Should a father have a choice?

[morewickedfun]

So.... let's say an unwanted pregnancy happens. The woman wants an abortion, the father wants the baby. Do you think the father has the right to keep the baby from being aborted?
Doesn’t the father have any rights in this? Shouldn’t his wants and actions be considered in a court of law? His baby,whom he helped create. He has no control over his child’s birth.
Should men have no say in this matter because they don't carry the child?What if (if given the rights) the father forces the mother to go in for abortion even if she doesn't want to?
And the flip side is that, if he didn’t want the child, she could force him to pay and pay for 18 years.
The law is very clear on the matter. A man has no legal right to prevent his partner even if they are married from having an abortion nor may he force her to have an abortion. But what do you think? Should a father have rights?


A woman can legally deprive a man of his right to become a parent or force him to become one against his will.
Armin A. Brott

 

[MechaBlade]

So.... let's say an unwanted pregnancy happens. The woman wants an abortion, the father wants the baby. Do you think the father has the right to keep the baby from being aborted?
Doesn’t the father have any rights in this? Shouldn’t his wants and actions be considered in a court of law? His baby,whom he helped create. He has no control over his child’s birth.
Should men have no say in this matter because they don't carry the child?What if (if given the rights) the father forces the mother to go in for abortion even if she doesn't want to?
And the flip side is that, if he didn’t want the child, she could force him to pay and pay for 18 years.
The law is very clear on the matter. A man has no legal right to prevent his partner even if they are married from having an abortion nor may he force her to have an abortion. But what do you think? Should a father have rights?


A woman can legally deprive a man of his right to become a parent or force him to become one against his will.
Armin A. Brott

No, but if he says he doesn't want the child while there's still time to abort (and signs a legal document to that effect), then he shouldn't have to pay child support.

 

[~Avalon~]

This is one of those situations that always makes me scratch my head.

I'm not sure how you get around it. If the potential mother and father are in complete disagreement, someone isn't getting their way.

 

[Songcatcher]

Anal sex is the answer.

 

[Plasmaball]

No, but if he says he doesn't want the child while there's still time to abort (and signs a legal document to that effect), then he shouldn't have to pay child support.

bingo tit for tat , and please more tits

 

[Never]

I feel bad for the father, but I don't think he should get final say in whether the child is not aborted. And yes, I do think he should have to pay child support, even if he wanted an abortion.

 

[LillyO]

No, but if he says he doesn't want the child while there's still time to abort (and signs a legal document to that effect), then he shouldn't have to pay child support.

Sounds like a sweet deal. For men.

 

[PillowPants]

kay but what if say...
me and avalon are humping away, cos i look so hot in my amway attire
and we make a baby
i really want that baby, it's half mine and i've (hypothetically) got rights to it
but carrying that baby happens to mean a ton of medical problems for avalon, perhaps even death
therefore she wants to abort it and adopt kids instead
then what?

 

[bg23]

i think if the dad doesn't want an abortion, but the mom does, and there are no health/financial/otherwise unavoidable situations, the kid should not be aborted, but instead given into his custody once born.

she doesn't want to keep the kid, he does.

i know this wouldn't work in practice...but it just makes me mad that there are some women who'll abort just coz they got knocked up accidentally and don't want to suffer the inconvenience.

i'm pro-choice...but if it can be avoided, i think it should be.

 

[Songcatcher]

There is no "Kill the doctors" pro-lifers on Lit?

 

[Never]

A woman can legally deprive a man of his right to become a parent or force him to become one against his will.

I think this is the crux of the matter. No man has a 'right' to become a parent, nor, under most circumstances, can you force him to become a father. If he voluntarily deposited sperm into a woman, then he's volunteered for fatherhood.

 

[bg23]

kay but what if say...
me and avalon are humping away, cos i look so hot in my amway attire
and we make a baby
i really want that baby, it's half mine and i've (hypothetically) got rights to it.

serious medical problems override your desire to have the baby

first and foremost, it is her health considerations that take precedence...no court of law will force her to carry the pregnancy to term if her health is endangered.

it's no longer about fathers rights or woman's rights to do with her body as she will, it's about coercing someone to endanger their life.

 

[morewickedfun]

I think this is the crux of the matter. No man has a 'right' to become a parent, nor, under most circumstances, can you force him to become a father. If he voluntarily deposited sperm into a woman, then he's volunteered for fatherhood.

The problem with this is that the woman has a choice.
She can choose whether to carry to term and end her responsibilities via adoption or end the pregnancy via abortion or keep the child.
The father has no say in the matter.

 

[morewickedfun]

Sounds like a sweet deal. For men.

But she can put the baby up for adoption and walk away and not pay a cent in child support.

 

[morewickedfun]

This is one of those situations that always makes me scratch my head.

I'm not sure how you get around it. If the potential mother and father are in complete disagreement, someone isn't getting their way.

Nods
The woman has more rights than the father is where the problem lays.

 

[~Avalon~]

kay but what if say...
me and avalon are humping away, cos i look so hot in my amway attire
and we make a baby
i really want that baby, it's half mine and i've (hypothetically) got rights to it
but carrying that baby happens to mean a ton of medical problems for avalon, perhaps even death
therefore she wants to abort it and adopt kids instead
then what?

so totally uncomfortable with that scenario

 

[Andraste]

no, i don't think a man should be allowed to force a woman to carry his child.
it could be misused as a form of abuse.

however, i don't think a man who was nothing but a fuck should have to pay.
women have tricked men into it before and accidents happen. a woman can give the child up for adoption, but the man has no opt out.

if the man doesn't pay {or at least try to offer whatever support he can} though, he loses all parental rights.
simple as that.

 

[morewickedfun]

No, but if he says he doesn't want the child while there's still time to abort (and signs a legal document to that effect), then he shouldn't have to pay child support.

Men and women may be differently situated with respect to pregnancy, so that women but not men have the right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. But with rights come responsibilities, and a woman who gives birth without the biological father's blessing should not be able to collect child support from him. By failing to terminate her pregnancy in accord with the father's wishes, in other words, she should assume the risk of parenting the child alone.
Financial abortion.

 

[~Avalon~]

Nods
The woman has more rights than the father is where the problem lays.

But, what other solution is there?
Force a woman to abort a child she wants?
Force a woman to carry a child she doesn't want?

It's one of those situations where there is no easy answer. Someone ultimately has their rights violated. There's no grey in this. It's one or the other, and since it's the woman who has to carry that baby, it only makes sense that it is she who makes the decision.

No, but if he says he doesn't want the child while there's still time to abort (and signs a legal document to that effect), then he shouldn't have to pay child support.

I agree with that.

 

[Never]

The problem with this is that the woman has a choice.
She can choose whether to carry to term and end her responsibilities via adoption or end the pregnancy via abortion or keep the child.
The father has no say in the matter.

I wouldn't say that this is a problem.

Now, the situation is inherently unfair, in that there's no way to please everyone or compromise. Either the mother gets to make the decision, the father does, or 'the courts.' Of those three entities, the mother has the biggest stake, so of those three, I'll pick her as the ultimate decision maker.

(Actually, I'd say the child has the biggest stake, but that's off topic)

 

[MechaBlade]

Sounds like a sweet deal. For men.

Sounds fair to me.

i think if the dad doesn't want an abortion, but the mom does, and there are no health/financial/otherwise unavoidable situations, the kid should not be aborted, but instead given into his custody once born.

she doesn't want to keep the kid, he does.

i know this wouldn't work in practice...but it just makes me mad that there are some women who'll abort just coz they got knocked up accidentally and don't want to suffer the inconvenience.

i'm pro-choice...but if it can be avoided, i think it should be.

I think it would suck to make a woman carry a baby to term legally and definitely violates a woman's right over her own body.

 

[Never]

however, i don't think a man who was nothing but a fuck should have to pay.
women have tricked men into it before and accidents happen. a woman can give the child up for adoption, but the man has no opt out.

But how do we know if he was a cheap fuck or not? It's quite possible that the woman has mislead the man, and it's possible the man has mislead the woman.

While I can see using a system of arbitration, not paying child support should not be as easy as signing a piece of paper before the baby is born.

 

[MechaBlade]

Men and women may be differently situated with respect to pregnancy, so that women but not men have the right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. But with rights come responsibilities, and a woman who gives birth without the biological father's blessing should not be able to collect child support from him. By failing to terminate her pregnancy in accord with the father's wishes, in other words, she should assume the risk of parenting the child alone.
Financial abortion.

Exactly.

I wouldn't say that this is a problem.

I would.

 

[Never]

I would.

And yet, it appears we came to similar solutions.

 

[Bluesboy2]

People should fuck responsibly and use birthcontrol. Then this would be a less frequent issue.