Sad experience

cantdog

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It's probably unfair to begin a thread just at this time, since I'm about an hour from hopping in the car to leave for the weekend. All the same.

My pastor works Sundays, you see, so she takes Fridays off. A woman came in today, just a minute ago leaving again. She had two things to talk to the pastor about. Firstly, in this woman's mind, she wanted to talk with a real woman pastor in this denomination to see what impression she could gain of that experience.

"I'm going into the ministry myself," she announced to me. "I'm one exam away, right now."

The other thing she had was political. Maine has a vote coming up, a gay rights thing. She had flyers and a poster about opposing the gays. She wanted to enlist our church to spread the word.

"People should know that the bill will actually legalize homosexuality! It's not about discriminating or anything, it's just that the whole thing will legalize it."

Well, I have no authority here; I refuse all attempts to invest me with any. An atheist has no business assuming authority in a church. So I waited until I was walking her out to the car.

"You feel a call to ministry."

"Oh, yes."

"Most of the denomination really detests seeing a woman in the pulpit, you know. They can't stand it. Those same people feel that homosexuality is contrary to Christian teachings."

"What?"

I'd been nothing but polite and had encouraged her to speak, in the office.

"If you become a minister, you'll be benefiting from liberal forces. Until recently women never were allowed. It seems ungenerous of you to turn and bite the gays, now that you personally have been liberated."

"I'm not trying to discriminate!"

"Believing without loving is what gives religion a bad name. Believing without loving turns any creed into a weapon of oppression. You should think about this more, in my opinion. I'm no authority on theology, but I do think--"

The rest of the conversation was a barrage of excuses and explanations interspersed with my voice repeating myself to no discernable benefit to either of us.

The Flyer and the note she wrote will be on the pastor's desk Sunday.

Your turn.
 
cantdog said:
It's probably unfair to begin a thread just at this time, since I'm about an hour from hopping in the car to leave for the weekend. All the same.

My pastor works Sundays, you see, so she takes Fridays off. A woman came in today, just a minute ago leaving again. She had two things to talk to the pastor about. Firstly, in this woman's mind, she wanted to talk with a real woman pastor in this denomination to see what impression she could gain of that experience.

"I'm going into the ministry myself," she announced to me. "I'm one exam away, right now."

The other thing she had was political. Maine has a vote coming up, a gay rights thing. She had flyers and a poster about opposing the gays. She wanted to enlist our church to spread the word.

"People should know that the bill will actually legalize homosexuality! It's not about discriminating or anything, it's just that the whole thing will legalize it."

Well, I have no authority here; I refuse all attempts to invest me with any. An atheist has no business assuming authority in a church. So I waited until I was walking her out to the car.

"You feel a call to ministry."

"Oh, yes."

"Most of the denomination really detests seeing a woman in the pulpit, you know. They can't stand it. Those same people feel that homosexuality is contrary to Christian teachings."

"What?"

I'd been nothing but polite and had encouraged her to speak, in the office.

"If you become a minister, you'll be benefiting from liberal forces. Until recently women never were allowed. It seems ungenerous of you to turn and bite the gays, now that you personally have been liberated."

"I'm not trying to discriminate!"

"Believing without loving is what gives religion a bad name. Believing without loving turns any creed into a weapon of oppression. You should think about this more, in my opinion. I'm no authority on theology, but I do think--"

The rest of the conversation was a barrage of excuses and explanations interspersed with my voice repeating myself to no discernable benefit to either of us.

The Flyer and the note she wrote will be on the pastor's desk Sunday.

Your turn.


Great victories come from the willingness to fight small battles...

well said.
 
Well done for speaking up cant -well done. If nothing else, hopefully it will make her think.
 
Well, you know how it is. No one changes their mind right in front of you, even if you really did make them re-evaluate. It's a social dominance thing, not giving in. Rare is the person who will say, "You know, you're right. I was not seeing this clearly."

So I didn't see any victory. Thanks for the support, though.
 
The human ability at doublethink never ceases to amaze me.

Good on you that you called her on it, cant.
 
You more than likely didn't change her mind, but nor did you stay silent in the face of her hyprocrisy.

Thank you for being an everyday hero. :rose:
 
It's so sad that so many times Christian churches only take out of the Bible what they think will serve their purpose and distort it. For example, people will say, "An eye for an eye," but there's another part to that passage that says, "but I say to you, if a man strikes you, turn the other cheek." (I don't think those are the exact words, but it's important to note that the passage had a different meaning in it's entirety.)

Too often, churches leave out BIG, IMPORTANT parts of Christ's message, which was "Love one another," "Judge not, lest ye be judged," and "Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."

*sigh*

Sad, indeed. :(

These people give a beautiful and loving faith a bad name.
 
Thank you, cant. :heart:

Yours may just be one voice, but as we gather more and more of those voices, eventually we'll have to be heard.

You're my hero for telling her what you think, even though I'm sure you knew what her reaction would be.

(it constantly amazes me that people don't see the hypocrisy in their actions when they act as that woman did)
 
Applebiter -I completely agree with you, it's so sad that churches seem to work like that, taking the bits of scripture they like, and ignoring other bits.

Sadly, many Christians are sheep and will follow the pastor and what he/she says and won't think for themselves -this is why such hyprocrisy is seen so often.

I know there is a bible verse (I can't flippin' well find it though) that exhorts Christians to challenge everything, to constantly think and challenge our own beliefs. I just wish more Christians would do that, than letting thier faith stagnate and accepting every word preached from the Pulpit.

That's religion in my mind, not Faith. Faith needs action,is constantly challenging itself and always seeking to understand things more deeply.

Edited: Hubby is amazing -he found the verses i was looking for:

1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 Do not put out the Spirit’s fire; do not treat prophecies with contempt. Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil.
 
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T.R. said it best:

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."


You may have gained nothing, but you cannot be counted among those timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.
 
cantdog said:
"People should know that the bill will actually legalize homosexuality! It's not about discriminating or anything, it's just that the whole thing will legalize it."
Is homosexuality illegal in Maine?
 
I was always taught that the whole "eye for an eye" thing wasn't about vengeance, but about moderation. If someone injures you, ie, causes you to lose an eye, you shouldn't try to kill them or destroy their family, but instead let the punishment be in accordance with the wrong you have done.

Cantdog, thank you for speaking up. Your voice might just be the start of her realization that all of us are beholden to those who went before and obligated to honor those sacrifices.
 
What I find sad is that her attitude would be against the law in the UK.

Many of the things said openly in the US by churches or elsewhere could lead to prosecution here. The changes in our laws were made only after long battles. Even now the war isn't won while some people still believe that being gay is an infectious disease that can be cured and that homosexuals are lesser beings.

For once the law is leading the way and not following public opinion.

Og
 
CantDog,

Once again you have shown why I respect you.

You answered her using a comendable amount of restraint which I would not have used.

People often wonder why I, a White Middle European Male rejects organised religeon. (I reject it like my body rejects Bi-Valves, rather violently and quite impressivly.) Maybe it is because of people like this women who twist the messages in their version of the holiest books to suit their needs.

After reading several versions of the Bible, the Torah as well as the Talmud and of course the Koran. (Not to mention the Book of Mormon and several texts on Budhism and Hindism.) I have come to realise that in different words they all teach one major important message. "Do not go out of your way to hurt other people." Something many leaders in these religeons should start thinking about.

Cat
 
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