Second Person Point of View

[KillerMuffin]

There are bunches of stories out there from this particular perspective. I know of three of us (including me) who really hate it. One person who bouncingly adores it (see Cat's thread on the feedback board). What do ya'll think about it? If you received a second person story as an editor, would you recommend they put it in first or third person or would you edit as is? I realize that this would depend on the story itself.

I edited two well written stories whose only visible problem was that they were in second person. I let the author know about my objections with second person, that it was me, not his writing. I also noted that most people I know don't like second person.

I know why I don't like it, any good reason why others here don't like it?

 

[Weird Harold]

As an editor, I would point out my personal preference for other viewpoints, and that second person limits the appeal.

There are a few stories that work best from second person POV, so I would have to consider how the story works from that viewpoint before recommending a chang in POV.

I try not to impose my style and preferences on the stories I edit. That's not always easy, but I do try.

 

[Guest]

Second Person? Genuine Question Muff!

What is the second? Is it THOU? Were these stories written by Quakers?

BTW my reg name and password did not come up so I thought that I'd use another name. No need for any of the self rightous to comment.

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Second Person? Genuine Question Muff!

What is the second? Is it THOU? Were these stories written by Quakers?

Thee and Thou are "second person familiar" Second person point of view is "You came into the room", "You felt despondent", etc. Approprate for telling a drunk how much fun he had, but it limits the appeal of a story for general consumption because only a few readers will "connect" with the particulars of the 'You' refered to.

 

[Laurel]

Second Person POV, to me, often comes across less as storytelling and more as a fantasy sequence written specifically for a certain person. For that reason, it loses me - it leaves me out of the action. I'm not the friend to whom the author is telling the story (first person) nor am I a casual observer to the story (third person). I'm the man/woman/lover to whom the author is offering his/her "hard cock" or "dripping pussy". If the author talks of stroking my "jet black hair" or handling my "massive tool", my first instinct is to say, "Hey, that's not me!" I then withdraw from the story, and the illusion is shattered.

That's not to say Second Person POV can't be used effectively. Many great writers have done so. It's just really, really tricky. Authors should have a strong reason for using this POV - they should ask themselves, "Would this really be more effective in 2nd POV, or would it work better - or even equally as good - from a different angle?" Good fiction, IMHO, draws the reader in. It's easy to lose the reader in 2nd Person POV, so I think it should be used sparingly and with a purpose.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Exactly. I don't want someone telling me what I'm doing, how I'm reacting, what I'm saying. Because I'm not. Writing in second person almost always puts me off. As a casual reader, I usually won't read past the first paragraph.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Second Person?

Thee and Thou are "second person familiar" Second person point of view is "You came into the room", "You felt despondent", etc.

Thanks WH, you certainly have the answers!

Disappointed in you Muffy, you might have answered, you were online!

BTW, my reg name & password have returned but I wanted to troll KM.

Answer to original question, now I know what we are talking about: Have not read any so no opinion but, should I ever do so I will e-mail you Muffy. Oh! NO! I'd give myself away!
Curses!

 

[KillerMuffin]

Well, actually, I looked at your post, couldn't make heads nor tails of it, even upside down. Went over my head, next time aim lower, where us vertically perfect people hang out. I still don't get it.

Um. Thou is how some people misspell though?

 

[Guest]

Thou dust not comprehend?

Well, actually, I looked at your post, couldn't make heads nor tails of it, even upside down. Went over my head, next time aim lower, where us vertically perfect people hang out. I still don't get it.

Um. Thou is how some people misspell though?

When you asked about 2nd person, I could only think of when I learned other languages and we spoke of the 2nd as THEE just like old english or the Quakers. I'm sure that thee understood. Just teasing eh?

You must take into account that some of us are a little grammatically challanged!

 

[KillerMuffin]

OOOOOOHHHHH I get it now. The other language I speak doesn't use their word for "you." It's a terribly familiar form of address, usually reserved between lovey dovey couples. POV didn't get into it. It's either first or third.

 

[Guest]

I like reading a lot of experimental fiction and second person is quite an experimental technique. I like it if it's done well.

When I'm reading, I don't have a problem becoming the protagonist, as long as I like the character and can feel some connection with them, even if the only similarity between us is that we're alive and we have emotions. The specific details like height, weight, hair or eye colour, race, gender or even species don't bother me. I would find it really limiting to be tied down to only identifying with specific types. When I watched 'ET' as a kid, it didn't matter that I didn't have a long giraffe neck, freakish big eyes and a forefinger that lit up in the dark (although how cool would THAT be?). For the duration of that film I WAS that soppy little alien. DCL once said something in a thread about why guys like lesbian scenes in porn films, even when there are no men present in the scenario. I think what he basically said was that the man watching the film probably still "becomes" one of those characters, getting to briefly imagine what it might be like to experience sex as a woman. I think you could say the same about reading fiction. You get to experience things through the characters that you never would in real life.

I can understand, though, how people would find second person irritating. It can sometimes come across as if the writer's dictating to you. "You WILL slide your 14" olive-coloured circumcised cock between your 59-year-old, 6-foot-tall, Portuguese wife's pierced labia. That's an ORDER!"

One of my stories is in second person but it's written as though the narrator is talking to a specific character:

"Close your eyes, Rebecca, and imagine this. A beach. Some filthy, yellow beach in Spain... Puerto Rico or...

or...

BRAZIL. Yes.

Can you see it? Do you smell the Sea? Can you feel the gentlest of salt breezes tickling through your raven hair?

Good.

Now, picture the woman. She is dark skinned and sullen. Wild and beautiful. She sits on a crumbling wall, her pretty hazel eyes screwed up in the Sun's glare....." etcetera.

Would you find this less intrusive, do you think, as though you're reading someones private love letters or would it still put you off reading a story?

 

[Guest]

lalalalala lalalalala lalalalala lalalalala lalalalala lalalalala lalalalala lalalallala

 

[Whispersecret]

Yes, Roger, that would be far less annoying to me. I could even get into a story like that. There seems to be a fine line between the author inviting me to be that person and telling me I'm that person. As the reader, I want the choice, and too often in unskilled hands, the use of second person subtly takes away my choice.

 

[alexander tzara]

Ah, good. I've noticed quite a lot of people saying they couldn't relate to second person and I wondered if that was across the board and if it was like a kind of blanket rule. I guess that because second person is probably the most novel / unusual person to use it jars more when you're reading it and there's more chance of it drawing you out of the story and making you notice the craft (buggering up the old suspension of disbelief). It's probably an unwise choice for you to make as a writer unless there's a good reason you want to use it.

I've never read any erotica in the second person future tense - "you will kiss her pale throat" etcetera - although I've seen a couple of mainstream / experimental stories like that. I think that'd be just too weird. I would like to see more experimental erotica though. There's some interesting experimental "porn" by people like Kathy Acker, and 'The Butcher' by Alina Reyes is quite surreal / dreamlike in places.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I don't like it because most people who write it don't use it very well. It's one of those "art" mediums that's extrememly difficult to wield, when done well it's a masterpiece. However, it's usually not done well, and it's just there when the story is finished with it. It seems like it's the beginning stage of erotica or something, mostly those who write it are beginners. All of my first stuff was written in second person. I am not one of those people who can use second person. Ewwww, this stuff reeked.