. As @Djmac1031 said earlier on this thread, grow a thicker skin.

If you're struggling with your confidence, that's one thing, but coming into the forums to publicly accuse your beta readers of discouraging you & your work is another. Especially when your beta readers are here and have the receipts.

If in anyway I accused you, I apologize again. It was never my intention. I never said that you discouraged me purposely.
It was my only my reaction to the feedback.

It took me a few days to get over how you reacted to my feedback. It's kind of a worst case scenario as a beta reader, because it makes me hesitant to call attention to structural problems in peoples' writing out of fear they will react the way you have. Your piece was not short, it took several hours to read, make notes, and then type those notes up in an organized way. That is time I normally reserve for my own writing that I gave to you because you asked and I didn't want you to step in the same puddles I did.

I'm not upset, but I think it would be wiser for you to let the "woe is me" part of this go because iwatchus and I have let you tell only one side of the story for two weeks now.

I really appreciated the time you and @iwatchus took to try to help. One of the reasons it hurt is that I know that you really spent the time to read and analyze my story.

I am not trying to be woe is me. I am truly struggling. I started this thread because I wanted to drown the voices in my head. I never meant to insult, provoke, mischaracterized and any other bad feeling towards anyone.
Again I am REALLY SORRY.

I don't know what else to say.

 

[DEFCOM5]

To everyone else in this thread, I'm sorry you're getting dragged into what should have been a very quiet, very normal interaction between writers.

I second this message. If I could delete that thread, I would.

I am again VERY SORRY for anyone that felt insulted or worse.

 

[Djmac1031]

I second this message. If I could delete that thread, I would.

I am again VERY SORRY for anyone that felt insulted or worse.

its okay. Learn and grow from it.

 

[DEFCOM5]

@DEFCOM5 I believe @TheRedLantern and @iwatchus when they say they weren't out to get you, just offering honest feedback.

I never meant to imply that they were out there to get me. Quite the opposite. Again I am sorry that it came out that way.

The question now is: can you accept that criticism and learn from it, or continue to use it as an excuse not to write?\

Your choice.

I have accepted the criticism. I not, I would have said fuck it and published the story anyway.

 

[YmaOHyd]

Defcom, you seem like you're really going through it right now, and I feel for you. The answer to your original question, I think, at least to me, is to talk to someone about it. Not in a feedback-on-the-work sense. Talk to a friend, or a loved one. Someone who you trust to offer support and care -- a therapist, even, if you don't want to go to a confidant. But I think that's the avenue to pursue, because this isn't a writing issue necessarily. No one wants to see you hurting.

 

[MillieDynamite]

There's nothing wrong with your writing.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I have some experience with this. I have had my review thread for nearly 6 years now, 3 of those with @Omenainen helping me. Giving feedback that proves useful is extremely difficult. It requires an author willing to listen to someone point out the flaws in creative works they love, it requres that author to trust the giver of the critiques as being genuine in their efforts, and it requires the giver of the feedback to provide appropriate mixes of encouragement and criticism. Those are all very specific and almost need to be tailored from every individual to every other individual.

It is a tough needle to thread if there isn't complete trust from everyone. And, as has been discussed at lengrh, the AH is real big on supporting each other as a rule. That's not a bad thing, it has value, but it also maybe sets someone up for failure if they go into it thinking they're going to get the same treatment.

When I used to do beta reading, I was always very explicit that "You're gonna get a lot of blunt suggestions, and you need to be okay with that. I'm not reading this to give you an early ego fluff, I'm reading this to help you best achieve the goal you're after with this piece of art you made" and still I made some of my friends cry or drove them off. It's unfortunate.

I hope @DEFCOM5 can find some grace for themselves and their work, because everything else gets easier when we can be honest about what we've really written. Unbiased beta readers are usually better and seeing that first.