'Said' or not?

[LoquiSordidaAdMe]

I tend to avoid the word 'said'. I was taught that it was a dull dialogue tag that conveys nothing about the words being spoken. So I use 'muttered' or 'explained' or 'conceded' or something.

Just now, I got out of a writer's panel at AwesomeCon (Washington's answer to Comic Con) where the panelist urged writers to use 'said'. Use it over and over. Use it a hundred times in a row. Use it all the time they said.

Their reasoning was that readers' eyes pass right over 'said', ignoring it and making dialogue flow more smoothly. They also said that the more frequently you use alternative dialogue tags like 'muttered' or 'explained' or 'conceded' the more you dilute their impact.

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Handley_Page]

I think it depends upon what the character is trying to say, and how much 'flavour' you put into that bit of speech.

 

[oggbashan]

I agree with the writers' panel most of the time.

'Said' doesn't register with many readers. Also 'answered'; 'replied'; 'responded'; etc. Anything else should be used sparingly for effect.

 

[Weird Harold]

I tend to avoid the word 'said'. I was taught that it was a dull dialogue tag that conveys nothing about the words being spoken. So I use 'muttered' or 'explained' or 'conceded' or something.

Just now, I got out of a writer's panel at AwesomeCon (Washington's answer to Comic Con) where the panelist urged writers to use 'said'. Use it over and over. Use it a hundred times in a row. Use it all the time they said.

Their reasoning was that readers' eyes pass right over 'said', ignoring it and making dialogue flow more smoothly. They also said that the more frequently you use alternative dialogue tags like 'muttered' or 'explained' or 'conceded' the more you dilute their impact.

Anyone have any thoughts?

My first choice in dialogue tags is "None". I only use tags of any kind when I can't l avoid them; context should make everything clear

 

[NotWise]

Just now, I got out of a writer's panel at AwesomeCon (Washington's answer to Comic Con) where the panelist urged writers to use 'said'. Use it over and over. Use it a hundred times in a row. Use it all the time they said.

This is the guidance I've read. If a tag is needed, then I almost always use "said", "asked" or "answered." If the manner of delivery actually needs to be fleshed out, then I'll do it somewhere other than in the tag. Normally the tags don't need much flesh on the bones.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I try not to use too many dialogue takes, unless I think they are needed to add emotional context. But I agree that readers skip right past "said" most of the time. If it wasn't needed to keep track of who is talking, we could probably lose it all together.

 

[SamScribble]

Here are a couple of points from the notes I used to give to students at the beginning of a creative writing course:

• Use words that the reader will know. If the reader goes off to find a dictionary – physically or electronically – she may never come back.

• Let your characters speak for themselves. And, whenever possible, avoid adverbs.

‘This place is a dump,’ Michael said. ‘A total dump.’

The reader seldom needs to be told that he said it disdainfully. Or angrily. Or anythingly.

• And, while we are on the subject of dialog tags, don’t be afraid of ‘he said/she said’. While there may sometimes be a case for ‘he muttered’, ‘he opined’ seldom adds anything of value.

There were, of course, a few other points; but if the student kept it simple, it usually produced a more engaging story.

 

[CuteSlaveLisa]

Like many others before me on this thread, my preference is no tag at all. I prefer for the speaker to be apparent without explanation from the dialog, narrative or situation.

However, there are situations where tags are helpful. More than two speakers, to convey emotion, to intersperse speech and action occurring simultaneously come to mind.

"Grab the paddle," Dan said as he worked to right the canoe. "Before it floats away."

"Oh, great!" Gina said sarcastically. "Michelle is here."



Lots of my characters say things sarcastically, I have no idea why.


Love and Kisses

Lisa Ann

 

[Hypoxia]

Anything other than 'said' slows eyeballs. I like to slow eyeballs... for certain effects. "What the fuck!" Toni ejaculated, is meant to induce a wince. Similar excesses are fine for parody. "What the fuck," Toni grouched, is more concise than "What the fuck," Toni said grouchily. Oh yeah, adverbs. They're spices. Use cayenne sparingly.

 

[CuteSlaveLisa]

Speedbumps

"My dialog... Well a lot of my dialog... Which is to say, that a lot of the dialog that is attributed to individual characters in my fiction... I put speedbumps in that dialog, to purposefully slow down the reader."

"What type of speedbumps..."

"I like ellipses, and commas... They reflect the way people actually speak."

Anything other than 'said' slows eyeballs. I like to slow eyeballs... for certain effects. "What the fuck!" Toni ejaculated, is meant to induce a wince. Similar excesses are fine for parody. "What the fuck," Toni grouched, is more concise than "What the fuck," Toni said grouchily. Oh yeah, adverbs. They're spices. Use cayenne sparingly.

 

[MelissaBaby]

"Oh, great!" Gina said sarcastically. "Michelle is here."


Lots of my characters say things sarcastically, I have no idea why.

I'd more likely write:

"Oh great," Gina sneered, "Michelle is here."

Or:

Gina rolled her eyes. "Oh great, Michelle is here."

 

[ElectricBlue]

This is the guidance I've read. If a tag is needed, then I almost always use "said", "asked" or "answered." If the manner of delivery actually needs to be fleshed out, then I'll do it somewhere other than in the tag. Normally the tags don't need much flesh on the bones.

Agree this. There was a discussion on this several months ago; the consensus was for a minimal use of speech tags, and the less embroidery the better. As part of that go-around I counted my use of tags per lines of dialogue - across several stories I was fairly consistently one tag per twenty dialogue exchanges, limited to "said" "asked" and "replied." The minds eye treats the repeated tags like breathing, I think - they keep the narrative flow running smoothly and only need to be elaborated for effect. My surrounding sentences provide the context and the action, but the speech itself only rarely gets labelled.

 

[SimonDoom]

As with all questions regarding what one is "supposed" to do when writing, rules are really guidelines. There are always exceptions. But the general rule is to use the word "said," unless there's a string of dialogue in which the identity of the speaker is clear without using any dialogue tag.

Readers will skip over it. They will not mind that it's repetitious. There's no need to find clever synonyms for "said."

A good general rule for dealing with these questions, in my opinion, is to pull books of authors you admire off your shelf and see how they did it. I did that after looking at the OP's question. And the verdict is clear: good authors use the word "said," over and over. They do without it when conveying the speaker's identity does not require it. But they don't go to great lengths to find synonyms. Some authors, like Hemingway, use "said" almost exclusively. Although it's not a hard and fast rule, I think it's generally better style to use "said" rather than "muttered", "explained", "conceded", or various similar kinds of words.

 

[NotWise]

Like many others before me on this thread, my preference is no tag at all. I prefer for the speaker to be apparent without explanation from the dialog, narrative or situation.

The problem with minimizing tags is that what's obvious to you as the writer is probably not as evident to the reader. I recently beta read an excellent story by an excellent writer, and I had to call him on skipping too many tags. It seemed like more than a few untagged exchanges was all it took to make me stop, back up, and make sure I knew who was talking. I don't think you usually want readers to do that.

 

[SimonDoom]

The problem with minimizing tags is that what's obvious to you as the writer is probably not as evident to the reader. I recently beta read an excellent story by an excellent writer, and I had to call him on skipping too many tags. It seemed like more than a few untagged exchanges was all it took to make me stop, back up, and make sure I knew who was talking. I don't think you usually want readers to do that.

Absolutely. Writers need to be mindful of how their words come across, not just what they intend by them. When you write, the word "said" can seem awfully repetitious. But I don't think readers see it that way. If it enhances clarity about the identity of the speaker, it's a good thing.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Just now, I got out of a writer's panel at AwesomeCon (Washington's answer to Comic Con) where the panelist urged writers to use 'said'. Use it over and over. Use it a hundred times in a row. Use it all the time they said.

Their reasoning was that readers' eyes pass right over 'said', ignoring it and making dialogue flow more smoothly. They also said that the more frequently you use alternative dialogue tags like 'muttered' or 'explained' or 'conceded' the more you dilute their impact.

I agree with the panelist. It's a workhorse word like "the" that doesn't easily get worn out. (Though I also agree with Weird Harold that often you don't need a tag at all.)

Fancier tags can sometimes be useful for giving more information about the speech than "said" would provide. But my rule of thumb is that where possible, it's better to give that information through the dialogue itself, or context around it.

Example:

"You've been sleeping with him!" he accused.

We can already tell from the quote that this is an accusation. Tagging with "he accused" is labouring the point.

IMHO, fancy speech verbs (accused, explained, ...) are best used for summarising dialogue rather than for tagging it: "he accused her of sleeping with other men" is fine. I make an exception for Ring Lardner's best-known line:

Shut up, he explained.

 

[LupusDei]

"You've been sleeping with him!" he mocked.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he cheered, hiding his anger.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he concluded, that had been easy charade to solve.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he sneered, happy about girl's courage.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he hissed in apparent anger, laughing mentally, long awaited it had finally happened.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he wondered, that was useful discovery.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he sighed, the inevitable had happened.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he explained Mary's anger to her.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he dictated what she should tell to Daphne.

I deal with characters that lie more often than not and use exact same words for prise, mockery and as an insult.

 

[jomar]

Elmore Leonard said just use said so that’s good enough for me. So I sprinkle it in every few lines to keep the reader straight.

I do throw in an “ly” tag every now and then just because I can’t resist...to my detriment probably.

 

[Hypoxia]

The problem with minimizing tags is that what's obvious to you as the writer is probably not as evident to the reader.

It's even worse when the tags are misapplied. Oops, I meant Tom, not Ron or Toni. I did that in a recent story; it still won a Red-H so I dunno how much readers care as their eyes swoop along and their hands vibrate.

I cited Larry Niven's rules of writing in another thread. #1: Writers writing for other writers should write letters. I.e. don't fret the common wisdom. Just observe, think, and write. See what works.

 

[jomar]

So writerly show vs tell said tag corollary...

If you show more do you use said more?

If you tell more do use varied tags more?

Is it really an issue or is mental masturbation just kind of fun?

 

[Hypoxia]

Is it really an issue or is mental masturbation just kind of fun?

Yes indeed.

 

[SimonDoom]

So writerly show vs tell said tag corollary...

If you show more do you use said more?

If you tell more do use varied tags more?

Is it really an issue or is mental masturbation just kind of fun?

Generally speaking, I'd say yes to 1 and 2. Yes, it's an issue, and no, it's not just mental masturbation.

If you want to show, then show through the words of the dialogue, and through the narrative that accompanies the dialogue, rather than through the dialogue tag. It's not always the best way, but usually it is.

 

[Bramblethorn]

"You've been sleeping with him!" he mocked.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he cheered, hiding his anger.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he concluded, that had been easy charade to solve.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he sneered, happy about girl's courage.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he hissed in apparent anger, laughing mentally, long awaited it had finally happened.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he wondered, that was useful discovery.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he sighed, the inevitable had happened.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he explained Mary's anger to her.

"You've been sleeping with him!" he dictated what she should tell to Daphne.

I deal with characters that lie more often than not and use exact same words for prise, mockery and as an insult.

Several of those aren't speech tags, though, and aren't grammatical as used.

 

[KeithD]

You can't go totally without dialogue tags, or your readers will be confused. You especially can't do so when more than two people are in verbal exchanges. It's true that professional writers and editors advise use of the few ones that have been identified precisely because they help clarity without being intrusive.

 

[LoquiSordidaAdMe]

Thank you all for the feedback. I wish I could have responded to each of you individually, but I was otherwise occupied, and now there is too much.

I'm not certain where exactly my aversion to the word 'said' came from, but it is a long-held belief. I have literally used Ctrl-F to search for and eliminate it from my stories in the past. There's probably an English grad student to blame somewhere back in my academic history. It sounds like I need to reevaluate my position and experiment with the word.

As for skipping dialogue tags entirely, my stories tend to be dialogue-heavy, and when I try to go without tags, more than one beta reader has told me they get confused. So maybe I need to write better tagless dialogue. Something to work on.

Finally, I think some someone suggested that different styles need different conventions. I'm really quite pleased with the reception of my stories, and readers seem to enjoy them without the use of 'said'. So maybe that's just my style and I shouldn't mess with what's working.

Well, I have a lot to consider before my next story. Thank you all again, and thanks in advance for any additional contributions to this thread.

(And if you ever have the opportunity to see John Barrowman live in person, take it because he is outrageously entertaining.)