Rudy or John/Hillary or Obama ???

[TheOlderGuy]

do you have an opinion?




come on. you know you do.





and you know someone will jump all over you for it.






so why not just up and out with it?








who do you relish in the White House come January 2009?

 

[rgraham666]

I don't know who will be in the White House.

But who ever it is has a lot of work to do.

The economy is bleeding one trillion dollars a year.

Its military can't win a war. A battle or campaign, yes. Wars, no. Unless you want to count the ability to turn an opponent's country into radioactive glass winning.

And the social consensus is falling apart. For too many people in the U.S. the only way to go is down.

As you can tell, I'm not optimistic.

 

[Darkniciad]

Rudy can potentially win a primary in the current feild, and at least stands a fighting chance with disgruntled democrats and moderates. He'll have a rough time with the base considering some of the moderate stances that give him that chance, however, much the same as the mid-terms. The Dems didn't win this election, the Reps lost it by ticking off the base one too many times.

McCain, sadly, has no hope in a primary barring a miracle. The hardline base that votes in primaries won't let him get the nod. If he did, by some quirk of fate, he would have to fight tooth and nail for the base. He speaks his mind too much, even when it doesn't toe the party line. Sheep don't like that.

Obama's aight, but a Freshman Senator? We don't have much of a barometer to judge him by, except his words. What are words from a politico? Give him another term, and we'll see whether he can survive the Washington power corruption.

Hillary... please... Three words: She's no Bill. She already polls badly, and the Reps haven't really opened up on her on a national level. Once the mud-slinging starts, she would be hard pressed to beat Newt, let alone McCain or Rudy. I honestly think the rest of the Dems keep her out there in front as a human sheild, intercepting all the slings and arrows while they get their real choice ready to roll quietly in the background.

The Dems would be best served to run a solid Governor, nobody on the current "hot" list. There are a couple Governors with potential, and it wouldn't take much to eliminate the Reps by helping along the hard-liners in the Republican party blast their best hopes. A Governor without several years of National level mud-slinging research could then easily take the White House. There are a few senators with potential as well ( Bayh for one )

The Reps could keep the White House with either McCain or Rudy, if they get behind them, and I don't see either as too bad a choice. I prefer McCain, but just by a bit. I honestly see both of them getting verbally assassinated by their own party during the primary, though.

Rudy or McCain could help draw the country back together. Obama has some of the same potential, at least from what we've seen of him thusfar, although he's pandering a bit toward the primary voters of late and hurting that. Of course, so are McCain and Rudy. Hillary would make things worse, far worse, unless she let Bill's people run the show once she got in office, and one of them had their hand up her butt working her mouth during press conferences. Even then, she's still no Bill.

I would piss myself laughing to see a McCain/Lieberman Independant ticket take the White House. The thuds of sheep in both parties defenestrating themselves would be like music to my ears. We could do well to have two people who think for themselves in the number one and two spots.

 

[JamesSD]

My top pick right now is John Edwards
Then Al Gore
Obama

Beyond that it's tough. I like McCain more than Rudy, but as a registered Democrat in California, my opinion on that hardly matters. If Hillary wins the Dem nomination I'll vote for her, more out of principle that we should have a woman President. Ridiculous as it would be, I'd be torn if Condi Rice ran. I think she's a puppet and a tool, but it would be hard for me NOT to vote for the first black woman as president.

(And yeah, I'm practicing affirmative action, but I figure I'm offsetting the racists and sexists of the world.)

 

[JamesSD]

Rudy can potentially win a primary in the current feild, and at least stands a fighting chance with disgruntled democrats and moderates. He'll have a rough time with the base considering some of the moderate stances that give him that chance, however, much the same as the mid-terms. The Dems didn't win this election, the Reps lost it by ticking off the base one too many times.

McCain, sadly, has no hope in a primary barring a miracle. The hardline base that votes in primaries won't let him get the nod. If he did, by some quirk of fate, he would have to fight tooth and nail for the base. He speaks his mind too much, even when it doesn't toe the party line. Sheep don't like that.

Obama's aight, but a Freshman Senator? We don't have much of a barometer to judge him by, except his words. What are words from a politico? Give him another term, and we'll see whether he can survive the Washington power corruption.

Hillary... please... Three words: She's no Bill. She already polls badly, and the Reps haven't really opened up on her on a national level. Once the mud-slinging starts, she would be hard pressed to beat Newt, let alone McCain or Rudy. I honestly think the rest of the Dems keep her out there in front as a human sheild, intercepting all the slings and arrows while they get their real choice ready to roll quietly in the background.

The Dems would be best served to run a solid Governor, nobody on the current "hot" list. There are a couple Governors with potential, and it wouldn't take much to eliminate the Reps by helping along the hard-liners in the Republican party blast their best hopes. A Governor without several years of National level mud-slinging research could then easily take the White House. There are a few senators with potential as well ( Bayh for one )

The Reps could keep the White House with either McCain or Rudy, if they get behind them, and I don't see either as too bad a choice. I prefer McCain, but just by a bit. I honestly see both of them getting verbally assassinated by their own party during the primary, though.

Rudy or McCain could help draw the country back together. Obama has some of the same potential, at least from what we've seen of him thusfar, although he's pandering a bit toward the primary voters of late and hurting that. Of course, so are McCain and Rudy. Hillary would make things worse, far worse, unless she let Bill's people run the show once she got in office, and one of them had their hand up her butt working her mouth during press conferences. Even then, she's still no Bill.

I would piss myself laughing to see a McCain/Lieberman Independant ticket take the White House. The thuds of sheep in both parties defenestrating themselves would be like music to my ears. We could do well to have two people who think for themselves in the number one and two spots.

Some good analysis here. I think McCain and Rudy have similar problems with the Republican base. Rudy is a very New York Republican, which could help with independants, but hurt with social conservatives. Of course, it's not like they're going to run out and vote for Hillary.

In the modern age I actually think a junior senator has a better shot than a senior senator. Look at how Karl Rove successfully twisted John Kerry's voting history on complex issues to make him look weak on defense. Having less of a voting record is a plus, as voters tend to trust what candidates say until they have reason not to. See George Bush in 2000... somehow, the son of a former president, about as connected to politics as possible managed to run as an "outsider". (Being a governor didn't hurt either)

A McCain/Lieberman ticket would be a Libertarian/Centrist paradise. Don't think it would happen, but it could be interesting.

 

[S-Des]

Rudy is further to the left (socially) than McCain, so I think he's actually in a tougher position. I'd like to see McCain vs Obama. To me, that's a no lose situation (since I like both to a point). Hillary is a nightmare as the Democratic nomination. Every decent review of her record as Senator has said that she doesn't take chances or make stands. It appears that she's trying to position herself politically, constantly. That plays right into the right-wing perception that she's untrustworthy. She will stir up the Republicans, who fear her more than Dems fear a hard-right candidate. A lot of Dems aren't fans of hers, so she would make it easier for the Republicans to maintain the White House.

My big worry is Gingrich securing the Republican nomination. I've never liked him, he's incredibly smarmy. He reminds me of a televangelist (and not in a good way). He is bright and politically savvy, so in a race against a weak Dem, he could win (despite having more personal baggage than Bill Clinton).

Obama makes me nervous because he is an unknown. Even though he's from here, we know very little about what he believes. He is a good candidate (from a speech making POV), and I think it would be huge for us to FINALLY have an African American (Hell, anyone who isn't a white male) as President, so I'd take a flyer on him.

McCain is my personal favorite. He's a war hero and someone who speaks his mind (and isn't afraid to tell his party to fuck off). I agree with him politically more than anyone else mentioned so far. I agree with Dark...I'd actually volunteer to campaign for a McCain/Lieberman Independant ticket. Maybe it would scare both parties into actually trying to do something other than screw us.

 

[Huckleman2000]

...He reminds me of a televangelist (and not in a good way)..,.

You mean there's a good way someone could remind you of a televangelist?

My dream ticket: Gore/Obama. Obama would get some experience and lend some charisma to the campaign; and Gore has already won a Presidential election plus two VPs, so he knows the ropes.

 

[S-Des]

You mean there's a good way someone could remind you of a televangelist?

My dream ticket: Gore/Obama. Obama would get some experience and lend some charisma to the campaign; and Gore has already won a Presidential election plus two VPs, so he knows the ropes.

Then again, maybe we could get Bob Dole to run again for the Republicans and have a Gore/Dole election. Not all the coffee in the world could keep us awake for that one. *yawn*

 

[Weird Harold]

who do you relish in the White House come January 2009?

As a registered independent in a state with closed primaries, who I would LIKE to see in the White House is irrelevant.

I can't begin to form an opinion on who to bet on -- or more likely against --until the starting field is set.

 

[Darkniciad]

In the modern age I actually think a junior senator has a better shot than a senior senator. Look at how Karl Rove successfully twisted John Kerry's voting history on complex issues to make him look weak on defense. Having less of a voting record is a plus, as voters tend to trust what candidates say until they have reason not to.

A McCain/Lieberman ticket would be a Libertarian/Centrist paradise. Don't think it would happen, but it could be interesting.

Obama wouldn't be difficult to take down, Cheney slaughtered Edwards in the VP debate on his inexperience, yet at the same time turned a single term's voting record against him as well. Unfortunately, race would also be a major problem for him in many states, including many of the battlegrounds. Giving Obama the nod is starting out behind, not a good choice for the Dems, who are already in trouble with their "revolution" in the congress. If they gridlock, they lose. If they go hard left, they lose.

Edwards still suffers from the inexperience problem, and he's carrying around the baggage of Kerry on his back. He would be starting the race from behind as well

Kerry must have been born with his foot in his mouth. The Dems would do well to throw him under the bus before he does any more damage. They could stand to push Teddy under the wheels too and give the whole state a makeover.

Condi won't run, at least not for many years.

Newt should be gift-wrapping the White House for the Dems. He has the potential to pull off a primary, because the primary voters like him. Take him out of that rabid group, however, and he's not well-liked at all. Regardless of his savvy, someone with solid speaking skills like Obama could actually pull the hat-trick against Newt. Of course, if the Dems make the same sort of stupid mistake and give Hillary, Kerry, etc. the nod, then it's anybody's game ( except all us poor saps stuck with whichever one of them wins )

Lieberman has already taken the first step with that (I). Control of the Senate rests entirely in his hands. By throwing him under the bus, the Dems have inadvertly given him tremendous power over them. McCain gets constantly railroaded, and maybe he's finally getting fed up with it. He's getting up there in years too, so if he truly wants the White House, perhaps that's his final shot. I know they both have surely heard the rumblings, because you hear them everywhere...

Newt + Hillary + McCain/Lieberman = broken-backed two party system. They would slaughter the Elephants and Donkeys in that scenario, provided all the grass-roots support that gets talked about materializes. Reaganesque sweep. I've seen some fairly big money talk about it in both Ohio and Florida, from people with high levels of political activism.

I'd end up flipping a coin in a McCain vs. Lieberman, and be happy with either outcome.

 

[TheOlderGuy]

when McCain decided to kiss Dubya's ass in 2004 i lost ALL respect for him.

Hillary i could live with, especially if she grew some balls.
(by the way, Dark) the Republicans have been slinging big time mud at her since 1992, so i don't think you have to worry about that.

Rudy? he may be the third party candidate, along with Joe.

Obama? i don't know that much about him. most people don't. and that's probably an asset, especially the lack of a senate voting record to exploit. no senator has been elected as President since JFK in 1960. doesn't happen often, for a reason. we prefer our Presidents to be outsiders, often governors, Reagan, Carter, Clinton, Bush43, and many before them.

 

[Darkniciad]

Hillary i could live with, especially if she grew some balls.
(by the way, Dark) the Republicans have been slinging big time mud at her since 1992, so i don;t think you have to worry aboput that.

But they're still scared spitless of her, so they keep right after her. Meanwhile, others are coming in under the radar. If that's actually part of the Dem strategy, it's bloody brilliant and working like a charm. As long as she even has the potential to run, she's going to be target #1.

Hillary bowing out early would be bad business for the Dems, because Darth Rove and the rest of the mud-slinger Sith would immediately turn their lightning on anyone else with potential.

 

[JamesSD]

But they're still scared spitless of her, so they keep right after her. Meanwhile, others are coming in under the radar. If that's actually part of the Dem strategy, it's bloody brilliant and working like a charm. As long as she even has the potential to run, she's going to be target #1.

Hillary bowing out early would be bad business for the Dems, because Darth Rove and the rest of the mud-slinger Sith would immediately turn their lightning on anyone else with potential.

I'd agree, although I'm not sure they're "scared spitless" as much as just hate the idea of powerful women, especially liberal ones.

Hillary certainly has been an effective lightning rod against the conservative talk radio and FOX news anchors. Just say "Future President Hillary Clinton" and their blood boils!

 

[R. Richard]

Hillary i could live with, especially if she grew some balls.
(by the way, Dark) the Republicans have been slinging big time mud at her since 1992, so i don't think you have to worry about that.

Before you [or anyone] considers Hillary for President, I would strongly suggest that you read "Unlimited Access: An FBI Agent Inside the Clinton White House." The book was written by an FBI agent with the assignment of protecting the President. Such FBI agents are normally dedicated and loyal.

 

[TheEarl]

Just out of interest - is an independent winning completely impossible. Someone mentioned McCain/Lieberman Independent as a genuine possibility and I'm curious as to how likely that is.

The Earl

 

[TheOlderGuy]

Just out of interest - is an independent winning completely impossible. Someone mentioned McCain/Lieberman Independent as a genuine possibility and I'm curious as to how likely that is.

The Earl

imho, a lot can happen in the next two years, but it seems to me that 2008 offers more than a casual chance for an independent candidate to catch fire.

 

[Alessia Brio]

Wise choice or not, from an "odds of winning" perspective, I want Obama. I like his views. I like his charisma. I like the fact that he has a diverse background & ethnicity. I like his level headedness.

 

[TheEarl]

Wise choice or not, from an "odds of winning" perspective, I want Obama. I like his views. I like his charisma. I like the fact that he has a diverse background & ethnicity. I like his level headedness.

Obama was actually talked up, in the British coverage of the last US election, as a potential presidential candidate. He seemed good enough, but I don't know anything about his politics, opinion on foreign policy, etc.

The Earl

 

[Liar]

do you have an opinion?

Not really, no.

 

[TheEarl]

An interesting thought.

The Earl

 

[JamesSD]

Just out of interest - is an independent winning completely impossible. Someone mentioned McCain/Lieberman Independent as a genuine possibility and I'm curious as to how likely that is.

The Earl

Falls int the "Historically unlikely, but..." category.

McCain is more popular with independants than his own party. The same is true of Lieberman. Both clearly have aspirations beyond Senator. Lieberman could easily be picked as a VP candidate again, and McCain isn't totally out of the question as the Rebuplican nominee. But, when writing "what if" scenarios, it's very possible to see them going the independant route if they decide to abandon their party and take one last shot at glory.

You see, that's the rub of the two party system in the US... once you run outside your party, it's hard to come back. In the case of Lieberman's senate race, the National party clearly took the stance of "whoever the voters choose is our guy". I'm not sure McCain could run as an independant and be welcomed back if he lost. Of course, if he won, it's all moot

This is a wacky question, but do former Supreme Court Justices ever run for President? Sandra Day O'Conner anyone? (I like her more than Hillary, less divisive... but Justices have very long extensive records on issues and are usually quite old when they retire from the bench.)

 

[persephoneate]

gore.

 

[TheOlderGuy]

Will John McCain pick Condi as his VP, in order to try to counter the Hilary/Obama ticket?

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I'm always afraid that someone will flash the red queen at McCain. Seriously, I do hear rumors that he's not very stable, and that the biased media aren't talking about it much until after he wins the nomination if he does, at which point it's all they'll talk about. There are some uglier rumors too that I won't repeat.

I've said it before, for pure drama and competitive excitement Rudy vs. Hillary would be the match of the century.

 

[Lady Regicide]

Obama. If Hillary get's the leadership I might have to shoot myself. Or vote republican. I'd rather not do either.