Seriously... this guy is freaking me out!

[elsol]

He's Indian (not cloudy indian but the other kind) and he's a latin rap artist.

Seriously... he's more latin than I am.

Jesus Christ! We're worse than American Culture!

How the hell can I have LATIN PRIDE when we'll take anybody!?!

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[cloudy]

He's Indian (not cloudy indian but the other kind) and he's a latin rap artist.

Seriously... he's more latin than I am.

Jesus Christ! We're worse than American Culture!

How the hell can I have LATIN PRIDE when we'll take anybody!?!

Sincerely,
ElSol

I read an op-ed piece awhie back about being "out-indianed" by wannabes. If I can find it again, I'll post it.

 

[Guest]

I read an op-ed piece awhie back about being "out-indianed" by wannabes. If I can find it again, I'll post it.

Those people just wanna take off your panties, cloudy.

(sounds delicious, actually)

 

[cloudy]

Found it! It's written by Charles Trimble, who wrote the hilarious article on wacinko that I posted in my NA thread.

Trimble: Figuring out who are the real NDNs

In recent columns I used the phrase ''to out-Indian'' and the term ''out-Indianing.'' A couple of readers asked me about my seeming preoccupation with the concept. ''Actually,'' I responded, ''out-Indianing is what it's all about in much of Indian affairs - especially in the last few decades.''

In the mid-1960s, the media brought the issues of reservation and urban Indian poverty to the public forefront, and being Indian came into vogue. New leaders were emerging in Indian country, and in most cases they were ones who matched the stereotypes the media looked for as representatives of the race. Especially in the urban-Indian communities, the question often arose as to who the real Indians were and what constituted being a ''real'' Indian. Then the practice of out-Indianing came about.

As ideologies formed around that era's new activist movements, being a ''real'' Indian required adherence to certain traits, demeanor and dress. A real Indian, for example, eschewed suit and tie, but wore equally non-Indian and stereotypical Hollywood attire such as leather vests, headbands and fringes all over. So-called ''Rez cars'' were no longer embarrassments; decorated with ostentatious displays of dream catchers, little war bonnets, and ''Indian Pride'' bumper stickers, they became faddish and an effective means of out-Indianing.

Epithets like ''apple'' and ''Uncle Tomahawk'' came into derisive usage in Indian circles to describe those who didn't conform to the new traits, dress and demeanor. These were fashioned after the epithets of the more radical Black movement. As the term ''Oreo'' charged ''black on the outside and white on the inside,'' so the term ''apple'' charged ''red on the outside and white on the inside.'' In other words, a sellout, not a real Indian.

I'm reminded here of an incident from the early American Indian Press Association days when one of our associates, a bright and winsome Lakota woman, was called an apple. She responded that if some people were so insistent that she was a sellout, she'd rather be called a radish: ''red on the outside, white on the inside ... and HOT.''

In these times, there is a new distinction between the real Indian and the lesser, ''colonized'' Indian. This is based on such breaches of standards as using certain terminology, e.g., ''tribe'' instead of ''nation,'' and having Indian-kitsch curios hanging from one's rear-view mirror.

Not long ago, a grandniece of mine was wearing a T-shirt with the bold letters ''NDN'' on the front. When I asked her what it meant, she replied, ''Duuuh ... just pronounce it.'' I had to bonk myself on the forehead and apologize profusely, ''Oh, 'Indian': of course.'' But having to ask the question placed me squarely in the ranks of a new caste - un-hip Indian.

''Out-hipping'' is another form of out-Indianing. That means being hip to the latest buzzwords like NDN and the latest jokes about welfare, commodities and frybread.

In Indian circles, one can also be ''out-reverenced.'' That is having to be corrected, icily, about something that is or should be considered too sacred for jocularity. I learned to stay out of American Indian chat rooms on the Internet when I was informed that I should be ashamed for using the Lakota name Heyoka (he's sacred), and even joking about that little prehistoric Woody Herman, Kokopeli (sacred, too). I was excoriated for saying I am Oglala Sioux instead of Oglala Lakota.

The term ''frybread'' (what us old timers used to call ''fried bread'' back in the '40s and '50s) is yet another heretofore fashionable symbol of Indianness doomed for the bone yard of ethno-political incorrectness. The South Dakota Legislature, by enactment, has recently named frybread as an official symbol of the state: the state food, joining the state bird, state animal and state song. It was a nice gesture of reconciliation, but state acceptance will undoubtedly doom that sumptuously decadent dish, already on the endangered list on behalf of the real Indians who proclaim obesity as a stigma of colonized Indianness. The great economic benefits to families and non-profit fund raisers of Indian Taco sales will have gone by the wayside, as will the beneficial utility of commodity lard.

My God, Heyoka, what is an apple, colonized, un-hip, irreverent, pseudo-savage Sioux to do? Perhaps I will open up a school of fashionable Indian correctness. With such ever-changing modes in Indian vogue, I will get rich. And although excoriated from various quarters, I'll at least find some comfort in my passe, un-hip non-Indianness.

Charles E. Trimble is an Oglala Lakota from the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. He was principal founder of the American Indian Press Association in 1970, and served as executive director of the National Congress of American Indians from 1972 - 78. He is president of Red Willow Institute in Omaha, Neb. and a columnist for Indian Country Today.

 

[elsol]

UNCLE TOMAHAWK!!!

Okay... that shit is funny.

As for my situation, I shouldn't be surprised. I mean in high school I knew a redheaded and green-eyed latin girl and she was VERY proud of her latin heritage.

I thought that was weird until I met a male version in a college latin fraternity.

My sanity requires me to ignore blonde and blue-eyed latin women... cause to be perfectly honest I really can't handle the possibility of getting everything I want actually existing.

Let's not talk about Asian Latin Girls... those are just... SO RIGHT!

But Indian Latin dudes!!!

I wonder if he does what I do and cross out Hispanic and write in Latino.

*sigh*

Seriously, we need some standards, if we'll let anybody in to the Latin club then eventually there will be no real Latins. Although, I hear we're not letting our progenitors, the Spaniards, in.

Which is patently ridiculous if you think about it!

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[R. Richard]

As for my situation, I shouldn't be surprised. I mean in high school I knew a redheaded and green-eyed latin girl and she was VERY proud of her latin heritage.

I thought that was weird until I met a male version in a college latin fraternity.

I wonder if he does what I do and cross out Hispanic and write in Latino.

Seriously, we need some standards, if we'll let anybody in to the Latin club then eventually there will be no real Latins. Although, I hear we're not letting our progenitors, the Spaniards, in.

Which is patently ridiculous if you think about it!

Sincerely,
ElSol

I don't know why it should be considered "weird" that a hispanic/latino should be redheaded, green-eyed and probably fair skinned. The north end of the Iberian peninsula is the Pyrenees Mountains. People who live at high elevations tend to wear a lot of clothes as it gets COLD up there. Thus high-altitude people tend to be fair-haired and fair-skinned. The condition also exists among the Italians who have the same kind of situation.

 

[bholderman]

The article Cloudy posted, reminded me of an iritation I have of going to PowWow's here in southern California.

Perhaps it may be a naivete in regards to the Indian dance associations (of which I know nothing about), but it bugged the crap out of me that that ehtnic groups from all over the continent dressed in Plains regalia (i.e the Hollywood buckskin, turquoise and feather laden outfits.

It comes across as very generic which I know the multitude of groups here are not. Which leads to the impression that even among native American groups there is even a sterotype to strive for.

Am I off base on this one?

 

[cloudy]

The article Cloudy posted, reminded me of an iritation I have of going to PowWow's here in southern California.

Perhaps it may be a naivete in regards to the Indian dance associations (of which I know nothing about), but it bugged the crap out of me that that ehtnic groups from all over the continent dressed in Plains regalia (i.e the Hollywood buckskin, turquoise and feather laden outfits.

It comes across as very generic which I know the multitude of groups here are not. Which leads to the impression that even among native American groups there is even a sterotype to strive for.

Am I off base on this one?

Not completely, no. One thing for folks to remember is that the dancers that compete at powwows come from everywhere, so you may very well be seeing people from the plains nations, and not just from your area. There are a good many dancers who go on the powwow trail every year, and that's how they earn their money - the really good ones, anyway.

Most tribes/nations wear buckskin and feathers in some fashion, just the styles are different, not the material the regalia, headdresses, etc., are made out of. As far as turquoise goes, it's mainly a western thing, although trade routes were amazingly far-reaching.

And, a lot of what you may be seeing is tourists and/or the wannabes that plague every powwow.

 

[bholderman]

Cloudy,

That would seem true. Every now and then, I come across someone who is so naive about native American culture, it blows ones mind. I often have to remind them that they are people just like everyone else, with the same trengths and weaknesses of charater.

 

[Recidiva]

As a white person let me point out to those that are accustomed to taking pride in their ethnicity.

Nanananana.