S...

[kinked_a_bit]

F...

 

[KeithD]

Different strokes for different folks. Actually, I find suggestions of "you should write to my particular fetishes" and I'm going to post what they are to a discussion board tiresome. But that's just me. I'm more of letting others write and read what they like as long as I can do so as well and, in return, I'll take personal responsibility for what I write and read and leave others alone to enjoy their own turn-ons.

 

[KeithD]

Well aren’t you special!

I find people who are too weak to voice an opinion and too dishonest to address what was actually said…tiresome.

So I suppose we have no use at all for one another.

But I did express an opinion. I think that those who post what they want others to write/read on a discussion board are being "so what?" arrogant. But you're not alone. There's a steady stream of such folks flowing through here.

 

[Rob_Royale]

I totally agree with the OP. Descriptions are very easy to spread out through the opening chapters without listing attributes.
"Cori looked deeply into his hazel eyes and stroked his tanned face"
"He adored tall women. Bob ran his eyes over her curves, enjoying every inch of her pale skin."

In the first person it's even easier.
"I was amazed that this tall, green eyed goddess was interested in me. She had at least three inches on my five foot, eight inch frame."

"I love your blue eyes," she whispered in my ear. Your are very handsome."

It's one of the differences between good writing and bad. I stop reading when I get to a list of descriptors. No exceptions.

 

[AlinaX]

Her breasts were 36DD, which was remarkable only for being the UK's new average. In truth I lusted for more, and neither her 6'2" height nor her shoulder-length blonde tresses compensated in any way for the ordinariness of her chest. Her pussy, on the other hand... Allow me to tell you every detail of those exquisite labia and the succulent treasure within:

 

[Voboy]

Well aren’t you special!

I find people who are too weak to voice an opinion and too dishonest to address what was actually said…tiresome.

So I suppose we have no use at all for one another.

Oh dear lord.

You said, "Whaddya got?" So Keith gave you what he'd got. Now you're butthurt. That's on you, not him.

Do better. You're coming here posting a brand-new thread about a topic that gets mentioned here about forty times a week. OBVIOUSLY, the people who post here generally agree with you because the people who post here are generally writers, and generally good ones. So... what are we supposed to say? "No! I WANT a list of attributes!!!!" Know your audience if you're going to come and be all hot and heavy on a subforum, is my advice. The kinds of writers you're talking about? They don't come here to read.

This is a painfully common topic and you're not coming in with a particularly "hot take." So you should expect some pushback.

ETA: Lol. Now they've gone and moved the story out of the AH. Ah, well. My reply still holds: Don't ask for opinions and then get pissy because you don't like the ones you receive, especially if you're posting a bland take on a well-trodden topic.

 

[Voboy]

Sorry you wrote all that.

It's fine. I'm a writer. I enjoy doing it.

You're the one who got pissy, not me. I'm just expressing an opinion, which you claimed you wanted, but now claim not to have read. Whatever.

Have a wonderful day.

 

[lovecraft68]

I’m not sure there’s a spot where this fits exactly… but this seems close enough.

It’s not meant as a complaint, but as constructive criticism that might be useful to a few writers.

There’s something that stops me cold when I start reading a story. It’s not topic specific - it’s about technique.

I strongly dislike physical description of the characters that’s presented as a list of attributes.

If you tell me the female character’s height, weight, bra size, hair color, etc… before you start telling the story, I’m moving on.

One reason for this is that that kind of description is boring. If the development of the story requires some of that information, give it as needed.

Otherwise, let the reader fill in some of the blanks in his imagination!

That’s my own bias. I’m sure others have things that are story deal breakers too and I’d be interested to hear some.

Sooo… whaddya got?

Lit doesn't have a complaint department so the option is what you're doing, coming here to vent.
To each their own, we all have things we like and dislike that put us out of a story, but that doesn't make it a real problem, just a problem for us if that makes sense.

I don't want anyone to tell me what to write or how to write, so I extend the same courtesy. FWIW I'm on your side with 'stat' exact bra sizes and penis length make me roll my eyes, but there's a large faction that likes it so who am I to say?

 

[burgwad]

Opening a story with a straight rundown of measurements and physical traits certainly sets a tone. And there is a huge readership for stories written in that tone, possibly who are less interested in artful storytelling, but who certainly mean no one any harm. Unless that's what they're into. But even then.

I think such brass-tacks openings are also an old-fashioned or "time honored" way of starting a piece of erotica, hailing from a bygone era of published erotica when the stuff was brief, to-the-point, and unpretentious. Us more serious, snobby, literary erotica readers/writers today may turn our nose up at this "archaic" approach, seeing it as tacky or brutish or artless, but damn it if isn't our genre's heritage. We'd do better to respect it for what it is, be kind to it, and maybe even learn from it, as despite the renaissance that erotica now enjoys via the internet, there have always been and continue to be readers who prefer to graze rather than to feast.

And they want to know cup-size, asap.

 

[lovecraft68]

Opening a story with a straight rundown of measurements and physical traits certainly sets a tone. And there is a huge readership for stories written in that tone, possibly who are less interested in artful storytelling, but who certainly mean no one any harm. Unless that's what they're into. But even then.

I think such brass-tacks openings are also an old-fashioned or "time honored" way of starting a piece of erotica, hailing from a bygone era of published erotica when the stuff was brief, to-the-point, and unpretentious. Us more serious, snobby, literary erotica readers/writers today may turn our nose up at this "archaic" approach, seeing it as tacky or brutish or artless, but damn it if isn't our genre's heritage. We'd do better to respect it for what it is, be kind to it, and maybe even learn from it, as despite the renaissance that erotica now enjoys via the internet, there have always been and continue to be readers who prefer to graze rather than to feast.

And they want to know cup-size, asap.

Good point, the style screams Penthouse Letters and those smutty stories they'd stick in between photo spreads in magazines. Going back further those paperbacks written by "anonymous' in the 60's and older weren't known for plot.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Opening a story with a straight rundown of measurements and physical traits certainly sets a tone. And there is a huge readership for stories written in that tone, possibly who are less interested in artful storytelling, but who certainly mean no one any harm. Unless that's what they're into. But even then.

I think such brass-tacks openings are also an old-fashioned or "time honored" way of starting a piece of erotica, hailing from a bygone era of published erotica when the stuff was brief, to-the-point, and unpretentious. Us more serious, snobby, literary erotica readers/writers today may turn our nose up at this "archaic" approach, seeing it as tacky or brutish or artless, but damn it if isn't our genre's heritage. We'd do better to respect it for what it is, be kind to it, and maybe even learn from it, as despite the renaissance that erotica now enjoys via the internet, there have always been and continue to be readers who prefer to graze rather than to feast.

And they want to know cup-size, asap.

I've tried writing in a more "provide your own image from your own mind" style of writing and I was criticized for NOT providing that info. It seems some readers want to be told how to visualize the scene before it builds.

So, "damned if you do, and damned if you don't."

Read the stories you like, and leave some for others, too.

 

[Voboy]

I really don't like people in general, but occasionally my desire to communicate, and even assist, causes me to temporarily forget that. Fortunately there are always people like this crowd to remind me.

And "who am I" to say what's better or worse? I'm the one that knows - and isn't afraid to say it.

Knows what? Another poster has already come here to tell you that the comments they've received indicate some readers disagree with what you "know." I suppose they're wrong, and they don't actually know what they like?

Here's a thought: writers can write whatever they please, and readers can read whatever they please. That way, if you don't like how a story goes, you can just click away. And NOT start a thread about how right you are, compared to everyone else.

I'm sensing part of the reason you "really don't like people in general" is because you try to tell them what to do (OH! Sorry. I meant "suggest"). And they react like I am, with scorn. Maybe? Possibly?

Just something you might wish to consider.

 

[lovecraft68]

And I truly hate the person who taught you all to use, "to each his own" to excuse yourselves from any attempt to improve.

Being there is a readership for everything here-and here is what we're discussing-to each their own is not an excuse not to improve because who says just because a writer uses a style you don't like they need improvement?

But seeing you want to talk about improving as a writer, how about a link to your stories so we can see how it's done?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

It's not a "complaint," nor is it "venting" nor is it a "problem" real or imagined. It was a suggestion designed to help those capable of using constructive criticism to write better stories.

And I truly hate the person who taught you all to use, "to each his own" to excuse yourselves from any attempt to improve.

I really don't like people in general, but occasionally my desire to communicate, and even assist, causes me to temporarily forget that. Fortunately there are always people like this crowd to remind me.

And "who am I" to say what's better or worse? I'm the one that knows - and isn't afraid to say it.

Basically, what you are saying is that improving as a writer = listening to your advice. Since you are so bold to claim that you know best how stories should be written, I'll second what LC said, maybe back it up with some well written stories of your own. I mean, you would still come off as a dick, but at least your words would have merit.
The funny thing is that I personally dislike the same thing you first mentioned, but it would never occur to me to give out lessons in such a patronizing way. You are hardly the only person on this forum doing that, yet most other patronizing dicks have their own stories as a testimony to their skill, or the lack of one.

 

[Lifestyle66]

And I truly hate the person who taught you all to use, "to each his own" to excuse yourselves from any attempt to improve.


And "who am I" to say what's better or worse? I'm the one that knows - and isn't afraid to say it.

Trolls in Loving Wives and other 1-bombers have your same "know it all" attitude!

It's not constructive criticism when I've told YOU there are people out there who HATE your way of writing!

Go write your own stories the way you prefer and stop your hate-mongering attitude targeting others who disagree that you are THE all-knowing expert of the only way to do it right!

Now check out my profile and 1-bomb all of my stories. I've told people like you to do that elsewhere.

 

[yukonnights]

I’m not sure there’s a spot where this fits exactly… but this seems close enough.

It’s not meant as a complaint, but as constructive criticism that might be useful to a few writers.

There’s something that stops me cold when I start reading a story. It’s not topic specific - it’s about technique.

I strongly dislike physical description of the characters that’s presented as a list of attributes.

If you tell me the female character’s height, weight, bra size, hair color, etc… before you start telling the story, I’m moving on.

One reason for this is that that kind of description is boring. If the development of the story requires some of that information, give it as needed.

Otherwise, let the reader fill in some of the blanks in his imagination!

That’s my own bias. I’m sure others have things that are story deal breakers too and I’d be interested to hear some.

Sooo… whaddya got?

I'm gonna support 'kinked' in the constructive criticism about physical descriptions. If I looked at ten women the chances of me getting the weight, height and bra size correct would be pretty much impossible. To be honest, I don't even know what my wife's bra size is. I agree that to use such descriptions is boring. I also agree with, "If the development of the story requires some of that information, give it as needed. — Otherwise, let the reader fill in the blanks in his imagination. When I come upon a story that relies on the character's "stats" — I too say goodby and leave it to those who who do like it.

IMO, the "constructive criticism" given in the OP's comment is much more useful to new / inexperienced authors than the "let them do it the way they want" comments. I fail to see any attempt by the OP to coerce anyone to write in a specified way — I see a very valid point being raised that probably has given some who've read it an Ah — Hah moment.

This isn't a complex topic being discussed. IMO, the reaction has been blown way off course into more of a personal attack.

The OP ended with; That's my own bias. I'm sure others have things that are story deal breakers and I'd be interested to hear some. Sooo, whatdaya got? < That's a question asking other authors if they have any style issues that turn them away from a story. It's meant to engage a conversation on possible things to avoid in the craft of writing.

My take; I'm disappointed in what happened in this thread.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I'm gonna support 'kinked' in the constructive criticism about physical descriptions. If I looked at ten women the chances of me getting the weight, height and bra size correct would be pretty much impossible. To be honest, I don't even know what my wife's bra size is. I agree that to use such descriptions is boring. I also agree with, "If the development of the story requires some of that information, give it as needed. — Otherwise, let the reader fill in the blanks in his imagination. When I come upon a story that relies on the character's "stats" — I too say goodby and leave it to those who who do like it.

IMO, the "constructive criticism" given in the OP's comment is much more useful to new / inexperienced authors than the "let them do it the way they want" comments. I fail to see any attempt by the OP to coerce anyone to write in a specified way — I see a very valid point being raised that probably has given some who've read it an Ah — Hah moment.

This isn't a complex topic being discussed. IMO, the reaction has been blown way off course into more of a personal attack.

The OP ended with; That's my own bias. I'm sure others have things that are story deal breakers and I'd be interested to hear some. Sooo, whatdaya got? < That's a question asking other authors if they have any style issues that turn them away from a story. It's meant to engage a conversation on possible things to avoid in the craft of writing.

My take; I'm disappointed in what happened in this thread.

The OP came back with: "And I truly hate the person who taught you all to use, "to each his own" to excuse yourselves from any attempt to improve."

As I EXPLAINED I've been accused of NOT providing such descriptive details. So, it's not an improvement dissing authors writing to those who WANT such descriptions.

The reaction comes from using the word HATE.

If you don't like a story, then try what we've ATTEMPTED to teach other ignorant trolls: "Stop reading it!"

 

[KeithD]

IMO, the "constructive criticism" given in the OP's comment is much more useful to new / inexperienced authors than the "let them do it the way they want" comments.

No, it's not. It's telling writers they have to write in limited ways. That's horseshit. There are people who legitimately think/visualize in terms of measurements--construction workers, engineers, mathematicians. 36D is a shortcut arousal image to "big" for some folks. That's legitimate for them. Telling them it can't be for them as either a writer or reader is horseshit and it's damaging guidance to new writers. The useful guidance to new writers is to tell them to experiment in writing in broad ways that, for erotica, are turn-ons for them and to settle in from there into reaching and serving their own audience. Others who don't like that writing style or content can jolly well mind their own business, find what they like to write and read, and leave others the hell alone, including not giving them instructions on a discussion board on what they should write.

The OP didn't give accepted "general feedback." The OP gave a limiting personal preference list--and has become increasingly arrogant in doing so. The very next time I'm writing a story just for the OP, I'll certainly take their individual preferences in mind. Anyone not doing that is not being told anything useful about what to write and whose fetishes to serve in doing so.

Such limiting guidance is horseshit.

 

[Lifestyle66]

No, it's not. ....

Such limiting guidance is horseshit.

I agree.

There are New York Times Best Selling authors whose books are written with very flat, 1-dimensional characters and very predictable plots.

Just because some self-proclaimed expert university professor claims "your writing fails" doesn't make them right. Just ask that university professor/self-proclaimed expert how well their books are selling and judge them on their ability to communicate their way.

I might say to someone: "Your attitudes as expressed greatly displeased me, and I believe you deliberately intended to offend me." OR I might say "Fuck you!

One of those methods is "Professor approved", and the other is better understood by more people.

 

[Voboy]

My take; I'm disappointed in what happened in this thread.

You see this differently than almost all the rest of us. That should tell you something, perhaps.

He "knows" the right way, and presumes to tell the rest of us. Then he asks for opinions, but shits all over the opinions he gets. How is any of that useful?

This topic of his? It gets brought up routinely. Almost all of us, generally, agree with him. He's not bringing anything new to the table here.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm gonna support 'kinked' in the constructive criticism about physical descriptions. If I looked at ten women the chances of me getting the weight, height and bra size correct would be pretty much impossible. To be honest, I don't even know what my wife's bra size is. I agree that to use such descriptions is boring. I also agree with, "If the development of the story requires some of that information, give it as needed. — Otherwise, let the reader fill in the blanks in his imagination. When I come upon a story that relies on the character's "stats" — I too say goodby and leave it to those who who do like it.

IMO, the "constructive criticism" given in the OP's comment is much more useful to new / inexperienced authors than the "let them do it the way they want" comments. I fail to see any attempt by the OP to coerce anyone to write in a specified way — I see a very valid point being raised that probably has given some who've read it an Ah — Hah moment.

This isn't a complex topic being discussed. IMO, the reaction has been blown way off course into more of a personal attack.

The OP ended with; That's my own bias. I'm sure others have things that are story deal breakers and I'd be interested to hear some. Sooo, whatdaya got? < That's a question asking other authors if they have any style issues that turn them away from a story. It's meant to engage a conversation on possible things to avoid in the craft of writing.

My take; I'm disappointed in what happened in this thread.

First, I agree on the stats thing as well, but as Burwad pointed out it harkens back to a lot of old porn stories and to me show the difference in porn v erotica. But for all of us that don't care for it there are just as many that do. The OP's first post was fine, but the attitude devolved from wanting conversation to telling us we don't want to improve as writers, but whatever, this is far from the first time we had a reader come here to tell us how we should be writing, won't be the last

 

[KeithD]

Well, no. Everyone else had let this go a day and a half ago. And then you couldn't. I'm pretty sure we'll all survive without your "help" from whatever on high you think you occupy. Will you actually let it go now?

 

[Biggalute]

I think the only time I've ever mentioned bra size in a story was when I wrote, 'her 34b boobs looked big on her small frame. I knew they were 34b because I sometimes did the laundry.'
This was to illustrate what a liberated, modern man I am, doing laundry and all, rather than the size of her tits.

 

[harmonicks]

And I truly hate the person who taught you all to use, "to each his own" to excuse yourselves from any attempt to improve.

Honestly for a writer on this site there's no way around it. Most stories get a bunch of entirely conflicting comments from different readers - the story was both too long and too short. The main female character was both too slutty to be believable, and yet didn't put out enough.

I personally believe that there are a few aspects of writing a story which are objective (getting basic grammar and spelling right, not having 4 pages of build-up lead to just 4 lines of sex before The End) but most other aspects of a story are entirely subjective and will depend on the preferences of each individual reader. What might be engaging storytelling and scene-setting for one reader is just a frustrating delay to the ultimate climax for another.

Ultimately writers should write how they want to write, especially given it takes significantly more time to write a story than it does for someone else to read it. If a writer can't be bothered putting effort into the setup of a story, that's their choice, and while you may rather they got so bored writing preamble that they never even bothered to finish and publish their story, there are plenty of other readers on here who really won't care.