Second battle of Arras 09/04/17 - 16/05/17 285k Casualties

[hobbit.]

Second Battle of Arras, lead to over 285,000 casualties, Sadly though not a one of them was a reality TV star.

 

[oggbashan]

Second Battle of Arras, lead to over 285,000 casualties, Sadly though not a one of them was a reality TV star.

But the Americans, including Wonder Woman, really won the battle - according to Hollywood.

Even though they weren't in France then.

PS. John Wayne would have won it on his own.

The reality is that everyone involved lost. Whether it eventually led to the German collapse? Unlikely at that stage but it bled the troops on both sides dry and for what? A few yards of mud.

 

[hobbit.]

Unlikely at that stage but it bled the troops on both sides dry and for what? A few yards of mud.

thats kind of the narative of the first world war though. Pointless.

Audi Murphy could've won without even being there, AND probably got a purple heart!

 

[oggbashan]

thats kind of the narative of the first world war though. Pointless.

Audi Murphy could've won without even being there, AND probably got a purple heart!

You have reminded me of the war memorial in my Australian school.

Six brothers went to that school and are remembered on the boards for academic and sporting achievements.

But five brothers are on the First World War memorial board - three dead at Gallipoli and two on the Western Front at Passchendaele.

The sixth and last brother survived Passchendaele and was my father's friend and office colleague.

He was a civil servant during WW2, involved with the supply chain for the fighting in the Kokoda trail on New Guinea. He was worried that the supplies weren't getting through so accompanied a column heading for the front line.

About seven miles from the front they were ambushed by the Japanese. When a soldier was killed beside him, he grabbed the dead man's Bren gun and, with others, held off the Japanese until reinforcements arrived. He personally is thought to have killed about twenty Japanese.

But the Australian Army now had a problem. he was a civilian yet had killed enemy troops. Should they court-martial him, or give him a medal. In reality, they couldn't do either because he was a civilian. But his defence lawyer claimed that since he was wearing his Australian slouch hat from WW1 he WAS in uniform been though he had left the Army reserve in 1928.

The Army authorities did nothing. But the serving troops made sure he was never without a beer in his hand all the time he stayed in New Guinea.

 

[haventdonethat]

Vimy Ridge

I think the Canadian divisions did well on the opening days at Vimy Ridge but I am a bit biased. If you can call almost 3,000 dead as well done from a country of only 7 million.
They accomplished their objectives, thanks to very detailed planning alongside the British engineers and labour battalions, but had no definitive orders on what to do afterwards. They could have done so much more after the German retreat.
Was it the coalescing factor of Canadian self identity that so many think it was? Not really, but it gave good press to so many dead for a few yards of mud.

 

[stickygirl]

I think the Canadian divisions did well on the opening days at Vimy Ridge but I am a bit biased. If you can call almost 3,000 dead from a country of only 7 million.
They accomplished their objectives, thanks to very detailed planning alongside the British engineers and labour battalions, but had no definitive orders on what to do afterwards. They could have done so much more after the German retreat.
Was it the coalescing factor of Canadian self identity that so many think it was? Not really, but it gave good press to so many dead for a few yards of mud.

Didn't have inbred officers like the Brits. Well done Canada... is there a collective name for Canadians... have I gone blank? Is it Canks?

 

[haventdonethat]

Didn't have inbred officers like the Brits. Well done Canada... is there a collective name for Canadians... have I gone blank? Is it Canks?

Canuck is a nickname for a Canadian — sometimes bearing a negative implication, more often wielded with pride. It goes back at least as far as the 1830s, and its meaning has changed over time.

 

[thør]

But the Americans, including Wonder Woman, really won the battle - according to Hollywood.

Even though they weren't in France then.

Some were there as members of the Canadian Expeditionary Force...

 

[haventdonethat]

Some were there as members of the Canadian Expeditionary Force...

You are correct. About 40,000 Americans enlisted in the CEF.

 

[oggbashan]

You are correct. About 40,000 Americans enlisted in the CEF.

And we in the UK are grateful to the American pilots in the Battle oF Britain.

 

[ishtat]

595 of 2937 Battle of Britain pilots were foreigners - 20%.

They included 145 Poles, 130 N Zealanders, 112 Canadians, 88 Czechs, 30 Australians, and about 10 each of Americans and French.

It is a bit tricky to be definite about numbers because some of them declared themselves to be of different nationalities to get in, and the Brits did not say 'no' to any experienced pilot.

The Czechs and the Poles were both the most experienced and the most successful.

My great uncle Jack served (in Kent) as a leader of ground crew to a squadron almost entirely composed of Czechs throughout B of B. Why? because both he and they could communicate clearly - in German!

 

[oggbashan]

The Polish pilots were considered mad and dangerous because they hated the Nazis so much they would attack head-on and if their ammo ran out - they would ram.

 

[hobbit.]

The Polish pilots were considered mad and dangerous because they hated the Nazis so much they would attack head-on and if their ammo ran out - they would ram.

stereotypically Poles are mental - which is why i like them. Had some good nights in the Polish club. There was, for a number of years, A white Eagle Club near here. Last year I lost a good friend, ex British Army Colonel, ''fisher of men'', got 'interrogated' in Korea, had Polish roots - mad as a hatter, but a throughly decent chap.

Arras - home of the first creeping artillery barrage i believe.

 

[xxyyxx]

Second Battle of Arras, lead to over 285,000 casualties, Sadly though not a one of them was a reality TV star.

And the vast majority of the British men killed and wounded never had the vote. They got it with women over 30 in 1918.

 

[FL30]

Second Battle of Arras, lead to over 285,000 casualties, Sadly though not a one of them was a reality TV star.

another battle with thousands of lives lost for absolutely nothing

what a waste of human life

 

[thør]

...

Grandpa was in France with the CEF at that time. He made it back.

 

[hobbit.]

Grandpa was in France with the CEF at that time. He made it back.

Mine was in France etc, apparently came back as what would today be called mad as a fucking hatter or PTSD, was then sent to ireland after the war..... went completely psycho . lost his first born child while in hospital being treated for machine gun wounds 'caught' during the war. And as has been said by many in this thread - for what?

 

[oggbashan]

Most of my family were too young to be in the First World War, although they were affected. My father's family had their home destroyed by a Zeppelin bomb in 1915.

My eldest aunt was engaged to an RFC pilot who was shot down in 1915. Her second fiancée was a 2nd Lieutenant who was killed during the German Spring offensive of 1918.

During WW2 only my youngest uncle was in the Army. His elder brothers were in the War Office, and my father was heavily involved during the supply chain for D-Day. My Aunt's family had their home destroyed in the 1940 blitz and after the war lived in a prefab for about a decade.

My father didn't see his family from April 1944 until October because he was under strict security. He was classified as a BIGOT - one of the few people who knew beforehand that the invasion as going to Normandy.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Most of my family were too young to be in the First World War, although they were affected. My father's family had their home destroyed by a Zeppelin bomb in 1915.

My eldest aunt was engaged to an RFC pilot who was shot down in 1915. Her second fiancée was a 2nd Lieutenant who was killed during the German Spring offensive of 1918.

During WW2 only my youngest uncle was in the Army. His elder brothers were in the War Office, and my father was heavily involved during the supply chain for D-Day. My Aunt's family had their home destroyed in the 1940 blitz and after the war lived in a prefab for about a decade.

My father didn't see his family from April 1944 until October because he was under strict security. He was classified as a BIGOT - one of the few people who knew beforehand that the invasion as going to Normandy.

Quite the family history, Og!

I do have one question. I can see your father being locked down prior to the invasion. But the Allies were in Holland by October; why the extension?

 

[oggbashan]

Quite the family history, Og!

I do have one question. I can see your father being locked down prior to the invasion. But the Allies were in Holland by October; why the extension?

Because he was working 7 days a week to keep the supplies going to Europe...

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Ah. A belated thanks to him, then.

 

[HisArpy]

...for what?

So you wouldn't be speaking German. That's what.


It wasn't about the sq meters of mud. Or the lives lost. It was about standing up and saying; no way Jose.


A mindset we seem to have lost these days of pajama parties at work, minimum latte breaks, and "equity" as a stand-in for justice.

 

[hobbit.]

So you wouldn't be speaking German. That's what.


It wasn't about the sq meters of mud. Or the lives lost. It was about standing up and saying; no way Jose.


A mindset we seem to have lost these days of pajama parties at work, minimum latte breaks, and "equity" as a stand-in for justice.

for someone who claims to be smart, you take being a retarded wanker to whole new depths.

You do realise this was a battle in the first world war not the second?

 

[JohnnySavage]

During WWI, my relations were digging coal and running 'shine.

 

[HisArpy]

for someone who claims to be smart, you take being a retarded wanker to whole new depths.

You do realise this was a battle in the first world war not the second?

So, are you telling us that WWI didn't involve Germany attempting to conquer the world after assassinating Archduke Ferdinand? Or, that if the Battle of Arras hadn't stopped the German advance, you wouldn't be a German prole right now?

Or do you think that Germany couldn't figure out how to get across the Channel because it's the "English" channel and they're "Germans"? Because boats hadn't been invented by then or something?