Sheep

[Gilly Bean]

It really bothers me how so many people out there are willing to believe every bad thing they hear about government.


You work in it?

You deal with it?

No?

Then I highly doubt you are educated enough to know the first thing about what they are allegedly going to do to us all.

 

[Laurel]

Historically, very very bad things have happened to those who put blind trust in authority of any kind.

In the US, we ARE the government. If we as citizens are not skeptical and aware of what is happening in our governing bodies, then we are not doing our job as Americans.

What I personally find odd is how no one trusts politicians, yet they trust government. Irony there....

Just my $0.02.

 

[modest mouse]

GB....

If I were you, I would hesitate to make too many assumptions.

Especially about the lives or education of other people.

 

[lobito]

and it's usually the ones who are spoutng off about other people being uneducated, that are the ones that you have to watch out for. They are most often the ones who don't think that we should have all the rights that we have, though even those that we have are dwindling, because of the "do gooders".

 

[Gilly Bean]

Historically, very very bad things have happened to those who put blind trust in authority of any kind.

In the US, we ARE the government. If we as citizens are not skeptical and aware of what is happening in our governing bodies, then we are not doing our job as Americans.

What I personally find odd is how no one trusts politicians, yet they trust government. Irony there....

Just my $0.02.

I don't place blind trust in it. However, I don't go looking for a conspiracy in every stance they take.

I don't give a flying fuck about politicians one way or another, either. Hell, I could care less if the president is fucking his press secretary, or the maid from downstairs. Not my buisness, nor is his sex life anyone elses.

How, for example, does Bill Clinton sex life effect how he acted as president? It didn't, yet hundreds of thousands of people were calling it a reason to impeach.

The government has information on every citizen born. Do you people honestly think that us having an ID card changes that?

Let's think:

Work History: Wow, you file taxes, they have it.

Medical History: Hmm, you ever checked into a hospital, they can get it. Or a doctors office for that matter.

Social Security Number: We register it WITH them, therefore, they have it.

Blood Type: Same as with hospital and doctors office.

Donor info: That's on most liscences as is, or at least in MI it is.

Address: You ever receive mail? Work? File taxes? get junk mail? Then they have it. Not to mention national census.

Driving record: You ever applied for a liscence? Gotten a car? Insurance? It's all there, for anyone.

Financhial record: It's called a credit report, and for the bargain price of $14.95, anyone can get it. I am sure the government has a special rate they get.

So, let's review. They have the information, plus a whole lot more that I highly doubt anyone is thinking of yet. Like that time when your cat peed on the neighboor. Ok, maybe not that specific. But, they likely do know about pets, if they have been registered with the county you live in. It's not a privacy issue when they already have the information. The only thing it enables, is that they don't have to wait 20 minutes while typing in all the information seperatly. It's available at the fingertips.

They are not setting us up to take over our minds. They are not planing to insert mind control chips in your head. They are not even going to hypnotize us into thinking George W Bush is a woman.


It's not so much blind faith as common sense on most the issues at hand.

 

[modest mouse]

GB...

I do not think that anyone has called into question the logistics of an ID card(or that anyone really cares). The debate is about the potential(guarenteed) for abuse and the surrender of freedoms that so many(apparently) are willing to embark on.

The "I got nothing to hide" argument is wholly without merit.

 

[miles]

What?

Who are you talking to, and what are you talking about?

How, for example, does Bill Clinton sex life effect how he acted as president? It didn't, yet hundreds of thousands of people were calling it a reason to impeach

Do you know what perjury is, and that he admitted he lied under oath?

Then I highly doubt you are educated enough to know the first thing about what they are allegedly going to do to us all.

I'll let that statement stand on its own merits.

 

[lobito]

I don't give a flying fuck about politicians one way or another, either.....

Financhial record: It's called a credit report, and for the bargain price of $14.95, anyone can get it. I am sure the government has a special rate they get.

It's not so much blind faith as common sense on most the issues at hand.

What the hell are you on today that you insist that YOU are right about everything, and everybody else is just plain fucked up?

YOU SHOULD care about the politicians, and what they do! WE elect them, no matter whether it's the right choice or not, WE put them in office, WE should care what they do. NO I don't care if the Prez is fucking or sucking, more power to them, in fact. BUT when they do something that can affect us as a nation, then it IS our concern.

Credit reports, too bad you can't even spell financial right by the way, it's every persons right to know what their credit report says, they shouldn't have to pay a fucking PENNY, much less $14.95 to see it. Credit card compainies fuck up your credit even more than you can, just by inquiring, so they can send you an application, or a card. YES, it fucks up your credit, by them even looking so often.

THINK before you go off on every SMART person in the U.S. or even the world!

 

[Gilly Bean]

GB...

I do not think that anyone has called into question the logistics of an ID card(or that anyone really cares). The debate is about the potential(guarenteed) for abuse and the surrender of freedoms that so many(apparently) are willing to embark on.

The "I got nothing to hide" argument is wholly without merit.

Ok, from my stand point, the card is information the EXACT same people already have. Hell, I would not be at all suprised were we to recieve one without applying, because they DO have the information.

I mean, why have a bunch of paranoid people fill out an application for one when all they have to do is look up your SS number for one? My guess is that it will come in the mail, and then you have one.

Everyone is arguing over the use of it yes. But is there anything to merit the discussion of it's invasion of privacy? The same people have the same information that have it now.

We are not handing out the info to the people at Mc Donalds. Telemarketers don't have it. No one new has it.

 

[Calamity Jane]

How, for example, does Bill Clinton sex life effect how he acted as president? It didn't, yet hundreds of thousands of people were calling it a reason to impeach.

Billy was being impeached for perjury, not sex. I would've fucked him. That's not the issue. The issue is, he lied on the stand.

It's not so much blind faith as common sense on most the issues at hand.


I've talked to Jews who were at Auschwitz when it was taken. Know what? They didn't think that wearing armbands that designated them as Jews was a big deal. They thought it would help protect them. Giving privacy in the name of safety, is just plain stupid.

And yeah, I have worked for the government. I am good friends with people who work for the government, one of them a 3 star general. They don't blindly trust the government either.

 

[Gilly Bean]

Ok, when exactly did the US government become Hitler?

To the perjury? Why excatly was he on the stand in the first place?

Was it our buisness to put him there? No, it wasn't.



"What the hell are you on today that you insist that YOU are right about everything, and everybody else is just plain fucked up? "

I am not insisting I am right, I am just trying to show my perspective on the matter.

Since I am still in the USA, that is my right, just as it is yours to say as you please.

I don't say what I do with any thought that I am 100% correct. I give my OPINION on matters, and tell it how it looks to me.

If I said that Lobito was a moron, that would be an opinion. I don't think anyone here is stupid. I never said I did.

What I said was that I felt no one here who didn't work IN the government was educated enough to make that sort of a claim on what they will'do' to us.

What that means, is that I don't work for the government. I don't sit in the office with them, and hear first hand whats going on. I am not the proverbial fly on the wall. Neither are any of you.

All of what we speculate is just that, speculation. You can think one way, and leave me to think the way I do. Sure, some call it blind faith, but you know what? I just look at the facts. I don't take into account rumors. I don't look at history, because I believe firmly that people learn from it. When the Nazi's land, and when Hitler comes back, and things are actually happening on the streets, and not in our imaginations, then I will worry.

In the mean time, why give myself an ulcer simply because one person said that this person did that, and then that other person was going to get this, because that first person wanted to steal the 4th persons information?

When, and IF, it is passed, worry about it. Since it has been pointed out that we can vote, then do it if you don't like it. Sitting on threads bitching about speculation gets no one anywhere, does it?


Yeah, I realize lately I have been overly mouthy with my opinions, but we are all entitled to them, are we not? Right now, I am overly sick of being pregnant, I have had a bad head cold, been trying to pack, been trying to keep two kids quieter then a russian missle flying past, and my stress level is being taken out here.

Right now, I don't care if I am stepping on toes by having an opinion. You all shout your opinions on the board. Everyone gets uptight if thier opinion isn't automatically shot to the top and being given the Nobel Peace prize for what ever reason.

Everyone here has argued with other people for one reason or another.

Guess its my turn, huh?


And for the record, I DO give fair warning when I am in a bitchy mood. Look at the AV. If it says Gilly Bitch, there is a reason.

 

[Purple Haze]

We ARE the government.

I can deal with it.

 

[lobito]

Gilly, I never said you can't have your own opinion, I wouldn't do that, however, it is in the way you say some things, that may upset people, myself included. Hell, I'm not perfect, not even close.

Think about this, or don't it's YOUR right, ok? I happen to be of dual citizenship, because I was born to a man from Guatemala, and a woman from the U.S. Though I have lived in Guatemala, and call it my homeland, I have spent most of my years, including ALL of my years since I was 17 in the U.S. thus I call the U.S. my homeland as well.

I, in effect have two Governments to worry about, because it affects my families in each country. While I do vote in the U.S., I tend to care about what the hell goes on here. I DON'T vote in Guatemala, but that doesn't mean I don't still care about what goes on there. Is the U.S. Government corrupt? Quite possibly so, which Government isn't? But WE as citizens of the U.S. enjoy many more freedoms than my Father, or my step-Brothers and Sisters, Aunts, Uncles, or even my Grandparents back in Guatemala do.

I have a national card for Guatemala, and I wouldn't care if I had to have one here in the U.S. If they made it law, then I would abide by it.

An Av is not a way to tell people, Watch out, I'm not in a good mood today. TELLING someone at the outset of a post is.

 

[Thumper]

Blow me

Do you know what perjury is, and that he admitted he lied under oath?

And just how many millions of dollars and how many years did the Republicans spend to finally catch the Rat Bastard in a lie about getting a BJ from a star struck intern?

Great investment....You would think maybe they could have spent their efforts actually trying to accomplish something.

 

[lobito]

Thumper, what man wouldn't want a $40,000,000 blow job?

 

[Thumper]

Damn...

*dumping out his change jar*

 

[Calamity Jane]

Ok, when exactly did the US government become Hitler?

And for the record, I DO give fair warning when I am in a bitchy mood. Look at the AV. If it says Gilly Bitch, there is a reason.

Hitler didn't personally commit those atrocities. That's the point. There was a governmental push behind it in the beginning. And everyone thought "well, it doesn't really affect ME" and did nothing. Eventually, it's too late to do nothing.

And yeah, people are supposed to learn from history. That's why some of us can speak intelligently and compare what happened last week with what happened 200 years ago. Because history was our teacher and we respect the knowledge to be gained from studying it.

Thumper -- totally agree that the whole Clinton thing was a big ol waste of my money. But the point stands. He lied in court, hence the impeachment. And who cares anyway, it's all History, and that's not important

 

[modest mouse]

They first came for the Communists and I didnt speak up - because i was not a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews and I didnt speak up - because I wasnt a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I didnt speak up - because I wasnt a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics and i didnt speak up - because i was a Protestant.

Then they came for me - and by that time no one was left to speak up.


-Pastor Martin Niemoeller

 

[Calamity Jane]

Thanks MM... I have that on a Tshirt. Only I couldn't remember it verbatim and couldn't find the T. And you needed to know all that, right?

Thanks for posting it.