Security on Planes

[Dhalgren]

I was on a plane a few months ago…only to watch in horror two grown men break out into a huge fistfight. They were attacking each other over the seats and in the aisles…. causing children to cry. The two female flight attendants were absolutely helpless as the testosterone ran through the two fighting men. A few male passengers that happened to be rather muscular were able to subdue these two “gentlemen” only after this had gone on for 10 minutes. They had to physically hold the men down until the plane landed.

The whole entire time..all I kept thinking was that if they can put a security cop inside of a fucking Kmart..armed with handcuffs, a club and some mace…why don’t planes carry such an individual?


How would you feel if you entered a plane and found a security cop standing there on duty?

 

[Gilly Bean]

I think that's an excellent idea.

 

[shadowsource]

no question -

Our plane security is pathetic, partly for reasons of corporate greed (they don't want to pay for security folks on or off the plane, and prefer to hire minimum-wage people who may or may not care) and partly because we, the passengers, are too hurried, too important, to put up with any delays. I'm extremly guilty of this. It's typically American to decide that the security is a joke anyway, so any measures taken merely waste our time. We might wish to rethink that attitude. At least knives are not going to be allowed as carry-ons anymore.

I've flown all over the world and the very best boarding searches I've ever encountered were 1) the Philippines, after Aquino's takeover, at the airport where her husband had been murdered and 2) India, just before the highly-secured India Day celebration. We should ask ourselves in six months whether our boarding experiences are fitting for access to a weapon that could destroy the damned Pentagon and the entire WTC.

 

[Barb Dwyer]

To answer your question: I wouldn't mind seeing a formally trained law enforcement officer, e.g. a federal marshall. However, I would not be pleased, encouraged or feel safe and secure if I saw a rent-a-cop/security officer.


Just a thought here...

While it is a given that we will increase security in our airports and on our aircraft once again, I am wondering if the following suggestion has ever been thought of or given any consideration whatsoever.

Let me preface my idea by acknowledging that it will cost a great deal of money to accomplish but, in my opinion, would be well worth the investment.

Why don't aircraft manufacturers such as Boeing or Airbus or McDonnell Douglas, etc., consider a radical design shift. I think it would behoove them to create a bulkhead (wall) separating the cockpit from the rest of the airplane. This design would mean that the pilot, co-pilot and navigators would enter the cockpit through a separate outside door. They would have their own bathroom and refrigerator. No need for the flight attendants.

This way, the physical barrier would make it impossible for any hijackers to break into the cockpit to take over in-flight.

Naturally it would be cost-prohibitive to retrofit current aircraft- or at least entire fleets. But why not design new planes with this feature? Does this make sense or am I overlooking something important?

Naturally, a flight attendant would need to be trained in mechanical and technical instruction for the rest of the plane. This, in conjunction with federal marshals on every flight could go a long way to preventing future hijackings.

I need some feedback. Is it impossible? Would it work? Is it just stupid?

 

[Wizard]

I fly a few times a year and it would bother me to see it at first but then to think he or she was there for our protection then I say bring it on...............It might be time now to do something like that....
I heard on tv they were talking about that.....if it would really help out................

 

[Laurel]

I'm with ya, Barb. In one case, I read that the terrorists were killing stewardesses one by one to lure the pilots out of the cockpit. THE PILOTS SHOULD NOT LEAVE THE COCKPIT, PERIOD. When trouble starts, their main priority should be landing the plane as quickly as possible.

From what I understand, the door between the cockpit and the rest of the plane on most commercial jets is about as secure as the bathroom door. Barb's idea of completely separating the cockpit would cut off passenger access.

I do think having some sort of security guard on the planes would not be such a bad idea, either - someone trained to handle any emergencies that come up. Unruly passengers. Robbers. Terrorists. A guy with handcuffs, a club, Mace, and direct communication to the ground - like Dhalgren suggested.

 

[lavender]

 

[Purple Haze]

Is it impossible? Would it work? Is it just stupid?

Best thing I've heard all day.

It's quite surprising in hindsight that an airliner could be taken over without a gun. Nobody will ever know exactly what went on inside these planes, but you'd think something as expensive and potentially dangerous would have some sort of competent security in place.

Here comes that bottom line again.

 

[Chuckus]

Many years ago, can't remember the time or date. But there used to be Sky Marshalls onboard planes. At one time, we did take the threat seriously. Maybe I am wrong on this one, but I think I remember it being in place at one point in time on all flights that were either Domestic or International flights departing from/arriving at or on US Airlines.

Lavendar said it exactly correct "They are simply told to meet demands. The reason for this is they NEVER expected something like this."

 

[HARDKOREBJ]

GOOD IDEA

i think it would be a good idea to have a guard orsomeone onboard trained like that.how about security cameras

 

[Guest]

same ideas. also they have gone about as far as they can with the current pressurized tubes affixed to swept wings. the bulkhead would be great, but how about a heavy security door to the cockpit, one that could only be opened freely from inside, and requires thumb prints to re open from outside. also a police officer with a projectile tayzer, a lelescopeing billyclub, mace, and a rubber shot shotgun.

 

[Dillinger]

These are all good ideas and I hope these and ideas like them are given serious consideration by the government and the FAA and the airlines. I fear however that the costs involve will ultimately give us some watered down version of any significant security.

 

[shadowsource]

Because

We won't want to pay the cost of the security measures. We should, but we won't.

 

[BlondGirl]

I have a few suggestions.

1.) Armed security on EVERY commercial flight involving the US. Not an open target but plainclothed and as nonidentifiable as possible.

2.) Every airport employee needs to be trained in weapons awareness and hostage situations. If the prison system can do it for everyone involved with them, so can the air industry. (recognizing and being able to deal with a shank [homemade weapon] would have made the difference here).

3.) Panic buttons need to be installed in various places on each aircraft. At least 4--one for each pilot and one in each galley or where the flight attendants sit. These need to not have lights or for there to be any indication that these have been pushed by ANYONE anywhere on the aircraft. These should send a signal to the ground that the aircraft is compromised. Ground people can be aware then that something is wrong and PAY ATTENTION. f possible, the depressing of the button should be designed to give the location.

4.) Every passenger AND employee on the aircraft should be videoed before entering the aircraft. Upon entrance to the terminal-tunnel or heading out to the steps, the ticket should be held up in front of the camera and the person's image recorded from 3 sides. Individually and systematically.

I am not a genious and am sure there are many many other measures. I would happily pay extra for such things.

 

[Bigdog]

There is already in place the Federal Air Marshal program, it just needs to be massively expanded.

http://www.faa.gov/apa/Factsheet/2000/fact4Aug.htm

Bulkheads on current planes could be reinforced with Kevlar/stainless mesh (can't be cut) under a layer of polycarbonate sheet (bulletproof). Add in electronic locks, the whole retrofit would weigh less than one passenger and cost less than 10k per plane.

Ok, so L.A. to Boston would no longer be on special for $400 round trip. I would much rather pay triple the price and know I'm going to get there in one piece.

 

[Dillinger]

OK...

Now where do suggestions like this go where they can actually do some good? I highly doubt the FAA or airlines read this bulletin board?

Anyone know of a web site or snail mail address where one can send in suggestions like this and have them read by people who can actually take them forward to where they can be considered?

 

[plasticman33]

There is already in place the Federal Air Marshal program, it just needs to be massively expanded.

http://www.faa.gov/apa/Factsheet/2000/fact4Aug.htm

Bulkheads on current planes could be reinforced with Kevlar/stainless mesh (can't be cut) under a layer of polycarbonate sheet (bulletproof). Add in electronic locks, the whole retrofit would weigh less than one passenger and cost less than 10k per plane.

Ok, so L.A. to Boston would no longer be on special for $400 round trip. I would much rather pay triple the price and know I'm going to get there in one piece.

Send this suggestion to your congessman and your senators!

 

[Guest]

How would you feel if you entered a plane and found a security cop standing there on duty?

Though I may be choosing my sister's path in life of never steeping foot on a plane, I have to agree with Gilly Bean that it would be a great idea to have security officers on flights. It seems like common sense to have them aboard as staff.

 

[Dhalgren]

Yeah..it's terrible to be afraid to fly now.


I've been in some really hellish situations regarding planes...but nothing compares to what these poor souls had to endure.


Makes me absolutely sick..

 

[Dillinger]

I'll be flying week after next. Personally I believe, at least for the next few months, that flying will be safer then anytime in history.

And again - some wonderful suggestions here - I'd like to recommend to anyone with such suggestions to post them somewhere they will actually do some good - write your senator, congressman, the FAA, the airlines...

 

[Dhalgren]

That's exactly what I did..yup!

I'm a letter writer.

Wrote letters to stop war in Nicaragua, to free Mandala, to abolish apartied in South Africa....and many other things that involve Crime Against Humanity.


It helps; it works and it's important.


Write a letter to a Firefighter that has to witness more than anyone ever should.


Many people need human energy to support their weary soul.

Ever walk into a couple's house and *know* even through their smiles that there was a fight in this room before you got there and you can feel the negativity?


This is ten fold..


And the only thing that heals that is just the opposite.