Serious Debate About the Competitions

[NicoleZ]

I would like to open a serious debate about the competitions and I do so by quoting Oggbashan and hopes he forgives me as just as his is, my intent is honest:

What I would like is for the contests to attract hundreds more entries. It ought to be possible. Other writing contests on sites that don't have Literotica's massive numbers of daily visitors can get thousands of entries.

The Halloween Contest had 97 entries, or rather, there were 97 entries left when the competition ended. As other members wrote:

So we are preaching to a tiny congregation. And it's only getting smaller. By my count, there are three individuals in this contest alone who entered but claim to never enter again, entered but dropped out, or didn't enter because of the negativity.

So then, how do we save our flock? Are they worth saving because they are so few? I'd like to think yes. Doing nothing will change nothing.

While there is no way to find out exactly how many active writers there are; many probably and sadly are no longer active or even with us, there must be thousands. In the last two days alone, the 30th and 31st, ten more new writers joined. Incest/Taboo lists ten new writers (as opposed to writers debuting in the category) within the last 19 days while small categories such as SciFi & Fantasy (ten in the last three months) and Humor & Satire (eight new this year) still show a healthy influx of new writers.

In addition to the rewards offered by entering these frequent competitions; the vaunted W, the glory and the not inconsequential cash prices for the three top stories, we are told that there are other, indirect advantages of entering:

• The Contest Stories are linked to the front page of Literotica during the contest. That visibility means that contest entries get much longer exposure than on the New list
  
• A competing story can gather more views and votes in a month than a normal story in the same category gathers in three years
  
• Contest entries grab eyeballs and that's a fact; Those eyeballs also tend to look at your other stories

What is it that is dissuading writers from entering, and if we are to believe Oggbashan, why is there barely a hundred entrants on Litterotica while other sites without the massive number of readers Litterotica is blessed with has “thousands of entries”?!?

WHY are there so few entries? and WHAT can / will be done about it?

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I wrote a Halloween story, let another member read it, but didn't submit it. I know how to write horror, and the contest wont improve my skills. That is, with all I know about LIT, contests offer little incentive to me to participate.

In his Gettysburg Address Lincoln observed the Great Truth of how neither he nor others can add glory to what is already glorious. I avoid patriotic memorials for the same reason, they add nothing to the celebrants glory.

I want an incentive to participate.

 

[NicoleZ]

That is, with all I know about LIT, contests offer little incentive to me to participate.

I want an incentive to participate.

Ok, there we have one reason - insufficient incentive (a.k.a. reward given not commensurate with effort expended)

(I think I know exactly what would be to most. After all, it's the next logical step up and I'm certain Laurel would already have seen this had she not been far too busy with the daily hands-on, or rather, eyeballs-on business of vetting dozens of stories. It may even have been tried or contemplated but abandoned as being too ambitious. Let's wait with this suggestion until there's more flesh on these particular bones shall we?)

 

[RejectReality]

There's nothing that can be done.

The people who want to believe that the contests are rigged either by the site or other forces are going to believe that no matter what. It doesn't seem to stop them from participating, but the constant shaming of winners and even the "wrong" participants is driving people out of the contests, or off the site completely.

Look back at old contest threads, such as this one: http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=443552&page=68

Then look at how many entries there were:
https://www.literotica.com/contests/2006/halloween2006.shtml

180 entries ( condensing the multiple chapters of stories that were entered ) back when the support threads were actually supportive.

The same incentives were in place. The angst over troll voting is still there. The emotional turmoil of the sweeps is still there. What's not there is the relentless attacks on the winners.

Follow the chain through the support threads year after year. As more people jump on the winner-shaming wagon, fewer people participate.

 

[TxRad]

There's nothing that can be done.

The people who want to believe that the contests are rigged either by the site or other forces are going to believe that no matter what. It doesn't seem to stop them from participating, but the constant shaming of winners and even the "wrong" participants is driving people out of the contests, or off the site completely.

Look back at old contest threads, such as this one: http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=443552&page=68

Then look at how many entries there were:
https://www.literotica.com/contests/2006/halloween2006.shtml

180 entries ( condensing the multiple chapters of stories that were entered ) back when the support threads were actually supportive.

The same incentives were in place. The angst over troll voting is still there. The emotional turmoil of the sweeps is still there. What's not there is the relentless attacks on the winners.

Follow the chain through the support threads year after year. As more people jump on the winner-shaming wagon, fewer people participate.

Sorry RR but that does not compute. Three of the top four are no longer on this site. Looking down the list of entries, I see a dozen that no longer post to lit because they are now selling instead of giving away their stories. I also see another dozen good writers that no longer post here at all because of the political fiascos that came after.

You are using apples to make an orange case. Sorry but that doesn't work.

ETA: pointing out how a group of writers are using a formula to win contests is not shaming the winners. And if you notice, they gave it up after everyone knew about it and knew what to look for.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I agree with RR.

If you want to encourage more people to enter, then the harassing, shaming, and innuendo has to stop.

Which means the minute crap like the above appears in the Support Thread, it be immediately dumped in the Grassy Knoll Thread.

 

[CyranoJ]

I certainly can't see all the paranoid bullshit helping matters. It's not everyone who can just shake their heads and laugh it off. (And I can see people moving on to a greater focus on commercial publishing, but a site with Lit's participation numbers ought to be able to replace them.)

Of course, it's perfectly possible and even likely that the harassing, shaming and innuendo is precisely intended to reduce the number of contestants.

One minor adjustment that would be nice, and that should actually be doable, is to make the cash awards available to participants outside the US. Be dead easy to do via PayPal or Interac.

 

[oggbashan]

...

One minor adjustment that would be nice, and that should actually be doable, is to make the cash awards available to participants outside the US. Be dead easy to do via PayPal or Interac.

They are.

 

[oggbashan]

I agree with RR.

If you want to encourage more people to enter, then the harassing, shaming, and innuendo has to stop.

Which means the minute crap like the above appears in the Support Thread, it be immediately dumped in the Grassy Knoll Thread.

As the originator of most of the Support Threads I don't have any control of what is posted in them. Only the AH Mod could move posts.

 

[CyranoJ]

They are.

Ah. Good show, then, Lit! (They weren't when I started here...)

 

[NicoleZ]

One minor adjustment that would be nice, and that should actually be doable, is to make the cash awards available to participants outside the US. Be dead easy to do via PayPal or Interac.

Another useful suggestion, thank you! (Even if they apparently are)

 

[TxRad]

I agree with RR.

If you want to encourage more people to enter, then the harassing, shaming, and innuendo has to stop.

Which means the minute crap like the above appears in the Support Thread, it be immediately dumped in the Grassy Knoll Thread.

So the truth goes to the grassy knoll, huh. Wouldn't it be more helpful to do away with the cheating, group down voting, and the rest of the bullshit. Probably more productive also.

How about doing away with anonymous commenting and voting during a contests?

On the list RR showed, a whole lot of the writers were from right here in the AH. It was a much larger, more diverse group than it is today. Very few outside the AH even knew there were contests. The same applies today. Very few writers outside the AH even know about the contests. That is the reason the holes are not filled and the numbers are down.

CF, you don't like me for whatever reason, I really don't care, but don't shoot the messenger of bad news just because you don't like it.

 

[RejectReality]

There's no more "truth" to the latest theory than there was about the uncountable ones spouted before.

In fact, it's nothing new.

Writing in the "wrong" category: Started by scouries years ago.

The cabal of conspirators: Started by scouries years ago.

The list goes on and on.

It's no wonder he doesn't bother coming around any longer. He has a whole crew of unwitting acolytes smearing the contests and the site for him. All he needs to do is pop in once in a while and plaster his story links on the forum.

Of course "those people" must have left because they were "caught". It couldn't possibly be because they were being harassed on a daily basis for months on end.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

I entered the contests once some years ago, and suddenly found myself beset by whiners, pleaders and traders all dodging for votes. I thought it was a writing contest judged by readers and not a lobbying contest squabbled over by writers. Haven't entered one since, and don't expect to in the future, though I won't deny that I read the stories and find many of them quite good.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

It has nothing to do with you, just common sense.

I'm still waiting for your rebuttal of the "last minute" argument. Let's discuss that, then move onto "the formula "

So the truth goes to the grassy knoll, huh. Wouldn't it be more helpful to do away with the cheating, group down voting, and the rest of the bullshit. Probably more productive also.

How about doing away with anonymous commenting and voting during a contests?

On the list RR showed, a whole lot of the writers were from right here in the AH. It was a much larger, more diverse group than it is today. Very few outside the AH even knew there were contests. The same applies today. Very few writers outside the AH even know about the contests. That is the reason the holes are not filled and the numbers are down.

CF, you don't like me for whatever reason, I really don't care, but don't shoot the messenger of bad news just because you don't like it.

 

[8letters]

I would like to open a serious debate about the competitions

Why do you want a serious debate about competitions? You had a bad experience in the first one you entered. You don't plan to enter any more. Let it go and move on.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I'm done with NICOLE threads.

 

[Nezhul]

Ok, I'll tell you what dissuades ME from entering the contests.
Thing is, if I am just doing my thing, writing, answering comments in my member's area, working with editors and answering to e-mail feedback... I never know that the contests are coming up!
Like, if I don't serf a specific forum and pay very close attention to the sticky, then I don't know that any contest is there. And let's face it, probably ony 5% or less of writers are active on the forums. And among those very few would be interested in actually participating!

For me, I can't see a new contest and write a good story for any given topic. I may have some ideas, I may have not. I will not write just for the sake of contest. Sad thing is, this time I might have had a good story for Halloween, but the thing is I found out about the contest two days before submission time ended! I probably won't have anything worthwhile for Christmas.

and then there is another thing. You open up contest thread and there are so many letters in the first post that I almost wanna close it right away. Psychologically, I feel like there are too many rules and stuff there, even though there aren't in truth.

So what would I suggest:
1) Maybe re-write members area and other important areas of the site to show message about running or upcoming contests. Nothing major - just picture the Member's area where at the very top you see a test: "Christmas is coming! Christmas story contest 2016 is up, check it out!" and a link.
2) maybe make the rules a bit shorter or even more lenient. Like allowing specials for story series - not a chapter, but a standalone special episode that can be read by anyone separately.
3) Pull it out of forums and into something more custom-made, like a special page on the website or something. It really feels like a forum game, currently, mainly for forum dwellers, and as I said - most of your authors don't visit the forums.

 

[RejectReality]

There's no prohibition against that. Standalone stories, even when connected to other stories are allowed.

The no-chapter rule was made to stop what had become a problem of people flooding the contest with as many as 20 chapters of the same story.

2) maybe make the rules a bit shorter or even more lenient. Like allowing specials for story series - not a chapter, but a standalone special episode that can be read by anyone separately.

 

[CyranoJ]

I admit I'm puzzled that people don't know contests are happening, because they're announced on the site's front page. Maybe they could put them in a bigger font or something? I dunno.

People on the forums are generally also in the contests, but that doesn't mean the contests are only being found from the forums. It just as easily means that once you decide to enter a contest, coming to the forums to ask questions is a logical move. That was true for me.

It makes sense for there to be a place to discuss the contests and ask questions, and for that place to be on the forums. With more vigorous moderation maybe.

 

[TxRad]

There's no more "truth" to the latest theory than there was about the uncountable ones spouted before.

In fact, it's nothing new.

Writing in the "wrong" category: Started by scouries years ago.

The cabal of conspirators: Started by scouries years ago.

The list goes on and on.

It's no wonder he doesn't bother coming around any longer. He has a whole crew of unwitting acolytes smearing the contests and the site for him. All he needs to do is pop in once in a while and plaster his story links on the forum.

Of course "those people" must have left because they were "caught". It couldn't possibly be because they were being harassed on a daily basis for months on end.

I didn't say these people left. they are still here, although the group seems to have broken up to a point. What i said was, they quite using their formula. And yes there is a formula. A certain writer here tried it and won on their first contest try.

So you guys can bitch and moan and rant and rave about there not being a formula all you want but I know better.

RR, the scouries crap you are using is another smokescreen. He wrote in incest, period. And no, he didn't have a cabal, he had an army of alts and a few kiddy scripts he had someone write.

The better question is why was scouries allowed to do the things he did for so long. Anyone else would have been bounced long ago. Laurel must have here reasons but they are beyond me.

He hasn't posted a story here in four years but he hasn't dropped one place in the favorites list. Try not posting a story for a year and see how far you fall. His alt Sarrahhh stopped posting at the same time and is now out of the top 50.

You want more people in the contests? Advertise it more. That's what these contests that have thousands of entries do. That and they have the whole world to draw from not just the erotic writers out there.

 

[TxRad]

I admit I'm puzzled that people don't know contests are happening, because they're announced on the site's front page. Maybe they could put them in a bigger font or something? I dunno.

People on the forums are generally also in the contests, but that doesn't mean the contests are only being found from the forums. It just as easily means that once you decide to enter a contest, coming to the forums to ask questions is a logical move. That was true for me.

It makes sense for there to be a place to discuss the contests and ask questions, and for that place to be on the forums. With more vigorous moderation maybe.

Most writers probably don't come into Lit through the front page but through their author's page. Maybe there should be a note on the author's pages.

 

[NicoleZ]

Why do you want a serious debate about competitions? You had a bad experience in the first one you entered. You don't plan to enter any more. Let it go and move on.

Oh dear, where do I start?

Could it be that I actually do care about something greater than myself? This topic has nothing to do with airing a grievance but all to do with coming up, collectively, with useful ideas on how to make it better for everyone; site owner, readers and writers, alike.

Yes, it is true, I have stated that I will not enter any more competitions in their current form, a rider you have either missed or (deliberately?) overlooked, and I stand by that. Were it only me, I would probably have gone like you wish, but I am not alone am I, and the site does have long-standing, genuine problems, something not even you can deny.

 

[NicoleZ]

So what would I suggest:
1) Maybe re-write members area and other important areas of the site to show message about running or upcoming contests. Nothing major - just picture the Member's area where at the very top you see a test: "Christmas is coming! Christmas story contest 2016 is up, check it out!" and a link.
2) maybe make the rules a bit shorter or even more lenient. Like allowing specials for story series - not a chapter, but a standalone special episode that can be read by anyone separately.

I like that Nezhul! Nice, constructive suggestions.

 

[StrangeLife]

- I agree - advertisement may actually be the key, as it often is when "selling" stuff. Only a fraction of the authors use the forum, and there may even be some that don't even know about the contests. So a big colored banner popping up for all users a month or so in advance may help gather more entries

http://i.imgur.com/Z70B7BS.gif


- And then of course that thing with hiding the scores during the voting period which would stop all the strategic voting and gaming - that would definitely be nice. It would also make the final reveal of the winners really exciting.


- My third suggestion would be making Kate Beckinsale in a catsuit one of the prizes, but her husband would probably object so I guess thats a no-go...