Same Sex Romance/Erotica

[VerbalAbuse]

In both MM romance and MM erotica, the majority of authors are women. This has been noted in multiple studies of the genre as well as through observations in publishing and online writing communities. Women—particularly heterosexual or bisexual women—dominate the MM romance and erotica markets, both as writers and readers. There are, of course, male authors writing MM, but they form a smaller percentage of the total.

Various surveys, reader polls, and publishing insights have shown that a significant majority of MM romance consumers identify as women, with estimates often ranging from 70% to 90% of the audience.

FF romance and erotica are primarily written and read by women, though the audience is more mixed compared to MM.

As for FF (female/female) romance and erotica, the trends are a bit different. While many lesbian authors write FF romance for an audience of other queer women, the readership also includes a notable number of straight or bisexual women. The publishing market for FF romance has historically been smaller than MM, possibly due to demand—MM is often marketed to a broader audience that includes straight women, while FF is more niche. That said, there has been growing interest in FF romance in recent years, especially within indie publishing and LGBTQ+ digital platforms.

FF erotica has a similarly mixed authorship, with both queer women and straight women writing in the genre.

Around 60–80% of readers are women.

On platforms like Amazon, there are 2–4 times more MM romance books available compared to FF.

AO3’s top ship rankings are overwhelmingly MM pairings, with FF being a much smaller portion of the landscape. MM fanfiction outnumbers FF by at least 4:1, based on AO3’s own tag statistics.

In some spaces, like fanfiction, the MM:FF Ratio can be as high as 5:1 or more.

 

[NotWise]

That predominance of MM over FF surprises me, both because FF is common mainstream porn and because the GM category here isn't that much bigger than LS. The ratio in the number of stories here is about 3:2. Don't know about the number of readers, but just looking at the views on today's stories it looks like the crowds might be about the same size.

 

[TheLobster]

That predominance of MM over FF surprises me, both because FF is common mainstream porn and because the GM category here isn't that much bigger than LS.

Combined with OP's data, this is evidence for the claim that Lit's readership skews male.

 

[kitmarlowe]

Combined with OP's data, this is evidence for the claim that Lit's readership skews male.

I wonder if the free sites skew male but women are more likely to pay for their smut than men?

I don't know how you'd test that but something about it feels right.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

AO3’s top ship rankings are overwhelmingly MM pairings, with FF being a much smaller portion of the landscape. MM fanfiction outnumbers FF by at least 4:1, based on AO3’s own tag statistics.

In some spaces, like fanfiction, the MM:FF Ratio can be as high as 5:1 or more.

Considering the crowd the AO3 attracts, it isn't that surprising. It would be interesting to see how MF fares in comparison.

Although, I must say I see the method of gathering data as very problematic. Tags are misleading in this sense. I see people drawing conclusions based on tags in other places too and it mostly leads to wrong statistics.

 

[mrs_mackenzie]

Considering the crowd the AO3 attracts, it isn't that surprising. It would be interesting to see how MF fares in comparison.

Although, I must say I see the method of gathering data as very problematic. Tags are misleading in this sense. I see people drawing conclusions based on tags in other places too and it mostly leads to wrong statistics.

I think this is valid. Much more so than any other form of writing, fanfiction is about wish-fulfilment, and by nature appeals to an extremely niche audience (fans of the original work who are also interested in fanfiction), so there is going to be a strong element of self-reinforcement. MM romance is popular so people write more of them because they're what people engage with. Additionally, AO3's moderation standards are lax/non-existent so tags data will include some stories which are not stories at all but rather just fragments or part-chapters.

In mainstream romance, I've often found that female authors tend to write male characters as 'this is how I wish a man would behave' rather than 'this is how a man behaves', so compound that into a MM romance and usually I'm giving up after a few pages. But this probably explains its popularity: it's the wish-fulfilment aspect of 'what if men were like this?'

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I think this is valid. Much more so than any other form of writing, fanfiction is about wish-fulfilment, and by nature appeals to an extremely niche audience (fans of the original work who are also interested in fanfiction), so there is going to be a strong element of self-reinforcement. MM romance is popular so people write more of them because they're what people engage with. Additionally, AO3's moderation standards are lax/non-existent so tags data will include some stories which are not stories at all but rather just fragments or part-chapters.

In mainstream romance, I've often found that female authors tend to write male characters as 'this is how I wish a man would behave' rather than 'this is how a man behaves', so compound that into a MM romance and usually I'm giving up after a few pages. But this probably explains its popularity: it's the wish-fulfilment aspect of 'what if men were like this?'

The problem with tags is that they are added to stories regardless of how prominent the content of that tag is. Some authors misuse tags just to attract a wider audience. I've seen huge story series with a, say, BDSM tag, which was added just because there is a very brief episode with a domme - less than 1k words even, in a series of 300k+ words that has zero BDSM content otherwise. Such a tag is formally speaking accurate but practically quite misleading.
I've seen the same practice with porn games. People shouldn't base their data about the prevalence of a certain genre on tags. I could name dozens of examples where tags are very misleading.

 

[PennyThompson]

The problem with tags is that they are added to stories regardless of how prominent the content of that tag is. Some authors misuse tags just to attract a wider audience. I've seen huge story series with a, say, BDSM tag, which was added just because there is a very brief episode with a domme - less than 1k words even, in a series of 300k+ words that has zero BDSM content otherwise. Such a tag is formally speaking accurate but practically quite misleading.
I've seen the same practice with porn games. People shouldn't base their data about the prevalence of a certain genre on tags. I could name dozens of examples where tags are very misleading.

This is one of the reasons I started putting an Ingredients List at the top of my stories

Ingredients list (mild spoilers)
1 cup romance
1 cup comedy
1 cup futanari/cis-woman sex
1 cup cis-lesbian sex
1/2 cup discussion of past coercion and ethical misconduct
2 tbsp edging and orgasm denial
1 tbsp age difference

Let potential readers know what's in the story, and in what proportions, and then they can make an informed decision to read it or not!

 

[kitmarlowe]

This is one of the reasons I started putting an Ingredients List at the top of my stories

Ingredients list (mild spoilers)
1 cup romance
1 cup comedy
1 cup futanari/cis-woman sex
1 cup cis-lesbian sex
1/2 cup discussion of past coercion and ethical misconduct
2 tbsp edging and orgasm denial
1 tbsp age difference

Let potential readers know what's in the story, and in what proportions, and then the can make an informed decision to read it or not!

I actually love this and I thought it was hilarious when I saw it on Full Moon Blues for the first time. Now that I know why you do it it's even better!

 

[MillieDynamite]

In mainstream heterosexual romance stories, a large number of the writers are gay men (often writing under a female pseudonym). Not sure what that has to do with the price of lesbian and gay sex and romance stores, but I find it interesting.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I wonder if the free sites skew male but women are more likely to pay for their smut than men?

I don't know how you'd test that but something about it feels right.

AO3 is a free site, and I'd guess the authorship is more female than here.

I suspect part of the reason for the lean towards M-M in fanfic is that fanfic pairings are often based on characters who have an interesting dynamic in the source material, but aren't already fucking. A lot of the potential source material out there has plenty of dudes interacting with one another, but is comparatively light on female-female interactions that might make for good fic fodder.

 

[kitmarlowe]

AO3 is a free site, and I'd guess the authorship is more female than here.

I suspect part of the reason for the lean towards M-M in fanfic is that fanfic pairings are often based on characters who have an interesting dynamic in the source material, but aren't already fucking. A lot of the potential source material out there has plenty of dudes interacting with one another, but is comparatively light on female-female interactions that might make for good fic fodder.

I was definitely drawing a distinction between free erotica sites and fanfic sites in my mind, but yes, you're right about AO3 and most fanfic spaces in general.

 

[VallesMarineris]

In mainstream heterosexual romance stories, a large number of the writers are gay men (often writing under a female pseudonym). Not sure what that has to do with the price of lesbian and gay sex and romance stores, but I find it interesting.

So is the situation like this:

And straight male authors don't write romance?

 

[MillieDynamite]

Rarely do straight men write heterosexual romance (or any romance). They write adventure stories with a bit of romance (mostly about Bond-like characters banging girls).

So is the situation like this:
View attachment 2521464
And straight male authors don't write romance?

 

[TheLobster]

So is the situation like this:

In case someone was hopefully confused as to how to read this table for a few minutes like I was...

Columns refer to the sex of the author. Rows refer to his or her sexual orientation.
The cells thus mean:

1. Gay men write straight (MF) romance
2. Gay women write gay female (FF) romance
3. No one knows what straight men write
4. Straight women write gay male (MM) romance

Bottom line is that only lesbians write what they know

 

[Bramblethorn]

In case someone was hopefully confused as to how to read this table for a few minutes like I was...

Columns refer to the sex of the author. Rows refer to his or her sexual orientation.
The cells thus mean:

1. Gay men write straight (MF) romance
2. Gay women write gay female (FF) romance
3. No one knows what straight men write
4. Straight women write gay male (MM) romance

Bottom line is that only lesbians write what they know

I presume bisexuals are a hidden row in the table.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Rarely do straight men write heterosexual romance (or any romance). They write adventure stories with a bit of romance (mostly about Bond-like characters banging girls).

Well fuck. After ten years, I'm told this? Looks like a good half of my stories aren't what I thought they were!

 

[TheLobster]

I presume bisexuals are a hidden row in the table.

Wouldn't be Lit if they weren't overlooked.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

So much generalization and labeling.

 

[VallesMarineris]

Bottom line is that only lesbians write what they know

That's an interesting corollary that I missed. But then one could also conclude that straight male authors write what they know-- they just don't know romance. I think this would resonate with a lot of straight women's experience.

 

[TheLobster]

But then one could also conclude that straight male authors write what they know-- they just don't know romance. I think this would resonate with a lot of straight women's experience.

I'm not sure I'd put much stock in the straight women's opinion on the subject when they are shying away from straight romance as well.

 

[MillieDynamite]

See, I didn't say never, I said rarely. You're a rare bird!

Well fuck. After ten years, I'm told this? Looks like a good half of my stories aren't what I thought they were!

 

[TheLobster]

So much generalization and labeling.

That’s how you turn data into knowledge.

 

[CyranoJ]

Okay. I have never, ever heard of "gay men writing hetero romance under female pseudonyms" being a thing. Not that it's impossible, but isn't the more parsimonious explanation that when it appears to be straight women writing straight romance novels, that's in fact what is happening? Gay men don't tend to fetishize MF romance in the way that some straight women fetishize MM romance.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I saw a documentary on it, HBO, Cinemax, or Showtime, maybe, when I was 17 or so. It interviewed 10 gay men writers who wrote hertrosexual romance stories under women's pen names. I'd venture to say that most men writing heterosexual romance stories would use a woman's pen name, whether they were gay or not. How many men sounding names have you seen in the Harlquen stable? But the ten men who were interviewed all said it was quite common (in the 80s through 2008) for gay men to write under women's names, especially in Romance. I am assuming they meant straight romance, though they didn't specify that.

Okay. I have never, ever heard of "gay men writing hetero romance under female pseudonyms" being a thing. Not that it's impossible, but isn't the more parsimonious explanation that when it appears to be straight women writing straight romance novels, that's in fact what is happening? Gay men don't tend to fetishize MF romance in the way that some straight women fetishize MM romance.