Royal Titles Question

[3113]

I know this varies from country to country--and also historical era to historical era, but I'll take any info or example of countries/historical eras that you can give me.

Obviously, the son/daughter of a King/Queen is a Prince/Princess. But how far down does it go from there? The British Queen's grandchildren (by her sons--Princes) are princes and princesses. Will their children be princes and princesses, too (her great grandchildren)? What if they had children (her great-great grandchildren)? Is it only the male line that confers this title on the children? And to what level down?

Again, I know there's been historical variants in this depending on country and time period. France was full of princes & princesses prior to the French Revolution. And Russia certainly had casual "princes" running around--none of these many prince/princesses were anywhere near being in line to inherit the throne, and the title didn't seem to mean much at all. I'm trying to get some idea, for a story, where and when such titles meant something and how they were conferred.

Any information much appreciated.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, you'll have to specify the country, I'm afraid. There is considerable variation in how they do it.

 

[Verdad]

This looks like a useful intro: http://www.heraldica.org/topics/odegard/titlefaq.htm

 

[oggbashan]

Once you get outside Europe, the titles become much less clear, and they are complex enough within Europe.

Although the link given by Verdad is useful, titles don't translate easily even within Europe, and then there are former Royal houses such as the Stuarts and Bourbons. Some of them still use titles that were extinguished hundreds of years ago.

The title 'Lord of the Manor' in England can be sold, even though it no longer has any significance.

In Scotland, being a landowner, of any land, carries the courtesy title 'Laird'. Some people will sell you a square foot/yard of Scottish soil so that you can call yourself a Laird. Others might call you a gullible fool.

 

[3113]

This looks like a useful intro: http://www.heraldica.org/topics/odegard/titlefaq.htm

Very nice! Thank you!

 

[3113]

Yes, you'll have to specify the country, I'm afraid. There is considerable variation in how they do it.

Okay. Let's try:

British
French
Scandinavian
Russian

 

[3113]

Once you get outside Europe, the titles become much less clear, and they are complex enough within Europe.

Although the link given by Verdad is useful, titles don't translate easily even within Europe, and then there are former Royal houses such as the Stuarts and Bourbons. Some of them still use titles that were extinguished hundreds of years ago.

The title 'Lord of the Manor' in England can be sold, even though it no longer has any significance.

In Scotland, being a landowner, of any land, carries the courtesy title 'Laird'. Some people will sell you a square foot/yard of Scottish soil so that you can call yourself a Laird. Others might call you a gullible fool.

All very interesting, but all I'm concerned with are "prince/princess."

 

[R. Richard]

The Reigning Prince or Princess of Monaco is the sovereign monarch and head of state of the Principality of Monaco. All Princes or Princesses thus far have taken the name of the House of Grimaldi, but have belonged to various other houses in male line. The current Prince is Albert II.

There never has been a King or Queen of Monaco. Monaco was established when Francois Grimaldi manged to get inside the gates, disguised as a monk, and then he killed enough of the gatekeepers that his Guelph compatriots were able to invade and take the place. Francois was my kinda guy!

 

[sr71plt]

Okay. Let's try:

British
French
Scandinavian
Russian

Ah, gee, I was all poised to unspin Thai royalty (MR, Khunchai, Khun, etc.).

 

[TE999]

Check out these articles on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess

 

[3113]

Ah, gee, I was all poised to unspin Thai royalty (MR, Khunchai, Khun, etc.).

Ooo. Thai. I hadn't thought of that (did think of Japanese, Chinese, Korean...but Thai sounds far more interesting). Okay, I'm sold! I'll take that category, too.

 

[sr71plt]

Ooo. Thai. I hadn't thought of that (did think of Japanese, Chinese, Korean...but Thai sounds far more interesting). Okay, I'm sold! I'll take that category, too.

You'll be sorry you showed interest. Get a load of this rundown:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_royal_and_noble_titles

Since King Chulalongkorn (of Anna and the King of Siam fame) had 97 children with multiple wives, you can guess how complicated the titles have become in Thailand.

I had to bone up on them recently for the current Shabbu book Sabb and I are working on.

 

[mynameisben]

I know this varies from country to country--and also historical era to historical era, but I'll take any info or example of countries/historical eras that you can give me.

Obviously, the son/daughter of a King/Queen is a Prince/Princess. But how far down does it go from there?

I dunno. But I showed off my Prince Albert at last year's royal wedding, and Princess Pippa went all the way down.

 

[SweetMaj]

I dunno. But I showed off my Prince Albert at last year's royal wedding, and Princess Pippa went all the way down.

You're crackin' me up, Ben.

 

[oggbashan]

As King Og, I didn't allow any princes.

If I had been succeeded, it would have been by the person capable of dealing with my extensive collection of wives and concubines (and capable of running the kingdom which would have been the easier task).

 

[R. Richard]

In Scotland, being a landowner, of any land, carries the courtesy title 'Laird'. Some people will sell you a square foot/yard of Scottish soil so that you can call yourself a Laird. Others might call you a gullible fool.

Some years back, a company had a promotion where they would deed one square inch of land to customers. A few years later, there was a need to run a road through the subdivided property. It took over a year of legal procedings, before the road could be built. I sibmitted a bid to do some professional counseling of the subdividers. The real gullible fools refused to even consider action against those who had caused the harm, via their stupidity.

 

[oggbashan]

Some years back, a company had a promotion where they would deed one square inch of land to customers. A few years later, there was a need to run a road through the subdivided property. It took over a year of legal procedings, before the road could be built. I sibmitted a bid to do some professional counseling of the subdividers. The real gullible fools refused to even consider action against those who had caused the harm, via their stupidity.

We had/have a similar problem with some marshland. A company sold 1/4 acre plots for 'leisure use'. You could camp on it for 28 days in a year. The local council wanted to carry out some sea defence works and use some of the marshland as a flood relief zone where excess water could be diverted.

It has taken years and thousands of pounds of legal costs to get permission from the multiple landowners, most of whom never visited their land - partly because it was under water for 8-10 months of the year.

Objectors to some UK road schemes have tried a similar tactic, selling metre square plots to hundreds of owners. The UK government changed compulsory purchase rules, allowing the roads to proceed and placing the compensation cost (at agricultural land rates) in a trust fund if the owner couldn't be identified.