Sex, Equality, And Kidding Ourselves

Cheyenne

Ms. Smarty Pantsless
Joined
Apr 18, 2000
Posts
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I actually agree with SOME of this article. I know a few women with the maternal instincts of a rattlesnake. And we do play favorites between men and women when it comes to divorce and child support, or support for bastard children. But the rest of it? Nah....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://www.fredoneverything.net/ColMenu.html

Sex, Equality, And Kidding Ourselves

Men of today's older generation grew up in the chivalric miasma of their time, which held that women were morally superior to men, and that civilized men protected women against any available vicissitude. A corollary was that women needed protecting. So common has this understanding been throughout
history that one may suspect it of being based in ancient instinct: In a less hospitable world, if men didn't protect women, something disagreeable would eat them, and then there would be no more people. So men did. And do.

Instincts have consequences, particularly when the circumstances requiring them cease to exist.

Because women were until recently subordinate, and in large part played the role of gentility assigned to them, men didn't recognize that they could be dangerous, selfish, or sometimes outright vipers. They were no worse than men, but neither were they better. Men believed, as did women, that women were tender creatures, caring, kind, and suited to be mothers. Males
deferred to women in many things, which didn't matter because the things women wanted were not important.

When women came into a degree of power, it turned out that they were as immoral, or amoral, as men, probably more self-centered, and out for what they could get. Not all were, of course, as neither were all men, but suddenly this became the central current. This too followed lines of instinctual plausibility: Women took care of children and themselves, and men took care of women. It made sense that they should be self-centered.

These newly empowered women knew, as women have always known, how to wield charm, and they quickly learned to enjoy power. The men of the old school didn't notice in time. They deferred, and they were blind-sided. They gave gentlemanly agreement to one-sided laws hostile to men.

Political deference became a pattern. It remains a pattern. It probably springs in part from the male's instinctive recognition that, by giving women what they want, he gets laid. Between individuals this worked tolerably well, but less so when applied to abstract groups.

When women said they wanted protection against dead-beat dads, the old school fell for it. They were attuned to saving maidens and the sheltering from life's storms of white Christian motherhood. "Dead-beat dads" was of course that sure-fire political winner -- an alliterative slogan of few words that embodied a conclusion but no analysis. So sure were men that
women were the kinder gentler sex that they never bothered to look at the statistics on abuse of children, or the track records of the sexes in raising children.

The romantic elderly male believed -- believes -- that women were the natural proprietors of the young. This led to laws virtually denying a divorced father's interest in his children, though not the requirement that he pay for their upkeep. The pattern holds today. Male judges in family law defer to women, almost any women no matter how unfit, and female judges side
with their own. The demonstrable fact that women can and do abuse and neglect children, that a female executive clawing her way up the hierarchy may have the maternal instincts of a rattlesnake, that children need their fathers -- all of this has been forgotten.

The reflexive deference continued. Feminists wanted congress to pass a vast program of funding for every left-wing cause that incited enthusiasm in the sterile nests of NOW. They called it the Violence Against Women Act, and men deferentially gave it to them. Of course to vote against it, no matter what it actually said -- and almost no one knew -- would have been to seem to
favor violence against women. A law to exterminate orphans, if called the Domestic Violence Prevention Act, would pass without demur.

There followed yet more male deference to female desires. When women wanted to go into the military to have babies, or a Soldier Experience, men couldn't bring themselves to say no.

When the women couldn't perform as soldiers, men graciously lowered standards so they could appear to. It was the equivalent of helping a woman over a log in the park, the legal and institutional parallel of murmuring, "Don't worry your pretty little head about a thing."

On and on it went. The aggregate effect has been that women have gained real power, while (or by) managing in large part to continue to exact deference and, crucially, to avoid the accountability that should come with power. A minor example is women who want the preferential treatment that women now
enjoy, and yet expect men to pay for their dates. In today's circumstances, this is simple parasitism.

Today men are accountable for their behavior. Women are not. The lack of accountability, seldom clearly recognized, is the bedrock of much of today's feminist misbehavior, influence, and politics. Its pervasiveness is worth pondering.

A man who sires children and leaves is called a dead-beat dad, and persecuted. A woman who has seven children out of wedlock and no capacity to raise them is not a criminal, but a victim. He is accountable for his misbehavior, but she is not for hers. It is often thus.

Consider the female Army officer who complained that morning runs were demeaning to women. A man who thus sniveled would be disciplined, ridiculed, and perhaps thumped. Yet the Army fell over itself to apologize and investigate. Again, men are held accountable for their indiscipline, but women are not. Men expect to adapt themselves to the Army, but women expect the Army to adapt to them. And it does. The male instinct is to keep women
happy.

Note that a woman who brings charges of sexual harassment against a man suffers no, or minor, consequences if the charges are found to be unfounded -- i.e., made up. A man who lied about a woman's misbehavior would be sacked. He is accountable. She isn't.

Yes, large numbers of women are responsible, competent, and agreeable. Few engage in the worst abuses, as for example the fabrication of sexual harassment. Yet they can do these things. A man cannot throw a fit and get his way. A woman can. Only a few need misbehave to poison the air and set society on edge. And the many profit by the misbehavior of the few.

People will do what they can get away with. Men assuredly will, and so are restrained by law. Women are not. Here is the root of much evil, for society, children, men and, yes, women.

©Fred Reed 2002
 
Yes, large numbers of women are responsible, competent, and agreeable. Few engage in the worst abuses...

I would agree, Chey. And yes, I have been snake bit.:cool:
 
And the backlash is coming. I see it in the new generation of men that are being raised.

And exactly what happens when men just don't give a shit anymore? When the "priveledge without responsibility" carpet has worn thin?

FACT: As a child you are twice as likely to
be murdered by your mother as your father.

FACT: According to the FBI's UCR for the year 1998, there 2.1 million cases of domestic violence filed in the US. 1.3 million of these 'victims' were women. Guess who the other .8 million victims were.

FACT: Not one dollar of federal dollars are spent on the research of woman vs man violence, or programs related to same. All of the money is spent on man vs woman violence.

FACT: In follow up interviews by the FBI investigators, 20% of all domestic violence complaints made by women were fabricated. Less than 1% of those made by men were.

Yep, we guys are spreading this info via the internet. As a business owner it will color my judgement on any future hirings. As a thinking individual, it colors my perception of any woman that I may want to date or form a more lasting realtionship with. It has colored the information that I've shared with my sons.

Only takes a few bad apples to make the whole barrel suspect.

Ishmael
 
I hate generalization.....

....and this article relies a little too heavily upon it. One example lept out at me, the statement that as women become more powerful in business we find that they are as amoral as men. I would think that people are amoral on a pretty much equal basis. What is upsetting that the very small minority of men who are amoral are generalized into being the norm. The same level of amorality in a woman manager is covered as an aberration, if at all!

Chey, just out of interest, what parts of the article do you find yourself unable to agree with on any level?

Rhumb:cool:
 
This is an increadably important topic that will be hard to deal with because it flys in the face of the "hard wiring" tha most of us men have, but it also goes to the core of the resitence that some floks have towardgiving women equality. As the father of four young women, it is something that I am concerned about.
 
She's right. The backlash has begun. You see it in products for men: that article (not for men, but highlighting the male burden), tv shows (The Man Show- though Married with Children was always a male sanctuary), magazines like Stuff... and the NO MA'AM sites...

As it should. Men have a dilemma. The basis and some points in the article were right.

But I don't like the way the article was written. It had a lot of generalization (like Rhumb said) and it kind of speaks of the evils of women without a sincere look at both sides of the issue.

A lot of benefits for women are making up for the discrimination they have faced, and are still facing.

Plus, men and women are not the same. Nor will they ever be. We have been in an adjustment period, since we realized women should be treated as equals, even if they are not the same. (Is there a word for being different but equal? because my mind is a blank)

That's why I don't like this article. Find another one that says the same thing.
 
If a man has a historicaly women's jon, i.e. secretary, he is less than a man, he is ridiculed.
If a woman has a historicaly man's job, i.e. buisness person, she is heralded.

A woman can argue for the side of women. Most often a man can't, without being branded sexist and a chauvenist pig.
 
MechaBlade said:

That's why I don't like this article. Find another one that says the same thing.

It's the author's opinion, an editorial comment on society. I wasn't really searching for an article that said this stuff. It was sent to me in email, like most of the stuff I post here for people to comment on.

I already posted what I agreed with from the article. I DO know some women with the motherly instinct of a rattlesnack. They exist. We aren't all cut out to be moms.

I also do think that women get the automatic benefit of the doubt in divorce cases with children involved. Not exactly the same thing as dead beat dads vs baby factory women, but at least in the same ball park.
 
The author's points directed toward the military aspect is quite solidly founded in reality. Granted it doesn't apply to every female in the military, but the physical standards were lowered and there are women who get away with things no man could ever manage in the military.
 
There will never be fairness until the rules apply equally to both genders ...and it does not. Our clay is molded differently and we view each other as having a distinct role.

It is easy for us to agree with this article, if we've experienced such behavior in the opposite sex...and easy to dismiss, if we have not. Our opinions are based on our experiences. Each gender will take their own side...and defend their own gender. And no one will admit to generalization...BUT WE ALL DO IT!

And it is a two way street...both sides argue about each others behavior and call each other name. I'm a chauvinist...and you're a bitch.

For some of you...bitch is just a convenient label that you dismiss because you feel it's a generalized term...when really, all they are saying is that you are not a nice person.

And I find that those "bitches" that complain about comments that are derogatory and condescending to the extreme... are often just as guilty of such behavior...
 
This is the same guy who says:

Why is schooling so poor for black children? To begin with, because blacks have little enthusiasm for academics.


I can't believe Cheyenne drags in racist / sexist drivel without filtering it through common sense....nevermind, maybe I can.
 
Marxist- I don't know where your quote about black kids came from but it wasn't anywhere in this thread.

Start your own thread if you want to have a discussion on racism. This one is taken for sexism.
 
This article horrifies me in that I know there are people out there who will react like Ishmael and will let this one *opinion* article taint their view of women from now on. It's their loss, but it still scares me. I don't want someone reading that drivel and basing my next job application on the opinions of some guy who has been burnt one too many times. I don't want people discriminating against me because they *think* I might be something they don't like.

This man needs to do some more research before pumping out such garbage. I'd like for him to go up to businesswomen in my mom's generation and my grandmother's generation and tell them that they weren't accountable for themselves, that they were just handed what they asked for. That is complete fabrication. That's why many women have needed to grow thicker skin when it came to dealing in the "man's world" of business, etc. They are not like that because they want to be but because they have to be in order to get anywhere near the recognition, praise and sense of worth that men got. After I get out of college I will find out first-hand where women stand today, and I'm sure it's different but I don't know how vastly different it will be.

I also agree with a couple of points in the article -- like Cheyenne said, some women are just bad mothers, others are just plain mean, others don't take responsibility for their actions (like "baby factories"). But to generalize these kind of statements about women in general is a dangerous thing to do and only proves the ignorance of the author.

About one of Ishmael's statistics: he stated that 2.1 million cases of domestic violence are filed each year. 1.3 of these victims are women, and .8 of the victims are "guess who?" I just wanted to know if the 2.1 mill number was just a measure of men & women and domestic violence or if those are the collective numbers? Because if they are collective, then .8 consists of men as well as children and infants, possibly the elderly, etc. Those are still large numbers, but it's a bit of a misrepresentation to claim that nearly half of the cases are men being abused when it isn't.
 
Marxist- if you want to stay to play, how about giving us your comments on THIS article? THIS topic?

Time for work for me, see ya!
 
Re: This is the same guy who says:

Marxist said:



I can't believe Cheyenne drags in racist / sexist drivel without filtering it through common sense....nevermind, maybe I can.

I don't know if you think Cheyenne actually believes this crap, but she's just putting this up here for people to discuss. It is not at all unbelievable that she would post another article somewhere else about racism, as it is also a social issue that needs to be addressed. The whole point of her posting these is so that they *can* be filtered through common sense.
 
Cheyenne said:
Marxist- if you want to stay to play, how about giving us your comments on THIS article? THIS topic?

Time for work for me, see ya!

Have a great day at work Cheyenne. You're a valuable employee and your presence is required.

THIS article is stupid. THIS article is the product of a racist / anti-feminist mind.

This is the same guy who wonders aloud why White men prefer Asian women...

Is that true as well?
 
a comment not related to this topic...

Marxist said:

This is the same guy who wonders aloud why White men prefer Asian women...

Because we are better? :cool:
 
BustyTheClown said:
This article horrifies me in that I know there are people out there who will react like Ishmael and will let this one *opinion* article taint their view of women from now on. It's their loss, but it still scares me. I don't want someone reading that drivel and basing my next job application on the opinions of some guy who has been burnt one too many times. I don't want people discriminating against me because they *think* I might be something they don't like.

Busty...some "guys" opinion will be no more tainted then your opinion of men based on your own experience. I'm sure they will not react any differently then you would...if you were in power.

And I'm sure that you've never said..."all men are dogs..." or "men are such pigs..."
 
I love the article cheyenne. It's a great read and, funnily, on reading it I thought of Lavy. She's a great read too.

For me, the perspective in which I understand this is that gender attitudes which, in terms of our evolution, had become established over hundreds of thousands of years were seriously taken out into the open for scrutiny, not because of the feminist movement, but because female sexuality became divorced from procreation. I'm only repeating an old argument here.

The disequilibrium this causes affects all aspects of society - hence the range of examples in the article - and no doubt the waters disturbed by the storm will take some time to settle.


For me this article is a great reference when it comes to gender issues:

http://www.mega.nu:8080/gender.html


Another perspective!
 
Re: Re: This is the same guy who says:

BustyTheClown said:


I don't know if you think Cheyenne actually believes this crap, but she's just putting this up here for people to discuss. It is not at all unbelievable that she would post another article somewhere else about racism, as it is also a social issue that needs to be addressed. The whole point of her posting these is so that they *can* be filtered through common sense.

I don't know how familiar you are with Cheyenne but she has a penchant for copy and pasting articles from reliable sources like The Washington Times on a fairly consistent basis.

Somehow I don't think she's looking for a sincere discussion.
 
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