She Dies At 7 AM Today....

Lost Cause

It's a wrap!
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This will no doubt be a debate again on capital punishment. Do you think a history of abuse or mental deficiency gives cause for a stay of execution? Does the sex of the condemned matter?

Aileen Wournos (FL)
Oct. 9, 2002
7:00 AM EST

Aileen Wournos, a white woman, is scheduled to be executed Oct. 9 for a series of murders she committed in Florida in late 1989 and 1990. She confessed to six murders, but claimed she killed only in self-defense, resisting violent assaults by men while working as a prostitute. At her trial for the murder of Richard Mallory, Wournos testified that she shot him only after he attempted to violently rape her. Police found “nothing dirty” on the victim and concluded that there was nothing to substantiate the defendant’s tale of sexual assault. Had they simply run Mallory’s name through the FBI’s computer network, they would have known he served a decade behind bars for violent rape years before.

The defense showed that Wournos suffered a tragic, abusive upbringing, which resulted in antisocial and borderline personality disorders. Her mother abandoned her as an infant, and her father served time in mental hospitals in several states as a deranged child molester. Eventually, her father, like her grandfather, committed suicide, and her grandmother died of liver failure from alcoholism. Wournos suffered from physical abuse as a child, and later told police she had sex with her brother at a very early age. During both the trial and the appeal, the court declined to find the statutory factor of extreme emotional disturbance.

This case, from the early investigations to the appeals process, has been tainted by publicity and media drama. Three top investigators in the case hired lawyers within weeks of the arrest to field offers from Hollywood concerning movie deals. The media’s idea of catching a “serial killer” unjustly simplified the complexities of this case. As reporter Michele Gillen said on NBC upon revealing new evidence after the conviction and death sentence: “She’s a sick woman…but that’s no reason for the state to say, ‘She confessed to killing men; we don’t have to do our homework.’”

Unfortunately, Wournos’ abusive upbringing – a tragic situation far beyond her control – is not unique on death row. The United States sentences men and women to death every year with tragic childhood backgrounds, refusing to recognize the pattern of destructive behavior so often associated with such upbringings.


:rose: :rose:
 
This is an example of a no win situation. What she did was terrible, what was done to her was terrible. Which is the worst? I have no idea. It just makes me sad when I think of this case because this woman was doomed to tragedy from her childhood on due to the failure of others. I don't see how justice is a word that can be used honestly in her trial.
 
Lost Cause sometimes you post the most cheerful things. lol (Not)

"Do you think a history of abuse or mental deficiency gives cause for a stay of execution?"

No, there are people all over our world (sadly) that have suffered horrific abuse and have not murdered/killed in 'self defence'.

Saying that I leave myself open to the fact that I believe woman who have been physically abused by a spouse can commit murder and 'claim' battered woman's syndrome after years of abuse. I don't think it is right but I do believe it can happen. Does the abuse excuse the murder/killing of another person? No.

Mental defiency? This is a bit tricky. Each case would have to be judged on the person. If they are severely mentally deficient and it can be proved that they did not know what they did was wrong then executing them serves no purpose. Locking them up in prison or in a safe facility where they can do no more harm could be deemed more appropriate.



"Does the sex of the condemned matter?"

No, if you commit the crime, you do the time. Gender is a non issue IMO.


I feel empathy for this woman and the terrible abuse she has suffered. I wish that someone had intervened when/ before she was abused and helped her out/away from the abusive situation.

This did happen to her and her life has been affected in a terrible way.
 
Me too....

I can see psychiatric imprisonment for life, perhaps a case study and a trustee counselor in the future. We have to learn from people like that, it's like those dogs that are abused and kicked until they kill. Then they destroy the dog!
In this case, I don't think capital punishment is the answer. :D
 
never mind... I changed my mind about what I wanted to say .... :confused:
 
You know what, I'm pro death penalty. Some people are wired so wrong that it's best to gently put them down and end their misery and protect society.

But we are not mature enough, or responsible enough as a society, at this present time to administer it. I still go back to the rush on Judgment of Oklahoma Timmy and his Al Qaeda Cohorts...

We use it for revenge. That's wrong.
 
Re: Re: She Dies At 7 AM Today....

LionessInWinter said:
<snip> But hey, you're a bleeding heart if you acknowledge how innocent babies can be turned into monsters.[/B]

Innocent children can become monsters because of the abuse they have suffered. Their precious little minds warped by extreme cruelty and abuse. Turning into adults full of self loathing, rage and mental sickness because of what was done to them.

If they get the help they need before they grow up maybe they will not repeat the cycle of abuse that was done to them. Maybe they won't act out and kill. Bleeding hearts care and can make a difference.

I don't condone this woman being executed. In New Zealand the death penalty is non existent.

My original post could have been worded better. (Apologies, late my time zone)
Quote,""Do you think a history of abuse or mental deficiency gives cause for a stay of execution?"

No, there are people all over our world (sadly) that have suffered horrific abuse and have not murdered/killed in 'self defence'. "

What I meant was no, a history of abuse or mental deficiency does not excuse the murder of another person.

And echoing Lost Cause,"In this case, I don't think capital punishment is the answer."
 
I think ultimately you are responsible for your actions. Barring a severe mental illness, no one makes you do anything.

You can make all the excuses you want, in the end you did exactly what you wanted to do. People have fucked up childhoods all over the world. What makes one person turn it around and another kill because of it? To say well, my dad raped me and my mom commited suicide..thats why I killed so and so, is not my idea of a good reason for murder.

Your life is what you make it. Don't blame others for the choices you make.
 
I'm really not sure if the death penalty was appropriate or just in this case.

I just know that it's 7:36 am and Eileen Wuornos is probably a lot less miserable now than she was for her whole life.
 
I had a tragic, horrible past full of abuse and rape, too. I haven't and I won't go on a killing spree. I'm on the violent side, but there's no way I would put myself in a situation that would require me to act in self defense on purpose.

I may not be totally rational 24/7, but I am one of those people that believes that when you're a grown up you're responsible for your own self and your own decisions.

She may have been abused and raped and all of that, but what she made of her life was her own choice to make. We make our own way in this world and we are, once adults, accountable for our own actions.

Is she accountable for what she did or not? I say she is.

Should she die? I'm real iffy on the death penalty. I think it's acceptable for people who did commit these crimes. However, the death penalty takes innocent people wrongly convicted and just one innocent person makes the entire thing wrong.


An interesting thing, too. There's a girl who lives in a town nearby. She's just 17 now. She was raped when she was 15 and she put the man in jail. It wasn't long before she put another 7 men in jail for the same crime. The first one did it, the rest did not. Sometimes people get a taste of power and they can't let it go.
 
i don't think the death penalty should be seen as some kind of euthanasia ... its not an assisted sucicide when that person wants to live

at least call it was it is ... the society is murdering someone because they don't want that person to be apart of their society

can you live with that and justify it ?
 
KillerMuffin said:
However, the death penalty takes innocent people wrongly convicted and just one innocent person makes the entire thing wrong.


I could not agree more.

Isolate them from society. At least if you get it wrong you can release, apologise and compensate. With the death penalty there is no righting the wrong.
 
i dont believe in the death penalty. i dont honestly know what would be a fair punishment, but there is more than enough death in the world with out "legally" adding to the toll. My 2 cents.
 
She purposely sought out these situations. There were 'survivors' that testified at the trial concerning her attempts to lure them into a sexual confrontation.

She did not act in self-defense. She was a predator.

Fry the bitch.

Ishmael
 
i dont think i could live in a country/state that sent people to death on my behalf

i'd have to serious consider it anyway
 
sexy-girl said:
i dont think i could live in a country/state that sent people to death on my behalf

i'd have to serious consider it anyway

They wouldn't be sending them on your behalf. They send them because they have no idea what they should do with them. It's an easy option for government.
 
i think it would be on my behalf ... the jury represents the citizens of the country/state ... the laws are obviously to protect the citizens
 
Lost Cause, your original post failed to point out that once she was found guilty on the first charge, using the self defense line, she recanted and said she lured the men to steal their property and profit from its sale.

She was a cold blooded killer of at least six people. Evidence that she did it was overwhelming. Three independent doctors said she was not mentally deficient or psychologically unable to comprehend her actions.

Rhumb
 
i just think people should feel responsibility for what the government does and what the countries laws are
 
We all have been victims of something, most of us do not pick up a gun and blast caps into some unsuspecting stranger though. I support the death penalty only in a situation where there is no mistaking whom commited premeditated murder. It is removal of members from society that are unfit. No one is guaranteed life, liberty and happiness, its the survival of the fittest. Sorry, if someone uses the guise of sex to lure a victim into a deathtrap, then that person needs to go bye bye forever. She did it, Bundy did his crimes, they got what they deserved.
Once again, I only support this punishment when there is no mistaking whom the guilty party is, and that is why I support the lenghty appelate process when dealing with a death penalty case. Unfortunately, overzealous people have from time to time undermined this procedure and innocent people have paid the ultimate price for a crime they did not commit.
 
The original democracy believed that if a person was such a threat to the society that he had to be put to death for his crimes, then he must be put to death immediately. If he was not, then the society didn't truly believe he was threat enough for capital punishment and should not be put to death at all.

This is logical to me. If you think someone is bad enough to kill them for what they did, then lollygagging about for years upon years isn't perserving the peace of the people you're supposed to be protecting by this penalty, it's not exactly the revenge the victims desire (which is why they have no place in sentencing end of the justice system), and it's not punishing the crime.

Since we cannot be 100% with every case that the death penalty is meted out fairly--that poor black men and rich white men face the same likelihood of the punishment--or that every person being put to death is actually guilty, then we cannot put them to death immediately.

Therefore, the death penalty is wrong.

I am, of course, a gun-totin', flag-wavin', Republican-votin' anti-abortion, anti-death penalty moderate. So stick that fly in your ointment.
 
KillerMuffin said:
Since we cannot be 100% with every case that the death penalty is meted out fairly--that poor black men and rich white men face the same likelihood of the punishment--or that every person being put to death is actually guilty
take out the death penatly and insert just about any type of trial here. Does that make our justice system wrong?
 
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