Sex and Surgery

[Blangis]

Hi all,

Are there any rules that would prevent my quite graphic story to be successfully submitted? I'd like to write a story regarding a notoriously violent gangster and his partner in crime, a former surgeon, distilling pleasure from defiling a woman using not only their engines but various surgical tools, death/murder not being the theme, maybe I would leave the victim (Who would be sedated) minus a limb and a series of 'puncture' wounds, but surviving none the less. Inspired by the infamous guinea pig movie Flowers of Flesh and Blood except with a slightly more merciful conclusion and some content of a more sordid nature.

Is there any point entertaining thoughts of submitting such a story? I aim to give it the agonizingly realistic details that made FoFaF so fascinating, so it will be quite dodgy I speculate. I've had a gander at the various rules and threads, as far as I can tell I can't include pedophilia, bestiality and also rapes involving celebrities, is everything else fair game?

Also, I have never written something like this except a few rapes that didn't really involve excessive violence. Are there any stories on Literotica that may offer me some inspiration to be recommended?

Thanks

 

[Stella_Omega]

Place it in erotic horror section, and you should be fine.
Twisted and disturbing, but fine...

There's a writing group on livejournal that might be interested in something like this. And there's aword in the internet community- "squicky" means sort of disgusting.. Your story would be categorised as "multisquick"

I learn something new every day!

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Sorry Stella, but I disagree. Torture and sadism are not erotic horror, and I would hope the Lit editors' sense of taste and site preservation would keep that kind of story out of here.

I myself would pull my stories from the site if they started letting hard-core sadistic torture and snuff in. There are some things I won't stand for.

--Zoot

 

[Blangis]

Sad to hear that, dr_mabeuse, but it is admirable you feel the need to protest against that which appalls you, though somewhat surprising considering that grandiose bio.

Thanks for the encouraging words, Stella, this is the first I’ve heard of livejournal and I’ll investigate it further, this new found vocab should prove helpful too

 

[cloudy]

Sad to hear that, dr_mabeuse, but it is admirable you feel the need to protest against that which appalls you, though somewhat surprising considering that grandiose bio.

Thanks for the encouraging words, Stella, this is the first I’ve heard of livejournal and I’ll investigate it further, this new found vocab should prove helpful too

First, welcome to the AH.

Second, as far as your question goes, Literotica won't publish anything with gore just for the sake of gore, which is what you're describing sounds like. I've read it somewhere - I'll try to find it when I'm not so sleepy. I think it's sort of immature, myself, like all those Freddy and Jason movies, but, hey, whatever floats your boat.

And, third, being a smartass to Dr. M, one of our most respected posters here...someone who's published, is not a way to win friends and influence people. I might rethink that, if I were you.

 

[Guest]

First, welcome to the AH.

Second, as far as your question goes, Literotica won't publish anything with gore just for the sake of gore, which is what you're describing sounds like. I've read it somewhere - I'll try to find it when I'm not so sleepy. I think it's sort of immature, myself, like all those Freddy and Jason movies, but, hey, whatever floats your boat.

And, third, being a smartass to Dr. M, one of our most respected posters here...someone who's published, is not a way to win friends and influence people. I might rethink that, if I were you.

Well said, cloudy.

Blangis, I know there are many sites that will accept your type of writing.

I am very glad that Lit isn't one of them, quite honestly.

Good luck.

 

[Blangis]

Second, as far as your question goes, Literotica won't publish anything with gore just for the sake of gore, which is what you're describing sounds like. I've read it somewhere - I'll try to find it when I'm not so sleepy.

Well, if this would help my cause, this particular story is but a chapter of a much larger one, most of which is quite 'friendly' (ie Lots of consensual, family orientated fun). The character with this depraved penchant I will use as a contrast to make three other characters of low moral fibre look comparatively saintly which I feel will be of significant benefit to the story as a whole, and by placing the man at scenes where he is at his best behaviour, these scenes will hopefully gain a sufficient overtone of danger and volatility from his dual personality. Considering its rather extensive surroundings that follow this formula of sexual harmony, dare I ask, could it be said I am describing gore for reasons other than describing gore?

And, third, being a smartass to Dr. M, one of our most respected posters here...someone who's published, is not a way to win friends and influence people. I might rethink that, if I were you.

I only recently joined and I’m unable to access the internet regularly, I doubt I’ll be gaining many friends or flexing much influence any time soon. I just want to write stories, hopefully ones that other people may enjoy. I’m posting here for advice and help is all, if people want to exploit me to make themselves seem more noble or virtuous, then I have no problem with that, simply Dr_m surprised me with this attitude since, as you say, he seems a very respectable and knowledgeable poster, I thought he’d be above needing to exploit newbies such as myself for the purposes described above.

Blangis, I know there are many sites that will accept your type of writing.

I am very glad that Lit isn't one of them, quite honestly.

Fair enough, could you please suggest a couple of other sites I could visit?

 

[Guest]

Fair enough, could you please suggest a couple of other sites I could visit?

I remember coming across a few scary sites before I found Lit.

Do a google search for erotic stories using terms such as "snuff" or "rape" or "torture" - I imagine you'll find some of what you seek.

I have a feeling those sites won't want the sexual harmony, though.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Sorry Stella, but I disagree. Torture and sadism are not erotic horror, and I would hope the Lit editors' sense of taste and site preservation would keep that kind of story out of here.

I myself would pull my stories from the site if they started letting hard-core sadistic torture and snuff in. There are some things I won't stand for.

--Zoot

Well, it don't ring my bell either, but that's where it would go. I've certainly encountered shredding mutilation in that section. (Written by a guy who took exception to my "Snake" story, and told me I needed to check the grammer and spelling and learn how to write. I think he feels proprietory towards certain genres)

What can I say? If this were MY site, I would change a lot of things. If I were to stand on my principles, (No bad writings, no disrespect) I would be long gone...

 

[Guest]

Well, it don't ring my bell either, but that's where it would go. I've certainly encountered shredding mutilation in that section. (Written by a guy who took exception to my "Snake" story, and told me I needed to check the grammer and spelling and learn how to write. I think he feels proprietory towards certain genres)

What can I say? If this were MY site, I would change a lot of things. If I were to stand on my principles, (No bad writings, no disrespect) I would be long gone...

A lot of us would be gone!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, if this would help my cause, this particular story is but a chapter of a much larger one, most of which is quite 'friendly' (ie Lots of consensual, family orientated fun). The character with this depraved penchant I will use as a contrast to make three other characters of low moral fibre look comparatively saintly which I feel will be of significant benefit to the story as a whole, and by placing the man at scenes where he is at his best behaviour, these scenes will hopefully gain a sufficient overtone of danger and volatility from his dual personality. Considering its rather extensive surroundings that follow this formula of sexual harmony, dare I ask, could it be said I am describing gore for reasons other than describing gore?...

That's the perenial question. I think it would best be answered by writing it all out- and then considering how much of it needs to be there to make your point. I would say that having that much graphic gore in a story will overpower the *ahem* thrust- of all the happy consensual activity in all the rest of the work. That's just the way it is, really. Stephen king can put one- just one- paragraph of creepiness into an otherwise almost-normal novel, and voila- another horror masterpiece.
If I, in the character of a casual porn reader, were reading happy sex- and I came across this section, i would stop reading you, forever. I would feel tricked by the author, into a non-consensual situation.
I've learned to be explicit in my prologues, when my characters move from vanilla to BDSM or rough sex. And it's made a difference to my ratings, I can tell you!

You have to remember that erotica has one primary focus, which is the get-off. It's best for the reader- not the writer, necessarily- to concentrate on one activity alone. If my fetish is about high hell shoes, I don't want you to tell me about hats, okay? Don't interfere with my wanking pleasure!

I only recently joined and I’m unable to access the internet regularly, I doubt I’ll be gaining many friends or flexing much influence any time soon. I just want to write stories, hopefully ones that other people may enjoy. I’m posting here for advice and help is all, if people want to exploit me to make themselves seem more noble or virtuous, then I have no problem with that, simply Dr_m surprised me with this attitude since, as you say, he seems a very respectable and knowledgeable poster, I thought he’d be above needing to exploit newbies such as myself for the purposes described above.

The Doctor is an extremely knowledgable pornster. And he loses patience sometimes. But here he is expressing his personal opinion of a set of actions, telling you that he finds them repugnant. I agree with that opinion, but it has little to do with your original question.
Your best bet is to submit the story and see if it's accepted or not. Please add a note in reference, so that Laurel and Manu- who have to read every godawful thing that comes through the submission process- will have prior warning. I don't think Laurel will want to be the reader!

 

[champagne1982]

<snip>And, third, being a smartass to Dr. M, one of our most respected posters here...someone who's published, is not a way to win friends and influence people. I might rethink that, if I were you.

With all due respect, since when is calling what you see being a smart ass? His bio does suggest that dr M is open to many things. Besides, I'm pretty sure he can take care of himself.

to everyone:

In relation to freedom of expression, one should allow the work to be written before judging the content. Don't ya think?

 

[Andreina]

try www.bdsmlibrary.com, blangis

 

[cloudy]

With all due respect, since when is calling what you see being a smart ass? His bio does suggest that dr M is open to many things. Besides, I'm pretty sure he can take care of himself.

grandiose: characterized by affectation of grandeur or splendor or by absurd exaggeration

 

[CharleyH]

Sorry Stella, but I disagree. Torture and sadism are not erotic horror, and I would hope the Lit editors' sense of taste and site preservation would keep that kind of story out of here.

I myself would pull my stories from the site if they started letting hard-core sadistic torture and snuff in. There are some things I won't stand for.

--Zoot

Well, I must disagree. Was not de Sade all about erotic horror? And is this not where S/m (as we know it and not practice necessarily) comes from? I don't think he (de Sade) was a good writer, in fact he was pretty damned dull, even in his descriptions of torture, but why censor things that don't break the Lit rules even if they cross your own boundaries? Are you for censorship?

Sexual sadism is very different from criminal sadaism, I understand ... but just hypothesizing, isnt that what some want? Why deny them?

 

[rgraham666]

Well, I guess that political allegory dressed up as a BDSM piece I'm working on will have to find another place to be posted.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, I guess that political allegory dressed up as a BDSM piece I'm working on will have to find another place to be posted.

so boring... take it to the political lit site, okay?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Are you for censorship?

I guess so.

I don't want to read stories about children getting fucked or abused. I don't want to read about women being beaten or surgically tortured and having their tits cut off or impaled on sharp sticks.

And to tell you the truth, I don't want to know the people who enjoy those kinds of stories either.

I don't mind ultra-violence in certain contexts, "American Psycho" for instance. But when you start beating a woman for the sexual thrill, I don't want anything to fucking do with it.

See, I'm a little weird. I think what we do here matters, that words matter, that they influence behavior. I've got no problem with BDSM, and I work in it all the time. But BDSM isn't the same as torture, and anyone who thinks it is doesn't know either very well.

I don't see how we can all sit around wringing our hands about violence against women and then come here and applaud stories of women being surgically tortured, as if it doesn't matter.

But then, that's just me.

 

[sincerely_helene]

And to tell you the truth, I don't want to know the people who enjoy those kinds of stories either.

And here I thought you liked me this whole time.

I'm all good with respecting the lit guidelines and not posting those kind of stories, but ouch Doc. That hurt.

 

[CharleyH]

I guess so.

I don't want to read stories about children getting fucked or abused. I don't want to read about women being beaten or surgically tortured and having their tits cut off or impaled on sharp sticks.

And to tell you the truth, I don't want to know the people who enjoy those kinds of stories either.

I don't mind ultra-violence in certain contexts, "American Psycho" for instance. But when you start beating a woman for the sexual thrill, I don't want anything to fucking do with it.

See, I'm a little weird. I think what we do here matters, that words matter, that they influence behavior. I've got no problem with BDSM, and I work in it all the time. But BDSM isn't the same as torture, and anyone who thinks it is doesn't know either very well.

I don't see how we can all sit around wringing our hands about violence against women and then come here and applaud stories of women being surgically tortured, as if it doesn't matter.

But then, that's just me.

I doubt you are weird. I do understand the artistry in BDSM, and agree. But de Sade was not an artist or was he in his writings? Is that not where we gather our definitions between S/m? Between de Sade and Masoch? And are they not both violent by nature?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I guess so.

I don't want to read stories about children getting fucked or abused. I don't want to read about women being beaten or surgically tortured and having their tits cut off or impaled on sharp sticks.

And to tell you the truth, I don't want to know the people who enjoy those kinds of stories either.

I don't mind ultra-violence in certain contexts, "American Psycho" for instance. But when you start beating a woman for the sexual thrill, I don't want anything to fucking do with it.

See, I'm a little weird. I think what we do here matters, that words matter, that they influence behavior. I've got no problem with BDSM, and I work in it all the time. But BDSM isn't the same as torture, and anyone who thinks it is doesn't know either very well.

I don't see how we can all sit around wringing our hands about violence against women and then come here and applaud stories of women being surgically tortured, as if it doesn't matter.

But then, that's just me.

I don't read those stories but I know they are published here.

I certainly don't mind trying to persuade someone not to include it- the pragmatic reason that his readership will dwindle because of the mixing of the genres seems like the best reason to give.

it's a question of censorship. And, a question of self-censorship.

I would also say that it's possible for me to understand writing these things... but it's far more disturbing to me to think of the kinds of people who want to read it.


Charlie...
De Sade, and that poor sap Sacher-Masoch, did lend their names to a form of sexual expression that was particularly poorly-understood at the time it was named.
But to compare current BDSM practices with those primitive concepts- utterly uninformed in Masoch's case, and utterly political in De Sade's- is like comparing...

hell, I don't know, a turd with a Porterhouse Steak.

just my opinion!

 

[CharleyH]

I don't read those stories but I know they are published here.

I certainly don't mind trying to persuade someone not to include it- the pragmatic reason that his readership will dwindle because of the mixing of the genres seems like the best reason to give.

it's a question of censorship. And, a question of self-censorship.

I would also say that it's possible for me to understand writing these things... but it's far more disturbing to me to think of the kinds of people who want to read it.


Charlie...
De Sade, and that poor sap Sacher-Masoch, did lend their names to a form of sexual expression that was particularly poorly-understood at the time it was named.
But to compare current BDSM practices with those primitive concepts- utterly uninformed in Masoch's case, and utterly political in De Sade's- is like comparing...

hell, I don't know, a turd with a Porterhouse Steak.

just my opinion!

Neither were too far off from a thought -as we look around us - nature and culture? Why cant you see what is ... rather than whats new? Since nothing is new, love Why dont you redefine S/m for me then in the current practice of it

 

[CharleyH]

I don't read those stories but I know they are published here.

I certainly don't mind trying to persuade someone not to include it- the pragmatic reason that his readership will dwindle because of the mixing of the genres seems like the best reason to give.

it's a question of censorship. And, a question of self-censorship.

I would also say that it's possible for me to understand writing these things... but it's far more disturbing to me to think of the kinds of people who want to read it.


Charlie...
De Sade, and that poor sap Sacher-Masoch, did lend their names to a form of sexual expression that was particularly poorly-understood at the time it was named.
But to compare current BDSM practices with those primitive concepts- utterly uninformed in Masoch's case, and utterly political in De Sade's- is like comparing...

hell, I don't know, a turd with a Porterhouse Steak.

just my opinion!

Since nothing is new, love - Why don't you redefine S/m for me then in the current cultural practice of it.

 

[Blangis]

I intend to write a story of gratuitous violence and depravity of course, but that doesn’t mean I have a preference for that particular genre either in writing or indeed within my sexual proclivities which you would likely find quite harmless. Indeed, I anticipate I will struggle to write this story in the same way I struggled through books such as American Psycho and The 120 Days of Sodom, but I think attempting it can only prove beneficial. Even in the highly unlikely event my story ends up a literary masterpiece, I don’t think I’d be inclining anyone else towards murder and violence, such things are often the products of the entirely natural anyway, volatile mostly in the face of everyday circumstances rather than stories on erotic websites. The biggest restraint to me producing this is that the victim will be a quite well developed, likeable and piteous character, I think because of this it would be quite impossible for me to glorify her fate, but this isn’t my objective as I’ve explained.

That's the perenial question. I think it would best be answered by writing it all out- and then considering how much of it needs to be there to make your point. I would say that having that much graphic gore in a story will overpower the *ahem* thrust- of all the happy consensual activity in all the rest of the work. That's just the way it is, really. Stephen king can put one- just one- paragraph of creepiness into an otherwise almost-normal novel, and voila- another horror masterpiece.
If I, in the character of a casual porn reader, were reading happy sex- and I came across this section, i would stop reading you, forever. I would feel tricked by the author, into a non-consensual situation.

This is excellent advice, thank you, although still I feel overall the thing would benefit from having this demonic character and I would still like to give readers an option to see him at his most despicable. Maybe I could submit this particular chapter as separate from the rest, allowing readers the choice. Those who don’t choose to read it will be given clues to his penchants where necessary but obviously not these detailed descriptions, maybe I could add a reference in introduction at an appropriate time so that if they are curious to know more about him, they can go and seek out this additional information. Do you think that would work? Really I think it’d be superb to portray him as the most devilish fiend imaginable, I could use him in so many ways to compliment other characters. My intention isn’t really to surprise the readers with him, I have already hinted in the story on numerous occasions that he truly is quite dodgy and I have introduced the three principle characters by rank of ‘severity’ (ie The first is a bit of ladies man and quite chivalric, friendly, this last will hopefully be quite horrific and directly opposite), so by the time of his introduction they should hopefully have an inkling of what to expect. Therefore I have no problem including a few warnings if that would be helpful.

try www.bdsmlibrary.com, blangis

That seems an excellent suggestion, thanks

With all due respect, since when is calling what you see being a smart ass? His bio does suggest that dr M is open to many things. Besides, I'm pretty sure he can take care of himself.

to everyone:

In relation to freedom of expression, one should allow the work to be written before judging the content. Don't ya think?

Well, I must disagree. Was not de Sade all about erotic horror? And is this not where S/m (as we know it and not practice necessarily) comes from? I don't think he (de Sade) was a good writer, in fact he was pretty damned dull, even in his descriptions of torture, but why censor things that don't break the Lit rules even if they cross your own boundaries? Are you for censorship?

Sexual sadism is very different from criminal sadaism, I understand ... but just hypothesizing, isnt that what some want? Why deny them?

Thanks for the support

 

[Stella_Omega]

Since nothing is new, love - Why don't you redefine S/m for me then in the current cultural practice of it.

You'll find that definition in many of my stories, darlin'!


As a matter of fact, I do think the current practice is about as new a thing as you're going to get. Like Computer Science, Astrophysics, and Basketball, you know?
There's plenty new, love!