Short stories

[MSTarot]

Not ignoring you on what the real problem might be--and you may be right. (and if you are, it would be another example of hanging problems on "character development" here that don't really belong on that Lit-convenient coat rack).

Didn't think you were. You were answering other comments.

Clicking through some of his other stories I see he kind of sorta got a bit better about the narrative issue (in some stories not all) but his story quality didn't improve. Nor did his scores. hum....

He's getting a lot of comments that would look right at home on SamualX's work if that helps.

Consider this more later. Other things to ponder.

 

[lovecraft68]

unless somewhere there is a definitive cut off- I.E. anything under x amount of words is a short story-this is another subjective thread.

My short story is not yours, yours is not someone else....

As for the chapter thing?

I think people assume that every author is going to keep bringing characters back.

Like I've said before I don't consider a "series" that features 6 chapters in which the same characters just keep fucking in different scenarios, a true series.

A series with real chapters features growth of the characters and conflict and well, story, I guess.

I see a lot of this in incest with stories like "Chapter 3 this time mom let's Brian fuck her in the pool. Next chapter, mom gives up her ass to her son"

That's not chapters, that's a series of sex scenes written to keep the fans wanting more.

 

[colddiesel]

Not enough character development.

Ah, but there is. JBJ is using a stereotype which we all recognize - a legitimate and useful technique in a short story.

 

[SecondCircle]

I've always had a different take on chapters and series.

To me, chapters are different sections of one whole story. Meaning the beginning is in one chapter, and the ending all the way in the last. Like a book.

Series, here on lit, is one story that stands alone, that has sequels that involve same or similar characters. They may involve new characters, scenarios, and entirely new settings. Much like a "Pirates of the Caribbean" type deal. The sequels can use or rely on information in the preceding stories, but they aren't, to me, tiny chapters of one story. They are several stories linked by the same themes.

Now I think a short story, for lack of better term, should be short. A full length book of 600 pages takes a while to read... more than one sitting usually, as someone pointed out. I should be able to read your story in one sitting. Tarot was right when he said that it doesn't really matter on your number of pages, but you have to at least make me care about what's going on. And I should receive a beginning, a ensuing plot, and an ending of sorts. In a sitting, possible two if my day is hectic and its a multi-pager.

Either way, I think it would take the opinions of a fellow writer or editor to tell someone if the story needs x amount of character development. I read a story recently here where the POV character wasn't entirely fleshed out, but the story was fucking great because even though it was told through his eyes, he was merely meant as a conduit for the reader to meet the beautiful yet horribly disturbing creature that had spilled over from another dimension. (Hell-Space for ye fans). The focal point was on the creature and the setting and the emotion it built. We didn't get to know this guy (what he liked, what his choice of beer is, what nationality, or his taste in women) but we related to him from humanity's POV. We saw the things he saw and he reacted much like we would.

All within about a Lit page or so. I was hooked and fascinated, and then shuddering.

There IS NO formula for writing a short story. But it must hold our attention. Or else, why read it? Doesn't mean you gotta develope the shit outta characters... but you gotta develope something.

 

[horrorotica]

Short stories do need a certain amount of character development, even if it's not completely spelt out on the page. The problem with erotica or should I say sex stories is that people are looking for the sexual element before they look for anything else, or they look for why does x lead to sex. As a story writer it doesn't take long to realise that stories based around sexual acts are very limiting in terms of plot development and character development. There's more to life than just sex.

So while it's fun to dabble in erotica, after a while its constraints make it less enjoyable to write than regular fiction.

Lastly, don't take to heart criticisms from anonymous people. Even those "registered" are still anonymous. It gets you nowhere.

 

[sr71plt]

Now I think a short story, for lack of better term, should be short.

Luckily the term itself gives us a clue. That there word right before "story."

 

[robertreams]

I think you nailed it. No matter if they fucked. Are they people or caricatures. Those who write porn tend to go OOH OOH OOH fufckMEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! AHHH. Of course we want the stories to make us hard and wet, but that happens best when people who 'feel'real do it!

A person i much admire once said. "Your stories and characters should not be true, but should be true to life."

 

[SecondCircle]

Luckily the term itself gives us a clue. There there word right before "story."

I know, right? This stuff almost writes itself....

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Ah, but there is. JBJ is using a stereotype which we all recognize - a legitimate and useful technique in a short story.

I think in stereotypes. Its my professional training. If you come in the door naked, I assume youre manic. If you come in the door covered in shit I assume youre schizophrenic or epileptic. If you look like a clown I assume youre manic. My head is filled with diagnostic templates or stereotypes. Then I sort further. Are you a depressed psychotic or depressed with some psychosis? Are you drunk and agitated or agitated and drunk?

But it means nothing to the reader if I simply hang a label on a character, cuz they have no idea what borderline personality is (its someone who's annoying to the extreme), that is, theyre an anxiety cake frosted with psychosis. Your typical lawyer.

 

[mikoli5763]

Wtf?

I didn't see my original question getting answers with so many different tangents. The anon comments aren't the ones that concern me. Its the ones from other authors who take the time to comment. I don't write for ratings or comments and have gone back and re-read some of my earlier stories and think I have improved from then to now.
New question: Isn't part of the forum's purpose to give authors the opportunity to ask questions of other authors when those questions arise? Even "Lit. gurus" run into difficulties where they need someone else's opinion or suggestion to solve a problem, right?
I do want to improve and hope that I have since my first submissions. Thanks for all the comments even if I didn't understand some of them!

 

[oggbashan]

...
New question: Isn't part of the forum's purpose to give authors the opportunity to ask questions of other authors when those questions arise? Even "Lit. gurus" run into difficulties where they need someone else's opinion or suggestion to solve a problem, right?
...

Yes, and No.

Many of the questions have been asked and answered many times over.

The Authors' Hangout Library thread was an attempt to categorise all the questions that have been raised before.

This thread has stayed more on track than many do. Once a question has been answered reasonably, threads can go off on wild tangents with no rhyme nor reason. Or turn into flaming matches between antagonistic posters.

 

[horrorotica]

I didn't see my original question getting answers with so many different tangents. The anon comments aren't the ones that concern me. Its the ones from other authors who take the time to comment. I don't write for ratings or comments and have gone back and re-read some of my earlier stories and think I have improved from then to now.
New question: Isn't part of the forum's purpose to give authors the opportunity to ask questions of other authors when those questions arise? Even "Lit. gurus" run into difficulties where they need someone else's opinion or suggestion to solve a problem, right?
I do want to improve and hope that I have since my first submissions. Thanks for all the comments even if I didn't understand some of them!

The hard thing is to find feedback from people who you trust will give give you the kind of advice you need to improve your writing regardless of where you post it/publish it. What is obvious on this site is that authors compete against each other more than help each other. I think authors here will give you general advice if you ask but like the rest of us you have to learn how that advice applies to you and your writing style.

What works for me may not work for you. That's why you sometimes get so many varied answers on a single question. I really suggest you learn not to look upon the authors of this site as your guide because some will lead you up the garden path just for the fun of it.

 

[sr71plt]

I really suggest you learn not to look upon the authors of this site as your guide because some will lead you up the garden path just for the fun of it.

Do you really think so? I haven't seen evidence of this. Have you seen examples of it? I think, rather, that writers on this site will give advice even when they aren't any farther down the path than the one they are giving advice too. I think they do it out of a genuine wish to help, though.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Geometry.

My official aptitude for geometry is 100%. I may have equals but I have no betters.

Yet in high school I struggled to pass my geometry course. A few years later I aced geometry, with a different instructor. My high school geometry teacher had no idea how to teach the material to ME tho he was excellent with all the other students.

Writing is the same. Based on aptitude I oughta kick ass as a writer, I come from many outstanding writers, its in my blood. But some of us are like Seabiscuit. Somethings missing that's needed for all the pieces to work together.

I wrote a story yesterday that's a real story. It may suffer the fate of its antecedents, but its a real story. Now I knew what a real story was, long ago. Ask for a story recipe, and I can recite it every time; but until yesterday something was missing, and the missing stuff isn't part of the orthodox recipe. Missing was a skill for exposing the subterranean currents that make stories matter to readers.

Now I know, and the next story oughta be a modest improvement on what I just submitted, if my theory is correct.

 

[PennLady]

Do you really think so? I haven't seen evidence of this. Have you seen examples of it? I think, rather, that writers on this site will give advice even when they aren't any farther down the path than the one they are giving advice too. I think they do it out of a genuine wish to help, though.

I agree here. I know that I respond to requests for feedback, editing, etc., because I want to help. If I didn't want to help in a positive way, I just wouldn't respond. I've also never encountered another writer intentionally steering me wrong.