Short stories

[mikoli5763]

I asked the question earlier about character development and that led to this question. Most of us (Lit. authors) are writing short stories so why do I keep getting comments about not enough character development? Its a short story! It has a theme, characters, action and reaction between characters, hopefully a conclusion and if no conclusion the tag that it will continue. Why should the traits, habits, backgrounds, or other character development aspects need to be introduced if they have only minimal bearing on the story? I'm trying to learn and get better at writing, but these type comments still confuse me. I know character development is important when writing a book, but that's not what I'm doing here. Newbie so please don't be to harsh!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I asked the question earlier about character development and that led to this question. Most of us (Lit. authors) are writing short stories so why do I keep getting comments about not enough character development? Its a short story! It has a theme, characters, action and reaction between characters, hopefully a conclusion and if no conclusion the tag that it will continue. Why should the traits, habits, backgrounds, or other character development aspects need to be introduced if they have only minimal bearing on the story? I'm trying to learn and get better at writing, but these type comments still confuse me. I know character development is important when writing a book, but that's not what I'm doing here. Newbie so please don't be to harsh!

Readers are idgits.

 

[RejectReality]

It depends largely upon what category you're writing in. If you're writing in Romance, they're more concerned about emotion and what leads to the sex than the sex itself. Loving Wives is a lot like that as well - though I think it's as much for them to find something to hate as to like. Sci-Fi&Fantasy readers lean toward the story over sex side as well.

There's a line somewhere between what readers see as a stroke story that's perfect for a quick orgasm and something deeper. It's possible your work may be floating along that line. The stroke readers back-click to find something that gets to the point in a hurry. The readers who want more story aren't getting enough build-up for their preference, but you're close enough that they keep reading, so they end up being the ones commenting.

Drop a link to your stories in your signature line or a post, and you can probably get someone to look through a couple for you. We're too lazy a lot sometimes to look up via your author name and do it ourselves

 

[sr71plt]

JBJ is on the trail of it--probably a good bit past the turnoff, but on the trail. Folks are just parroting what they think they know about the "requirements" for a short story and don't. At Lit. they take a lot of liberties on how long a short story normally should be, as well. They are in this little bubble here, passing "rules" back and forth that mainly operate in this bubble, certainly not in the mainstream.

A short story should have a dilemma and a resolution (or a purposeful failure to resolve) and should be short enough to read in one sitting. It would be nice if it played a theme too. Although characters are nice to have, you could have a short story without any human (or alien) characters at all (although it would be hard to write erotica without them).

And having more backstory on characters and setting description than you use to serve the story is pretty much irrelevant filler. Zelda doesn't need to drag along her fake leg unless that serves a plot point (or unless you're being paid by the word for the story).

 

[damppanties]

A short story should have a dilemma and a resolution (or a purposeful failure to resolve) and should be short enough to read in one sitting. It would be nice if it played a theme too.

By that definition, "Billy needed someone to have sex with. He found Zelda. They fucked." - would be a short story. But who would want to read that?

Character development doesn't mean you give your characters two pages of back story and whatnot. It means creating engaging characters that are more than a name and gender. It helps readers get involved in the story. Characterization would make readers like, dislike, what to know more about your characters... and that is one of the things that keeps people hooked and the hallmark of a good storyteller.

 

[sr71plt]

I was responding to the OP's:

Why should the traits, habits, backgrounds, or other character development aspects need to be introduced if they have only minimal bearing on the story?

We could, of course, "what if/yes but" this to death--well, you could, if you liked. I have stories to write.

 

[oggbashan]

I was responding to the OP's:

Why should the traits, habits, backgrounds, or other character development aspects need to be introduced if they have only minimal bearing on the story?

We could, of course, "what if/yes but" this to death--well, you could, if you liked. I have stories to write.

I agree with sr71plt.

If they have 'only minimal bearing' on the story, then they are unnecessary in a short story - unless it is a detective fiction short story and you are trying to misdirect the reader.

 

[oggbashan]

By that definition, "Billy needed someone to have sex with. He found Zelda. They fucked." - would be a short story. But who would want to read that?

...

Apparently many Lit readers like stories like that.

 

[MSTarot]

Tried to post here back before lunch and hit the wrong key and my post disappeared. I fucking hate that shit!

Anyway, what I said was that I went and read through your story "Afternoon Delights". I also had a quick look through about four others pulled at random.

To me the problem isn't really your character development its a mixture of a few things. One is category, you're going to have to kill yourself (Or more to the point the woman in your story) to get a good comment there, or a good score for that matter. That's maybe your favorite type of story but it's a tough place to get good feedback.

Two, is narrative blocks. You could have told all that big chunk of info in the dialog between your characters Hunter and Connie.



"Hunter?"

Looking up from the plastic wrapped fish I was trying to decide on I see who called my name.

"Connie? Well, I must say you're looking beautiful as ever." With a flashed grin I give her a wink. It was a bit of a lie, she really look like she's put on weight since I saw her last, but then who hasn't in the last few years.

I see her face sadden.

"I heard about Brittany. I'm sorry I didn't come to the wake."

Even after a year my wife's name hurts to hear. I try not to let it show.

"It's alright. I was so torn up that night, well the only person I noticed that was absent was... Brittany." I see her about to tear up so I smile. "Beside your Mom and Dad showed up. We talked old time and had a good cry together."

Connie nods looking down. I see her trying to find something else to talk about. When she looks back up she fakes a smile.

"Still working as an Electrician?"

"Nope doing building maintenance now. Better pay. How about you? You and... what was his name? William... still doing good? Sorry, I'm being nosy but I don't see your wedding ring."

Her bursting into tears was not the reaction I expected from that question.



That took about a hundred words for me to give almost the same amount of info that you gave in three large blacks of narrative. Yeah I left out that him and his wife rented the place from her parents, that he gave his company the idea for a maintenance division. But you could have placed that info later in the story. Not at the front. That very first few paragraphs need to hook your reader. Dialog can do that better than narrative.

Cause it gives me my focus person. The person I have to look at and go that could be me.

Other writers will tell you a short story needs to be short. It can be short, it can be long, it can be medium. What it needs to be is just long enough for you to tell the story you have to tell.

To make me care.

Make me care about them! In a hundred words or fifty thousand if you don't make me care about Hunter and Connie... why would I care that they were having sex?

Why would I care that Connie is cheating on her husband? Why? That's the character development you need to work on. Not background story.



Looks around with a embarrassed sigh. Picks up my soap box with a shrug.

"Sorry, done ranting."

Walks away kicking a can.

MS Tarot

 

[SamScribble]

I think the problem lies in a mismatch. We, the authors, may be writing short stories; but many of the readers think they are reading long-running multi-part TV shows.

Frequently I have written a short story with a beginning, a middle, and an end – and generally an engaging character or two – and the first bit of feedback will say something like: ‘That was great. I can’t wait for the next chapter.’ Well, Leon (or Linda or Lou-Lou), there is no next chapter. It’s a short story. You want chapters? Then pop down to your local bookshop and buy yourself a 600-page novel.

 

[sr71plt]

I'll Amen that.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I told the story before, of the homeless woman and kids we befriended at Christmas many years ago. She reminds me of McLIT readers.

I had some dealings with the woman after her 10 year old came to school with a classic shiner. The girl said Bubba did it, so the cops and I went to the home to see Bubba. Bubba was her 2 year old brother, and 4 feet tall and a 100 pounds. While we were there Bubba grabbed the sisters leg and snatched her off the sofa with one hand. Two years old!

Anyway, 2 days later mom calls me frantic. Dad was arrested for DUI, lost his job, and she no money, not a dime for rent or food or nuthin. SOS 911.

My boss and the whole management hierarchy went to work to save the family. We found them a better trailer, turned on the utilities, furnished the place, stocked it with food, and my bosses wife bought them Christmas.

Christmas Eve I took the presents to the woman. After we exchanged Seasons Greetings and Wishes, she asked: WHEN THEY GONNA HOOK UP THE CABLE?

I replied: THEY AINT. CABLE ISNT INCLUDED. we had paid her rent for 2 months, and paid for the rest, too.

So she puts her hands on her hips and snarls: AND WHAT IN HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO ALL DAY, WATCH CHANNEL 10?

I replied: I GUESS SO.

And she said: THEN GET YOUR FAT ASS OUTTA MY HOUSE! NOW!

That's your basic LIT reader.

 

[SamScribble]

I told the story before, of the homeless woman and kids we befriended at Christmas many years ago. She reminds me of McLIT readers.

I had some dealings with the woman after her 10 year old came to school with a classic shiner. The girl said Bubba did it, so the cops and I went to the home to see Bubba. Bubba was her 2 year old brother, and 4 feet tall and a 100 pounds. While we were there Bubba grabbed the sisters leg and snatched her off the sofa with one hand. Two years old!

Anyway, 2 days later mom calls me frantic. Dad was arrested for DUI, lost his job, and she no money, not a dime for rent or food or nuthin. SOS 911.

My boss and the whole management hierarchy went to work to save the family. We found them a better trailer, turned on the utilities, furnished the place, stocked it with food, and my bosses wife bought them Christmas.

Christmas Eve I took the presents to the woman. After we exchanged Seasons Greetings and Wishes, she asked: WHEN THEY GONNA HOOK UP THE CABLE?

I replied: THEY AINT. CABLE ISNT INCLUDED. we had paid her rent for 2 months, and paid for the rest, too.

So she puts her hands on her hips and snarls: AND WHAT IN HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO ALL DAY, WATCH CHANNEL 10?

I replied: I GUESS SO.

And she said: THEN GET YOUR FAT ASS OUTTA MY HOUSE! NOW!

That's your basic LIT reader.

Now that's what I call a good short story. Five stars.

 

[sr71plt]

Now that's what I call a good short story. Five stars.

Yes, but I think it fits some writers "asking" for help (and the easy button, knowing that there has to be one) in the feedback forum better than it does Lit. readers.

 

[TxRad]

Now that's what I call a good short story. Five stars.

Not enough character development.

 

[sr71plt]

By that definition, "Billy needed someone to have sex with. He found Zelda. They fucked." - would be a short story. But who would want to read that?

Character development doesn't mean you give your characters two pages of back story and whatnot. It means creating engaging characters that are more than a name and gender. It helps readers get involved in the story. Characterization would make readers like, dislike, what to know more about your characters... and that is one of the things that keeps people hooked and the hallmark of a good storyteller.

Another response to this, is, no, you make the plotline rich enough that some illumination of character also illuminates the plotline and theme--and therefore IS relevant to the story.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Yes, but I think it fits some writers "asking" for help (and the easy button, knowing that there has to be one) in the feedback forum better than it does Lit. readers.

AINT THAT THE TRUTH!

 

[sr71plt]

Not enough character development.

And where's the happy ending? Keep writing it, please, until the woman gets her cable and little chubby Bubba gets marriedhappilyeveryafter.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

And where's the happy ending? Keep writing it, please, until the woman gets her cable and little chubby Bubba gets marriedhappilyeveryafter.

Bubba's gotta be 20 by now. His sister is prolly a LIT poster.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Not enough character development.

Momma had no character or teeth.

 

[MSTarot]

Momma had no character or teeth.

or cable.

 

[RejectReality]

I think the problem lies in a mismatch. We, the authors, may be writing short stories; but many of the readers think they are reading long-running multi-part TV shows.

Frequently I have written a short story with a beginning, a middle, and an end – and generally an engaging character or two – and the first bit of feedback will say something like: ‘That was great. I can’t wait for the next chapter.’ Well, Leon (or Linda or Lou-Lou), there is no next chapter. It’s a short story. You want chapters? Then pop down to your local bookshop and buy yourself a 600-page novel.

That's nowhere near the same animal as what the OP is asking about, though. I get those "next chapter!" comments constantly in this name, because I almost always leave some kind of opening that could lead to a chapter 2, while still ending with ( what I believe is ) a satisfying resolution.

The readers haven't punished me for it. They may want more, but they're not going to go ballistic if you don't.

What the OP is talking about are actual complaints, which may come with low scores and readers not opening the next story they see in your name.

Now that MSTarot has done the homework and found out the stories are in LW, such comments are no surprise. Said complaints are probably something to be taken with a grain of salt the size of the iceberg that sank the Titanic as well

 

[MSTarot]

Here this may help as well....

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=1474043&page=bio

...maybe maybe not but you can see what I meant about narrative blocks being more his problem.

 

[sr71plt]

That's nowhere near the same animal as what the OP is asking about, though. I get those "next chapter!" comments constantly in this name, because I almost always leave some kind of opening that could lead to a chapter 2, while still ending with ( what I believe is ) a satisfying resolution.

Oh, I think it is. The OP is asking why stories are (knee-jerk) being criticized for not having more background and characters traits (often misidentified on Lit. as character development) included than the OP put into stories.

It's possible that, in fact, that's a problem with the stories and the writer isn't delivering the type of story he/she thought was being delivered.

But it's also possible that the OP has a legitimate gripe about that--on the exact lines that SamS has posted. I'd say it's quite possible, because I've seen a legion of comments the OP complains about on stories that didn't need an iota more character "development" than they got--because the commenter wanted an ongoing soap opera, not a short story (Sam's point).

Short stories come in different modes and emphasis. You can emphasize character development, but you can also emphasize plot or setting instead if you so want. On Literotica, I'd hope you'd emphasize sex--but some of the high brows around here lionize not doing that. The "development" of any of those over any of the other elements can be the focus of a legitimate short story.

A lot of Lit. commenters--including some folks on the forum--have latched onto the element of "character development" as being a bit larger god in short story writing than it really needs to be.

 

[sr71plt]

Here this may help as well....

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=1474043&page=bio

...maybe maybe not but you can see what I meant about narrative blocks being more his problem.

Not ignoring you on what the real problem might be--and you may be right. (and if you are, it would be another example of hanging problems on "character development" here that don't really belong on that Lit-convenient coat rack).