Shogun TV Show

[AwkwardlySet]

Last night I finished binge-watching this show after hearing so much praise about it. And I must say that I feel quite underwhelmed. Am I the only one who finds the show mediocre? I mean, the visuals are great and there is an air of authenticity, but... The lack of character depth, especially of the supposed MC Blackthorne; the presentation of Japanese culture as a death cult of a sort...
I can't help but wonder if the significant decrease in the quality of everything coming from Hollywood in the last decade is what made this show stand out so much in the eyes of viewers? Is decent the new amazing? Or am I out of my mind here...

 

[Plathfan]

Going to sample the pilot. Be back soon with some insights.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Going to sample the pilot. Be back soon with some insights.

The start is the better part of the show, I'd say.

 

[Plathfan]

The start is the better part of the show, I'd say.

Looking excellent so far. The fact that you finished ten episodes does make your disappointment somewhat puzzling.

 

[lovecraft68]

I watch very little TV, my wife would binge watche paint drying. I asked her what she thought of this, and she agreed with the OP, visually amazing, but she described it as "empty" like this happens, that happens, yada yada but nothing that really grabbed her.

I recall the original as being very good.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Looking excellent so far. The fact that you finished ten episodes does make your disappointment somewhat puzzling.

Looking forward to hearing your impressions after you finish the show.
For me, the start was promising and I started having expectations but the show failed to deliver. Instead of giving depth to the characters and the exotic world it presented in the first couple of episodes, it just focused on political maneuvering. It all ended up being very bland at the end.

 

[AmandaKellyUK]

I thought it was a good reflection of the book. What is very disappointing is that they have decided to do a second season now which you know will be awful when they could have split the book into two seasons and gone into much more depth!

 

[Yesok1]

I really liked the show.



Also, life isn't always amazing, and it was a small part of the MCs life. It was probably exciting enough for the things that happened to him in that short space of time.



IMO life is sometimes like that. I go through periods where my life is mundane and boring, but others might think it's an exciting adventure.



I also, really, i mean REALLY, liked the female lead in it too. So elegant.

 

[KeithD]

Loved the book; was living in Japan at the time. I've seen the commercials for the TV version, but I haven't found it on the TV--at least yet.

 

[AlwaysDancing]

Unpopular Opinion, I guess.

It was a master class of story telling. There was depth of character. It doesn’t hold your hand but it’s laced with nuance. Loved it.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Unpopular Opinion, I guess.

It was a master class of story telling. There was depth of character. It doesn’t hold your hand but it’s laced with nuance. Loved it.

Actually, yours is the popular opinion
Also, it's remarkable that I strongly disagree with each of your points.

 

[Comshaw]

I saw the original mini-series when it was broadcast in 1980. I enjoyed it tremendously. Richard Chamberlain did a great job as Blackthorn.
I'm not sure if I want to watch the new one because I will inevitably be comparing the two. And in my minds eye Blackthorn IS Chamberlain.

For those interested I also read an article that said many public libraries have the original on DVD for checkout, if you have a DVD player like some of us types that have been around a few years.

Here's a good article discussing the three (book, 1980 & 2024 mini-series)
https://www.tokyoweekender.com/entertainment/movies-tv/shogun-2024-series-review/

Comshaw

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm only half-way through, so I'm going to withhold my final judgment, but I have some thoughts about it.

I read the book in the 1970s, and I found it enthralling. But it's a book of its time. The alien quality of feudal Japan is an important theme, although Clavell, to his credit, also depicts how alien the English seem to the Japanese.

The book, and the first miniseries, tell the story primarily from the English pilot Blackthorne's perspective. The new series wanted to do something different, and I don't blame the show's makers for that. Because of modern media and the greater acceptance today of different cultures, feudal Japan probably doesn't seem as obviously weird to modern audiences as it did in the 1970s. The modern series to a much greater degree emphasizes the point of view and character of the Japanese lord Toranaga, who is an interesting character. This series has more of a Game of Thrones-ish feel, where the power struggles are told through multiple perspectives.

The actor who plays Blackthorne in this series doesn't quite do it for me, so far. I'm not sure why, but that might be the biggest weakness of it. I agree with Comshaw that I've had Richard Chamberlain stamped in my mind as Blackthorne for the last 4 decades so it's tough to let that image go.

 

[Plathfan]

Actually, yours is the popular opinion
Also, it's remarkable that I strongly disagree with each of your points.

Are there any other shows you didn't enjoy? Please share.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Are there any other shows you didn't enjoy? Please share.

That's a good one.
If you dislike fantasy as much as you dislike depth, Rings of Power and The Wheel of Time shows are utter garbage, so there you go

 

[lovecraft68]

That's a good one.
If you dislike fantasy as much as you dislike depth, Rings of Power and The Wheel of Time shows are utter garbage, so there you go

Haunting of Hill House is one of the best horror series I've ever seen. No blood, no gore, one sort of sex scene early on, only a couple of jump scares, but so well times and placed it showed how they used to be used-sparingly- This show made it on tension, atmosphere, incredible writing, dialogue, and dysfunctional family drama, and the house itself was truly made into a character of its own.

Blows most other things off the map.

 

[Plathfan]

That's a good one.
If you dislike fantasy as much as you dislike depth, Rings of Power and The Wheel of Time shows are utter garbage, so there you go

Who said I dislike fantasy or depth? You wouldn't recognize depth if it left a hole in your face.

While I have some gripes about certain choices made by the director and editor, overall, I immensely enjoy it.

You still haven't answered why you spent ten hours binge-watching something you didn't enjoy?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Haunting of Hill House is one of the best horror series I've ever seen. No blood, no gore, one sort of sex scene early on, only a couple of jump scares, but so well times and placed it showed how they used to be used-sparingly- This show made it on tension, atmosphere, incredible writing, dialogue, and dysfunctional family drama, and the house itself was truly made into a character of its own.

Blows most other things off the map.

Yeah, I've seen that one and I loved it.

Who said I dislike fantasy or depth? You wouldn't recognize depth if it left a hole in your face.

While I have some gripes about certain choices made by the director and editor, overall, I immensely enjoy it.

You still haven't answered why you spent ten hours binge-watching something you didn't enjoy?

As I already said, I liked the start of the show, but even when things started deteriorating, I kept watching in the hope that the last few episodes will save it for me. They didn't. To be honest, it's not like I'm spoiled for choice with movies and TV shows these days. This one was the first after a long time that I decided to watch, mostly due to the overwhelming praise it received.

 

[Kitty_so_frisky]

I watched every episode and was also very underwhelmed by the ending. The whole series was slow storytelling and character development, which would have been absolutely fine if it was building to a good ending, but it was not. They foretold what would likely happen next, but left it open for a second season, but the group of friends I was watching with and I were just like ”whyyy?” Most season finales (that are coming back for another season, which Shogun is) end on a cliffhanger or occasionally have a satisfying ending for the characters involved. This had neither and was just kinda…meh.

 

[onehitwanda]

Blue-eye Samura fangirl checking in and chuckling.

@Jackie.Hikaru get in here babe.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

Yah I have to say blue eyed samurai > shogun.

 

[Kitty_so_frisky]

Blue-eye Samura fangirl checking in and chuckling.

@Jackie.Hikaru get in here babe.

Yah I have to say blue eyed samurai > shogun.

You know what, I’m kinda salty with my watch party group about that, because I suggested Blue Eye Samurai at the same time as Shogun, having seen the first 4 episodes of BES and it was sooooo good. We had 2 show slots to fill, or up to 2 hours. The top options were Blue Eye Samurai, The Brothers Sun, Resident Alien and Shogun. Blue Eye Samurai lost out on the second slot by one vote because one guy didn’t want a 2-show 1600s feudal Japanese theme

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

You know what, I’m kinda salty with my watch party group about that, because I suggested Blue Eye Samurai at the same time as Shogun, having seen the first 4 episodes of BES and it was sooooo good. We had 2 show slots to fill, or up to 2 hours. The top options were Blue Eye Samurai, The Brothers Sun, Resident Alien and Shogun. Blue Eye Samurai lost out on the second slot by one vote because one guy didn’t want a 2-show 1600s feudal Japanese theme

Ooh definitely continue watching BES, you stopped right before it gets good!

 

[Euphony]

I can't help but wonder if the significant decrease in the quality of everything coming from Hollywood in the last decade is what made this show stand out so much in the eyes of viewers? Is decent the new amazing? Or am I out of my mind here...

You are out of your mind... but not here.

More(?) media outlets, at least more requiring tentpole type tv shows to build a subscriber base in the era of a la cart.

And there's only so much writing talent to be found.

Add in attrition of plenty of talented folk who left b/c they couldn't make living wage (LA's expensive and going to work everyday to parking lots of Ferraris and Maseratis while being told more "cuts" need to be made at your expense (see the Writer's Strike history and how they got absolutely shafted by the shift to streaming and some new accounting fuckery)

Story is vital to most quality shows but studios don't want to splash out any more than (to them) is absolutely necessary.

The bet was, set pieces, marketing, sequels and familiarity, and reconditioning the audience's expectations could circumvent our natural inclination toward craving story.

It's succeed and failed in varying degrees but everyone buying into the idea that the marketplace can support a bespoke streaming service for every studio/distributor under the sun is evaporating as a lot of streamers are circling the drain.

Your mid level shows making oodles of cash (think Home Improvement, King of Queens, TGIFs, etc.) aren't much of a thing anymore and aren't driving subscriptions enough to warrant everybody having their own streaming service but still thriving.

 

[intim8]

Is decent the new amazing?

Yes. Plus, much of the praise you've seen is astroturf.