Should Cannabis be legal in all countries?

[trixiefirecracker]

Contoversial I know...but i really think it should....it makes sense.

Trix xx

 

[markb325]

The main reason it isn't in the US is because the churches still have too much say in the government.

I believed when I smoked it and still do believe that it should be legal.

What is the difference of some one driving under the influence of Alcohol and Driving stoned off your ass?

Neither should be done but people do it any way.

 

[RhumbRunner13]

The main reason it isn't in the US is because the churches still have too much say in the government.

I believed when I smoked it and still do believe that it should be legal.

What is the difference of some one driving under the influence of Alcohol and Driving stoned off your ass?

Neither should be done but people do it any way.

Mark, if the churches had that much say, alcohol would still be illegal. I think the problem arises from those people who believe that writing a law actually changes human behavior. Make a law that makes robbing banks illegal and bank robbery will stop! Yeah, right!

I don't think the question of whether you are stoned or drunk and driving is the way you want to argue the point, I'm for throwing both in jail for a long time if they do harm to another. I do agree with you, and Trix that it should be available under ridgid control and legal.

And I don't the stuff!

Rhumb

 

[solid_]

Contoversial I know...but i really think it should....it makes sense.

Trix xx

No way can you imagine people constantly out there head's on that stuff. Just think of all the accidents it will cause, people operating heavy machinery while stoned, etc.

Plus it's a steping stone to harder drug's.

And I aint even got on to the long term side effect's of it yet.

 

[markb325]

Mark, if the churches had that much say, alcohol would still be illegal. I think the problem arises from those people who believe that writing a law actually changes human behavior. Make a law that makes robbing banks illegal and bank robbery will stop! Yeah, right!

I don't think the question of whether you are stoned or drunk and driving is the way you want to argue the point, I'm for throwing both in jail for a long time if they do harm to another. I do agree with you, and Trix that it should be available under ridgid control and legal.

And I don't the stuff!

Rhumb

That is just one of the arguements I have heard... there are quite a few more out there that have to be beaten down before the government will actually think about it.

One is the fact that when a person is arrested for possession with the intent to resale they fine from $1000 to $10,000 depending on the state which usually goes into the states general fund.

One of the biggest arguements for that is still being ignored by the law makers is the fact that legalizing and taxing would bring in more money than the fines would. Again there are quite a few arguements for but I don't have the time to remember them all and post them out here.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

The main reason it isn't in the US is because the churches still have too much say in the government.

Bullshit! As RR said if the "churches" had that much influence, we would still have alcohol prohibition. If you look at the history of drug prohibition, it started as a way to control Mexicans in Texas and went on from there. Today, illicit drugs are illicit for three reasons:

1) It means a lot of power and money for many pols and bureacrats to keep the "war on drugs" going. It also means about $12 billion a year in property confiscated via civil forfeiture laws - i.e., the government takes property, often from innocent people, without due process or recompense, by declaring it came from drug trafficking - they do this by using "In Rem" laws wherein the property itself is guilty of the crime and not the person, and since property has no rights, it is guilty until proven innocent, and the owners have to prove its innocence to recover the property. Screwed up I know, but it is true - as a person who used to be a law enforcement officer involved in drug interdiction (in the Coast Guard), I know it happens.

2) It means a lot of power and money for the drug traffickers - they are the last people to want any illicit drugs legalized. They work in conjunction with corrupt pols, bureacrats and law enforcement officers to keep the drug laws on the books.

3) Misguided individuals - I could go into detail, but I think you know who I mean; people who think illicit drugs should be illicit, that drug laws work, and that people need to be protected from themselves, all three premises being provably false.

What is the difference of some one driving under the influence of Alcohol and Driving stoned off your ass?

There are significant differences, but that is beside the point.

Neither should be done but people do it any way.

That is and is not a good reason to have a law. Whether people do something regardless of a law doesn't really mean the law is bad; people still murder other people, but we don't say "aww what the heck, they are going to do it any way, just take murder off the books, why bother?" - do we? No. We have laws against murder because murder harms many people and violates their civil rights to life, liberyt and the pursuit of happiness.

With drug laws, we need to get rid of the laws not because people do drugs regardless, but because the laws do more harm than good. We have over half a million people in prison on drug offenses. Over half of them are non-violent offenders. We daily violate people's rights enforcing drug laws by confiscating their property, by bad searches, by bad stops, by bad profiling, and many of the people who do drugs do no direct harm to anybody but themselves, and when violence is involved, it is primarily because drugs are illicit and expensive. Decriminalize/legalize drugs, make them affordable, and we would have much less drug violence.

About 40-50,000 people a year die from illicit drug use and violence, about ten times that many die from tobacco use, about twice as many die from mixed up prescriptions, inadvertant overdoses and reactions between incompatible drugs. We could probably halve the number of people who die from drug violence by decriminalizing drugs (although drug abuse deaths would probably rise, at least temporarily), save a lot of money by eliminating drug law enforcement and stop tromping on people's civil rights. No those are good reasons to legalize decriminalize all drugs, not just pot.

 

[trixiefirecracker]

Legalising it in England woukld mean much more tax to the government....but obviously it would then make is safer through regulations.....and it would cut our Police bills.....we still have to go through all the paperwork rigmarole over here if the police find us with it......

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

One of the biggest arguements for that is still being ignored by the law makers is the fact that legalizing and taxing would bring in more money than the fines would.

Taxing, unless it was substantial, would not bring in very much money - especially when compared to the amount of money that civil forfieture brings in - because most people would find ways to avoid it. Enforcement of taxes would then result in the same mess we have now; we already have people evading taxes on cigarettes, and there has even been violence.

No, there are much better arguments - it is a civil rights issue, and it is an effectiveness issue. Drug laws just don't work, and they cause more harm than good.

 

[iwmggw]

legalize it

Legalising it in England woukld mean much more tax to the government....but obviously it would then make is safer through regulations.....and it would cut our Police bills.....we still have to go through all the paperwork rigmarole over here if the police find us with it......

ppppfffffffffffffffft......oh yeah (cough,cough) I vote yeah man.uh, what were you talkin bout?

 

[wink740]

<-------- I think this says it all.





Hint: look at av.

 

[markb325]

Bullshit! As RR said if the "churches" had that much influence, we would still have alcohol prohibition. If you look at the history of drug prohibition, it started as a way to control Mexicans in Texas and went on from there. Today, illicit drugs are illicit for three reasons:

1) It means a lot of power and money for many pols and bureacrats to keep the "war on drugs" going. It also means about $12 billion a year in property confiscated via civil forfeiture laws - i.e., the government takes property, often from innocent people, without due process or recompense, by declaring it came from drug trafficking - they do this by using "In Rem" laws wherein the property itself is guilty of the crime and not the person, and since property has no rights, it is guilty until proven innocent, and the owners have to prove its innocence to recover the property. Screwed up I know, but it is true - as a person who used to be a law enforcement officer involved in drug interdiction (in the Coast Guard), I know it happens.

2) It means a lot of power and money for the drug traffickers - they are the last people to want any illicit drugs legalized. They work in conjunction with corrupt pols, bureacrats and law enforcement officers to keep the drug laws on the books.

3) Misguided individuals - I could go into detail, but I think you know who I mean; people who think illicit drugs should be illicit, that drug laws work, and that people need to be protected from themselves, all three premises being provably false.

There are significant differences, but that is beside the point.

That is and is not a good reason to have a law. Whether people do something regardless of a law doesn't really mean the law is bad; people still murder other people, but we don't say "aww what the heck, they are going to do it any way, just take murder off the books, why bother?" - do we? No. We have laws against murder because murder harms many people and violates their civil rights to life, liberyt and the pursuit of happiness.

With drug laws, we need to get rid of the laws not because people do drugs regardless, but because the laws do more harm than good. We have over half a million people in prison on drug offenses. Over half of them are non-violent offenders. We daily violate people's rights enforcing drug laws by confiscating their property, by bad searches, by bad stops, by bad profiling, and many of the people who do drugs do no direct harm to anybody but themselves, and when violence is involved, it is primarily because drugs are illicit and expensive. Decriminalize/legalize drugs, make them affordable, and we would have much less drug violence.

About 40-50,00 people a year die from illicit drug use and violence, about ten times that many die from tobacco use, about twice as many die from mixed up prescriptions, inadvertant overdoses and reactions between incompatible drugs. We could probably halve the number of people who die from drug violence by decriminalizing drugs (although drug abuse deaths would probably rise, at least temporarily), save a lot of money by eliminating drug law enforcement and stop tromping on people's civil rights. No those are good reasons to legalize decriminalize all drugs, not just pot.

STG I'm not going to argue the points for or against this. I have heard both sides of the arguement so much that I am actually sick of it.

I stated my opinion and some of the arguements I have heard over the years. The one thing I do know is people die more from drunk driving then they do from cannibas.

The other thing is I don't agree with people smoking cannibas or doing even harder drugs. In fact I did get smart a little over 14 years ago. That is how long I have been clean. Before than I was addicted to coke I had done LSD and smoked pot. Fortunately I learned my lesson before I was arrested or killed one.

Peace dude not offense meant just stating opinion and a little background.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Fortunately I learned my lesson before I was arrested or killed one.

I was an alcoholic myself as a teenager and I used to drive drunk all the time. Fortunately I never harmed or killed anyone while DUI.

Peace dude not offense meant just stating opinion and a little background.

None taken, I was just spouting my usual line on the "drug war" as I used to be one of the people involved.

 

[trixiefirecracker]

Now i've never driven whilst drunk or stoned.

Two years ago i had a rather nasty penchat for extacy and ampehetamines......i find cannabis helps me to deal with the cravings i still feel for this.

 

[RudeNastyAssBitch]

Make Ciggarettes Illegal!

Then Start Packaging The Spliffs In 25 Packs For Sale All Our Local Liquor Stores!

Never Gonna Happen

 

[lisalove]

It's practically legal in Canada. If you have a doctor's note saying you need it for medicinal purposes, you are legally entitled to smoke it...actually the gov't will even grow it and supply to you.

 

[RastaPope]

I've smoked pot longer than I haven't. I've grown it at times. Never sold it, always given it freely to select friends. And I'll continue to do so. Hella better for me to be at home with a buddy, eating cookies, watching a movie, and smoking a few bowls then to go out drinking, get drunk and smash crash into a car.



And I've driven while stoned. Makes me a more cautious driver, honestly.

And hell...the people I know, the job positions they're in....It's ridiculous the shit that would go down if people knew they smoked the chronic(as the children say)

 

[sexyguy2]

Shy Tall Guy has it right. I agree with everything he says with special emphasis on the MONEY. It's also Big Business for the Penal gangs('scuse me, AUTHORITIES LOL). Here in Texas, we've built ONE University and 17 prisons since 1980.

Because of the drug war[sic], Texas now has the highest per capita prison population in the nation.

 

[markb325]

Shy Tall Guy has it right. I agree with everything he says with special emphasis on the MONEY. It's also Big Business for the Penal gangs('scuse me, AUTHORITIES LOL). Here in Texas, we've built ONE University and 17 prisons since 1980.

Because of the drug war[sic], Texas now has the highest per capita prison population in the nation.

I think Dallas PD needs to work on it a bit harder. I go to the market next door to where I live and the dealers are mugging each other to sell me what ever drug they have.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

And I've driven while stoned. Makes me a more cautious driver, honestly.

Ever watch a drunk driver that isn't completely smashed? They drive very carefully too - just before they crash into a parked car. I am all for legalization/decriminalization of drugs, but if you use them and endanger someone by driving while under the influence I am all for locking your ass up for a long time. I had a friend killed by someone driving DUI - right in front of his 6 month pregnant wife.

Also, drug use of any kind turns me off - I won't even date a smoker.

 

[markb325]

Ever watch a drunk driver that isn't completely smashed? They drive very carefully too - just before they crash into a parked car. I am all for legalization/decriminalization of drugs, but if you use them and endanger someone by driving while under the influence I am all for locking your ass up for a long time. I had a friend killed by someone driving DUI - right in front of his 6 month pregnant wife.

Also, drug use of any kind turns me off - I won't even date a smoker.

STG, I can agree with the DUI, I have more than one friend killed by a person driving under the influence or because they were drunk or stoned. One of them was a very close friend from High School.

I totally despise drivers that are DUI and friends that have done so have found out the hard way what I thought of that. Now I do it the simple way. If a friend is going to drink I take the keys away if they are with me.

 

[matl]

Simple answer

YES

 

[Sillyman]

It should be, but it won't until the drug war eases up substantially and stops being a scare tactic for votes, as well as finding something to replace the billion dollar drug-testing industry, figure out how to tax something that any idiot can grow in his backyard, and have Phizer make a synethetic version that costs $40 bucks a bottle and makes pregnant women hemmorage to death.

 

[zantac666]

I'm for making it legal then the gov. would not have to give money to these countries that are getting money from drug sellers there that would save billions.

I smoked for years and had no crave to try anything harder for medical reasons i take narcotics every day i take tylox a class 2 drug a step below lsd you learn a lot from drugests if it was not a pain in the ass i would ask my doc. but it takes so much that it's not worth it.

 

[IA951]

Re: Re: Should Cannabis be legal in all countries?

No way can you imagine people constantly out there head's on that stuff. Just think of all the accidents it will cause, people operating heavy machinery while stoned, etc.

Plus it's a steping stone to harder drug's.

And I aint even got on to the long term side effect's of it yet.

I will totally agree with you that you should not do any of those things under the influence of anything.

I do totally disagree with you on the idea that use of cannabis will lead to the use of harder drugs, the "gateway" concept.
Speaking only for myself, I have used cannabis for a number of years and although I have tried other substances, cannabis is the only thing I have used on a regular basis.
There are any number of others who just like cannabis and are happy to use only it.

 

[trixiefirecracker]

My partner has somked cannabis for over six years now.....and he is totally against any other harder drugs.....he will not touch them.