Sheehan calls for troop pull out in occupied New Orleans.

[Wildcard Ky]

One thing that truly troubled me about my visit to Louisiana was the level of the military presence there. I imagined before that if the military had to be used in a CONUS (Continental US) operations that they would be there to help the citizens: Clothe them, feed them, shelter them, and protect them. But what I saw was a city that is occupied. I saw soldiers walking around in patrols of 7 with their weapons slung on their backs. I wanted to ask one of them what it would take for one of them to shoot me. Sand bags were removed from private property to make machine gun nests.

Funny how she doesn't mention all of the rescues done by the military. Nor does she mention that the military are the ones that actually got supplies into the victims of the storm. Things didn't start happening until Honore showed up and started running the show. If it weren't for the military troops, things would have been much worse than they already are. It's for damn sure no one else was getting anything done.

Between her profanity filled on camera rants screaming that she'll never pay taxes again, and now onto this, the woman has blown any credibility that she had started to create.

And of course, who chooses to post these comments of hers as being worthy of complete agreement? Michael Moore. When you lie with dogs, you wake up with fleas.

Sheehan on Moores site

 

[Guest]

One thing that truly troubled me about my visit to Louisiana was the level of the military presence there. I imagined before that if the military had to be used in a CONUS (Continental US) operations that they would be there to help the citizens: Clothe them, feed them, shelter them, and protect them. But what I saw was a city that is occupied. I saw soldiers walking around in patrols of 7 with their weapons slung on their backs. I wanted to ask one of them what it would take for one of them to shoot me. Sand bags were removed from private property to make machine gun nests.

Funny how she doesn't mention all of the rescues done by the military. Nor does she mention that the military are the ones that actually got supplies into the victims of the storm. Things didn't start happening until Honore showed up and started running the show. If it weren't for the military troops, things would have been much worse than they already are. It's for damn sure no one else was getting anything done.

Between her profanity filled on camera rants screaming that she'll never pay taxes again, and now onto this, the woman has blown any credibility that she had started to create.

And of course, who chooses to post these comments of hers as being worthy of complete agreement? Michael Moore. When you lie with dogs, you wake up with fleas.

Sheehan on Moores site

The woman lost her son. And her initial act of waiting to see the vacationing president, though emotional, was quiet and un-press worthy. She didn't claim to speak for all military families, just for herself as she openly grieved.

Then she was inundated with pro and anti forces and loads of publicity. She didn't enlist the aid of those forces, of course. They showed up to take advantage of an opportunity.

Great human interest story. At least until Katrina, it was even leading the news for a time.

And now? Now she's been vilified on FOX News, raised to near martyr status elsewhere, and both sides are using her as a tool to bash each other.

But at the heart of it all, she's still a grieving mom.



(Edited to add)

She doesn't have to laud the military. They get enough positive spin, and I imagine her views on the military may have changed a bit.

It is a shame about the experience she had in Louisiana. It's also telling that for her, the military presence seemed to be in the role of aggressor rather than rescuer. But it is her opinion, and she's entitled to speak it. Others certainly speak their views. And loudly. And on many websites.

 

[Celtic Princess]

She asked for a favor from our highest elected public official- one that would never be granted, regardless of the loss she suffered.


I know several people who lost loved ones during our Iraq involvment. Not one of them demanded to personally speak to the president. None of them felt the need to martyr themselves. Which is what she did. She was unable to accept her loss and looked for someone to blame.


Now, from what I've read, all military occupation everywhere is bad in her opinion. Any display of force is bad.


She's not going to pay taxes? Fine, she can move to another country. *shrug* I promise I won't miss her or her statements.

 

[9307]

As someone who grew up in New Orleans and now live only 50 miles from there
The people who remained in N.O. were very lucky to have the Military there.They were not only there,but all over the Miss. Gulf Coast.Every one I ran across was not only very courteous but took care to see that people had what they needed.This is not to take away from all volunteers who were in our area,especially Power Crews from all over the Country and Tree cutters.

Not to mention the people who came from all over to provide food,water,and anything people needed. Two New Orleans Police Officers commited suicide over this catastrophe and many just quit and walked away.I can only say Thank God for the Military presence or there would have been much more looting,rapes,etc.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

She asked for a favor from our highest elected public official- one that would never be granted, regardless of the loss she suffered.

She didn't ask for anything. She showed up and DEMANDED a meeting. Big difference there.

The woman lost her son. And her initial act of waiting to see the vacationing president, though emotional, was quiet and un-press worthy. She didn't enlist the aid of those forces, of course. They showed up to take advantage of an opportunity.

???? She showed in a bus full of people, and the bus had "impeachment tour" emblazened on the side of it. How did all of those people wind up in her bus if she didn't enlist their aid? It wasn't a quiet act. She wanted the world to see her and hear her point of view. She got what she wanted. The world watched and was interested. Then she lost control of herself. She started the profanity filled interviews, ranted about taxes, ranted about Israel, got in cahoots with Moore, and it was all downhill from there.

I do agree that she's been used by both sides, but she invited part of it on herself. She got in over her head, is still in over head, and doesn't realize it.

 

[BlackShanglan]

But at the heart of it all, she's still a grieving mom.

I think this is the thing to remember. Yes, she is in over her head, and she's in that position at a time when she can't possibly be expected to be at her most rational and intellectually detached. It's unfortunate that some of what she's said is unflattering to her, but it's the decent thing simply to look the other way and remember that she's not herself. She's suffered a terrible blow, and like people who get into horrible, bitter, destructive quarrels with their relatives at funerals and in their aftermath, she needs others to swallow their anger at what she's saying and remember, as steadfastly as they can, the pain that's spurring her. She may indeed go out looking for trouble; it's still no more decent for the left to set her up as a spokeswoman and throw her at the cameras to her own detriment than for the right to eviscerate her arguments as if they constituted a serious policy of the left. The best I think any of us can do is to quietly step away.

Shanglan

 

[Colleen Thomas]

One thing that truly troubled me about my visit to Louisiana was the level of the military presence there. I imagined before that if the military had to be used in a CONUS (Continental US) operations that they would be there to help the citizens: Clothe them, feed them, shelter them, and protect them. But what I saw was a city that is occupied. I saw soldiers walking around in patrols of 7 with their weapons slung on their backs. I wanted to ask one of them what it would take for one of them to shoot me. Sand bags were removed from private property to make machine gun nests.

Funny how she doesn't mention all of the rescues done by the military. Nor does she mention that the military are the ones that actually got supplies into the victims of the storm. Things didn't start happening until Honore showed up and started running the show. If it weren't for the military troops, things would have been much worse than they already are. It's for damn sure no one else was getting anything done.

Between her profanity filled on camera rants screaming that she'll never pay taxes again, and now onto this, the woman has blown any credibility that she had started to create.

And of course, who chooses to post these comments of hers as being worthy of complete agreement? Michael Moore. When you lie with dogs, you wake up with fleas.

Sheehan on Moores site

Now now Wildcard.

This woman obviously prefers to have snipers shooting at hospital evacuees and roving gangs of armed looters and rapists.

 

[Guest]

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I've always thought it was a shame that Moore's gut-level hatred of Bush destroyed the credibility of the issues he raised in Fahrenheit 9/11 and turned the movie into an easily-dismissed personal vendetta.

A little more rational detachment and less shreiking might have resulted in his charges being taken more seriously.

As for Cindy Sheehan, it's as Shango says. She has no qualifications to lead a movement, no experience and no credibility, only her grief. It's too bad we don't have a McGovern of McCarthy who can raise some informed dissent about an anti-terrorism policy that's so proficient at producing more terrorists.

 

[minsue]

I think this is the thing to remember. Yes, she is in over her head, and she's in that position at a time when she can't possibly be expected to be at her most rational and intellectually detached. It's unfortunate that some of what she's said is unflattering to her, but it's the decent thing simply to look the other way and remember that she's not herself. She's suffered a terrible blow, and like people who get into horrible, bitter, destructive quarrels with their relatives at funerals and in their aftermath, she needs others to swallow their anger at what she's saying and remember, as steadfastly as they can, the pain that's spurring her. She may indeed go out looking for trouble; it's still no more decent for the left to set her up as a spokeswoman and throw her at the cameras to her own detriment than for the right to eviscerate her arguments as if they constituted a serious policy of the left. The best I think any of us can do is to quietly step away.

Shanglan

Hear hear

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I think this is the thing to remember. Yes, she is in over her head, and she's in that position at a time when she can't possibly be expected to be at her most rational and intellectually detached. It's unfortunate that some of what she's said is unflattering to her, but it's the decent thing simply to look the other way and remember that she's not herself. She's suffered a terrible blow, and like people who get into horrible, bitter, destructive quarrels with their relatives at funerals and in their aftermath, she needs others to swallow their anger at what she's saying and remember, as steadfastly as they can, the pain that's spurring her. She may indeed go out looking for trouble; it's still no more decent for the left to set her up as a spokeswoman and throw her at the cameras to her own detriment than for the right to eviscerate her arguments as if they constituted a serious policy of the left. The best I think any of us can do is to quietly step away.

Shanglan

I didn' opine on the woman when she was standing outside his ranch. I wouldn't if she was standing outside the white house.

But when you criticze soldiers for being armed in what was, until very recently the equivilent of a hot LZ you have gone completely off the dep end.

The morons with rifles didn't stop sniping until the 82nd airborne put a few of them in the ground. If they will shoot at helicopters, it's beyond rediculous to assume they wouldn't shoot at unarmed military personelle. They damned sure quit when the guys in green camo started shooting back.

You can excuse a lot from someone who is hurting, but that kind of statement deserves scorn no matter who makes it or why. I guarentee if her son had been sent in there with no weapon and some thug had shot him she would have been howling about how stupid it was to send them in unarmed. It seems stange a woman grieving over her own son's death would advocate putting other women's children at unneccesary risk, does it not?

 

[R. Richard]

I agree completely with Colly's viewpoint.

I would also like to point out that Ms. Sheehan's campaign is NOT one woman's campaign. She is at the point of a well financed, ochestrated attack on President Bush. If the campaign were a rational one, so be it. However, the campaign has descended into the muck of screaming insane suggestions that, if followed, would result in the deaths of soldiers, rioters and innocent bystanders.

The General who ran the military campaign refused to put soldiers on the streets until he had cohesive, well organized units who could quickly end mob resistance. The result was that the soldiers quickly snuffed out the rioting and looting, with no damage to the soldiers or to innocent bystanders; what happened to the rioters is no concern of mine.

 

[timmywells]

I don't know if this was mentioned, but Cindy Sheehan did meet with Bush in 2004 and was delighted with his concern. A second meeting, given the animosity shown and the people she is being currently used by is unlikely. She is a grieving mother but there are lot of grieving mothers, unfortunately.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I didn' opine on the woman when she was standing outside his ranch. I wouldn't if she was standing outside the white house.

But when you criticze soldiers for being armed in what was, until very recently the equivilent of a hot LZ you have gone completely off the dep end.

The morons with rifles didn't stop sniping until the 82nd airborne put a few of them in the ground. If they will shoot at helicopters, it's beyond rediculous to assume they wouldn't shoot at unarmed military personelle. They damned sure quit when the guys in green camo started shooting back.

You can excuse a lot from someone who is hurting, but that kind of statement deserves scorn no matter who makes it or why. I guarentee if her son had been sent in there with no weapon and some thug had shot him she would have been howling about how stupid it was to send them in unarmed. It seems stange a woman grieving over her own son's death would advocate putting other women's children at unneccesary risk, does it not?

I agree entirely that her statements are irrational. In fact, before I realized who she was, I forwarded one excerpt to the SO as one of the most foolish things anyone had said about the situation. It is indeed ridiculous to suggest that snipers and armed gangs intent on rape and looting be confronted by unarmed soldiers. As you observe, it's utter lunacy to suggest such a thing.

But this, I think, is my point as well. She's not rational. She's deeply irrational and lashing out at everything around her in her grief and anger. I don't think that her comments should be defended; I think that they should be quietly set aside as a painful symptom of her current condition.

To offer a comparison, one might, when working in a nursing home, encounter a resident who from time to time leaves her room incompletely clothed. The decent thing to do, then, is to fetch a wrap while averting one's gaze and to then cloth her and guide her back to her room. It may be that she has a more angry expression of dementia, and struggles and forces her way repeatedly out into public in an embarassing condition. One attempts as well as one can to cope with her and to avoid drawing more attention than necessary to a condition over which she has limited control. Of course one would not use her behavior to argue that public nudity laws should be relaxed - not if one was scrupulous and sensitive to her condition. But one would also not attack her choice of actions as if they were carefully considered and summon the police to prosecute her under those laws. She's not herself. Her actions do not represent a "position" of a political or social nature. They represent a mind unable to come to rest with itself.

That was the impulse behind my post. I don't think Ms. Sheehan correct. However, I also think that to attack her statements as if they were serious arguments requiring an answer gives them both more weight and less forbearance than they deserve. Of course they are irrational. She's not in a rational state. It is the kinder thing to recognize this and to let her statements sink quietly and unremarked.

Shanglan

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I agree entirely that her statements are irrational. In fact, before I realized who she was, I forwarded one excerpt to the SO as one of the most foolish things anyone had said about the situation. It is indeed ridiculous to suggest that snipers and armed gangs intent on rape and looting be confronted by unarmed soldiers. As you observe, it's utter lunacy to suggest such a thing.

But this, I think, is my point as well. She's not rational. She's deeply irrational and lashing out at everything around her in her grief and anger. I don't think that her comments should be defended; I think that they should be quietly set aside as a painful symptom of her current condition.

To offer a comparison, one might, when working in a nursing home, encounter a resident who from time to time leaves her room incompletely clothed. The decent thing to do, then, is to fetch a wrap while averting one's gaze and to then cloth her and guide her back to her room. It may be that she has a more angry expression of dementia, and struggles and forces her way repeatedly out into public in an embarassing condition. One attempts as well as one can to cope with her and to avoid drawing more attention than necessary to a condition over which she has limited control. Of course one would not use her behavior to argue that public nudity laws should be relaxed - not if one was scrupulous and sensitive to her condition. But one would also not attack her choice of actions as if they were carefully considered and summon the police to prosecute her under those laws. She's not herself. Her actions do not represent a "position" of a political or social nature. They represent a mind unable to come to rest with itself.

That was the impulse behind my post. I don't think Ms. Sheehan correct. However, I also think that to attack her statements as if they were serious arguments requiring an answer gives them both more weight and less forbearance than they deserve. Of course they are irrational. She's not in a rational state. It is the kinder thing to recognize this and to let her statements sink quietly and unremarked.

Shanglan

That makes a good deal of sense.

I suppose I have my own little irrational episodes too. I found her pretty easy to ignore when the object of her anger was GWB. It's pretty hard to defend him, even if you are so inclined. If you aren't, it's even easier to just let it slide when people do.

I will, however, probably feel a response is neccessary anytime anyone points their angst at the servicemen and women who are just doing what they are ordered to. My own irrationality I suppose

 

[Lisa Denton]

One thing that truly troubled me about my visit to Louisiana was the level of the military presence there. I imagined before that if the military had to be used in a CONUS (Continental US) operations that they would be there to help the citizens: Clothe them, feed them, shelter them, and protect them. But what I saw was a city that is occupied. I saw soldiers walking around in patrols of 7 with their weapons slung on their backs. I wanted to ask one of them what it would take for one of them to shoot me. Sand bags were removed from private property to make machine gun nests.

Maybe she would have been happy if they were un-armed and had a bulls-eye painted on thier backs, they can't protect the innocents by throwing flowers at the snipers.



EDITED TO ADD: I saw a news story of a Texas Guard group that is working there, fresh back from Iraq. They said they were happy to be helping and protecting the citizens of thier own country, and damn proud to be given the dangers and hardships of that duty.

 

[BlackShanglan]

That makes a good deal of sense.

I suppose I have my own little irrational episodes too. I found her pretty easy to ignore when the object of her anger was GWB. It's pretty hard to defend him, even if you are so inclined. If you aren't, it's even easier to just let it slide when people do.

I will, however, probably feel a response is neccessary anytime anyone points their angst at the servicemen and women who are just doing what they are ordered to. My own irrationality I suppose

Some of the most delightful human behaviors are the thoroughly irrational ones.

Shanglan

 

[Couture]

Well, we are not talking about the brightest bulb in the box. I saw her when she was interviewed by Chris Matthews I thought, 'They really need to keep her underwraps. Give her a speechwriter or something. I don't know - have the press submit questions in advance.'

She keeps getting involved in things she has no idea about instead of staying focused on what she said she wanted in the first place, which was getting an answer about her son's death.

So now Sheehan, are you an expert on hurricanes and national disasters? Even if they depose the leadership of Louisiana with Black Water mercenaries and sell Slidel to the Russian mafia, keep a zip on it. Hell for all we know, maybe it would be an improvement. Seriously, there are other people who can step up for this stuff if it becomes necessary.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

Now Sheehan is telling Hillary to come out against the war, or she will lose her job. I guess Sheehan is now having delusions of grandeur in thinking that she can get Hillary voted out of office. She's starting to bite the hand that feeds her. She's going to piss off the wrong person, and the left will drop her like a bad habit. Well, all except for Moore. See link for full story

Sheehan again

 

[Jagged]

Cindy Sheehan......didn't she say if we got rid of the Jews we wouldn't have these problems. Something many are trying to hide despite her saying publically. Just Do a quick search with her name Jews.


I won't waste much time griping about her....I like to think of Casey Sheehan the rest of the heroes who died believing in a cause. The media never seems to have time for the parents who are harassed by pease activists. The children and widows made to cry as they drive to the PX and her their love one called a murderer. You seldom hear of those parents who miss their child, but admire them for standing up against evil.


Perhaps Mrs. Sheehan should look to other parents. Teddy Roosevelt.....former New York City police commissioner, war hero and author also dabble in politics...lol. He was most proud over being a parent though. Of his children 4 of his boys would serve in WWI.....the eldest joining the Canadian army to join in the fighting early. His name sake would make a career of the military and would be a leader and hero at D-day in WWII. Roosevelt encouraged his sons infact encourage all men to join because he believed war brought out the best men and was a great experience. His youngest of the four would die in air combat in the skies of France. Being a parent he was sad and many in the household would say when he thought he was alone he would cry....and say his son's name. Many know this part and say he changed his thoughts but when asked about his son's death he would say......."the only thing worse then him going and dying is if he did not go at all." An insane war needed to be ended and brave men were needed to end it.....he understood that and still missed his son.

 

[Couture]

Cindy Sheehan......didn't she say if we got rid of the Jews we wouldn't have these problems. Something many are trying to hide despite her saying publically. Just Do a quick search with her name Jews.

Oh I did. And you know what happened? Same thing that happened when I did a quick search for George Bush and Nazis. A bunch of crazy ass whack sites.

Perhaps Mrs. Sheehan should look to other parents. Teddy Roosevelt.....former New York City police commissioner, war hero and author also dabble in politics...lol. He was most proud over being a parent though. Of his children 4 of his boys would serve in WWI.....

How about Bush's daughters? Why don't they go dabble in that bit of business in the Middle East? Where was Bush and the other chick hawks when it came time for Nam? Where is Osoma Bin Laden? This war was a badly executed clusterfuck, yet the right wing scream machine is intent on defending it. If you'd get your noses out of Bush's asshole for a moment, you'd realize it. Goddamn, is it that fucking hard to plant a WMD? Could we have waited in order to be able to pressure Pakistan into not hiding Bin Laden?

Shit, this spoonfed silverspoon kid hasn't finished anything in his life - and he's running the fucking country. He's like a kid with a new tool set. "Heh, let me take it apart, see how it works. Then I'll put it back together again- even better. I'll do it - yessieree. "

Two weeks later there's bits and screws all over the house.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

What's the big obsession that some seem to have over Bush's daughters? Was there ever a cry for Chelsea to go to Bosnia? Was there ever a cry for any presidents children to be sent into a combat zone? Did anyone ever scream for JFK jr to go to Nam in the mid 70's? What about Nixons and LBJ's kids?

Hate Bush all you want, but leave his kids out of it.

 

[Couture]

What's the big obsession that some seem to have over Bush's daughters? Was there ever a cry for Chelsea to go to Bosnia? Was there ever a cry for any presidents children to be sent into a combat zone? Did anyone ever scream for JFK jr to go to Nam in the mid 70's? What about Nixons and LBJ's kids?

Hate Bush all you want, but leave his kids out of it.

When someone starts throwing around comments like, "Many know this part and say he changed his thoughts but when asked about his son's death he would say......."the only thing worse then him going and dying is if he did not go at all."
then you can't help but think it. At least I can't. Because if you really truly BELIEVE that Iraq is as important as WWII, then logic would dictate that EVERYONE - and in particular those that believe so strongly would be the first to make the sacrifice.

But the truth is - this ain't no WWII. It ain't even close. I don't blame the Bush twins. I don't blame JFK jr. Fuck that shit. I wouldn't go over there either. A hot - miserable - fucking quagmire. And what are we over there for? Let's check with the magic eight ball. ::Must stay course:: What kind of reason is that?

 

[Couture]

Anyway, I'm having a hard time trying to picture him under 40 pounds of gear and lugging around a machine gun.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38475000/jpg/_38475701_jfk_jr150ap.jpg

 

[Guest]

Anyway, I'm having a hard time trying to picture him under 40 pounds of gear and lugging around a machine gun.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38475000/jpg/_38475701_jfk_jr150ap.jpg

And Chelsea was 12 when her dad took office.