Sexuality in Young Adults -- What's Your Take on This?

someplace

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This is the outline of a talk being given tonight to my daughter's dorm (18, 19, 20 yr old women) at college (by a male professor):

* * * * * * *

Touchy subject and terms; we're all adults.
Open discussion; not a lecture; feel free to say or ask anything.
We all know where babies come from, have knowledge of STDs; goal is to give you something you may have never heard before -- the guy's perspective.

Where I'm coming from -- not to judge or point to a particular set of beliefs; my only goal is to inform you of research and perspective I have. I'll talk as an educator, parent, married man (25 years), middle-ager, but most as a guy. You've probably thought about this stuff from only a couple of perspectives. I want to open this up and give you more to think about.

Question No. 1 -- How do you define sex?

Terms: Psychologists and law define it as intercourse (vaginal penetration by penis), anal, oral, manual (partner masturbation to orgasm)

Psycho -- What is sex? Studies -- questions that determine how people feel and think -- all indicate that all forms, even oral and manual are viewed as sex. When they ask people those questions designed to get their innermost feelings, people truly do lump all this together. And the psychologists also say many people include fondling in their feelings about sexual activity.

Law -- If you have intercourse in a public place you can be arrested for lewdness. The exact same thing would happen for oral sex and for fondling as well.

So all the experts say that all of these things -- intercourse, anal, oral or manual are sex. Do we look at it differently, and if so, why?

GUY PERSPECTIVE No. 1 -- Sex is sex is sex. Survery of men all indicate that when it comes to sex, it's all the same. The No. 1 thing they're after is an orgasm. Plain and simple. All they want is physical release. It's all the same, no matter the method. They may say that oral and manual aren't the same, but the studies that get to their innermost thoughts all say, an orgasm is an orgasm. And that's what they want. Which leads to:

Question No. 2 -- How big a deal is sex to a guy? Discuss.

It's monumental.

Stats -- Lots of studies. People 18-22. All, college students, men, women. Lots of variables. Here's the consensus for people like you, college students, both genders: About 80% have had sex as we defined it (intercourse, anal, oral, manual). Of the 80%, about 65% have had vaginal intercourse. About 50% are currently active.

These numbers are for both genders. Number run slightly higher for men than women, which is explained by fact men have more partners and also gay men with men.

NOTE - Human sexuality profs here at [my daughter's conservative university] say we run about 10% lower than these numbers, but the chaplain of a sorority on campus told me in her group the numbers ran about 10% higher.

Interesting aspect -- and this particularly goes back to talk about oral sex -- is that most college men expect sex after a certain period of dating. These numbers vary somewhat, but a significant percent of men -- and remember we're talking about over 80% have had sex -- expect at least oral sex after the third date.

Has that been your experience?

GUY PERSPECTIVE No. 2 -- It's a huge driving force. Deer hunting. Guys are like deer. They're absolutely driven. And remember, for them, it's almost all about orgasms.

And there are lots of studies that indicate men today are more driven than ever because what drives men -- as you all know -- is visual images. The male sex drive almost entirely starts with a visual image. You can't understand that any more than a man can understand a menstrual cramp. But it's true. Just look at today's media Advertising, TV shows, Janet Jackson's breast in the Super Bowl, Brittany Spears! Guys are being driven wild. That's why you get all those talks about the way you dress. Pornography is a multi-billion dollar industry because men are driven by visual images. Women are not motivated in the same way, which leads us to:

Question No. 3 -- What do you hope to gain from having sex?

Stats: women -- acceptance, security, love, intimacy, compassion -- way down the list for most your age -- orgasms. Interestingly the ratings of the importance of orgasms go up as women remain monogamous with one partner longer and it also goes up with age. But with your age group, the emotional side plays by far the largest role.

Stats: men -- Orgasms. That's pretty much it. Men rank acceptance, security, love, initmacy, compassion -- way down on the list. It's all about an orgasm. Interestingly, near the very bottom is pleasing their partner or helping her to have an orgasm. Both men and women surveyed indicate that men in your age group have virtually no concept of pleasing a partner, which leads to:

GUY PERSPECTIVE No. 3 -- Men your age are in it for themselves. They don't much care about anything but a physical release and they especially don't care about pleasing you. NOTE: Good news is that this factor increases as relationship becomes long-term and remains monogamous.

Question No. 4 -- How do people your age feel after having sex?

Studies -- Having sex helps women feel acceptance, security, love, intimacy, compassion ...BUT not for long. The feelings last only a very short time. Men feel very few of these things at all. After sex they generally have feelings of having conquered something, of having won. That's why guys call it scoring. They just got some points in a big game. Remember, they're not in it to please anybody but themselves.

GUY PERSPECTIVE No. 4 -- After sex, who's next? Who can help me have my next orgasm?

Conclusion -- Guys are not hopeless. I know that I've painted a bleak picture, but all the research indicates that at around age 30 men finally mature and assume many of the characteristics that would define an adult. Bear with them.

My goal tonight has been to inform you. You're at a point in life where you're making HUGE decisions. Classes, majors, interships, jobs, marriage...all these are big. I just want to give you some more information to help you.

And here's the bottom line: when a guy enters into a physical relationship, he loses his ability to think clearly. His thinking is clouded. He makes all kinds of crazy decisions. I think it's important that as you make this big decision in your life, that you do everything you can to keep your eyes open. I hope tonight I've helped you do that in one area of your life.
 
what kind of school is this, and was it a discussion, or did they just hand out that information on a piece of paper?

As far as statistics go, they can be molded to fit any perspective.

this statement put patriarchal society behind like fifty years, oh yeah wait, no it didn't. It perpetuated the myth that guys don't need to take any responsibility once their dick is hard.

"when a guy enters into a physical relationship, he loses his ability to think clearly. His thinking is clouded. He makes all kinds of crazy decisions. I think it's important that as you make this big decision in your life, that you do everything you can to keep your eyes open. I hope tonight I've helped you do that in one area of your life"

that's a bunch of bullshit.
 
I tend to have a great deal of sympathy for straight women.
 
perks:
"It perpetuated the myth that guys don't need to take any responsibility once their dick is hard."


They mostly don't have to take personal responsibility.
 
Unfortunately, what he says is generally true for the most part, and even of older guys sometimes.
 
College.....lol

ahahahaha.

I wonder how many of the 18, 19, and 20 year old college girls old mr 25 years of marriage is tossing the bone to for a grade bump.

ahahaha.
 
Never said:
perks:
"It perpetuated the myth that guys don't need to take any responsibility once their dick is hard."


They mostly don't have to take personal responsibility.

Come again?
 
My daughter is a community leader at her dorm and is known for boldly discussing more "sensitive issues" with her girls. Her academic advisor is the one giving the speech. My daughter sent this to me and asked what I thought. (I wished I'd forwarded those emails to my home account to c&p) -- but basically my take is that I thought it was a cop out.

It sounds a bit like "Oh forgive the poor boys who are only acting on their animal instinct" -- and -- it's the girls' job to keep things from getting out of hand.

I asked what the purpose of this discussion was, so we emailed back and forth a bit about that. My daughter believed the purpose is to make girls realize that boys are not thinking about sex with them in terms of the future, but just the here and now.
 
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What bothers me about it is the notion that boys don't have emotional ties to being intimate with girls. This is the kind of Donna Reed-esque era crap I was fed a zillion years ago.

I remember as a teenager being absolutely SHOCKED to realize that guys had just as sensitive feelings as girls. Maybe because I gravitage toward artists, I've been more around emtionally expressive men, but I don't believe all they were interested in was an orgasm.

I'll never forget my son's distress over breaking up with a girlfriend in his early 20s. It broke my heart. That was not over the loss of regular orgasms.

Or what about more recently, when guys I thought of as friends with benefits/fuck buddies developed very strong emotional ties through sexual intimacy?

I just think this prof is selling the girls a line here. And that bothers me.
 
I must have missed this dorm discussion when I was going to college. But, then, I was always more interested in my professors than the kiddies around me.

Maybe the speech is a subtle hint for college students to go for the older men. It is given by a male professor, after all.
 
perks said:
what kind of school is this, and was it a discussion, or did they just hand out that information on a piece of paper?

As far as statistics go, they can be molded to fit any perspective.

this statement put patriarchal society behind like fifty years, oh yeah wait, no it didn't. It perpetuated the myth that guys don't need to take any responsibility once their dick is hard.

"when a guy enters into a physical relationship, he loses his ability to think clearly. His thinking is clouded. He makes all kinds of crazy decisions. I think it's important that as you make this big decision in your life, that you do everything you can to keep your eyes open. I hope tonight I've helped you do that in one area of your life"

that's a bunch of bullshit.

It's a large conservative university (founded by a large protestant denomination) known now for their medical work.

If I were hearing this "talk" I'd be cynically ripping his statistics to shred. WHERE do they get it from? But that's just me.

I posted this also on my other board, thinking that I'd have some other thoughts to share with my daughter. Interestingly, the women see problems with the tone, but the guys are saying, "Yeah...that's about right. Guys are like that at that age."

I'm having a hard time buying that.
 
someplace said:
My daughter is a community leader at her dorm and is known for bolding discussing more "sensitive issues" with her girls. Her academic advisor is the one giving the speech. My daughter sent this to me and asked what I thought. (I wished I'd forwarded those emails to my home account to c&p) -- but basically my take is that I thought it was a cop out.

It sounds a bit like "Oh forgive the poor boys who are only acting on their animal instinct" -- and -- it's the girls' job to keep things from getting out of hand.

Perhaps that was what he is saying, but you can get a number of other things out of it. It is partly the girls' responsibility to keep things from getting "out of hand", however that is defined by the people involved at the time (partly because in most cases sexual encounters are initiated by the woman), but it is also the boys' responsibility to control himself. It takes two to tango and boys (or men, what have you) are not as animilistic as all that, as you obviously know.

I asked what the purpose of this discussion was, so we emailed back and forth a bit about that. My daughter believed the purpose is to make girls realize that boys are not thinking about sex with them in terms of the future, but just the here and now.

I suppose that is true to some extent, but also in general, not just with sex.
 
TamedTiger said:
Maybe the speech is a subtle hint for college students to go for the older men. It is given by a male professor, after all.

I was thinking more of the correlation between the number of men at Lit in their late 20s who've been looking for a "teacher." :avery:

Is it because they've only just realized that their enjoyment is greater if their partner is enjoying herself (i.e, attaining multiple orgasms) AND they've been so busy just getting themselves off without any thought to their partner's pleasure -- that their practical knowledge of such things is woefully inadequate?
 
someplace said:
It's a large conservative university (founded by a large protestant denomination) known now for their medical work.

If I were hearing this "talk" I'd be cynically ripping his statistics to shred. WHERE do they get it from? But that's just me.

I posted this also on my other board, thinking that I'd have some other thoughts to share with my daughter. Interestingly, the women see problems with the tone, but the guys are saying, "Yeah...that's about right. Guys are like that at that age."

I'm having a hard time buying that.

Oh, well no wonder. That's the typical conservative view of the genders. While there may be some truth to it, it's not the whole picture either, which is usually the story with most conservastive material, and why it can be so insidious.
 
Oh, and the other thing we learn from this talk is that the gals over in the sorority are getting more than their share!

:devil:

(Raise your hand if you didn't know THAT was true!) :catroar:
 
Stuponfucious said:
Oh, well no wonder. That's the typical conservative view of the genders. While there may be some truth to it, it's not the whole picture either, which is usually the story with most conservastive material, and why it can be so insidious.

Well I don't happen to believe that ALL conservative material is insidious as you put it, but I do believe each person has to weigh ALL sides of any issue to come to their own truth about it.

Believe me, even at so-called "conservative" schools, the kids are doing all the same things that happen at other schools....they just probably feel more guilty about it afterwards.
 
Am I the only one who senses the message that (young) women aren't enjoying sex? That women get involved in sex for emotional reasons, but not to experience orgasm?

Is this another subtle way to tell women that sex is dirty?

I already asked my daughter (when she sent this to me) if she REALLY wanted to have this discussion with her mother....but there's so much she needs to KNOW. This weekend's discussions should be interesting when she comes home...
 
someplace said:
Well I don't happen to believe that ALL conservative material is insidious as you put it, but I do believe each person has to weigh ALL sides of any issue to come to their own truth about it.

I didn't put it as all conservative material is insidious, I said it can be.

Believe me, even at so-called "conservative" schools, the kids are doing all the same things that happen at other schools....they just probably feel more guilty about it afterwards.

I know.
 
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someplace said:
Am I the only one who senses the message that (young) women aren't enjoying sex? That women get involved in sex for emotional reasons, but not to experience orgasm?

Is this another subtle way to tell women that sex is dirty?

I already asked my daughter (when she sent this to me) if she REALLY wanted to have this discussion with her mother....but there's so much she needs to KNOW. This weekend's discussions should be interesting when she comes home...

Good for you. Make her talk about this. As a college aged male, the original post pissed me off. There are guys who are in it for "action." But most of my friends and myself, we like sex but we also care about women. I do not lose the ability to think or love my gf once I get hard. I feel this conservative school is just trying to make these women wait for sex.
 
someplace said:
Am I the only one who senses the message that (young) women aren't enjoying sex? That women get involved in sex for emotional reasons, but not to experience orgasm?

Is this another subtle way to tell women that sex is dirty?


I was thinking that too. It sounds so much like the old line of "all boys want..." and that only men get any kind of enjoyment out of sex. Then throw in the talk of men not having any emotional attachments to the women they are having the sex with, and it sounds very much like a subtle way of talking these women out of having sex.
 
So what about this?

Do most 18, 19, 20 year old girls who are sexually active experience orgasm through intercourse???

Maybe the prof is being more realistic than me by tailoring the message in that way. I know i didn't achieve orgasm through intercourse until much later in my life...probably due to both my partners' and my lack of knowledge & experience, plus my own hangups about giving myself permission to "let go."
 
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