tinylittlegnat
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Schwarzenegger slams GOP stimulus hypocrisy and says he is grateful for stimulus
- Thread starter tinylittlegnat
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Yeah and that dipshit Pawlenty on MTP today slammed the jobs creation and Gregory asked him if he didn't need the 12 thousand jobs created in Minnesota as a direct result of stimulus.
I guess he's an idiot.
http://wcco.com/local/pawlenty.federal.stimulus.2.1509033.html
I guess he's an idiot.
http://wcco.com/local/pawlenty.federal.stimulus.2.1509033.html
tinylittlegnat
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In other words he is a republican? We already knew that.
RightField
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The state employee unions have very lucrative deals that allow them to retire in middle age with almost full-time pay benefits for the rest of their lives and the state can't afford them any longer. The "gift" from the democrats delayed the day when there will have to be a reconning of these unaffordable benefits by giving Arnie a few billion extra bucks to keep the state solvent for a little while longer. All it did was delay the inevitable. I'm sure that he's thankful.
KRCummings
Uh...
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Wouldn't matter who was in charge out there, they'd be all for every dollar they could get I couldn't blame them. What an incredible mess that state is.
If he was a democrat, he'd be taking it up the ass from labor unions, trial lawyers and "undocumented immigrants".
And people say there's no difference between the parties.
BigGator5
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tinylittlegnat
aggressive progressive
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Thats a load of crap. There are conservative republicans and less conservative republicans. They are all conservative but to different degrees.
I love how conservatives have abandoned Bush and McCain and others who are unpopular by saying they were progressives in the republican party. It shows a conservatives true colors that they are willing to throw their former leaders to the lions if it will keep them popular.
trysail
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http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111843426
A Prison Guard Union With Political Muscle
In three decades, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association has become one of the most powerful political forces in California. The union has contributed millions of dollars to support "three strikes" and other laws that lengthen sentences and increase parole sanctions. It donated $1 million to Wilson after he backed the three strikes law.
And the result for the union has been dramatic. Since the laws went into effect and the inmate population boomed, the union grew from 2,600 officers to 45,000 officers. Salaries jumped: In 1980, the average officer earned $15,000 a year; today, one in every 10 officers makes more than $100,000 a year.
Lance Corcoran, spokesman for the union, says it does what is best for its members.
"We have advocated successfully for our members," he said.
But he disputes that the union has purposefully tried to increase the prison population.
"The notion that we are some prison industrial complex, or that we are recruiting felons or trying to change laws, is a misnomer," he said.
Money And Influence
Campaign records, however, show much of the funding to promote and push for the passage of the laws came from a political action committee the union created. It is run out of a group called Crime Victims United of California.
Its director, Harriet Salarno, says the committee is independent from the union. But a review of the PAC's financial records shows the PAC has not received a donation from another group besides the union since 2004.
Corcoran does not deny that the two are closely connected.
"We support a number of victims' rights groups," he said.
When asked why the correctional officers union is involved in victims' rights at all, Corcoran said: "There are people that think that there's some sort of ulterior motive, but the reality is we simply want to make sure [the victims'] voices are heard."
But Corcoran acknowledges that the union has benefited from the increase in the prison population after these laws passed.
"We've had the opportunity to grow," Corcoran says, "and that has brought with it both success and criticism."
Secret Dealings With The Governor
Woodford says she stepped down as secretary of the corrections department when she found out that the union had been going on behind her back to negotiate directly with the governor's office.
"The union is incredibly powerful," Woodford says.
Former Secretary Roderick Hickman resigned for the same reason in February 2006.
"The biggest problem that I had was the relationship that I had with the union," Hickman says.
Hickman says the union was able to control the department's policy decisions, including undermining efforts to divert offenders from prison and reduce the prison population.
"Maybe I was just impatient," he says, "or it wasn't going to go fast enough, but [the department] is still in the same place I left it, with an over $8 billion budget. Now it's over $10 billion."
Today, 70 percent of that budget goes to pay salaries and benefits to the union and staff. Just 5 percent of the budget goes to education and vocational programs — the kind of programs that study after study in the past 10 years has found will keep inmates from returning to prison.
Shop Talk: A Chance To Cross Race Lines
From the instant you walk through the metal doors of the mill and cabinetry workshop at Folsom, you get a different feeling from other parts of the prison. In the shop on a recent day, a group of black, white and Latino inmates are bent over a table, talking to each other, discussing measurements for a conference table.
"When we're down here, we put all the politics to the side," says inmate Derrick Poole as he works on the table's legs. "It gives us a place to go where we can we can get out of the prison politics gang, where we don't get along, where we don't socialize outside our race. We socialize outside our race here."
Poole is spending nine years at Folsom for drug possession with intent to sell. In his life, he has been released from prison at least six times that he can remember. It hasn't worked out well.
"When I got out, you kind of lose your social skills," Poole said. "You get used to segregating yourself. You already weren't learned on the street. Then you come in here and you're not learning, and now your mind is more hollow, more empty."
Poole got very lucky this time, beating out hundreds of others to land a spot among just 27 inmates in the cabinetry program. When he's done, Poole will be an accredited woodworker with his GED.
Most of the men in Folsom won't be so fortunate. Just across from the cabinetry shop, program administrator and school Principal Jean Bracy sits in her makeshift office next to the welding class. She knows the statistics by heart.
"I have 1,797 inmates who read below the 9th grade level; 394 of those read below the 4th grade level," Bracy says. "When we put them back out on the streets, they're not employable."
And back on the streets is where 85 percent of all California's inmates are going one day when their sentences run out, regardless of whether they spent their time in prison dealing drugs and running a gang or learning how to weld.
Bracy only has a handful of vocational programs left, enough to reach less than 10 percent of Folsom's inmates — and the state plans to cut even that in half in the next few weeks.
"I think this is the worst I've ever seen it," Bracy says.
'A Merry-Go-Round'
It only costs her about $100,000 to run these programs — not even a blip in a $10 billion-a-year prison budget. But, says Bracy, the programs are always the first to go. Sometimes she almost feels like giving up.
"It's just not cost-effective to throw men and women in prison and then do nothing with them," she said. "And shame on us for thinking that's safety. It's not public safety. You lock them up and do nothing with them. They go out not even equal to what they came in but worse."
The numbers bear that out, with 90,000 inmates returning to California's prisons every year.
But compare that to the Braille program here at Folsom. Inmates are learning to translate books for the blind. In 20 years, not a single inmate who has been part of the program has ever returned to prison. This year, the program has been cut back to 19 inmates.
Out on the prison yard, one of the oldtimers, an inmate named Ed Steward — or "Lefty" — sits in old chair in the only bit of shade on the dusty dirt field. He watches the inmates stand in groups by their race and shakes his head.
"Nowadays, you know, the kids are just coming through this like it's a merry-go-round," he said. "Like there's nothing to it."
Most of these inmates here on this yard aren't here for serious or violent crimes. The number of inmates incarcerated in California's prisons for murder, assault or rape has been relatively unchanged in two decades. The difference is this yard is now packed with drug dealers and drug users, car thieves and shoplifters who stole something worth more than $500.
What Used To Be
But all across this prison are signs of what this place once was — when administrators came from New York and Texas to find out how Folsom kept its violence so low and its inmates from coming back.
There's the deserted shop where inmates used to train to be butchers; it was closed when the prison couldn't afford to remove the asbestos.
Its thriving medical facility was shuttered when it couldn't keep up with thousands of new inmates.
And hovering above the prison is China Hill, a now-barren field where inmates once trained to become landscapers. The prison can't afford to pay the teacher.
Warden Michael Evans can see China Hill just outside his office. Its meaning is not lost on him.
"If I have a dog and I put him in a cage and I beat [him] regularly, ultimately [it] will bite me when I open that door," he said.
After three decades working in corrections, Evans says he has come to one conclusion.
"I think that prisons should be a place where an individual has the opportunity to change if they choose to," he said, "and we move forward from there."
For now, California is at a standstill, unable to find the money to move forward with a different strategy, unable to move backward to a time when it didn't need one.
A Prison Guard Union With Political Muscle
In three decades, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association has become one of the most powerful political forces in California. The union has contributed millions of dollars to support "three strikes" and other laws that lengthen sentences and increase parole sanctions. It donated $1 million to Wilson after he backed the three strikes law.
And the result for the union has been dramatic. Since the laws went into effect and the inmate population boomed, the union grew from 2,600 officers to 45,000 officers. Salaries jumped: In 1980, the average officer earned $15,000 a year; today, one in every 10 officers makes more than $100,000 a year.
Lance Corcoran, spokesman for the union, says it does what is best for its members.
"We have advocated successfully for our members," he said.
But he disputes that the union has purposefully tried to increase the prison population.
"The notion that we are some prison industrial complex, or that we are recruiting felons or trying to change laws, is a misnomer," he said.
Money And Influence
Campaign records, however, show much of the funding to promote and push for the passage of the laws came from a political action committee the union created. It is run out of a group called Crime Victims United of California.
Its director, Harriet Salarno, says the committee is independent from the union. But a review of the PAC's financial records shows the PAC has not received a donation from another group besides the union since 2004.
Corcoran does not deny that the two are closely connected.
"We support a number of victims' rights groups," he said.
When asked why the correctional officers union is involved in victims' rights at all, Corcoran said: "There are people that think that there's some sort of ulterior motive, but the reality is we simply want to make sure [the victims'] voices are heard."
But Corcoran acknowledges that the union has benefited from the increase in the prison population after these laws passed.
"We've had the opportunity to grow," Corcoran says, "and that has brought with it both success and criticism."
Secret Dealings With The Governor
Woodford says she stepped down as secretary of the corrections department when she found out that the union had been going on behind her back to negotiate directly with the governor's office.
"The union is incredibly powerful," Woodford says.
Former Secretary Roderick Hickman resigned for the same reason in February 2006.
"The biggest problem that I had was the relationship that I had with the union," Hickman says.
Hickman says the union was able to control the department's policy decisions, including undermining efforts to divert offenders from prison and reduce the prison population.
"Maybe I was just impatient," he says, "or it wasn't going to go fast enough, but [the department] is still in the same place I left it, with an over $8 billion budget. Now it's over $10 billion."
Today, 70 percent of that budget goes to pay salaries and benefits to the union and staff. Just 5 percent of the budget goes to education and vocational programs — the kind of programs that study after study in the past 10 years has found will keep inmates from returning to prison.
Shop Talk: A Chance To Cross Race Lines
From the instant you walk through the metal doors of the mill and cabinetry workshop at Folsom, you get a different feeling from other parts of the prison. In the shop on a recent day, a group of black, white and Latino inmates are bent over a table, talking to each other, discussing measurements for a conference table.
"When we're down here, we put all the politics to the side," says inmate Derrick Poole as he works on the table's legs. "It gives us a place to go where we can we can get out of the prison politics gang, where we don't get along, where we don't socialize outside our race. We socialize outside our race here."
Poole is spending nine years at Folsom for drug possession with intent to sell. In his life, he has been released from prison at least six times that he can remember. It hasn't worked out well.
"When I got out, you kind of lose your social skills," Poole said. "You get used to segregating yourself. You already weren't learned on the street. Then you come in here and you're not learning, and now your mind is more hollow, more empty."
Poole got very lucky this time, beating out hundreds of others to land a spot among just 27 inmates in the cabinetry program. When he's done, Poole will be an accredited woodworker with his GED.
Most of the men in Folsom won't be so fortunate. Just across from the cabinetry shop, program administrator and school Principal Jean Bracy sits in her makeshift office next to the welding class. She knows the statistics by heart.
"I have 1,797 inmates who read below the 9th grade level; 394 of those read below the 4th grade level," Bracy says. "When we put them back out on the streets, they're not employable."
And back on the streets is where 85 percent of all California's inmates are going one day when their sentences run out, regardless of whether they spent their time in prison dealing drugs and running a gang or learning how to weld.
Bracy only has a handful of vocational programs left, enough to reach less than 10 percent of Folsom's inmates — and the state plans to cut even that in half in the next few weeks.
"I think this is the worst I've ever seen it," Bracy says.
'A Merry-Go-Round'
It only costs her about $100,000 to run these programs — not even a blip in a $10 billion-a-year prison budget. But, says Bracy, the programs are always the first to go. Sometimes she almost feels like giving up.
"It's just not cost-effective to throw men and women in prison and then do nothing with them," she said. "And shame on us for thinking that's safety. It's not public safety. You lock them up and do nothing with them. They go out not even equal to what they came in but worse."
The numbers bear that out, with 90,000 inmates returning to California's prisons every year.
But compare that to the Braille program here at Folsom. Inmates are learning to translate books for the blind. In 20 years, not a single inmate who has been part of the program has ever returned to prison. This year, the program has been cut back to 19 inmates.
Out on the prison yard, one of the oldtimers, an inmate named Ed Steward — or "Lefty" — sits in old chair in the only bit of shade on the dusty dirt field. He watches the inmates stand in groups by their race and shakes his head.
"Nowadays, you know, the kids are just coming through this like it's a merry-go-round," he said. "Like there's nothing to it."
Most of these inmates here on this yard aren't here for serious or violent crimes. The number of inmates incarcerated in California's prisons for murder, assault or rape has been relatively unchanged in two decades. The difference is this yard is now packed with drug dealers and drug users, car thieves and shoplifters who stole something worth more than $500.
What Used To Be
But all across this prison are signs of what this place once was — when administrators came from New York and Texas to find out how Folsom kept its violence so low and its inmates from coming back.
There's the deserted shop where inmates used to train to be butchers; it was closed when the prison couldn't afford to remove the asbestos.
Its thriving medical facility was shuttered when it couldn't keep up with thousands of new inmates.
And hovering above the prison is China Hill, a now-barren field where inmates once trained to become landscapers. The prison can't afford to pay the teacher.
Warden Michael Evans can see China Hill just outside his office. Its meaning is not lost on him.
"If I have a dog and I put him in a cage and I beat [him] regularly, ultimately [it] will bite me when I open that door," he said.
After three decades working in corrections, Evans says he has come to one conclusion.
"I think that prisons should be a place where an individual has the opportunity to change if they choose to," he said, "and we move forward from there."
For now, California is at a standstill, unable to find the money to move forward with a different strategy, unable to move backward to a time when it didn't need one.
RightField
Literotica Guru
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This is the situation and why it's difficult.
First, state and local unions have negotiated very favorably for years and have very lucrative contracts (it's a good deal when the union is in favor of higher pay and benefits for the union and their bosses, the politicians, are in favor of higher pay and better benefits for the union too)...makes negotiation simple and sorta takes the public taxpayer out of the equation.
Second, during the boom years, tax receipts grew significantly. Rising home prices (above historical averages when compared to value to incomes) meant a jump in real estate tax receipts. Some states and local governments said to themselves "well, this is just a temporary bubble and I'm going to use the money for temporary benefits (building upgrades, new buildings, etc) and some states and local governments decided to put it into other programs of a more permanent nature and became dependent on the higher income stream. The prison example above is a noted state-run program. Some states/communities put it into hiring lots of new state jobs/programs for anything they thought would give them more votes....a silly example might be a new county sponsored dog-walking service for the residents of Beverly Hills. A not-so-silly example might be hiring lots of new teachers, administrators, police or fire-fighters. Our county bought a whole bunch of new athletic facilities...a short-term spending initiative thankfully. The result, nation-wide, was a huge increase in the number of state and local workers over the past few years.
The bust comes and real estate values plummet as do real estate tax receipts and another 5% of people are out of work. The real estate values have fallen a little below historical averages, but much closer than they were during the artificial boom so this "new" level of real estate revenue is a little lower than what they can expect in the future, but not a whole lot lower. Without large new tax increases, the current level of spending is unsustainable. The declining revenue puts a real pinch on the state and local governments, particularly the ones who negotiated a gold-plated set of pay and benefits for their existing and many new employees.
The local and state governments are faced with a big shortfall that looks like it will last a long time. Their levels of spending are unsustainable if supported by the community only (the historical way). They have several choices, they could reign in the spending and release the new employees including the new dog-walking team in Beverly Hills, they could renegotiate the higher pay and benefits (they really can't afford them) back down to historical levels, they could increase tax rates significantly. Many states have balanced budget laws so they have to trim spending or increase taxes rather dramatically. The last alternative, however, is to go to Barack Obama and say "make huge new deficit spending programs so that we don't have to fire the new dog-walkers and all the relatives that the local political boss has hired and we can balance our budgets."
The deficit spending is larger than the war effort. We are supporting, for at least one more year, an usustainable "Army" (bigger than the Army) of state and local employees who have pension plans that are in the neighborhood of 3x (a rough estimate - I haven't run the numbers) higher than what anyone can pay in the private sector. It's a tough choice because it would be bad to put a lot more newly unemployed people out looking for jobs, but at the same time, the level of spending is unsustainable.
Does your local school district really need an increase in teachers of 20%? Does the town police force need 20%, 30%, more new officers? Look at the example of prisons noted above. I'm sure that all those communities are pleased to have all the new state and local workers, but, can Mayberry RFD really support a police force of 22 officers, 10 administrators and 15 other support personnel when they got by for 40 years with just Andy Griffith and Don Knotts? I like having law and order and I like police officers. However, the town has to decide, can it really afford this number of town officials?
The "Stimulus" paid their salaries for another year while the communities were supposed to decide what to do. The new budget figures ($1.6T deficit) was really surpising because Obama decided that he's going to continue to protect all those new officials in Mayberry and every other town across the country and he's using deficit spending to do it. He's projected the support for these public employee unions out for many years. For many reasons, not the least of which is the millions upon millions that the public employee unions have donated to him and the democrats, he's funding this "Army" far into the future.
However, that deficit is adding about $20,000 in new "loans" that each family will have to pay back....and that's just for this year. What about adding that much more next year? The year after? When does the amount become so large that we can never pay it back? Can we really afford it?
First, state and local unions have negotiated very favorably for years and have very lucrative contracts (it's a good deal when the union is in favor of higher pay and benefits for the union and their bosses, the politicians, are in favor of higher pay and better benefits for the union too)...makes negotiation simple and sorta takes the public taxpayer out of the equation.
Second, during the boom years, tax receipts grew significantly. Rising home prices (above historical averages when compared to value to incomes) meant a jump in real estate tax receipts. Some states and local governments said to themselves "well, this is just a temporary bubble and I'm going to use the money for temporary benefits (building upgrades, new buildings, etc) and some states and local governments decided to put it into other programs of a more permanent nature and became dependent on the higher income stream. The prison example above is a noted state-run program. Some states/communities put it into hiring lots of new state jobs/programs for anything they thought would give them more votes....a silly example might be a new county sponsored dog-walking service for the residents of Beverly Hills. A not-so-silly example might be hiring lots of new teachers, administrators, police or fire-fighters. Our county bought a whole bunch of new athletic facilities...a short-term spending initiative thankfully. The result, nation-wide, was a huge increase in the number of state and local workers over the past few years.
The bust comes and real estate values plummet as do real estate tax receipts and another 5% of people are out of work. The real estate values have fallen a little below historical averages, but much closer than they were during the artificial boom so this "new" level of real estate revenue is a little lower than what they can expect in the future, but not a whole lot lower. Without large new tax increases, the current level of spending is unsustainable. The declining revenue puts a real pinch on the state and local governments, particularly the ones who negotiated a gold-plated set of pay and benefits for their existing and many new employees.
The local and state governments are faced with a big shortfall that looks like it will last a long time. Their levels of spending are unsustainable if supported by the community only (the historical way). They have several choices, they could reign in the spending and release the new employees including the new dog-walking team in Beverly Hills, they could renegotiate the higher pay and benefits (they really can't afford them) back down to historical levels, they could increase tax rates significantly. Many states have balanced budget laws so they have to trim spending or increase taxes rather dramatically. The last alternative, however, is to go to Barack Obama and say "make huge new deficit spending programs so that we don't have to fire the new dog-walkers and all the relatives that the local political boss has hired and we can balance our budgets."
The deficit spending is larger than the war effort. We are supporting, for at least one more year, an usustainable "Army" (bigger than the Army) of state and local employees who have pension plans that are in the neighborhood of 3x (a rough estimate - I haven't run the numbers) higher than what anyone can pay in the private sector. It's a tough choice because it would be bad to put a lot more newly unemployed people out looking for jobs, but at the same time, the level of spending is unsustainable.
Does your local school district really need an increase in teachers of 20%? Does the town police force need 20%, 30%, more new officers? Look at the example of prisons noted above. I'm sure that all those communities are pleased to have all the new state and local workers, but, can Mayberry RFD really support a police force of 22 officers, 10 administrators and 15 other support personnel when they got by for 40 years with just Andy Griffith and Don Knotts? I like having law and order and I like police officers. However, the town has to decide, can it really afford this number of town officials?
The "Stimulus" paid their salaries for another year while the communities were supposed to decide what to do. The new budget figures ($1.6T deficit) was really surpising because Obama decided that he's going to continue to protect all those new officials in Mayberry and every other town across the country and he's using deficit spending to do it. He's projected the support for these public employee unions out for many years. For many reasons, not the least of which is the millions upon millions that the public employee unions have donated to him and the democrats, he's funding this "Army" far into the future.
However, that deficit is adding about $20,000 in new "loans" that each family will have to pay back....and that's just for this year. What about adding that much more next year? The year after? When does the amount become so large that we can never pay it back? Can we really afford it?
Last edited:
tinylittlegnat
aggressive progressive
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Two C&P posters in a row. What a night.
At least trysail had the integrity to post a link.
At least trysail had the integrity to post a link.
BigGator5
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Just to be cleared, I don't care what Schwarzenegger says. When he was elected Governor, there was talk of amending the United States Constitution so he could run for President. Now... not so much.
Honestly gnat, would you vote for this guy for POTUS?
Honestly gnat, would you vote for this guy for POTUS?
LadyFunkenstein
Photoshopped
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Excellent analysis.
tinylittlegnat
aggressive progressive
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Never said I would. I have only ever voted third party in large elections. But if it was him or Palin or Bush again I would pick him in a heartbeat.
You never did address the OP.
Sonny Limatina
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I don't want to take undue credit, but the shit really hit the fan about the time we got out here.
Le Jacquelope
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RightField
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Excuse me....mine was written by hand and was not a C&P job. If you have something valuable to say, say it.
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Le Jacquelope
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Considering how many scofflaws get away with shit in the 500,000-people city down the hill from me, hell yes we could use another 20% more officers.
As for teachers, have you seen class sizes as of lately? We need about a 100% increase in teachers to handle our student population. We're suffering due to a lack of teachers. Then again, I can see why you would oppose that: fewer teachers means more Republicans.
Hell, why can't the US go into default? We need to hit the reset button.
RightField
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That's not really a very viable alternative. That would crush the entire world financial and banking system and there's be a huge spike in unemployment. Our world would change to resemble something like you'd see in a Mad Max movie very quickly and it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a 50% unemployment rate. That anarchy is probably what you're interested in, but it's not my choice. I'd rather keep some semblance of civilization and stability.
garbage can
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Uhmm, not true.
Bush was never popular among talk show hosts, and they disliked McCain even more. Some disassociated themselves from the Republicans, by calling themselves Conservatives.
Talking about the lions, what happened to Leibermann, the former VP nominee?
BigGator5
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I thought I did in my first post in this thread.
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Joe the Bummer changes his tune for whichever way the wind blows.
He's a scumbag and as loyal as a piece of dog shit.
Le Jacquelope
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Dude, we're headed that way anyway. If we cut spending to cut the deficit, there's no path to do that which will not result in the financial system falling apart anyway.
By the time we pay down the US debt going your way, China will be the dominant world superpower and emerging nations will be following their model for success - you know, no Democracy, no pollution controls, murderously unsafe workplaces, all the third world bullshit that you would totally fear to live with. Essentially, your solution leads to a slow death in which we'll hit every branch on the way down.
Your way will bring us a gradual rise in unemployment; hell, during the Bush years, underemployment was rampant. Our U6 unemployment wasn't any better than Europe's. Funny, how Europe has better unemployment than we do now. Now how's that for an inconvenient truth?
Your way will lead to the entire Western World withering and dying, with hell holes like China and India, then Africa, being both the center of worker exploitation, pollution, and a new rise in top-heavy prosperity.
Mad Max? Hell, we won't even have the gasoline to run those road warrior vehicles when China closes out America and the value of our dollar dives. Oh, we'll probably start drilling off the coast, but we'll burn through that in no time. And then what'll we do?
If we hit the reset button now, while America still CAN DO!, we can roll up our sleeves and create a trickle-up economy that favors the working class over the interests of the rich.
RightField
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You know there's a certain irony when you accuse me of being an uneducated Republican. You do realize that don't you?
