Self Publishing

[phillyinjun]

Has anyone here tried self publishing or heard of someone who has a success story with it?

Thanks

Charlie

 

[Zeb_Carter]

No but if you go to excessica.com you can see a host of authors from lit there, under other names, have a very successful co-op kind of publishing company.

 

[sr71plt]

The hardest job in publishing a book is not either writing the book or printing it/slapping it on a Web site. It's getting the book in the hands of readers--and of paying readers, if you plan on making a profit (or even your outlay back) on it.

There are a few purposes that self-publishing can serve--family memoirs just for the family and texts to support your own businesses seminars, for instance. You will get only as many books distributed in self-publishing as you can, yourself, grab hold of someone willing to take a copy--which will usually happen one by one with a great deal of effort. If this sounds appealing, do consider self-publishing.

There have been a few success stories--enough to either illuminate the hundreds of thousands of unsuccessful stories or to fool the determined into assuming they will beat the odds themselves, depending on how receptive the writer is to reality.

If you'd like to read a success story, check out M.J. Rose (http://www.go-publish-yourself.com/community/interview-rosem.php, who pushed her books from self-publishing into publishers picking them up and who now makes most of her money by cruising book festivals and evangelizing her success story (which, in fact, is a true story--and M.J. is a very interesting person; we're friends). Of course, what M.J. may not tell you is that she was a professional book promoter before she accomplished this with her own books. Most self-publishers won't start out with the answer book as she did.

 

[DeeZire]

Boota, a LIT author, is self-published, if you include print-on-demand in that category. I ordered his book through Barnes & Noble. They shipped it directly to my home.

He posted a link here to a radio interview he did in a major market. I'm sure that helped to bolster sales. As SR71 said, it's all about promotion.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

A friend of mine self published.

He wrote a Civil War history book and printed 1000 copies. Almost all of his sales were to libraries and Civil War buffs.

I paid $20 for a copy. Out of print, its sells for $100 on Amazon.

Very good book, but limited appeal. None of the commercial publishers were interested.

 

[Boota]

I've had pretty good luck with POD. Some major radio markets have picked up on it and it has really helped my sales. I'm not getting rich, but I'm doing okay and I'm getting attention for my work. A few other authors from Authorhouse have had their books made into movies and that opened publishing doors for them. I've had some contact with Hollywood and something could happen like that for me one of these days.

It really is all about promotion. Not being afraid to hear the word, "No". Or even, "God No!" as was sometimes the case with my book. It is a long uphill climb. Chain stores have rules against carrying self-published authors, but sometimes you can get a manager to take a chance. I've gotten my book on the shelves of a few stores in every major chain I've attempted.

I have another good thing going for promoting my book in that my band gets a lot of attention and I always slide promotion for my book in with all of that stuff whenever possible. It got a little hectic two years ago because I was doing press for the band and the book at the same time and I couldn't keep it straight about what I was supposed to be talking about with who. LOL. That worked out okay, though. I asked one interviewer on the air, "Is this about my book or my band?" And she goes, "You write books?" That took off on another 20 minute discussion and I got to promote both. My band doesn't care because it's just added attention for them too.

My advice - self-publish and start a metal band.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BOOTA

Just read a biography of George Patton. The man was 24/7 self-promotion. Fortunately for him, he had plenty of money to pay for the attention he bought. Fortunately for America, he was the Real McCoy. But the gratuities to the powerful got him noticed and opened doors.

I mean, how many millions of books are there that never sell a copy after the first printing, and the fireworks and tv promotions have done their work?

And there are millions of excellent books ignored by everyone.

 

[phillyinjun]

Thanks! All this is very encouraging and inspiring. I guess I meant print on demand when I said self publish. I was looking at a service that Amazon has and now realize there are a few to look at.

 

[THROBBS]

Yes. However, I "bit the bullet" and Actually "Self-published"... I printed 2,000 hardcover copies (a somewhat riskier route than print on demand). As noted, the bigger issue is distribution and promotion.

I have sold about 1,300 so far and am well past recouping my investment. This is with ONLY local sales and my own web-site sales (pay-pal).

I had a tough time finding realistic numbers on other self-published books.

Selling to stores I found that the $ ratio is generally 40:60 (60% to the author)...
My book retails for $15 so I get $9, they get $6.

I also have found my sales are much (MUCH) greater at specialty stores (a gift stores, café) vs. Book stores .... and the Independent WAY outsells Borders.

Guess why? It is about exposure. At Borders the book is lost in a sea of books.
At the Café, I have the ONLY book there and a "captive" audience.

This particular book is non-erotic. So of course if a book were erotic material, one would target appropriate retail locations. Locally, we have a "safe sex" shop...but one should be creative. At book festivals and other types of events I can sell many more books at one go. (as an erotic author, perhaps that is not feasible if you are not "out of the closet"... using a pseudonym). At certain fairs and festivals if the table/booth fee is modest enough it is also worth while> the expense of the table/booth is offset by the fact that I get 100% of the book price.


note: I don't have a metal band. No band at all!

 

[sr71plt]

Thanks! All this is very encouraging and inspiring. I guess I meant print on demand when I said self publish. I was looking at a service that Amazon has and now realize there are a few to look at.

That would still be self-publishing. Oranges and apples on self-publishing and print-on-demand.

The category of publishing is determined by who selects and who pays for it (when the author self-selects and pays for it, it's self publishing). Next up is subsidy publishing ( the author and another person/business decide together to publish and share the costs). Regular publishing (the publisher selects and pays).

Print-on-demand is simply a method of producing a book. This is printing the book one up on a special copying machine as the demand for a copy is given. Print-run books are ones that are printed on a printing press at high volume (the smallest of the presses needing to do at least 300 copies for the process to be cost-effective). E-books are simply electronic set-ups and you can send off as many/few copies electronically as you wish.

Both mainstream publishers and self-publishers use all three methods of producing books (although mainstream publishers are only beginning to enter the e-book field).

 

[phillyinjun]

Thanks for all the suggestions, folks!

 

[PaperAutumn]

Personally, I don't believe in self-publishing. Not only does it feel like cheating, but in my heart of hearts I would know that, regardless of whether it was true or not, I wasn't good to publish a real book.

Like someone said, it's good for a keepsake for yourself, or if you wanted to write a sexy story for that special someone and give it to them as a present, but otherwise I definitely wouldn't recommend it.

But hey, to each their own

 

[slyc_willie]

Personally, I don't believe in self-publishing. Not only does it feel like cheating, but in my heart of hearts I would know that, regardless of whether it was true or not, I wasn't good to publish a real book.

Have you seen some of the tripe that gets published in the mainstream market these days? Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff out there, but there's also a lot of crap. There are authors who write topically, but not well, and that's the only reason they continue to be published.

Self-publishing, at the least, gives you more control over the polished copy that gets put out. Having had several short stories published mainstream (none of them erotica), I was rarely satisfied with the finished result once the editors chewed their way through it.

Self-publishing may be a bumpy shortcut, but at least you can drive the car yourself.

 

[THROBBS]

One thing that I have learned is that there are a LOT of "professionals" (in every industry) that are professionals only in the sense that they are paid.

As slyc_willie noted, there are landfills of horrible books being published by "real" publishers. Many publishers and retailers have become pussies (hate to use that word in a disparaging way). They are afraid. I was dismayed at the lack of knowledge and insight two buyers at Border Group displayed. And they are SPECIALIZED to the point they should know many more authors and trends than they do. I know what I want for my books and it isn't about the "norm" and how it sits on a shelf conveniently... which ultimately means it is lost as a uniform grain of sand in the desert of dry words and pictures.

If a book does not fit into their predefined categories they don't know what to do with it. Sad really.

So I will do it myself, and by God it will be good. (and sell)

 

[Boota]

Personally, I don't believe in self-publishing. Not only does it feel like cheating, but in my heart of hearts I would know that, regardless of whether it was true or not, I wasn't good to publish a real book.

Like someone said, it's good for a keepsake for yourself, or if you wanted to write a sexy story for that special someone and give it to them as a present, but otherwise I definitely wouldn't recommend it.

But hey, to each their own

I don't have exact numbers at my fingertips, but I've sold several thousand copies on my own, strictly through word of mouth. To me, that says I'm good enough. I wonder what I could do if I had a publisher behind me. The thing is, the stuff I write scares mainstream publishers. They hate it. My query letters were returned with insults written in the margin about how horrible a person my character is and how horrible a person I am for writing about him. But my readers overwhelmingly have loved the guy. Publishers and agents just don't like taking chances. It's much worse than the music business. In the music business at least it's fairly easy to get a demo heard. And in music, different is good. Not so with publishing. The time commitment to read a book negates their ability and willingness to give new people a shot without a champion on the inside fighting for him or her.

John Grisham is now one of the top selling authors in the world, but he had to prove himself by self-publishing. That's kind of my approach. These are my "demo tapes".

Don't let self-publishing and self-promotion feel like cheating. If you have something to say and you believe in it, give it a shot. See what you can do. There really is no limit. I self-produced a CD in my spare bedroom on a $13.00 budget and made the Grammy ballot in 2006. (Missed a nomination by two fucking votes!)

 

[THROBBS]

Word, Boota.

 

[sr71plt]

Let's try to drive this stake into the heart of the John Grisham story one more time. John Grisham didn't self-publish. He had a (small-time) agent for his first book, A Time to Kill, who sold it to a small press, Wynwood Press for 1989 publication. Grisham bought 1,000 copies of the first 5,000-copy run--but did so by his own decision to sell some directly at, he says, garden club meetings, and to give out to friends. (He could afford it; he wasn't a struggling writer--he was a successful lawyer--and a less successful politician.)

Grisham has said as recently as five weeks ago (yes, I see him around and about--he's a near neighbor) that he still has over 700 copies of that book in storage that he didn't sell before his franchise took off with the sale of the movie rights of The Firm to Paramount even before the book was launched by Doubleday (which had turned down A Time to Kill) in 1991. (He says he plotted this second book off of a Writer's Digest formula for writing a suspense novel.) Of course those first editions of A Time to Kill he has in storage are worth a small fortune now.

It's urban myths like this that keep the self-publishing concept rosier than it should be--preying on the hopes of those not willing to take a good hard look at the possibilities.

Publishing in any form is more about marketing than either writing the book or getting it printed (or set up for e-booking, which is the more lucrative field for erotica). If you can market the book all by yourself to a conclusion that satisfies you, it's something to consider. If not, urban myths aside, your chances of making more than you spent on the project or reaching more than a handful of readers (most of whom are related to you in some fashion) are miniscule.

 

[THROBBS]

I don't read John Grisham. *shrug*

The point is, it CAN be done. It should be done.

Even with a "real" publisher, you still have the same marketing hurdles. Surprisingly, the publishers do not "dump" a lot of money into marketing, as an author you still have to work at it.

No myth. It is time consuming and requires some investment/commitment.

 

[sr71plt]

No you don't have the "same" marketing hurdles with a mainstream publisher. They not only know where to market the books they publish, they know how to do it and how big that market is. And the claim that publishers don't put money into marketing is another one of those urban myths. This myth seems to be fed by those who have had experience with publishers who are bottom-of-the-barrel to begin with. A publisher is in the business to stay alive and make money; no good publisher will invest in a book project they don't plan to sell to profitability (and this is called marketing). It's a common conceit of writers that they think they know how to do everything in publishing just because they've written a manuscript. Writing it is probably the easiest step in the process--and getting it sold involves talents and experience that are different from knowing how to write well.

That's what I don't like about the self-publishing hype. It's not that self-publishing isn't sometimes a good choice--it's because it gets blown all out of proportion on how well it's going to work for most--and that somehow writing a book means you are some sort of brilliant publishing giant.

But no need to argue it. Each of us is responsible for our own decisions, and if the majority of self-publishers want to be steeped in self-delusion, that's their lookout.

 

[THROBBS]

I said... they don't "dump" money into marketing... especially a new author.

The same hurdles are still there... teh publisher may jump a few FOR you or boost you over.

 

[sr71plt]

I said... they don't "dump" money into marketing... especially a new author.

The same hurdles are still there... teh publisher may jump a few FOR you or boost you over.

No, again, the "same" hurdles aren't there at all. They've already researched and tested the markets for your book genre/topic. You may have researched the market (but very unlikely as well--and objectively and eyes-open--as they have), but it's very unlikely you've tested it and have lists of where the buyers are. And they can put your book in bookstores nationwide--which a self-publisher can't--and can much more easily get the book reviewed and on book festival programs. A mainstream publisher can also more cost-effectively publicize its line of book offerings than a self-publisher can do his/her single book.

A mainstream publisher that has contracted your book thus has far, far fewer--and lower--marketing hurdles than the self-publisher does (otherwise they wouldn't have contracted your book). When all else fails, try common sense--preferably with out all of the glittery stars.

Again, it's not that I don't think there's a place for self-publishing, but that it gets hyped to heights that far outstrip reality and common sense.

 

[THROBBS]

wrong.

 

[THROBBS]

Besides.... the markets they (the publishers) sell in are fast becoming passé.

Most companies are in business to "make money".... a few automobile companies are currently losing it. There was a time when car companies were run by "car people", who knew cars. Use dto be Publishers were run by "book people". Less so now.. they are, as you point out "marketers".... and surprisingly not all that swift, either.

I am using common sense and experience and wisdom.
And have my book to market WAY faster than a Publisher could/would have...they have to "Study" it.


Of course it's not for everybody.

 

[sr71plt]

As I say, the self-delusion just can't be stopped.

 

[THROBBS]

As I say, the self-delusion just can't be stopped.

Then stop trying.